I have to go to my aunt's wedding in August, and I'm not out to anyone outside my house yet. She's already given me an okay to wear guys clothes (apparently she does that a lot too, so she doesn't care), and I will be binding because I don't think I can be near people that long without doing so. Anyway, since my aunt is getting married to a woman, there are probably going to be a lot of other lesbians there. Any advice so I'm not mistaken for one? Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a lesbian, but I'm a guy. Plus, I'm not attracted to girls. Anyway. Advice?
Edit: I also don't want to make a big spectacle or out myself, since my dad might start a fistfight if that happened. It's my aunt's big day and I don't want to ruin it some how.
maybe just no bright colors :) everyone is going to be looking at her :) you can wreck the after party ;D
You haven't indicated either way but if you are pre-T the sad truth is that you have a high chance of being mistaken for a butch lesbian in this particular scenario. The best way to react to anyone referring to you in that way is mild shock and just saying "Oh no! I'm a dude! Haha!" That way you give enough of a shock while also giving the person a little bit of an out to laugh with you. Also shows a lack of homophobia. Even in a situation like that at a gay wedding, it could be seen as really offensive if you were disgusted at being though of as female. This is my 2 cents and others can argue the other way, it's just that personally I'd play the mild shock over major shock and disgust card.
I think the best way to play it is KISS (keep it simple stupid). A plain outfit. If you're wearing a shirt and tie, keep it simple. Light coloured shirt, but not white and simple tie. Don't go too fancy. I'd advise against dark shirt and light tie for example or collars over regular size. If not wearing a tie, a darker shirt would be okay, however. I also wouldn't wear a vest/waistcoat in this particular instance. Also, depending on when this is and your current hairstyle, don't go super short; buzz cuts can scream lesbian.
All these things aren't necessarily wrong, it's just that the simpler you look, the less you look like you're trying too hard and the more you'll blend in as a dude.
That's my 2 cents at least.
I notice that if you really don't want to be noticed, kinda be serious, cranky or depressed looking and dresswise(ie.I do it), is to dress in gray tones(ie.like smoggy or concrete gray color, lol), figure everybody kinda hates dull grays. I use it at work, and it seems to work and rough tough hoods works like a charm, as I pass through them. :P
Lucia,
It's pretty unavoidable in my experience... I didn't believe it until I went to a memorial for one of my ex-teachers who died recently on Sunday, and there was a ridiculously high number of lesbians there. Probably something to do with the fact that she was gay, and the school used to be girls only, I don't really know. But even though 95% of the time I pass, there I didn't pass at all, even from behind. And these were pupils from twenty years or so ago that I'd never met before.
I'm not trying to put a dampener on things, but that's just the way it seems to go. Go expecting not to pass, and if you do, you'll be pleasantly surprised. And wear a tie neatly, I rarely see women, butch or otherwise, wearing ties. If they do it's to be 'cool' and they're tied short and with big knots.
Quote from: AlexanderC on July 04, 2013, 08:01:52 AM
I'm not trying to put a dampener on things, but that's just the way it seems to go. Go expecting not to pass, and if you do, you'll be pleasantly surprised. And wear a tie neatly, I rarely see women, butch or otherwise, wearing ties. If they do it's to be 'cool' and they're tied short and with big knots.
This. Unfortunately, there's a fine line between the butch lesbian style and transmen, and it's impossible for someone to tell the difference just by looking at someone. In an environment that's going to be full of lesbians, people are just going to be left to assume that you're one as well. I wish I could offer you some advice, but all I can say is good luck man.
Quote from: AlexanderC on July 04, 2013, 08:01:52 AM
It's pretty unavoidable in my experience... I didn't believe it until I went to a memorial for one of my ex-teachers who died recently on Sunday, and there was a ridiculously high number of lesbians there. Probably something to do with the fact that she was gay, and the school used to be girls only, I don't really know. But even though 95% of the time I pass, there I didn't pass at all, even from behind. And these were pupils from twenty years or so ago that I'd never met before.
I'm not trying to put a dampener on things, but that's just the way it seems to go. Go expecting not to pass, and if you do, you'll be pleasantly surprised. And wear a tie neatly, I rarely see women, butch or otherwise, wearing ties. If they do it's to be 'cool' and they're tied short and with big knots.
I see... And I think it's funny you mention ties, as both of the brides will be wearing one :P
Quote from: SonadoraXVX on July 04, 2013, 07:36:18 AM
I notice that if you really don't want to be noticed, kinda be serious, cranky or depressed looking and dresswise(ie.I do it), is to dress in gray tones(ie.like smoggy or concrete gray color, lol), figure everybody kinda hates dull grays. I use it at work, and it seems to work and rough tough hoods works like a charm, as I pass through them. :P
Lucia,
Grey.. That might work. Thanks :)
Thanks! This is all really useful!
A wedding is one of those 'pick your battles' things. Especially if you're not very far into transition (if you've been living as a man and passing 100% for years it may be different). Personally, I'd just wear what I was going to wear, accept I might be misgendered and ignore if it does happen. While Jack brings up a good strategy to handle it, I wouldn't even correct anyone unless you pass so well that it would seem like a complete fluke. If it's pretty obvious you're female bodied/AFAB (even just in the presence of other seemingly butch women), any correction is just going to draw attention. Especially considering the fact you're not 'out'. If you're not passing as male, correcting people will probably out you as ftm. especially in lesbian circles.
But that's just me. YMMV depending on all sorts of things like how well you know these people, whether you're going to have to be around them often, etc. But even in a situation where someone initially misgenders you, you can always correct the situation later if you end up having to see them again.
I think if I didn't want to read as lesbian at this event, I would take a male friend as a date. Since passing may not be possible in this context, maybe this other part of your identity, preferring men, could be made more obvious and be some comfort.
Quote from: Reedling on July 05, 2013, 01:21:43 PM
I think if I didn't want to read as lesbian at this event, I would take a male friend as a date. Since passing may not be possible in this context, maybe this other part of your identity, preferring men, could be made more obvious and be some comfort.
I think that would really only work if I had friends. And I don't prefer males, I'm asexual, but thanks for the advice.
Quote from: Fitter Admin on July 05, 2013, 01:09:02 PM
A wedding is one of those 'pick your battles' things. Especially if you're not very far into transition (if you've been living as a man and passing 100% for years it may be different). Personally, I'd just wear what I was going to wear, accept I might be misgendered and ignore if it does happen. While Jack brings up a good strategy to handle it, I wouldn't even correct anyone unless you pass so well that it would seem like a complete fluke. If it's pretty obvious you're female bodied/AFAB (even just in the presence of other seemingly butch women), any correction is just going to draw attention. Especially considering the fact you're not 'out'. If you're not passing as male, correcting people will probably out you as ftm. especially in lesbian circles.
But that's just me. YMMV depending on all sorts of things like how well you know these people, whether you're going to have to be around them often, etc. But even in a situation where someone initially misgenders you, you can always correct the situation later if you end up having to see them again.
I think my biggest thing would be the use of my birth name. I know I look like a chick, and I'm whatever about that, but I really hate my birth name.
Quote from: Ansley Ender on July 05, 2013, 01:36:00 PM
I think my biggest thing would be the use of my birth name. I know I look like a chick, and I'm whatever about that, but I really hate my birth name.
Introduce yourself first then. Be the one to shake people's hands when they come up to you and introduce yourself as whatever you like. It's not about you, they're their to cry over the brides and do whatever else people do at weddings (all I saw anyone ever do was cry though), you could introduce yourself as Barack Obama and people probably wouldn't care too much. If you're worried about drawing attention to yourself using a male name when you might not be passing then try and shorten it to something gender neutral or an initial or something.
^ This. Do you have a nickname you're comfortable with? Just offer that even if someone else introduces you as your birth name first.
@AlexanderC & Fitter Admin
That'd probably work. I don't suppose you have advice on when they talk to one of my relatives after that and get the 'who the f is that?' response?
I've had some experience with the "avoiding being birth-name'd around people I'm not out to" thing. Not from weddings and such, necessarily, but I used to tutor a family friend's kid who absolutely could not know I was a guy (alas), so I made a compromise with my family: I would let her use girl pronouns for me, but I was not going to use my birth name. So I told the kid (more-or-less honestly) that I don't like my name, so I go by a nickname (Crow). Lots of people don't like their birth names, so people most likely won't bat an eye if you ask them to call you by a gender neutral nickname or an initial or something.
I don't know how out/not-out you are to your immediate family, but it might behoove you to brief your parents ahead of time with something like "Hey, my friends have been calling me [insert nickname here], lately. Do you mind if I introduce myself as that at the wedding?"
Quote from: Ansley Ender on July 04, 2013, 01:22:20 AM
I have to go to my aunt's wedding in August, and I'm not out to anyone outside my house yet. She's already given me an okay to wear guys clothes (apparently she does that a lot too, so she doesn't care), and I will be binding because I don't think I can be near people that long without doing so. Anyway, since my aunt is getting married to a woman, there are probably going to be a lot of other lesbians there. Any advice so I'm not mistaken for one? Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a lesbian, but I'm a guy. Plus, I'm not attracted to girls. Anyway. Advice?
Edit: I also don't want to make a big spectacle or out myself, since my dad might start a fistfight if that happened. It's my aunt's big day and I don't want to ruin it some how.
Family wedding hey.....and with the folks there. Add in a risk of a violent outburst.
The balance between subordinating the self for the sake of others--blending--and being what one is.
It's your aunt who matters, and she understands and wants you to be comfortable. She sounds like the aunt who's got the kind of metal of mind to appreciate that diversity adds depth to people's lives. She sounds like she must be no stranger to courage by nature of her wedding.
About other same-sex attracted women present, I wouldn't be too concerned. I'm sure people will mingle, chat, and merrymake without incident in that regard, and respect any personal boundary you assert. I imagine that attending to civilities, manners, and directing attention to the married couple will provide many opportunities to refocus attention for any awkward moment in a conversation.
About your dad. I am cautious to offer advice. I imagine that his sister, (the bride? or is he an inlaw) will have a restraining effect upon him, though I am only guessing. I don't know your family dynamics.
Can you say a little more about who gets on with who, what sets whoever off, and any grudges brought to the day?
Quote from: stavraki on July 06, 2013, 07:46:07 AM
Family wedding hey.....and with the folks there. Add in a risk of a violent outburst.
The balance between subordinating the self for the sake of others--blending--and being what one is.
It's your aunt who matters, and she understands and wants you to be comfortable. She sounds like the aunt who's got the kind of metal of mind to appreciate that diversity adds depth to people's lives. She sounds like she must be no stranger to courage by nature of her wedding.
About other same-sex attracted women present, I wouldn't be too concerned. I'm sure people will mingle, chat, and merrymake without incident in that regard, and respect any personal boundary you assert. I imagine that attending to civilities, manners, and directing attention to the married couple will provide many opportunities to refocus attention for any awkward moment in a conversation.
About your dad. I am cautious to offer advice. I imagine that his sister, (the bride? or is he an inlaw) will have a restraining effect upon him, though I am only guessing. I don't know your family dynamics.
Can you say a little more about who gets on with who, what sets whoever off, and any grudges brought to the day?
It's my mom's sister. My dad is okay with lesbians, because he likes watching girls with huge tits make out, but he's kind of a bigot with everything else. Fortuanetly (or unfortunately, depending on how it's looked at) the main trouble causers (who invited themselves) won't be their due to emergency health issues. I don't know about the other group, but for my aunt's side of the family, everyone get along except my dad. Well, he can get along, he just chooses not to participate.
The whole wedding may turn out to be no big thing, but I prefer to plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Quote from: Ansley Ender on July 06, 2013, 12:19:36 PM
It's my mom's sister. My dad is okay with lesbians, because he likes watching girls with huge tits make out,
Oh, that old chestnut. Oh 'goody' *wry smile* - not at all sure that same-sex attracted women want a straight guy to participate -- mind boggles doesn't it......
Quotebut he's kind of a bigot with everything else. Fortuanetly (or unfortunately, depending on how it's looked at) the main trouble causers (who invited themselves) won't be their due to emergency health issues. I don't know about the other group, but for my aunt's side of the family, everyone get along except my dad. Well, he can get along, he just chooses not to participate.
The whole wedding may turn out to be no big thing, but I prefer to plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Okay, so, we got: one faction, the gate crashers who nobody likes won't be there, and a question mark about another faction, and on the aunt's side (mum's sister), they are close-knit and your dad's the outcast. And he's a bit of a hot headed bigot....
In this situation, he's outnumbered, but also excluded (and triggering rejection splits behaviour into two big routes: hyper-disengagement (withdrawal, quietly, in hurt embarrassment) or hyper-engagement (confront, force an issue, try to dominate the group and 'make' them behaviours).
Though--
it's a wedding, and your aunt's a powerful force, and she'll probably deal with him and knows how he works, I'd imagine, by now. Gut instinct: follow your aunt's lead. She's already 'shepherded' you (dress as you want, she said) and extended her girdle of protection to keep you well. I believe she really respects you--she's same-sex attracted with an amazingly strong child of her sister. She will see your courage in being who you are....
What colours and style of clothes do you like--? Presentation, combination of styles and forms of clothing to radiate your inner strength. Conservative wedding dress or semi-casual? All these things matter--colour of the brides' clothes. Non-traditional colours?
Quote from: stavraki on July 06, 2013, 08:51:59 PM
What colours and style of clothes do you like--? Presentation, combination of styles and forms of clothing to radiate your inner strength. Conservative wedding dress or semi-casual? All these things matter--colour of the brides' clothes. Non-traditional colours?
From what I recall, the dress code is "well be at a country club; they'll probably want you to wear shoes. And pants"
The brides are wearing button up shirts and my aunt is wearing a tie and waistcoat, I'm not positive about her bride. Their colors are silver, purple, and black, if I remember correctly.
I'll probably be wearing black cargoes, a grey button up shirt, my ravenclaw tie, and a cardigan. I'm aiming for 'a thoroughly depressing Mr. Rogers" kind of look, to avoid unwanted socializing.
Quote from: Ansley Ender on July 07, 2013, 12:26:08 AM
From what I recall, the dress code is "well be at a country club; they'll probably want you to wear shoes. And pants"
The brides are wearing button up shirts and my aunt is wearing a tie and waistcoat, I'm not positive about her bride. Their colors are silver, purple, and black, if I remember correctly.
I'll probably be wearing black cargoes, a grey button up shirt, my ravenclaw tie, and a cardigan. I'm aiming for 'a thoroughly depressing Mr. Rogers" kind of look, to avoid unwanted socializing.
well--the aunt and partner have set the tone - same sex attracted couple, not traditional 'wedding dress', but 'beyond gender roles' and so, you're actually going to fit in by following suit (pardon the pun :) ) - and - love your idea of dress ! can't go wrong. You'll be a hit. And sound like fun! Let us know how you go :)
So what I see is
wear grey
act natural
give them a nickname
and make sure my mom keeps a tight rein on my dad
Thanks for all the advice! I'll let you know how it all went (well, next month, after it happens, when none of you will remember this topic :P )
Quote from: Ansley Ender on July 07, 2013, 02:28:42 AM
So what I see is
wear grey
act natural
give them a nickname
and make sure my mom keeps a tight rein on my dad
Thanks for all the advice! I'll let you know how it all went (well, next month, after it happens, when none of you will remember this topic :P )
:) we'll be here - kick start the topic....:) I love resurrecting topics.....I'll be looking out...
cheers
stav