I HATE THISSSSSS
How can I be stealth when they need to know what my name used to be? (maggie)
I just applied to target and did not list my previous name, I have previously worked for target and I am hoping they won't need to background check me, because last time I didn't list my old name the background check was held back a bit, but it was not too bad to tell them my old name because they already knew I was trans because my mother works there and has a big mouth.
But I mean, I don't want them to know! I guess I could just be like.. "if you had a girls name, wouldn't you change it too?" But that is a bit of a stretch.
Opinions?
Was Maggie short for something (as in, is that exactly what you write for former names)? You could always just claim it was a family name if they actually asked. I know I went around being seen as 100% female but with the name Caleb and people kinda...you know...lol. Some thought it was weird but most were like "OK, a girl named Caleb." So they might not even think "that person used to be a girl" they might think "poor guy had a strange name..."
yeah, it was legally maggie
I had the same thing happen to me, ugh I hated it.. when I wasn't passing people would ask my name, I say "Elijah" and then say "oh, what an interesting name for a girl" and "thats a pretty name for a girl" *BARF*
I'm thinking you'll probably be okay and should just relax until you find out. I applied at a fast food place and it was my first job, and I really didn't want to put the female variant of my name so I just put Alex. The background check went okay but my boss at the time did tell me that for any legal form I have to use my legal birth name. Anyway, given that your name (I'm assuming) is legally changed now I don't see what the harm could be.
Also, if you do have to provide it for some reason, people generally don't care lol. They might raise an eyebrow for a brief moment but at the end of the day, do you think the main thing on their mind is the name your parents chose for you or all the BS going on in their lives? And not to talk about me once again but the one time I passed (this lady refereed to me as my mom's son) she also misheard me say my name and thought I said Alice and didn't seem weirded out by it at all. So, yeah, people really just don't care.
Quote from: Elijah on July 11, 2013, 12:10:47 AM
I had the same thing happen to me, ugh I hated it.. when I wasn't passing people would ask my name, I say "Elijah" and then say "oh, what an interesting name for a girl" and "thats a pretty name for a girl" *BARF*
Yeah, and having seen your pictures, I imagine they'd just think "that's a weird name he had..." :) I would try not to let it get to you. You're far enough along that people aren't likely to think of you as female even if they know your birth name.
I've never put my birth name on anything since having it changed over a decade ago and have never had any issues with it.
I'm actually curious if I can get away with not putting my birth name down on the previous names list, as I changed it while I was a minor with zero work experience/history and was completely dependent on my parents. :/
Quote from: ornismon on July 11, 2013, 01:38:17 PM
I'm actually curious if I can get away with not putting my birth name down on the previous names list, as I changed it while I was a minor with zero work experience/history and was completely dependent on my parents. :/
I would say yes but do it at your own risk. I changed mine when I had just turned 20. At that time I had worked a little but didn't have debt in my old name or a criminal record. I just leave that part on an application blank. Never had any employer approach me about it.
hey, thanks everyone for your responses.
If I have to I will just go with the "my parents suck for naming me that" idea
Quote from: ornismon on July 11, 2013, 01:38:17 PM
I'm actually curious if I can get away with not putting my birth name down on the previous names list, as I changed it while I was a minor with zero work experience/history and was completely dependent on my parents. :/
when my background check at target didnt go through, I had, had no work experience under my old name either. Guess they got confused when checking my HS.
I always just leave that part blank. I called my past jobs and told them I had changed my name, 2 out of 3 were okay with it and made a note in their records, and the last one I just don't list as a previous employer. Hasn't been an issue so far.
@Elijah: If there is NOTHING (as in all your work and educational records since high school have been changed, and you do not have any criminal record) under your old name how about following my suggestion which I've mentioned in numerous posts here on Susan's: Put down a statement like "None that any relevant records are under" or something similar if you want to "cover" yourself. They'll probably assume you were adopted or something similar (and if the name on your birth certificate has been changed you can say that's the reason for your statement if they try to inquire further). Unfortunately, if ANYTHING they may want to check is under your old name then you'll have to explain (and if you try to omit employers in hope they don't find out that can get you in trouble since people often fudge their work history in hope a new employer doesn't learn about unfavorable prior employment; that's why they often ask you to certify any gaps in employment). Likewise if your educational records are under your old name when they go to check that a message from the school like "New Name never attended here" if they aren't aware of the name change, and they'd assume you were claiming false educational credentials which is another problem in the general workforce. If you don't reveal a name (or alias, so it's not just former "legal" names) that your criminal history is under that is even worse; you could get into trouble for trying to conceal your criminal past.
@ornismom: What I said above should apply to you; if your name was changed prior to your first job and all your relevant school (and other) records are under your new name, you have no more need to explain your old name than someone who was adopted at such age.
Also, to Elijah, do you remember exactly how was the question phrased? If they ask outright if your name was changed, or if you've had any other legal names without further qualifications, then that is legally dicey on their part (for reasons of discrimination issues not confined to the TG community). All they're supposed to inquire are other names (whether or not they were your "legal" name, which could also include pseudonyms known by to your references) which are needed to check relevant records (e.g. work history, school records, criminal background). Remember a name that you went by that was not necessarily your legal name may be relevant, and some former legal names may not be relevant. If your name was changed before you had any such records, or if ALL of them are updated, then there is no need for them to know (but remember if ANY of them are under another name then you will need to mention it).
ETA: I found this post by someone (apparently who had some kind of childhood name change) ask if they needed to mention their original name; the consensus there is they don't if nothing they need to check is under it (#6 is the relevant question):
http://www.askamanager.org/2013/03/short-answer-sunday-7-short-answers-to-7-short-questions-32.html (http://www.askamanager.org/2013/03/short-answer-sunday-7-short-answers-to-7-short-questions-32.html)
ETA2: Moderator gave me permission to link directly.
Also, to Elijah: Last time a way they might have found about your prior name is through a "Social Security number trace" as it's called. How it works is any names you may have used for purposes like applying for a prior job, applying for a line of credit, rented a house or apartment through, are recorded by some data-mining companies to compile a list of all names associated with a particular SSN (it's NOT a record from the SSA themselves). (They also compile a similar list of addresses you've lived at when engaging in such.) If you have done such actions to get your prior name onto those records, then any such traces will probably out you forever unless you can change your SSN (theoretically possible but very difficult to do for TSs). In this case it's not simply a case of what was or was not your legal name: Any variations of your name (e.g. if you used a nickname on those forms, if you went by your middle name or initials, and even errors here and there) can and will show up; conversely if your name was changed before you ever did such things (e.g. adopted as a child) then those names shouldn't show up (and if they do it's a sign of something worse, in other words your identity was used illegally while you were a child). (I often warn those on here that are contemplating getting a credit card under their chosen name even if they aren't fully transitioning that said name may very well show up as another name on your credit reports and the like.)
You can get an idea of what would show up by looking up your (current) name at sites like www.intelius.com (http://www.intelius.com), www.peoplefinders.com (http://www.peoplefinders.com), etc. (which you can do for free without signing up). If your pre-transition name shows up as an alias, then you're probably out of luck with not being outed anytime an entity wants to run such a trace on you (since they are "background check" companies themselves such lists are compiled in the same manner).
ETA: Moderator gave me permission to link directly.
Quote from: tgchar21 on July 11, 2013, 06:59:55 PM
You can get an idea of what would show up by looking up your (current) name at sites like intelius (dot) com, peoplefinders (dot) com, etc. (which you can do for free without signing up). If your pre-transition name shows up as an alias, then you're probably out of luck with not being outed anytime an entity wants to run such a trace on you (since they are "background check" companies themselves such lists are compiled in the same manner).
Very good advice but just wanted to be mention a word of caution about registering for sites like peoplefinder. When you give sites like that personal information when you register, they take that as an opportunity to add that information to their database, in essence creating a record for you and giving them the very information you are trying to find if they had on you in the first place.
Quote from: spacerace on July 11, 2013, 07:56:39 PM
Very good advice but just wanted to be mention a word of caution about registering for sites like peoplefinder. When you give sites like that personal information when you register, they take that as an opportunity to add that information to their database, in essence creating a record for you and giving them the very information you are trying to find if they had on you in the first place.
I said in the post that you don't have to sign up to just search (only if you want more detailed information on a person), so you can search as I described without registering.
Quote from: tgchar21 on July 11, 2013, 07:58:16 PM
I said in the post that you don't have to sign up to just search (only if you want more detailed information on a person), so you can search as I described without registering.
Right, I was only warning people just in case, not implying you steered them in the wrong direction. Nobody likes to see their information show up in search results.
Quote from: tgchar21 on July 11, 2013, 06:40:32 PM
@Elijah: If there is NOTHING (as in all your work and educational records since high school have been changed, and you do not have any criminal record) under your old name how about following my suggestion which I've mentioned in numerous posts here on Susan's: Put down a statement like "None that any relevant records are under" or something similar if you want to "cover" yourself. They'll probably assume you were adopted or something similar (and if the name on your birth certificate has been changed you can say that's the reason for your statement if they try to inquire further). Unfortunately, if ANYTHING they may want to check is under your old name then you'll have to explain (and if you try to omit employers in hope they don't find out that can get you in trouble since people often fudge their work history in hope a new employer doesn't learn about unfavorable prior employment; that's why they often ask you to certify any gaps in employment). Likewise if your educational records are under your old name when they go to check that a message from the school like "New Name never attended here" if they aren't aware of the name change, and they'd assume you were claiming false educational credentials which is another problem in the general workforce. If you don't reveal a name (or alias, so it's not just former "legal" names) that your criminal history is under that is even worse; you could get into trouble for trying to conceal your criminal past.
@ornismom: What I said above should apply to you; if your name was changed prior to your first job and all your relevant school (and other) records are under your new name, you have no more need to explain your old name than someone who was adopted at such age.
Also, to Elijah, do you remember exactly how was the question phrased? If they ask outright if your name was changed, or if you've had any other legal names without further qualifications, then that is legally dicey on their part (for reasons of discrimination issues not confined to the TG community). All they're supposed to inquire are other names (whether or not they were your "legal" name, which could also include pseudonyms known by to your references) which are needed to check relevant records (e.g. work history, school records, criminal background). Remember a name that you went by that was not necessarily your legal name may be relevant, and some former legal names may not be relevant. If your name was changed before you had any such records, or if ALL of them are updated, then there is no need for them to know (but remember if ANY of them are under another name then you will need to mention it).
ETA: I found this post by someone (apparently who had some kind of childhood name change) ask if they needed to mention their original name; the consensus there is they don't if nothing they need to check is under it (#6 is the relevant question):
http://www (http://www) (dot) askamanager (dot) org/2013/03/short-answer-sunday-7-short-answers-to-7-short-questions-32.html
Replace each (dot) with a (.) without a space as appropriate (since I shouldn't be linking directly).
Omg! Someone who actually understands the rules. I hereby give you permission to provide links, within The TOS, of course.
Quote from: ForWantOf on July 11, 2013, 12:35:30 AMThe background check went okay but my boss at the time did tell me that for any legal form I have to use my legal birth name.
I swear I don't think it's the same in Australia. Every job that I applied for it never asked for "previous names" - it would sometimes have "name" and then "preferred name", but the only time I have ever had to put a "previous name" in a form was for police checks and Immigration purposes.
Quote from: tgchar21 on July 11, 2013, 06:40:32 PM
they'd assume you were claiming false educational credentials which is another problem in the general workforce.
Yeah, I can see why this would be cause for concern.
and to answer your question I believe the application just said "have you had any previous names" or something of that sort.
a lot of the applications just ask if you have worked under any other names
I encountered that many years ago on a National Defence security check (which you KNOW is going to be thoroughly investigated). I simply put, "Information available to qualified investigator only" (think 'witness protection'). I was contacted by a very senior police officer (RCMP), explained the situation, and they were very discrete in their investigations and sealed the records afterwards. I got the security clearance. No harm done.
Quote from: Kreuzfidel on July 11, 2013, 10:20:24 PM
I swear I don't think it's the same in Australia. Every job that I applied for it never asked for "previous names" - it would sometimes have "name" and then "preferred name", but the only time I have ever had to put a "previous name" in a form was for police checks and Immigration purposes.
You probably misunderstood the person you quoted - in his case he hadn't yet changed his legal name (although he used a nickname that works for both his original female and his chosen male name), which is different than asking someone whose name has been legally changed their former name. In this case it was like someone who goes by a nickname in most contexts - they still have to list their legal first name on documents like these.
Quote from: Northern Jane on July 12, 2013, 05:39:49 AM
I encountered that many years ago on a National Defence security check (which you KNOW is going to be thoroughly investigated). I simply put, "Information available to qualified investigator only" (think 'witness protection'). I was contacted by a very senior police officer (RCMP), explained the situation, and they were very discrete in their investigations and sealed the records afterwards. I got the security clearance. No harm done.
Security clearances are an exception to the usual guideline that names changed before adulthood do not need to be listed - here they trace you back to birth; in such a case your idea is a good one.
I want to remind you that when an employer asks such questions they're usually not out trying to discriminate against you, nor are they looking to "criminalize" anyone who doesn't mention a former name that nothing they're checking appears under. They ask because most adults (namely married women) who change their name don't go back and change every facet of their records like many TSs try to do, and they don't want to encounter a school or employer they can't verify because the name on their record is different (e.g. if they try to check if "Jane Smith" worked or attended school there and they have her record under "Jane Doe" then they'd say they have no record of "Jane Smith" and assume she's misrepresenting her history). For the sake of space on the form some don't go into further detail about what "other names" they're looking for, but it's generally held that unless it's a high-security job where they trace you back to birth, names that nothing they want to check would be under don't need to be put down. In the case of TSs, since they might have fears that they may use any technical omissions against them, that's where I got my suggestion of putting down that nothing relevant is under any other names if true simply as a way to "cover" yourself, and if they try to inquire any further that might invite potential legal issues in the case of discrimination (which is also why how they ask you about former names makes the difference; if they ask outright if you've changed [not the same as used]* another name, or ask only for former legal names as the OP worded the title, then that's strong evidence against the company in a lawsuit).
*Asking that way includes names that weren't necessarily your legal name (remember it's perfectly legal to use a pseudonym like a stage or professional name as long as it isn't fraudulent) that may be necessary to contact references, etc. and excludes names that were changed before you were of age (e.g. adoption) since when they ask if you've used or been known by another name they mean for something they're legally allowed to and are interested in knowing (e.g. if any of your work/school/criminal/etc. records are under another name) and not simply everything you may have been called since birth (otherwise some people would have to put down that they were originally "Baby" if that was entered as a placeholder if their parents were indecisive about their name when the birth was first registered).
ETA: In summary, they're not looking to penalize you for not listing every name you may have been known by in your life, but they can and will penalize you for not listing a former name that prevents them from checking and/or finding out information germane to the job qualifications.
I took a look here at some older discussions and found that Target is notoriously bad at asking about prior names that are extraneous to what they're checking. Here's (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,121145.0) a thread from a little over a year ago from the same poster as this thread's starter. Going way back to 2007 on the MTF forum here's (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,11296.0) another one.