How long did it take some of you wonderful ladies to notice muscle changes? Do they visibly get smaller over time, or is it just strength that changes? I've always had a basic female shape but with all the T i was given, and all the working out I used to do, I have very large muscles, particularly calves and upper arms. With some of the fat redistribution I've had over the last 6 months on HRT, my thighs look a bit chubby now but definitely in the right way, but my upper arms and calves look huge. I'm heading over 30 now, is muscle size even something I can expect to change? God, I sound so vain worrying about it, but it seriously depresses me. HRT has also given me a tummy which I'm sure I can work off, but I don't want to work out and risk building muscle before I know that my muscles will get smaller from the hormones, because I don't want to get any bigger.
On a positive note for anyone 30+, over the past week, I've been called "lady" by a man, and "maam" by two different women, all while presenting as male. In one case, I even had a bit of lip stubble because I didn't wax before going out, and as I was presenting as a male because I'm not out to everyone yet. So if you're thinking of transitioning and you're 30+, do it.
XO everyone
I restartrd my retransition at 39 ..
And I'm coming along just fine ...
As for muscle mass...I would say startd hard for
2 months at month 2 ...was painfull...
Will go for years very slowly and subtly also ...
I have the same chicken wings for arms I always did, even when I was lifting weights. They aren't as strong as they used to be, that's for sure and I'm not even at the 6 month mark yet. I think they look pretty much the same though.
On the bright side, as a guy I looked like a weakling. As a woman, I look like I could do some damage. Interesting how that works. Kinda like how I'm a Lesbian now too...
I am having a similar problem. I pass pretty well and look all petite and stuff and have fairly nice boobs but naked or even not naked I have all this muscle. I guess you can't tell with clothes on really and if you just went by my measurements I'd be an ungrateful b*tch but I do have a lot of what can only be considered male muscle and I am quite strong. IDK the other day I carried my purse 50 blocks, which I had a lot of stuff in and it was prolly like 30 lbs. I did collapse at the end and my BF was like get up lol but still I don't feel weaker. I have only been on HRT for 4 months and three weeks so maybe it is too soon.
im about 4 1/2 months into hrt and prior to hrt i was considerably stronger than my wife, i was never buff but was not a weakling either, we armwrestled last night as a matter of fact and we are eachothers equal in that aspaect now, my ability to lift heavy items has decreased substancially, i get alot of muscle cramps as of the last month or so. I havent noticed much muscle loss visibly but i didnt really have much to begin with. ive lost nearly 2 inches in height tho which is AWESOME! my wife is 6'3 and i was 6ft im down to right at 5'10 and i love it
To be honest, I haven't lost a lot of mass, even after 2 years, although I never had a lot to start with. I did notice that strength started seriously decreasing at around 6 months..
My arms were a HUGE problem at the beginning of HRT for me in terms of passing.
I started noticing the first batch of atrophy around the 2-month mark, when I suddenly had trouble lifting a 30-lb bed frame into my car, where before HRT I was constantly carrying 60-lb boxes of paper up three flights of stairs with about the same amount of effort.
At 4.5 months, I was having trouble hitting a volleyball over the net at all with my overhand serve, where previously I always served it out of bounds.
Now at 6 months, I feel downright weak, my shoulders are starting to look downright small, I'm starting to have trouble carrying groceries and loosening stuck knobs and opening tight jars. Go figure. I lost muscle mass VERY fast, to the point that my arms went from looking grossly out of proportion to looking within the female range in just a few months.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 14, 2013, 09:56:16 PM
Now at 6 months, I feel downright weak, my shoulders are starting to look downright small, I'm starting to have trouble carrying groceries and loosening stuck knobs and opening tight jars. Go figure. I lost muscle mass VERY fast, to the point that my arms went from looking grossly out of proportion to looking within the female range in just a few months.
See with clothes I look perfectly in range and my shoulders are like 14 inches in width and 37 inches in circumference but they are wrapped in muscle. It hasn't diminished one iota. With clothes on I look fine but I was posing for my BF and he was like you doesn't look male but you can tell you worked out hardcore before. I guess I shouldn't worry but like the OP I do wonder if it will ever go away and I have staved myself and it doesn't help. I walk long distances. Nothing. Nada. Hopefully it changes.
Gosh, first of all, there is nothing unfeminine about a muscular girl. Look at some of the Olympic swimmer and track stars. Look at the legs on ice skaters. And wow, I wish I had an ice skaters butt.
Quote from: Jamie D on July 14, 2013, 10:20:00 PM
Gosh, first of all, there is nothing unfeminine about a muscular girl. Look at some of the Olympic swimmer and track stars. Look at the legs on ice skaters. And wow, I wish I had an ice skaters butt.
I was going to leave that alone, Jamie, but since you mention it.. I've dated and known some quite muscular women.. Their muscles did not make them less feminine or attractive..
I noticed around month 2. But it been slow. and its more like the toning is smoothing out. instead of being well defined, now I just look female skinny instead of male skinny.
I also notices a change around month 2. I got that painful fatigue feeling really quick and was working with 8oz to 1gal empty plastic bottles at the time. If i had to lift a full bulk case (350 8oz bottles) over my head i was done for before my first break. I also noticed stairs were more feared, and standing for my old 10hr shifts got to be a real pain....but at least my butt looked amazing lol.
hope i could help.
I have a feeling that they are getting softer... I have noticed a definite pattern of strenght loss - last week I casually grabbed an all metal clothes-stand (which is quite heavy) - and it was like "Oh, oh.... this thing is reaaally heavy". I also had to carry some big size files, full with papers. My male colleague was grabbing 8-9 files at time, while for me 3-4 files was the comfortable weight... Then I went to groceries store, and I picked up a bag full of stuff, 5 l water can (5 kg) and a piece of watermelon (another 5 kg). Well, that watermelon was the last straw - it just made my hand hurt, because I could not carry it without switching hands after each 50 m. When I was at school I was single-handedly lifting 36 kg ball ten times.... and doing 20 pull-ups, but I was never big...
I'm moving soon and that will be right on a month on oestrogen alone so that will be interesting. Last time I moved (2 months ago) I could pick up my fridge solo (but had trouble walking with it!), I'm hoping it hasn't snuck up on me cos it will be heaps harder if I've lost much!
If so, thats what friends (and family!) are for! If I remember correctly the conversion rate for helping someone move is pizzas and a bottle of wine or a carton of beer, depending on their tastes. If the Aussie dollar is high, it's woodfire pizza and a nice kiwi sauv blanc, if its down, dominos and a cask of fruity lexia.
Mine seems to have stayed prrrettty much the same. For a while I was being very cognizant of not lifting ANYTHING because it was giving me such huge dysphoria.
Now I don't really care so much. Yeah, I have some muscle tone. Every girl I've talked to about it though is kinda jealous. If it does go away in time, I won't miss it. But for the time being it's not so much of an issue. I do like having strength when it comes down to it.
The requirements put in place for transgender athletics are somewhat telling on time frames. For a transgender athlete to compete in the Olympics, they have to be on HRT for 2 years. In California, I believe its 1 year for high school level athletics. So I'd say by the 1 year mark, expect most if not all of your muscular advantage from starting out as a male to have completely disappeared.
I guess the overall gist is it's different for everyone - some see significant changes, others don't. i've gained 20lb since going on HRT but that's thighs and tummy mostly so even losing the weight will still leave me with 13" biceps :(
I've been on hrt going on two years and my arms are bigger than when I started. I know men that are jealous of my arms....and while I wish they were smaller, It's not going to happen soon. I kept waiting for atrophy, but I do too much physical labor and am eating better than ever before in my life....atrophy won't happen if you're still using your muscles
I've noticed that I look softer, especially nude. Now into my 70th HRT day my boobs are a bit larger than an A-Cup, and growing. Muscle mass is about the same. While there have been significant changes to my face, I expect the big stuff to have in my fourth to fifth month. Having some trouble walking long distances with some occasional severe cramping that I treat with magnesium.
I don't know how much my muscles loss can be attributed to hormones and how much to weight loss, but I'm 9 months in and I struggle with things that I never had issues with before.
I thought people were joking when I read that they had trouble opening some doors or jars. I thought that was pretty dramatic but sure enough a few times now I've gone to open a big door at a store or something and not be prepared for how heavy it was. There's also been a few occasions where I've simply given up trying to open a jar.
Also, I have two cats and whenever I went to buy cat litter I would buy two of the big 40lb boxes. I had no issues carrying both at the same time prior to starting hormones but now I have to use both hands and struggle a bit just to carry one.
I can't say for sure when it started but it's definitely been noticeable.
Yup I am definitely loosing overall strength but only a very slight reduction in muscle mass at 4+ months on HRT. I do lot's of outdoor farm chores and trail work here that is helping me stay toned. As Jamie D notes there is nothing unfeminine about a muscular girl and I don't mind a bit that I am strong enough to "take care of myself." My pectoral muscles have changed as these girly boobs are more fat than muscle and bounce when I run for fun.....and that makes me very happy too.
The other night I had a really scary dream that I was in the first stages of being abducted by some really creepy guys (one guy came up behind me and tried to get a bag over my head). Luckily I still had my strength about me, gave him an elbow to the gut and got away rather unscathed. Still, a SUPER CREEPY dream. Yikes.
Being extra careful now. And yeah, I don't mind having some extra muscle at all.
Last week I had to carry an old TV, which was about 30-40kg heavy - I sort of did that job, by my bicepses did really hurt afterwards for DAYS.
.....
Oh yeah
.....
I bought a wheely cart for hauling my groceries from the car to my apartment. I buy things like carbonated water (Helped me lose the most weight as it replaced soda for me) and cat litter mentioned above. All because my strength is gone.
To think, a year ago I wrestled a box spring up five flights of stairs with no help. Still thought I was going to die, but I did it. Six months HRT one week from today.
It varies. In my case, it increased my muscle mass. My doctor said this is not unheard of, but no problem with that. The only thing that is decreasing my muscle mass is the debilitating, very painful foot neuropathy the past year confining me to bed at times. The cause is still unknown. HRT usage, diabetes, gout and the other usual suspects were ruled out. There is some pain relief from a painkiller, but the problem is spreading. I am slowly regaining the muscle mass nonetheless.
Joelene
I have now been on hrt 13 days and have started having pain in my muscles in my legs and ask my doctor if this normal and told me muscles can start to soften in a week to 10 days in some people but effects most people in different ways and now to cases r the same
Being capable, fit and having endurance are part of overall health but the psychological aspects of this are fascinating too. Having gratefully given up on "acting like a man" I no longer feel compelled to "be a man" and solve problems like lifting monster weights or fixing the car.... It feels so much better to ask for help but friends have encouraged me not to fall into the "oh so fragile and breathlessly helpless act" either. Some friends are uncomfortable with that part of me not being a guy who they could call on to move furniture or more. I recognize that I am also dealing with my own stereotypes about male and female but it is such a relief to not feel like somehow it is my role to take charge. Now living in a more cooperative and less competitive way feels like another major advantage of transition and HRT. A softer and yet toned physique is a reasonable goal for this girl.
I would say the effects of HRT are immediate. As time progresses you can expect (within about two years) to see a "bell curve" of atrophy. For the first month you may lose very little, and the overall loss will peak at around 6 months to even a year. I am just generalizing results here... trying to share my experience.
IMO, there are 3 keys to loss of upper body strength. First and foremost... start on HRT if you already havent.
Secondly, diet. Eating high protein meals will inevitably help maintain whatever muscle you already have. Try eating less proteins and more veggies & complex carbs.
Last is exercise. Keep doing pushups and lifting and you will maintain/gain upper body muscles. Try running/walking/jogging instead.
If you follow those three steps you can expect great loss of upper body bulk. I know that I did.
Keep in mind there is nothing wrong with being muscular. I am at a point now where I work out in order to gain! Lose a lot when you first transition (the "boy" muscles) but afterwards exercise and healthy eating are always great ideas!
Quote from: stacey fisher on July 23, 2013, 06:40:40 AM
I have now been on hrt 13 days and have started having pain in my muscles in my legs and ask my doctor if this normal and told me muscles can start to soften in a week to 10 days in some people but effects most people in different ways and now to cases r the same
good to know that! ;D
I am just starting month two of EV. I'm about 2 onthes and two weeks into my AA. Although my AA is a low dose, it acted FAST, especially once the injections began weekly.
Before I could lift a lot, having been in the army. My mother in law attributed it to laziness at first, which was needless to say, no fun, and quite a few arguements to get people to understand that even though the muscles *appear* to be there, I definitivly have lost upper body strength and can no longer try.....what was once fifty pounds feels like 200, and what was once 20lbs now feels like 100. Not sure if that makes sence, but ya....lifting heavy stuff no longer is viable. I have somewhat opera arm going on at rest, but i notice if i flex (which i still do as a larger upper rm mass makes me feel not so passable) I can still see the mass and tone of my muscles.....actually, looking down now, they are no longer as toned as they once were. But this can be attributed to no longer working out like I once did prior (ex special forces, ya you read that correct! Even as a commo geek, you needed to use your arms daily! No lie, I can prove it if challenged on here.....). Now if I was thrown into the same mix with my old colleagues, I would say that I might not be able to perform as well physically, but would still do it, if that makes sence.
I'm just wanting these upper arms to deminish quite fast. As they have been. I want *all* muscles to go away in my physique upper body wise, really. I notice my shoulder sseem smaller, but could just be attributed to other changes....either way, my end goal arm wise, is to have nce slender, feminine arms like a model. Nothing against muscular, toned women, I just dont want that. At the moment, I feel like Xena Warrior Princess with Jon and Kate hair lol. The muscles can go away....right along with facial hair. I find if I focus on what I *can* change, the other stuff like fat redist, and breast growth, facial changes, will be a surprise as I am not so *uber fixated* on them. Took me a month to draw that conclusion, because daily, its a "whats different whats different" game that I *know* annoys the wife, because it was starting to annoy me and I am who is doing that heh.
But if I were to put an actual % f strength drop this early, I am going to say its around 15% to be conservative, and 35% liberal. So most likely somewhere in the middle. As for atrophy, I am going to ask my Endo come sept what AA dose will help increase it, as well as a conjunction of now limited protein. Before, protein was the name of the game. Now, not so much, dependant upon the ingestion variables/rates.
Best of wishes to you all!
Quote from: kariann330 on July 15, 2013, 01:41:46 AM
....but at least my butt looked amazing lol.
lol, that was awesome. Congrats on your amazing butt! :D
I am currently using siterone (androcur) for about 1 months and 2 weeks. But I haven't noticed any muscle changes at all. :(
I have been on HRT for 4 months. I have list alot of strength. I have also lost muscle mass in shoulders, butt and legs. My wife massaged my shoulders today and was shocked at how much less muscle mass I had in my shoulders. Kinda freaked her out but she is fine.
I find that the size of my arms fluctuates greatly with my overall weight. Recently, my appetite has been super low and I've lost nearly all of the excess weight I gained from May into July. I lost about 12 pounds in total during August so far, and I'm back to the low side of my ideal weight. The interesting thing is that my biceps are now once again <10" around, and I've been working myself overtime in the shop bending metal and lifting heavy objects all day.
I feel like my arm muscle is still pretty much the same but there is just a lot less padding around it which makes my arms look waaay less bulky- even though it's really only a difference of about 0.5" circumference.
And honestly I think that not eating immediately for a few hours if you do do something active does help. Also I have been eating mostly raw vegan low sugar and low protein. I'm very happy with the way my arms look now.
Almost 3,5 months in the HRT, I have certainly lost a lot of physical strength but not that much of visible muscle loss. I dunno, some of that could be attributed to weight loss but I my shoulders got narrower - I am in the upper range for average female width with my 17' shoulders. My forearms look quite toned down and probably would pass as female. I have not seen much loss in my biceps - but if I flex them almost nothing happens - but they still get firm and such. But if I have to carry something heavier then they DO hurt a lot afterwards. Which is nice :). Triceps has almost totally melted but I never had them in "proper" shape :P.
Quote from: Glitterfly on August 25, 2013, 11:58:45 AM
is 17" your biacromial or outside width?
Outside, since I cant measure biacromial myself :(
Quote from: Glitterfly on August 25, 2013, 12:22:56 PM
oh okay :) where did you get the 'upper female range'? did you find a chart of some kind...? if yes copy it here or post a link please ^^
I remember I was reading this article
http://www.livestrong.com/article/484806-the-average-shoulder-width-for-females/ (http://www.livestrong.com/article/484806-the-average-shoulder-width-for-females/)
and then somewhere else I read that those 17' are like the upper range for females (was quite reassuring as I hope to get my down to 16').
Quote from: The Wagoneer on July 14, 2013, 09:08:26 PM
ive lost nearly 2 inches in height tho which is AWESOME! my wife is 6'3 and i was 6ft im down to right at 5'10 and i love it
Whut?? How can that be, I didn't think that was possible?? I'm almost 6'2" so would be interesting if this is possible! :o
Yes You can loose 1-2 inches of Your height over extended period of time (about two years usually), as well as get a decrease in Your shoes size (which happened pretty fast for me).
Quote from: -Emily- on August 25, 2013, 12:58:44 PM
Yes You can loose 1-2 inches of Your height over extended period of time (about two years usually), as well as get a decrease in Your shoes size (which happened pretty fast for me).
Holy wow, never knew that before now! That's exciting, not like it will happen but always thought 5'10" would be the perfect height to be. I'm pretty much 6'1" so 5'11" would be something to look forward to. Also my feet are HUUUGE lol, so that would be another plus!
How many shoe sizes did you lose and how fast? Smallest I wear is a 10.5 or 11 in mens US size.
I have always been in European male 41-42 range, closer to 41. I noticed that when I picked one pair of shoes, which were quite comfortable for me, put them on and then literally stepped out of them... So now, I am 40-41, which get quite complicated, because 41 is essentially the lowest size one can get here. It happened pretty fast and in my opinion was mostly related to weight loss. The HRT has affected my soles though - they are softer and smoother now, which is nice for touching but has resulted in several tripping accidents when I walked bare-feet on slippery floor tiles... Never really bothered about that before and then whooops and my back hits the floor and I feel stupid...