My journey to this point has been long and arduous. But some of the wonderful friends I have made here at Susan's have made it bearable. You know who you are, and to you I say THANKS!
Another thing I have appreciated about Susan's has been the openness to everybody, wherever in the process they are. The willingness to share and to be "big sisters" has been wonderful.
Those things being said, it seems that recently I have been knocked off my pedestal by those who are farther along than I. So tonight I just feel a little need vent. It really hurts to hear things like "you haven't even transitioned." Or "how could you understand anything about..." Or even "how could you say...?" or "you can't possibly appreciate..."
I have been very open about what I am going through, perhaps too open. For that I apologize. And I have done my best to be a support to others who I thought could use a friend. And I know it is wrong to automatically feel that I have a right to be treated the same way in return. But to those of you who have made the wonderful step of transitioning, please do know that there are some of us who have to take a lot of time dues to circumstances beyond our control. I will not enumerate, as I have done that elsewhere. And I know that some would disagree. But to be caught in the middle is, at times, sheer hell. Scoff if you want, but that is where some of us truly are.
There is so much discrimination and unfairness in the world. Thankfully, I do not see it often here. But when it does happen, it is worse than when it happens at the hands of bigots. That is to be expected. While I realize that we are all human with our own faults and problems, I truly believe (and try my best to model) that we need to be in community with one another. Like it or not, the wellbeing of one of us greatly affects the wellbeing of us all. We must not shoot our wounded. We don't have to all be close friends, but we do hold the TS community up to ridicule if we look with scorn at others who do not sit high on our own concocted system of stratification. We cannot afford to do so at such a crucial time in this world.
So I simply ask that we take a sane and decent approach to each other. We will not always agree. So be it. That makes life exciting. And most of us, if we are honest, would admit that our own views are constantly evolving. We are learning, striving, grappling together. We simply must take time for one another, recognize and honor the struggle each of us has before us, and affirm the variety of human experiences that make up this brutal and wonderful world of transgendered persons. Before we write, think! Do we simply wish to show how superior we are? If so please take a step back and rephrase what we have learned so that it will be heard, rather than putting people on the defensive. Yes, the truth sometimes hurts. And sometimes it must be told. But it never needs to be said in an an arrogant way, and never needs to be designed just to tear down. I hope we can strive to build up instead. Please!
Well, sorry to ramble, but these things are so very heavy on my heart tonight that I really felt I needed to share them.
Peace, everyone. You will be in my thoughts and prayers.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
In my experience, you can only learn from persons who are at the same level of transition or further along than you are. Most of the time, it is a challenge though since their experiences are far different from ours and thus, its difficult to form a common bond. Its like when youre learning to play a new instrument. Other pupils will be able to share only what they can or want to share; the rest you will have to learn yourself as you progress towards your goals.
Maintaining a cold heart helps sometimes (in the case of those who are trying to learn); I think most of us have gone through the same experiences at some point. But there will always be someone who desires to help you and guide you through the obstacles of this journey. Find those people, start from scratch and move along with them.
We are all different and have different journeys to follow. We all should be accepted for who we are and help each other in their journey.
Alice
Don't apologise, or at least not for these things. Reading about your experience has been at various times educational, comforting, and even inspiring, and you are a great support to us kids (says someone who's only a year or two younger than you :) ). Thank you -- and that applies to the current 'ramble' as well.
If you have been knocked off your pedestal, please climb back. Standing up there proudly reapplying lipstick suits you far better than lying face down in a puddle at the foot of the marble column. ;)
Nfr
As I was going through my own gender journey, i ran into a lot of what you are talking about as far the people putting you down for not being as far along as them. after actually going through certain things I can why they say those things. I even had a period of being the same way. I have since outgrown that and have a little more openness and sympathy for those going through what I already have.
You are going to run into people that have a "holier than thou" perspective towards cross-dressers and early transitioners. The best advice I can give on that is to ignore them. Hopefully some day they grow past their insecurities and become more beneficial to others.
Quote from: Kristi on June 11, 2007, 12:12:07 AMThere is so much discrimination and unfairness in the world. Thankfully, I do not see it often here. But when it does happen, it is worse than when it happens at the hands of bigots.
Keep in mind transition isn't designed to change a bigot. It's a shame the community has bigots but take them with the same grain of salt you would take a bigot outside the community.
Awl heck Kristi, you KNOW you're my hero! I hope I've finally earned that "transitioned" label at last, but I don't consider myself to be anywhere near your level of confidence and acceptance! You're out and about in the world, confident and totally female when you're out there, and I'm... well, scared, timid, terrified to meet new people. So I don't think labels or even "transitioining" are good indicators of progress or self-acceptance. We all have our battles to fight, from CDers to androgynes to non-transitioned TSs to post-ops. I don't think the measure is so much what someone has DONE as how much they've accepted who they are.
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on June 11, 2007, 12:33:15 PM
I don't think the measure is so much what someone has DONE as how much they've accepted who they are.
~Kate~
BINGO!!!
Kristi, don't let those with a problem get you down. Don't apologize for being you. I find your posts interesting and thought provoking, even if I am further along the transitional path. People who have to knock others down are simply too insecure about themselves without denying other peoples realities.
Quote from: Kristi on June 11, 2007, 12:12:07 AM
So I simply ask that we take a sane and decent approach to each other. We will not always agree. So be it. That makes life exciting. And most of us, if we are honest, would admit that our own views are constantly evolving. We are learning, striving, grappling together. We simply must take time for one another, recognize and honor the struggle each of us has before us, and affirm the variety of human experiences that make up this brutal and wonderful world of transgendered persons.
Yes! :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:
Quote from: Kristi on June 11, 2007, 12:12:07 AM
Do we simply wish to show how superior we are?
That seems to be the mission of some... :(
Quote from: Kristi on June 11, 2007, 12:12:07 AM
I hope we can strive to build up instead. Please!
Given the amount of depression and struggle on this board, we could all use some of this.
Kristi, just keep being you. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.
Hugs,
:icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_hug:
Rhonda
Feeling a little less equal Kristi?
I shouldn't worry about it much. You are held in highest regard by most here. Consider the source from those who may belittle you. They are juvenile in their perspective.
And to them, I say na-na na na-na!
;)
Cindi
Hugs Kristi,
Lol Cindi.
It doesn't matter how far along anyone is, there is always room to learn from others even those less far along then oneself. I'm post-op yet I'm sure that there are pre-ops here that could come up with a valid answer were I asking questions. It's all relative sure chances are that some due to having experienced the journey are going to be better able to answer some questions and give advice along those lines but it doesn't invalidate others who are not as far along the way.
Rashelle
Quote from: Rashelle on June 11, 2007, 02:44:19 PM
It doesn't matter how far along anyone is, there is always room to learn from others even those less far along then oneself.
Bingo. This is so very true.
Cindi
Kristi,
I've been part of the transgender community since 1993, both in real life interactions, and more recently, the internet. During that time I've occasionally met some people who acted as though they were higher up on the food chain than others not as far along in the process, and met others who didn't care what you were; gay, straight, transgender, TS, preop, post op, genderqueer, drag queen, none of the above, whatever... as long as you were a decent person. Life is short, I don't choose to associate with people who give me tsuris (a yiddish expression, loosely translates as give me grief). I'm glad you're here sister!
zythyra
I wanted to write something the other day, but couldn't figure out the words for it. Stupidly I just went away without replying at all. When the least I could do is echo the sentiment that your presence here on the board is a treasure, Kristi. :)
Kristi,
You have such a kind, gentle, caring spirit there will be people here as well as in the world who will hurt you. Why? I really don't know. Maybe they are just jealous of others that seem popular. Or maybe they have been hurt so bad that the only way they know to respond is by acting superior. And there defense mechanize is to put people down before they can be hurt. To push people away so that they can't see there weakness.
Than there are few people like you Kristi who no-matter what kind of struggles they are going through also feel for others and try to help. Even when its not just inconvenient or could be a danger and cause more pain in there own journey.
I have tried to help other here at Susan's but to actually go out and meet someone you that is new at Susan's. To actually take the risk that this person could be a pervert or worst. Oh my I don't have that courage or should I say my compassion does not drive me to that extent.
I'm so sorry that you are hurting. :'( That others have made this journey harder for you. I could get really mad at the person or people who have hurt you but I know it's not your way so I will try to be compassionate like you have show me Kristi.
What I mean Kristi is even though I have a few year on you both physically and in this TS struggle I look up to you . You have called me big sis from almost the first week you joined Susan's. I am honored but don't really deserve that title. You are one of the hero's here at Susan's. In fact I am honor and humbled to be called your friend.
Jillieann
You seem to be such a lovely person Kristi, truly generous of heart, open and honest, and I for one am glad there are people like you in the world. I can see no valid reason why anyone would want to make you feel bad.
I think that very often people who critisize others are really only highlighting their own frailties and the fact that they themselves still have a lot of unanswered questions. Attack as the best form of defence? Perhaps...
MVER XXX
Good post. :)
This has been going on for quite a long time. When I first got into the community and started transition the terms primary and secondary were used heavily. Many of those who identified as primary TS (each set of people had their own guidelines as to what that meant) did not associate a lot with those labeled as being secondary. I remember an argument breaking out on whether I could join a mailing list because it was mostly those who considered themselves primary. My crime? I had been married.
After I untransitioned, I got that I was not TS because:
I untransitioned
I enjoyed "boy" stuff like shooting and martial arts
and a few others that made absolutely no sense at all
Some people have a need to place labels on everything. Others do not. Others really do not care one way or another.
It's up to the person to decide who they are and find the path that has to be traveled upon. We can help, hinder, or ignore someone on that path based on a variety of items. For each person it is different just as we are all different.
Embrace the fact that we are not all the same. That we do not all have the same needs, wants, or desires. That is because we are individuals who can and do stand on their own for the most part.
Kristi, you have done a fine job here and I am thankful that you not only contribute to this site with your posts but also because you help me in the running of the News section of the forums. Just as it is on the other areas of this site, every little bit helps and you have helped a great deal.
LIT
Here's how I see it: We are all people. This alone should entitle us to the same basic respect. Sure, you may have had your genitals surgically altered already or you may have had incredible feminizing surgery. So what? You are still a person just like you were before. I have seen many people look up to *me* in awe as well as many post-ops and really, we are just people too. Some of us may have more transitional related experiences, but that doesn't make me or anyone else better. I basically see myself as a woman whom everyone around me does too. I still have the same brain, same internal organs, etc. I'm still the same person I was beforehand--I'm just percieved differently.
Now listen up. We are on our own personal journeys. We will all wish we had some of the advantages that others have. When I started out, I had such a bad view of myself and was jealous of so many othrs before me. I have been fortunate in areas such as breast development, discovering my skeleton is female, having excellent hair removal results, ending up with an excellent job and coworkers, being in some good relationships, and great skin and hair. However, there are areas of my life that I'm sure others would not want, such as going through a divorce, an entire biological family that won't even see me, other medical problems such as ADD and depression, financial problems, kids having difficulties with my transition, etc. The point is, we all have our list of positives and negatives and many of us will only share our positives. Still, they don't make one person better than another.
The funny thing is, many of us look up to cisgendered people who have absolutely no intentions of ever going through a transition, yet we never put those people down as anything less than ourselves. Why should it be any different for somebody who is involved in the community?
Kristi, your journey involves going out and discovering yourself through experience as a woman. That is extremely similar to how I started out as well. I wish you luck and to continue going forward with your journey of self discovery wherever it may take you.
I think that it is very sad when we can't show a little common respect for each other. We have enough to deal with the rest of the world. We should be nice to each other here.
S
QuoteWhy Are Some More Equal Than Others?
that's just how life is. everywhere is the same damn thing. tsk tsk tsk
Hi Kristi,
I find you to be uplifting and upbeat. I believe you have a great presence here.
I'm sorry that something brought you down. That's happened to me a very few times. Most of my experience here is fun or highly educational. When I felt bad, I stayed away for a few days, then when I returned, I found everything great again.
I don't know what specifically brought about your feeling hurt, but I'm sure you'll get to feeling good and confident again. I think you have a great story to tell and are a real asset to the community.
Stay well. Be lovely,
We are all hugging you.
Love,
Rebecca
Kristi, as beautiful as you are, I would chalk all that up to jealousy on their part and stop worrying about what they think....or me for that matter if I was one of them.
Ive seen MTF TS that have been on HRT for 5 years and don't look 1/4th as beautiful as you do with no HRT. Doesnt make you less of a woman, I think it would make you more because of the natural beauty you exert from within. It splashes your face and delicate features like the sun on a petal of a flower. You are all things feminine, more so than many others and I think many strive to be what you are. So fret not, get back up on your pedastle because I will curtsey to you.
Hi everyone.
And first, let me say thanks for some wonderful things you said about me. I feel a little bad about that. My intent was not just a "Let's feel sorry for Kristi" post. Sorry if it came across that way. But I hope that those who read it thought about what it said. There are bullies and snobs everywhere. Even in a community that is supposed to be supporting one another. But I am back in town and to the computer, and so humbled by what you wrote. I did need a break. It was good to see that most of the people who responded gave it serious thought. Thanks so much!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
I just came across this thread; I might have marked it as read somehow. Anyway Kristi, I have to echo most of the words expressed here. You've been a ray of light for many of us, constantly PM'ing us, making us feel loved, always bringing a smile to our faces with your jokes and prayers in those moments when sadness was overwhelming.
I personally value your friendship very much and I thank you for all the wonderful things you've done to keep me going in those not-so-happy days. I can't imagine anyone here being mean to you, but if that's the case, all I have to say is that they don't know you the way we do. If somehow, I have unknowingly posted something that has upset you, I apologize. You and I both know that regardless of our points of view, whatever they may be, our friendship surpasses words. So, cheer up my friend :). I perfectly understand that sometimes we need a break. I have taken a few myself in the past! ;)
Keep smiling Kristi, this world needs you smiling...
tink :icon_chick:
at first I was ready to jump all over this and I'm glad I went to refill my coffee...
I think this has really become normal behavior in today's society...the 'victimization'
we can't be special if we don't make ourselves special
"You have no idea what it is like to be raped!!!!!"
"You have no idea what it is like to be deaf (or 'hearing impared')!!!!"
"You have no idea what it is like to be....."
by talking and sharing maybe I can learn to understand your feelings?
Always...Teree
QuoteYes, the truth sometimes hurts. And sometimes it must be told.
So you are saying we should lie?
Everyone is not equal we all have our certain gifts. The question I think you are asking is why is there a pecking order?
When facts are in question everyone will put in their two cents, it takes some research to figure it out.
People can be nicer to each other but not at the expense of making fibs.
Holy old post, Batman! (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc09.deviantart.com%2Fimages%2Fi%2F2001%2F36%2Fe%2F5%2Fbatman.gif&hash=ebe2e317d6171e2b2e285208d722d69c1aaadef4)
BTW, I never said we should lie to each other. I just said we should speak the truth in the best way we can. Sometimes that means just shutting up and saying nothing. Other times, it means taking a little time and rephrasing things to take the unnecessary edge off of them. Meanness puts the other person on the defensive. So at that point the truth of your statement doesn't even matter any more. It will not be heard.
Since that topic appeared we have a whole new generation of people on here. There are still bullies out there who like to treat others badly by what they say, and others who are so insecure they have to act like their way of life/transition (or the lack of it) is the only way anyone should ever go. Some things never change.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: Kristi on May 16, 2009, 12:01:49 PM
Some things never change.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
You have echoed something I have felt for quite a while now. Ive started on my second attempt at transition, the first time being back in the 80s when I have neither the resources, finances or perhaps even maturity to follow through to completion. Spent years regretting not transitioning then, only recently did it dawn on me that its only too late if I choose to give up.
That being said, there are some farther along in the journey that dont know my past and will behave as if I could not understand the issues or experiences they think they uniquely share. To them I tend to say nothing, because there's little point. But there have also been a fair number of supportive folks as well, and I wouldnt be on this site if I hadnt known them elsewhere from other sites where I am anything but a newbie.
Which brings me to my next point. Having spent time elsewhere its not hard to figure out who the helpful folks are in any new forum (new from my perspective), and I can see you are one of those that helps others. I recently started to question my value or usefulness on another place where I have spent considerable time, wondering if I made a difference. I was overwhelmed by the response from both the old timers (compared to me) and by the current and "newbie" members whom I had no idea were following my posts. Sometimes it takes a smack upside the head to see what we cannot because we cant see the forest for the trees.
In time I expect the same to happen for me here, but I know that only possible if members like yourself continue to post and help others. Dont let those that would make you feel small deter you, as it does a disservice not just to yourself, but to the whole community and forum at large. I may have gone through this before, but the first time I didnt have an ex wife, teenage son and business w/business partner to contend with as well (on top of family, friends, etc), and so this second time I know I will need all the support I can get. I came here because I could not get what I needed from the other place, which is not an indictment or criticism... everyplace and everyone has a purpose to serve. And you are no different, you have a place and purpose here.
BTW, pedastals are made for the vain, if you find yourself at the bottom of one, its probably because you dont need one in the first place... ;D :D
anyone who is in need of a smack aside the head, please report to me. I need something to do.
I'll point out that a probably unkown percentage of us are going to have another "issue" riding shotgun with ones GID.
Lets see addiction, anziexty disorders, bi-polar, border-line personality disorders, depression, multiple personalities and potential for stalking come to mind.
I can control two sets of events in my life. My actions and my responses to other peoples actions.
When I react to others actions, than I am acting on an emotional, rather than rational basis.
So keep in mind y'all... it's a crazy world out there, and some bring their crazyiness here to Susans.
An interesting correlation I find in reading others posts. Those most against therapy seem to be the least well adjusted among us.
Finally in my experience. More often than not envy is the downfall of the envious, not the envied.
Mich'