I thought I'd share my own observations for other people who may be having similar experience to me.
so often, we read stories of how somebody came to the conclusion they were transgender etc. so often we hear talk of depression and suicidal tendencies. But perhaps there are trans people who are not in deep depression or suicidal? some people who for example have learnt to cope with negative feelings and either push them aside, treat them as unimportant or focus on other things, or even block those feelings completely. these people may live a 'normal' life, but perhaps they never fully blossom.
my own focus right now is sexuality. not who I am attracted to, but how my experience of sex effects me. pornography has never been an issue for me, I watch a moderate amount of porn, not a lot, but enough to get me by. I don't really enjoy the male sex drive to be honest and I wish i could turn it off. it is such an inconvenience and sometimes it takes over completely. I watch straight porn, man and woman, pretty pedestrian, nothing too kinky. I do note, that I prefer media that is passionate and shows true connection between the two people. but I've never really questioned, who exactly it is I am identifying with in the video. now more recently I question who it is I identify with. the man or the woman. tough question because i can't seem to give a good answer. well something that may be relevant. I always like to play as the female character in video games. I often love to zoom in on the character and acknowledge that those are 'my' breasts, and that is 'my' butt. perhaps when I watch porn, I am identifying with the woman?
Well when I am with a woman in real life, it's all different. I don't have the same rhythm I guess... when she's ready to get it on, I'm just not there. as soon as she starts focusing on my man parts, it's like the passion disappears, I bring her back to cuddling and kissing etc, and it's a big turn on again, but when it comes to the 'main event' the parts just don't perform as they need to.
The only times when I have ever actually reached the finish line, it was like an assault on the senses.. the girl I was with pushed all the right buttons so that my body responded but my emotions just weren't there. it was very unsatisfying.
I don't hate my genitals etc, they do the job that they are there for, but I think... I just don't really have an intimate relationship with my own parts and I don't seem to enjoy them being paid attention to.
something else I focus on is dressing up.. now don't get me wrong, I don't have an overwhelming desire to put on dresses etc. I would just like the option to dress up nice and feel like it is 'correct'.
then there is figure.. I don't detest my body. I love my body, it is a wonderful thing that does its best for me. I just think that perhaps my chest should be smaller and my legs a bit wider. I also think I should have less body and facial hair.
these things don't cause me huge distress and I live my life b=day by day and have friends and can have fun... well sort of have fun... well i'm not so sure about that to be completely honest.
I suppose when i do feel that i truly enjoy something, I get a very unpleasant sickly feeling.
I also feel like I am not a person that people would enjoy spending time with.
so maybe that is depression and I jsut don't realise it. but I don't feel depressed. I feel happy on many occasions. I feel elated when I lsiten to my favourite music etc.
so I think that....
what I want to share here is that I do not believe that a person needs to feel suicidal to be trans or to accept that they are trans. I just think that a person needs to consider what is truly important to their happiness. instead of focusing on moving away from depression, for some it may be more about moving towards true happiness and self love/appreciation.
Quotewhat I want to share here is that I do not believe that a person needs to feel suicidal to be trans or to accept that they are trans.
No feels suicidal to be trans, they feel suicidal because of the non acceptance, inability to exist as themselves, and bullying received from being trans. Big difference.
sorry, that's not the first time i've done that.
I need to learn to write that in a better way.
what I mean is... if a person does not feel suicidal (like from being under pressure or feeling dissonance or whatever issues are stopping them from being who they are) it doesn't mean that they aren't trans.
OK, now that makes a whole lot of sense.
Quote from: jker86 on July 21, 2013, 03:59:47 PM
sorry, that's not the first time i've done that.
I need to learn to write that in a better way.
what I mean is... if a person does not feel suicidal (like from being under pressure or feeling dissonance or whatever issues are stopping them from being who they are) it doesn't mean that they aren't trans.
Of course :). Do You question Yourself being trans? Maybe You are, maybe You aren't... Nobody is going to answer this question for You - You will have to look deep into Yourself to find the answer. We, others - we can help You by asking You questions, but the rest is entirely Your responsibility :). I am getting impression that You feel like You are standing at the crossroads now. In a sense, You are :). But let me tell this - even if You were suicidal at some point of Your life, or whole of it - even then You would be questioning Yourself being trans while standing at these crossroads. Well, probably - maybe You wouldn't :P Nothing can be 100% sure in this life, especially if You are trans ;).
Yes, there seems to be a good number of people in the trans* community who are trying to foist a certain narrative upon everyone. I've seen people flat-out say that if you don't suffer from severe depression, and you don't hate yourself and your body, then you're not trans*.
I mean, it's just talk like that that makes me feel out of place in trans* circles because I have a lot of issues that are much worse and have nothing to do with my gender. They're kind of top priority, and the last thing I need is to be told that something's wrong if I don't have even more to cope with and heal from.
Knowing quite a few TS's that transitioned to full time I have to say that there is a big correlation between transitioning and suicide. Often it is a case of "Transition is just another word for nothing left to loose"; My apologies to Janis Joplin. When faced with either offing yourself or taking on the trans beast well.... taking on the trans beast means I still have options. Death is final
Do you have to get to that point? No. I have no doubt I am trans and felt that way since about the age of four. I loosely put myself in the non-op TS class. (Baring a multi-million lottery winning ticket) I am somewhat happy about the life I have been able to make for myself. I also still have a dream that someday I can life full-time as a woman.
Quote from: JoanneB on July 21, 2013, 05:58:55 PM
Knowing quite a few TS's that transitioned to full time I have to say that there is a big correlation between transitioning and suicide. Often it is a case of "Transition is just another word for nothing left to loose"; My apologies to Janis Joplin. When faced with either offing yourself or taking on the trans beast well.... taking on the trans beast means I still have options. Death is final
Do you have to get to that point? No. I have no doubt I am trans and felt that way since about the age of four. I loosely put myself in the non-op TS class. (Baring a multi-million lottery winning ticket) I am somewhat happy about the life I have been able to make for myself. I also still have a dream that someday I can life full-time as a woman.
Good points.
Also, someone who may not feel depressed at 20 or 30 may feel differently at 40 or 50 or older. There are a lot of people who transition in middle age and beyond with suicidal feelings. I'm guessing they must not always have been that desperate or they wouldn't have survived that long.
Of course, not saying that every trans person will feel that way given enough time; just that this thing tends to get worse.
I know a number of upbeat and optimistic transgender people. Depression and suicide are not infrequent but certainly are not required stops on the punchcard to get to TRANSYLVANIA. My apologies to the Romanians and early 17th century american historians ;)
Prior to accepting my trans self I was fairly ok coping with life but my intimate world and identity were beginning to collapse under the unacknowledged weight of repression and denial. For many of us there is an indescribable joy and relief in effectively dealing with our dysphoria. There really seems to be a broad continuum or spectrum of experience and expectations here. I agree that many of us may have other priorities that do not include gender. By this age I bring along some expensive baggage no matter where I am going and am glad to still have strong enough arms for my weight:)
Quote from: Fitter Admin on July 21, 2013, 06:16:36 PM
Also, someone who may not feel depressed at 20 or 30 may feel differently at 40 or 50 or older. There are a lot of people who transition in middle age and beyond with suicidal feelings. I'm guessing they must not always have been that desperate or they wouldn't have survived that long.
Of course, not saying that every trans person will feel that way given enough time; just that this thing tends to get worse.
wow, I felt like I was hit by a truck after reading this.
I never even imagined what I might feel like in ten years and most likely still being single and never having a satisfactory sex life. I guess feeling like I feel now, and then pushing it away and repressing that for another ten years.. that might drive me to a dark place. never realised.
I guess I'm very lucky. I'm currently 33, look 25 and IMO quite pretty. my features are not very masculine, I have met a few girls who have bigger hands than me. at this stage, it is good that I am considering this seriously as in 10 years i might not be so fortunate.
Tessa, that really made me laugh, I love it! Transylvania!! I actually LMAO.
Emily, I like the crossroads analogy. it's nice :)
main thing I want to do is check my hormone balance. I am convinced I have an imbalance as it is. I actually know for a fact my brother has an imbalance, he has been tested. so whatever happens, I think I may benefit from HRT, what I'll do is to let them know that I would prefer a more female balance. I can always gauge how I feel about it before unreversable changes.
I have always loved life- irrespective of discovering my trans-ness.
Ever since being out to myself and beginning transition, though, life has quickly been becoming much more valuable and fulfilling in ways I never even expected.
Life can be so much more for transgender people... It can be groovy and extraordinary due to the truly individualized paths we must take in order to simply "be ourselves". It's not easy or hard, it's just a different way. And with something different comes all sorts of opportunities to find something special in our lives. We are in the BEST position really, and I truly wish that every trans person could appreciate life in that regard.
Well I don't think you have to be suicidal but in order to be diagnosed with GID, don't you have to be experiencing some level of distress. I mean the D is GID stands for dysphoria which means a state of being significantly unwell or unhappy. Does that have to mean suicidal? No. But I identify as transsexual not transgender. It may be different for transgender people. For me, it's not about clothes or being "who I am" it is about correcting what I know is wrong. I feel like something went horribbly wrong in utero and I developed as male when I was supposed to develop as female. And it is not so much about correcting my gender as it is my sex. It is all about the physical sex charecteristics. I will not feel complete until SRS. And yeah I realize that I will never be actually female but that is as close as I can get and that's what I aim for.
I guess it comes down to I have had severe empotional problems since I was 6 and if there was anything else I could do to stop this I would. I have prolly tried it to. Suicide. check. 10s of therapists check. Heroin. Check. Nothing works. Right now is prolly the closest I've ever felt to being somewhat comfortable in my skin.
I just thin when I read some comments like this that being trans is no big deal when I am heroin addict because of it is really invalidating and makes me feel awful. Like I am some kind of bad guy just for fitting in some narrative that I barely knew existed before and didn't think was a big deal. I actually get very turned off by how political being trans seems to be. I consider a medical condition yet it has this political component. I won't lie it annoys me and the people who make it political aggravate me because they making my life harder then neccesary.
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 09:52:13 PM
I have always loved life- irrespective of discovering my trans-ness.
Ever since being out to myself and beginning transition, though, life has quickly been becoming much more valuable and fulfilling in ways I never even expected.
Life can be so much more for transgender people... It can be groovy and extraordinary due to the truly individualized paths we must take in order to simply "be ourselves". It's not easy or hard, it's just a different way. And with something different comes all sorts of opportunities to find something special in our lives. We are in the BEST position really, and I truly wish that every trans person could appreciate life in that regard.
I think it's great you feel this way but I don't think I will ever really get over the hurt of being born male and never being able to conceive and always being different. I just want to be normal.
Quote from: Lo on July 21, 2013, 05:30:06 PM
Yes, there seems to be a good number of people in the trans* community who are trying to foist a certain narrative upon everyone. I've seen people flat-out say that if you don't suffer from severe depression, and you don't hate yourself and your body, then you're not trans*.
I mean, it's just talk like that that makes me feel out of place in trans* circles because I have a lot of issues that are much worse and have nothing to do with my gender. They're kind of top priority, and the last thing I need is to be told that something's wrong if I don't have even more to cope with and heal from.
I actually feel it is excactly the opposite. I feel like I get made out to be an elitist just for having the life experience I have. My life has been horrible. You prolly wouldn't believe me if I told you. But I really don't think there is a narrative. People accused me of that and I really feel like they were trying to justify their transitioning and it was total projection. I can't help that I fit some criteria of having expereinced GID since age 6. I just think it is unfair to be called out for something I can't change and certainly don't want. I hate being trans and just wish I was cis. In fact, I feel out of place in trans circles because I know very few people who have always known and if you are this way you get called an elitist. It's unfair. Point blank. And it is invalidating. I actually expected when I first started coming to trans places to finally meet people like me and to finally be able to relate to people and all I have found is that even here I'm a weirdo.
That being said, I do agree you don;t have to have had my crappy life to be trans. Far form it. I just think you should have to expereince some level of discomfort with your gender to have GID.
I'm not trying to offend anyone and hop I didn't but I just sometimes feel really invalidated when people act like being trans isn't a big thing and that transitioning is just some thing people do. For me it is the only thing. And not a choice. The only alternative is suidice or heroin. And i've tried both. And the latter is the only reason I made it to 30.
I was not depressed, but I have been thru severe depression in my life. I didn't associate it with being trans. TBH, I didn't know what to associate it with. I think that I never felt things were right somehow, and now I do. But I wasn't suicidal. But yes, it's a big deal. I think though everyone adjusts differently. And some people have reactions where their make-up means they react to thing in a more extreme way than others. So I think it's perfectly likely for some people to be suicidal and some people to actually kind of adjust to not being depressed. It doesn't mean the people who are suicidal are more trans or that the people who adjust are better somehow. Just that people are all different and have different reactions.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on July 21, 2013, 10:37:28 PM
I was not depressed, but I have been thru severe depression in my life. I didn't associate it with being trans. TBH, I didn't know what to associate it with. I think that I never felt things were right somehow, and now I do. But I wasn't suicidal. But yes, it's a big deal. I think though everyone adjusts differently. And some people have reactions where their make-up means they react to thing in a more extreme way than others. So I think it's perfectly likely for some people to be suicidal and some people to actually kind of adjust to not being depressed. It doesn't mean the people who are suicidal are more trans or that the people who adjust are better somehow. Just that people are all different and have different reactions.
--Jay
Heck yes. Totally. Tons of people are unhappy with themselves. Some people will find a way to be unhappy with themselves no matter what- trans or not.
Discomfort is part of life for everyone. If we were totally comfortable with our current situation, there would be no where to go & nothing to do... We would not survive as an organism. Life is always somewhat of a battle any way you look at it. Some people's battles during life are more pronounced or prolonged due to being either physiologically or psychologically not as adept to handling the cards they've been dealt. Still, everyone's got things they will need to do in life that they at first reject and have to grow from. My point is: even the people with the "good life" have it hard sometimes just like everyone else.
I think for me I'm soooo much happier now that I'm transitioning. But I do wish I was more like you Jenny. You have such a positive attitude and upbeat outlook. It really admire it so so much. Hopefully in time I will be able to put a lot of my issues behind me and try to be like that. But yeah I guess you can be kinda comfortable in life and still need to transition. I think it is kinda hard sometimes when you get depressed to see those things and to relate to that type of upbeatness. Though I really do want to.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 22, 2013, 01:35:19 AM
I think for me I'm soooo much happier now that I'm transitioning. But I do wish I was more like you Jenny. You have such a positive attitude and upbeat outlook. It really admire it so so much. Hopefully in time I will be able to put a lot of my issues behind me and try to be like that. But yeah I guess you can be kinda comfortable in life and still need to transition. I think it is kinda hard sometimes when you get depressed to see those things and to relate to that type of upbeatness. Though I really do want to.
Joanna that is really sweet of you to say!! Thank you :D :D :D I hope that my words here can somehow help you and others to find an upbeat attitude for themselves as well. Moar happy people, yes! That is what we want!
I feel like half the battle is accepting that in order to be happy with life you have to be okay not being happy at times and not let it wear you down too much. I just trust that bad times will pass, and soon enough I figure out what I need to do to move on. It took me 20 years to figure the big one out (I started having dysphoric feelings when I was 8 ). In the meantime I found ways to cope that were both good and bad, but mostly good I guess.
I still had my fair share of anxiety and depression, but even in my worst moments (completely agoraphobic w/ 4 panic attacks a day) I knew deep down that I would conquer it- and I did. Alone. It was by far the cruddiest year of my life, but also easily the one of the most essential in terms of what I learned. I don't regret going through it at all.
Quote from: jker86 on July 21, 2013, 08:13:54 PM
I never even imagined what I might feel like in ten years and most likely still being single and never having a satisfactory sex life. I guess feeling like I feel now, and then pushing it away and repressing that for another ten years.. that might drive me to a dark place. never realised.
Oh, be warned. Thinking about Yourself in 10-20-30 years and realising that You might still be a man then, getting older, sadder, balding and such... Now THIS might be the turning point and get You into suicidal mode. When I was in my teens I had no information about transsexuality and GD and thus I had absolutely no idea WTF was going inside of me and the source of that constant sadness and alienating inside. Yet, I was toying with the idea of suicide, but that went away after I made one "exploring" attempt, which was never found out anyway.
Yet, when I was in my beginning steps of transition, there was one moment when I felt like nobody else except of me wanted this to happen - I kind of sensed that everybody around me was slowly drifting away, I felt unwanted and that I was creating additional problems for those close to me. What made things worse, was that at the same time I felt like finally my dream is coming true, I was seeing light at the end of the tunnel, but I could not get there. So I decided that the best outcome would be to erase myself from their existance and there was only one way to accomplish that. So, although I was not that much suicidal before, but not being able to transition, pretty quickly got me there. Besides, knowing statistics and that narrative, which sort of obliges You.. it all added its weight for my decision.
Joanna, I'm so sorry to bring up this subject and any of my comments that have made you feel invalidated. I absolutely think that it's a huge issue for anyone involved and in many/most cases, it is the biggest issue. I mean, this kind of issue relates to pro-creation and that is kinda the whole purpose of life for most people, to produce offspring and have a family etc. I'm generalising of course. what I was meaning to say is that while it is a huge issue, it doesn't necessarily mean that a person has to be at tipping point.
Jennygirl, this is so weird, I relate to what you write so much. I also like to carry a positive attitude along with me, and a lot of what you wrote sounds exactly like my own experience. to top it all off, the name I had in mind that I thin I want to use is Jennifer. :o
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 22, 2013, 01:35:19 AM
I think for me I'm soooo much happier now that I'm transitioning. But I do wish I was more like you Jenny. You have such a positive attitude and upbeat outlook. It really admire it so so much. Hopefully in time I will be able to put a lot of my issues behind me and try to be like that. But yeah I guess you can be kinda comfortable in life and still need to transition. I think it is kinda hard sometimes when you get depressed to see those things and to relate to that type of upbeatness. Though I really do want to.
I think if you want to be positive that is a great first step. just wanting to be more positive is the first part. the next bit is to try and always find the good in situations that seem bad. it may be difficult, but there is always some good in a situation. if you can't see it, try and project it so as to have potential positive outcomes. like a really bad argument with somebody, may result in a keener understanding and potentially a closer friendship.
Yeah I have to agree with some of the people hear. I know from what I remember I was not really depressed but that be because I really did not think. Let alone think about being trans or my penis. I was always out of sight out of mine.
But I have noticed that some trans people are really depressed even more so pre op. I could never really understand why but I know they were more complexed and cerebral than me
I've never been depressed other than back in the late 70's during the Carter administration when the Fed kicked interest rates so high that mortgage interest was at 19%. I was a builder with a million dollars in standing inventory that no-one could afford to buy, I went bankrupt and lost everything. I was depressed, on my knees every morning in tears until I took inventory of the more important things like good health, family and those things that the system couldn't strip away from me. Being trans is nothing to be despondent about as long as one has a plan and is making forward momentum. For me it has always been a happy and optimistic experience.
Shantel (yeah that WAS a bad time!!) anyway, I kind of identify with that. I feel happy to transition, as I didn't know I could. I sort of privileged in a way. I think since I am older, I just didn't know I could ever do this so that know that I know I am really happy. Hope this makes sense.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on July 22, 2013, 11:55:12 AM
Shantel (yeah that WAS a bad time!!) anyway, I kind of identify with that. I feel happy to transition, as I didn't know I could. I sort of privileged in a way. I think since I am older, I just didn't know I could ever do this so that know that I know I am really happy. Hope this makes sense.
--Jay
Makes perfect sense to me Jay, I relate completely..(hugs)
You don't have to feel depressed. People experience things differently. It does invalidate or invalidate anything.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 21, 2013, 10:18:00 PM
Well I don't think you have to be suicidal but in order to be diagnosed with GID, don't you have to be experiencing some level of distress. I mean the D is GID stands for dysphoria which means a state of being significantly unwell or unhappy. Does that have to mean suicidal? No. But I identify as transsexual not transgender. It may be different for transgender people. For me, it's not about clothes or being "who I am" it is about correcting what I know is wrong. I feel like something went horribbly wrong in utero and I developed as male when I was supposed to develop as female. And it is not so much about correcting my gender as it is my sex. It is all about the physical sex charecteristics. I will not feel complete until SRS. And yeah I realize that I will never be actually female but that is as close as I can get and that's what I aim for.
I guess it comes down to I have had severe empotional problems since I was 6 and if there was anything else I could do to stop this I would. I have prolly tried it to. Suicide. check. 10s of therapists check. Heroin. Check. Nothing works. Right now is prolly the closest I've ever felt to being somewhat comfortable in my skin.
I just thin when I read some comments like this that being trans is no big deal when I am heroin addict because of it is really invalidating and makes me feel awful. Like I am some kind of bad guy just for fitting in some narrative that I barely knew existed before and didn't think was a big deal. I actually get very turned off by how political being trans seems to be. I consider a medical condition yet it has this political component. I won't lie it annoys me and the people who make it political aggravate me because they making my life harder then neccesary.
I think it's great you feel this way but I don't think I will ever really get over the hurt of being born male and never being able to conceive and always being different. I just want to be normal.
I actually feel it is excactly the opposite. I feel like I get made out to be an elitist just for having the life experience I have. My life has been horrible. You prolly wouldn't believe me if I told you. But I really don't think there is a narrative. People accused me of that and I really feel like they were trying to justify their transitioning and it was total projection. I can't help that I fit some criteria of having expereinced GID since age 6. I just think it is unfair to be called out for something I can't change and certainly don't want. I hate being trans and just wish I was cis. In fact, I feel out of place in trans circles because I know very few people who have always known and if you are this way you get called an elitist. It's unfair. Point blank. And it is invalidating. I actually expected when I first started coming to trans places to finally meet people like me and to finally be able to relate to people and all I have found is that even here I'm a weirdo.
That being said, I do agree you don;t have to have had my crappy life to be trans. Far form it. I just think you should have to expereince some level of discomfort with your gender to have GID.
I'm not trying to offend anyone and hop I didn't but I just sometimes feel really invalidated when people act like being trans isn't a big thing and that transitioning is just some thing people do. For me it is the only thing. And not a choice. The only alternative is suidice or heroin. And i've tried both. And the latter is the only reason I made it to 30.
Thank you for saying this. My story isn't exactly alike the narrative, but it is somewhat close to it. I feel a little insulted when people refer to me as an elitist or a dishonest person because my experience was different than theirs. I'm sure those who feel vilified for not fitting into the narrative get the same things from those on the other side. I have seen it before (not here) and some people are just ridiculously nasty to other trans people who are finding themselves or those with confusion/doubts. We all go through things differently. Let's respect that.
By the way, this isn't directed at the op or the people in this thread because no one said anything harmful or insulting. I took no offense to any of the statements made above. I just see this sentiment pop up sometimes and wanted to address it. For such a diverse community that should be open minded we often have people with narrow minded and dogmatic views when it comes to some things. It doesn't occur here that much, but I have encountered it in other places and it is disheartening that people create their own personal rules and regulations about what being trans is and whether one should be accepted.
Quote from: -Emily- on July 22, 2013, 04:07:05 AM
Oh, be warned. Thinking about Yourself in 10-20-30 years and realising that You might still be a man then, getting older, sadder, balding and such... Now THIS might be the turning point and get You into suicidal mode. When I was in my teens I had no information about transsexuality and GD and thus I had absolutely no idea WTF was going inside of me and the source of that constant sadness and alienating inside. Yet, I was toying with the idea of suicide, but that went away after I made one "exploring" attempt, which was never found out anyway.
Quote from: Fitter Admin on July 21, 2013, 06:16:36 PMAlso, someone who may not feel depressed at 20 or 30 may feel differently at 40 or 50 or older. There are a lot of people who transition in middle age and beyond with suicidal feelings. I'm guessing they must not always have been that desperate or they wouldn't have survived that long.
Of course, not saying that every trans person will feel that way given enough time; just that this thing tends to get worse.
That makes sense TBH it explains a few things I did always wonder how someone could have lasted 40+ years of that hell when I tried to understand others from my own experience... My narrative dose involve extreme depression throughout and numerous suicidal swings stemming from my dysphoria. which started as my male puberty triggered then got progressively worse over the next 10years, to survive I relied on a number of rather extreme and dangerous coping techniques even then I realized my body couldn't take much more of the abuse I was throwing at it.
So I thought... "Well maybe they weren't depressed?" but then I'm baffled about why anyone would risk the devastation that Transition brings to your life.
note I'm not nor have I ever been in the business of deciding who is and who isn't trans, even if I didn't understand something I realized that I lacked a complete picture.
It seems to me that the TS and the TG narratives are completely different, and their differences need to be respected. In places where younger trans* people are talking about things, "transgender" seems to be the catch-all term now, and I've seen folks become controversial after stating that they think there is a difference between body dysphoria and social dysphoria (which I think is the main diff between being TG and TS). But that just seems like a given to me. Of course I'm different than someone who is in a body with the wrong anatomy. Of course that's going to be much harder to cope with.
I know some people might not appreciate me bringing "sex" into this sort of discussion, but it's how I can relate the story of an unhappy pathology that gets co-opted by others to describe their less-than spectacular differentness. I get mad when I see the word "fetish" being used the way it currently is these days. Where are the people who suffer from their proclivities like I do? The ones who take medication to dull their libido, the ones who drink when they find themselves particularly wanting something that was never meant to be theirs? I'm never going to be able to go up to someone and say "hey, I'd like to have this experience with you". I've experienced dissociation because of it, done damage to my body because of it, I've thought myself unlovable scum because of it. My experience is fundamentally different than that of someone who just likes being tied up in bed. They don't know that, and it's something I'm coming to grips with.
What helps me (and gosh do I feel alone in this) is knowing that there are words to differentiate me from them. They're not pretty words, but I'm reclaiming them for myself.
If "transsexual" is falling out of fashion for being "politically incorrect", this is a bad idea to me. There need to be words and labels and communities fir people like Joanna.
-hugs-
I too feel very much the same way Joanna does. I think narratives are interesting. I find that the narrative I use to describe my past is ever-evolving just on a semantic level (semantics do matter, they change the feeling of things in major ways, even if the words mean technically the same thing) but that is a different issue than the trans narrative being talked about here, so I won't digress.
There are many things I don't understand because they just don't match my experience. I would never be able to understand transitioning just cause you felt like it. Is that really a thing? No way on earth I would have transitioned if I never reached being suicidal. I don't feel one way or another about somebody having a different story though, I just don't personally understand it. I don't get why you would do it. There are many things in life I don't understand though and mostly I am thankful for such things. They make the world more vibrant. I wish the politics would just go away, and I think they will eventually because I think most people in their 30s and younger really just don't care about that fight. It's a generational thing for sure.
I do strive for a positive attitude and mostly I have had one post transition, but I fail and fall sometimes. Maybe when I have fixed everything I can physically that will happen even less often. Before I'm post op though, I know I will have down days. Everything is so much better now though, don't get me wrong. Life is beautiful. I also want to say that I always appreciate Jenny's attitude and I find it very uplifting. I do want to see the positive side of being trans more often.
Quote from: pebbles on July 22, 2013, 01:23:48 PM
"which started as my male puberty triggered then got progressively worse over the next 10years, to survive I relied on a number of rather extreme and dangerous coping techniques even then I realized my body couldn't take much more of the abuse I was throwing at it.
You know, I was recently thinking about this kind of practices - because I did essentially the same (I still wonder that I am alive and not handicapped, btw :). So, my theory is that these coping techniques either provide a strong adrenaline boost (extreme and dangerous ones), or dopamine boost (dulling workouts) or testosterone - or maybe everything afore-mentioned. Those doses might be enough to provide a temporary oblivion - namely, by convincing the mind/brain that it is of a male pattern, and so the dysphoria will decrease or go away - once again, temporarily. And is this works, then subconsciously, the brain will seek these experiences again and again, and as the senses will dull, it will require new activities, new degrees of risk and danger, because it wants to survive - even if the body might be destroyed in the process. I see that this always present risk of self-destruction provides additional adrenaline boost, plus it eases possible suicidal tendencies, because death still might happen at any moment and there is no need for direct actions in order to facilitate its coming. I apologise if that all sounds not very comprehensive, but I am neither medic professional, nor psychologist :). I am just trying to look at things from another perspective and use my "first hand" experience and feelings in the process :).
Quote from: Lo on July 22, 2013, 01:26:39 PM
It seems to me that the TS and the TG narratives are completely different, and their differences need to be respected. In places where younger trans* people are talking about things, "transgender" seems to be the catch-all term now, and I've seen folks become controversial after stating that they think there is a difference between body dysphoria and social dysphoria (which I think is the main diff between being TG and TS). But that just seems like a given to me. Of course I'm different than someone who is in a body with the wrong anatomy. Of course that's going to be much harder to cope with.
I know some people might not appreciate me bringing "sex" into this sort of discussion, but it's how I can relate the story of an unhappy pathology that gets co-opted by others to describe their less-than spectacular differentness. I get mad when I see the word "fetish" being used the way it currently is these days. Where are the people who suffer from their proclivities like I do? The ones who take medication to dull their libido, the ones who drink when they find themselves particularly wanting something that was never meant to be theirs? I'm never going to be able to go up to someone and say "hey, I'd like to have this experience with you". I've experienced dissociation because of it, done damage to my body because of it, I've thought myself unlovable scum because of it. My experience is fundamentally different than that of someone who just likes being tied up in bed. They don't know that, and it's something I'm coming to grips with.
What helps me (and gosh do I feel alone in this) is knowing that there are words to differentiate me from them. They're not pretty words, but I'm reclaiming them for myself.
If "transsexual" is falling out of fashion for being "politically incorrect", this is a bad idea to me. There need to be words and labels and communities fir people like Joanna.
-hugs-
I don't like the term transsexual, even though that is where I fall. I personally like that the term trans woman/man seems to be more on the rise and I think it fits TS people perfectly. It makes trans and adjective instead of the noun, which is exactly how I feel it should be used with me. "Trans" informs where I come from and experiences I have had, kind of like race or age or socioeconomic stuff or whatever other adjectives people use. The noun is "woman." That is who I am.
Quote from: Jen on July 22, 2013, 01:56:15 PM
I don't like the term transsexual, even though that is where I fall. I personally like that the term trans woman/man seems to be more on the rise and I think it fits TS people perfectly. It makes trans and adjective instead of the noun, which is exactly how I feel it should be used with me. "Trans" informs where I come from and experiences I have had, kind of like race or age or socioeconomic stuff or whatever other adjectives people use. The noun is "woman." That is who I am.
It is clunky, and I won't admit to knowing what language is needed or not needed for certain trans* people, though I am of the mind that more language will do much more good than harm. Sorry if I said something wrong, I'm still learning about the ins and outs of reclaimed words and words that have no use anymore.
QuoteI would never be able to understand transitioning just cause you felt like it. Is that really a thing? No way on earth I would have transitioned if I never reached being suicidal.
I can only speak for myself here, but I think it's definitely possible. For me, when I had my pregnancy scare, it was the most horrible pit of despair I'd ever fallen into and it was my Big Trans* Wake-Up Call; I might even wager a guess and say it felt worse than when I was entertaining suicide. I hated and feared my body like never before (or since), and if it were actually the real deal and not a false alarm, there's no telling how much worse it would have been for me. I've been suicidal before (once in response to abuse and once in response to depression), so for me, the surgical sterilization I want is 100% to prevent dysphoria like that from happening ever again. A big cornerstone of my physical gender is being incapable of reproducing. I'm more or less "okay" with the way things are now (frustration and social anxiety aside), it's definitely not bad. But I know that it has the
potential to get really ugly, so I'm going to do everything in my power to keep that suicidal dysphoria from happening in the future. It is kind of weird to know that I'm making the conscious, sober, and deliberate choice to do this, though. Right now it's a very strong want more than a need, but I don't want to wait for it to get to be a need.
I think it is interesting the different forms things can take. The way you describe that does help me understand things a lil better.
And obv I don't personally feel trans as a adjective is clunky at all, but I do acknowledge that it only works for a narrow group, but it's the group I belong to, so I like it. People for whom it doesn't work may feel free to use their own terms :).
Quote from: Jen on July 22, 2013, 01:51:03 PM
There are many things I don't understand because they just don't match my experience. I would never be able to understand transitioning just cause you felt like it. Is that really a thing?
this is a tough one. I don't think it's 100% fair. it's not like transitioning is like taking a magic pill. :D
I think anyone who seriously contemplates transition is well aware of the risks and dangers.
I think on one hand saying that a person is transitioning just because they feel like it is not fair, just because they aren't suicidal doesn't mean that their decision isn't being driven by powerful forces. 8)
I have always been completely against medications etc and things like surgery. I believe it says an awful lot for me to consider these kinds of things. it is true, I don't yet fully understand my motivations, but I do recognise that it is something very important for me to address.
I'd also like to add that I never understood why a person would want to go and have facial fillers and botox etc.
Quote from: Jen on July 22, 2013, 01:51:03 PM
There are many things I don't understand because they just don't match my experience. I would never be able to understand transitioning just cause you felt like it. Is that really a thing? No way on earth I would have transitioned if I never reached being suicidal. I don't feel one way or another about somebody having a different story though, I just don't personally understand it. I don't get why you would do it. There are many things in life I don't understand though and mostly I am thankful for such things. They make the world more vibrant. I wish the politics would just go away, and I think they will eventually because I think most people in their 30s and younger really just don't care about that fight. It's a generational thing for sure.
Good question! Yes I think it is a thing, just like people risk their lives climbing ice and snow covered mountains or flying to the moon, we may think (what for?) they are all looking for something. There are some like myself who become disgusted and repulsed by the social expectation for male born children to take up arms and go to exotic places and kill their people and get their own arms and legs blown off and turn into mental cases, you would be amazed at the number of former special ops people who have transitioned because they want no part of any of it anymore and have come to a place where their gender and the associated expectations have become anathema to their soul. I never considered suicide, it is contrary to my spiritual beliefs and solves absolutely nothing, but I did dearly want an entirely new life with a diametrically different role and expectations to fulfill. I wanted dearly to become a new creation physically and spiritually. Jen I think we all come at this from a variety of different directions and I find it refreshing that we are not all cast from the exact same mold which paraphrases part of your last comment of your initial post.
Thanks Shantel. :) I think you and I are both, um, older. :)
I don't know that anybody transitions because they "feel like it". I think the need has to exist at least on some level.
I also don't ID with the term "transsexual". But there are all sorts of experiences of being trans. And I have a maybe less binary view of it than some people.
--Jay
Quote from: jker86 on July 22, 2013, 09:33:45 PM
this is a tough one. I don't think it's 100% fair. it's not like transitioning is like taking a magic pill. :D
I think anyone who seriously contemplates transition is well aware of the risks and dangers.
I think on one hand saying that a person is transitioning just because they feel like it is not fair, just because they aren't suicidal doesn't mean that their decision isn't being driven by powerful forces. 8)
I have always been completely against medications etc and things like surgery. I believe it says an awful lot for me to consider these kinds of things. it is true, I don't yet fully understand my motivations, but I do recognise that it is something very important for me to address.
I'd also like to add that I never understood why a person would want to go and have facial fillers and botox etc.
I was making a very reductionist statement, so I'm sure it isn't fair. I think boiling things down to a probably unfair sentence is usually a sign somebody doesn't understand something, which is true in my case.
I didn't mean that I feel somebody should be suicidal before transitioning
by any means, just that is what it took for me. I wish I didn't wait. And I am familiar with powerful forces pushing you in that direction before you finally get backed against a wall, I experienced them my whole life.
I think what I was asking about was if anybody transitions without feeling much discomfort beforehand?. I would find those stories interesting I think, because it doesn't make that much sense to me and I would like to understand better.
Quote from: aleon515 on July 23, 2013, 12:19:00 PM
Thanks Shantel. :) I think you and I are both, um, older. :)
I don't know that anybody transitions because they "feel like it". I think the need has to exist at least on some level.
I also don't ID with the term "transsexual". But there are all sorts of experiences of being trans. And I have a maybe less binary view of it than some people.
--Jay
Hah Jay, you and I are on the same page and indeed wisdom comes with age, experience and hindsight along with buckets of frustration and tears! What a fine gentelman you have become, and I am just a curmudgeonly androgynous being stuck in non-binary suspension, but even that is better than what it was in my past. ;D
Quote from: Jen on July 23, 2013, 12:35:53 PM
I think what I was asking about was if anybody transitions without feeling much discomfort beforehand?. I would find those stories interesting I think, because it doesn't make that much sense to me and I would like to understand better.
I understand where you're coming from.
I think maybe we each have different ideas of what discomfort is.
some people might feel uncomfortable if there were a pea under the mattress.
some people can sleep on lumpy ground in a field with loud music playing in the next field.
Though, these examples suggest a semblance of happiness for each individual... maybe I need to put it another way.
or maybe, I can introduce another element... yes. another person sleeps in field and makes do with it because he/she doesn't know any different. this persons sleep was always very low quality sleep and they have many health problems as a result. one day they start to wonder if their health problems that they were coping ok with, maybe would go away if they slept in a bed.
it's not a case of feeling great distress in that scenario, more of a low quality of life that the person has gotten used to and realises that there could be a better way.
yes i think that explains one possibility of how some people could be.
at least, that is how it is for me. at the moment.
Quote from: Shantel on July 23, 2013, 09:00:36 AM
Good question! Yes I think it is a thing, just like people risk their lives climbing ice and snow covered mountains or flying to the moon, we may think (what for?) they are all looking for something. There are some like myself who become disgusted and repulsed by the social expectation for male born children to take up arms and go to exotic places and kill their people and get their own arms and legs blown off and turn into mental cases, you would be amazed at the number of former special ops people who have transitioned because they want no part of any of it anymore and have come to a place where their gender and the associated expectations have become anathema to their soul. I never considered suicide, it is contrary to my spiritual beliefs and solves absolutely nothing, but I did dearly want an entirely new life with a diametrically different role and expectations to fulfill. I wanted dearly to become a new creation physically and spiritually. Jen I think we all come at this from a variety of different directions and I find it refreshing that we are not all cast from the exact same mold which paraphrases part of your last comment of your initial post.
Shantel, I had honestly never considered anything like this, thanks for bringing it to the table.
It has certainly opened my eyes to myriad possibilities and I've learnt a lot from it.
I'm for one transitioning because I just feel like it. I can do it so why not.
I do not feel dysphoric by being a man. I will be fine if I don't transition but it will be better if I do.
I recently realized I'm transgender but I don't feel depressed by it, transition is something to aim for. Right now I have far too many other concerns to get depressed over it.
Wow,
I am so new and so extremely pleased about starting out I cant imagine being unhappy about this step, Of course i have little time out as a fulltime female as my body is just beginning to change, but my mind and soul feels so right. I have noticed I have much calmer disposition when dealing with my coleages and look forward to development. I have not had to much negative reaction yet but i still have to go in boy mode for a good part of the day thats the depressing part for me. Jenny I hope to develop a mere portion of your confidence. Love Jerri
Like many other correspondents I did deal with dysphoria & depression and like so many here, find transitioning to be filled with enormously positive experiences. I feel great and profoundly fortunate to be able to transition with love and the other resources I need.
Quote from: Shantel on July 23, 2013, 02:43:23 PM
Hah Jay, you and I are on the same page and indeed wisdom comes with age, experience and hindsight along with buckets of frustration and tears! What a fine gentelman you have become, and I am just a curmudgeonly androgynous being stuck in non-binary suspension, but even that is better than what it was in my past. ;D
I've often thought that when I read your posts-- that you and I are often on the same wavelength even though coming from different sides (if that is what they are--- I'm not convinced) of the gender divide.
Fine gentleman (I wrote gentile man)haha, hmm well....
I think wisdom does come with age, it's a good thing we get SOMETHING!! :)
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on July 24, 2013, 02:40:45 PM
I've often thought that when I read your posts-- that you and I are often on the same wavelength even though coming from different sides (if that is what they are--- I'm not convinced) of the gender divide.
Fine gentleman (I wrote gentile man)haha, hmm well....
I think wisdom does come with age, it's a good thing we get SOMETHING!! :)
--Jay
You bet, hugs for my cool friend Jay! :)
Quote from: JulieR on July 24, 2013, 05:22:29 PM
Joanna, the "D" in GID stands for disorder, not dysphoria. No, dysphoria, dissatisfaction, disgruntlement or any other "D" is required to support a diagnosis of GID. That threw me for a while too, until my therapist informed me otherwise. My GID diagnosis is based on gender euphoria of a sort, I imagine how great it would be to be female, but I don't really horribly hate having a male body.
Even the GID diagnosis draws fire, as if implying a person with trans tendencies is somehow sick or defective. One alternative descriptive term I've heard proposed is "Gender Expression Anxiety Disorder". Even though it is still called "disorder", it comes closer to a descriptive, but not destructive, term for having trans tendencies.
Wow, very interesting. This hadn't occurred to me, though the "euphoria" you mention does sound right also. I generally get anxious about things that I perceive to be completely selfish and that make me happy, suspicious even, so I'm happy-but-not-quite too. But there definitely is that feeling of aspirational desire to... become, I guess. What I have right now, at this very moment, isn't incorrect, but that doesn't mean there can't be something else even more right.
Maybe the other thing that tempers my gender dysphoria is that I don't know what my ideal body would be like, being nongendered inside and all. I don't really know what direction I would go in, even if it were made available to me, beyond the hysto.