I feel like I've been passing and I usually get called maam, but at the Mc Donalds drive through I just got called sir! I have my long hair in a pony, girly sunglasses, earrings, and print t shirt and wearing my bra.
Sometimes I wonder if the maam is just people being polite, then I think maybe its my voice. :'(
I really don't present too femalish, i.e. I wear stupid boot cut jeans, but I usually get gendered female except for the other day where I got sir'd twice. I don't know maybe it was the hat. Or the jacket. But it sucks either way, especially when you're trying to get used to being seen as female. I eventually put on makeup and didn't obscure my breasts so much and that seems to work as I used the women's room and stuff and got hit on and all but still I get sir'd sometimes and it sucks, sucks, sucks.
But yeah it does make me wonder if all the ma'aming is just politeness. I don't think so though as I live in a pretty impolite place.
Rosa the only thing you can do when that happens is pick yourself up dust off and go on with your life. You can't let it destroy your confidence in yourself. :)
Sorry to hear that, Rosa!
If it makes you feel any better I got clocked last night by a dude who pulled up in a car outside of the party I was at and started letting my friends take hits off of his blunt.
I was kind of lingering and he asked me a question when nobody else could hear... "are you a ->-bleeped-<-?".
Blehck. Not a good feeling. I said to him "Well it is true I am a transsexual, yes". Part of me wanted to ask him how he knew but I'm pretty sure I already know the answer and it's not really important because I am already in motion to take care of it.
Luckily he simply gave a nod of approval and drove off. I was still pretty freaked out at that point, but I saw no purpose in lying to him.
I am still waiting for someone to ask if I am a ->-bleeped-<- so I can ask them straight back if I look like a f*ing radio.
Rosie.
Whats strange is that it is usually younger people that clock me, but I pass better with older folks. Also I know having my purse helps.
Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. Im trying to move forward, but at almost 50 I feel time is running out and Im not even on hormones yet.
Just curious, why are you doing "RLE" before having been on hormones for some time? From what I have read, it seems more standard to take HRT for at least half a year or so before "going out" in order to have less worry about "passing"
Quote from: Rosa on August 03, 2013, 12:44:33 PM
I feel like I've been passing and I usually get called maam, but at the Mc Donalds drive through I just got called sir! I have my long hair in a pony, girly sunglasses, earrings, and print t shirt and wearing my bra.
Sometimes I wonder if the maam is just people being polite, then I think maybe its my voice. :'(
Don't let it bother you. I know my voice gives me away plenty; but I continue to work on it. If I listen to it played back I can hear improvements in it; but it's still not good enough to sound feminine to the majority of people I run into.
Quote from: su->-bleeped-<-ime link=topic=145947.msg1195000#msg1195000 date=1375561667
Just curious, why are you doing "RLE" before having been on hormones for some time? From what I have read, it seems more standard to take HRT for at least half a year or so before "going out" in order to have less worry about "passing"
I was going out full-time at least a couple of months before I saw the Doctor handling my hormones for the first time. I don't want to speak for the O.P., but in my case it was a choice - I wanted to present that way and made the choice to do so.
Whenever I get clocked, I tell myself that I'm helping the rest of my transgender brothers and sisters. I'm showing the world what transgender looks like: Intelligent, competent, and proud.
Quote from: suzifrommd on August 03, 2013, 05:32:26 PM
Whenever I get clocked, I tell myself that I'm helping the rest of my transgender brothers and sisters. I'm showing the world what transgender looks like: Intelligent, competent, and proud.
That's very similar to how I feel.
As long as I know & like the person or feel that they are accepting enough to give an honest answer, I might ask what gave me away. But if instead I'm even a little sketched to begin with, I would be happy to see them on their way after being clocked. I would make my own assumptions about what it was.
People can occasionally be really harsh when they know they will never see you again. I'm not inviting any harshness! No way!
In every other circumstance, I do not mind if people know I'm trans. I'm proud, too, and I love representing it with a smile and an open attitude.
I live bordering a bad part of town, and I've had a few experiences with men clocking me on that street. One was last night. Neither was "bad", but both experiences left a sour taste in my mouth. Both times they just asked very blunt rude questions. The first time it was "are you female?" Duh! ;) The kicker was last night though "are you a ->-bleeped-<-?" No, I am a transsexual.
Quote from: Rosa on August 03, 2013, 12:44:33 PM
Sometimes I wonder if the maam is just people being polite, then I think maybe its my voice. :'(
Passing is only possible, if the majority of the aspects people perceive tells them "female". Since you were in the drive through, the only thing was your voice. Thus I bet that your voice was telling them male. I bet when you arrived at the window to get what you wanted, the person was like "oh god, I was totally wrong".
It's possible that he/she has more problems with his/her mistake than you have.
I'm so sorry... but.. on the other hand..
Just because you're trans doesn't mean that you're not entitled to be treated the same as everyone else.
I also really honestly don't see where 'passing' comes into it here. It's just another obstacle or barrier used to protect the comfort zones of the privileged like professional and educated..
Surely the whole point of using the honorific 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' is to show courtesy and respect to people?
How many cisgendered men do you see walking round in bras, ponytails and feminine sunglasses?
I'm sorry but I'm a believer in personal responsibility. If you've made a visible effort to present yourself in a specific gender, then the other person should acknowledge this and use enough emotional intelligence to gender you correctly.
If they can't, well, that's not your problem, is it?
In this situation I'm more inclined to assume that I'm dealing with an idiot and move on.
Quote from: StellaB on August 04, 2013, 05:33:04 AM
I'm so sorry... but.. on the other hand..
Just because you're trans doesn't mean that you're not entitled to be treated the same as everyone else.
I also really honestly don't see where 'passing' comes into it here. It's just another obstacle or barrier used to protect the comfort zones of the privileged like professional and educated..
Surely the whole point of using the honorific 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' is to show courtesy and respect to people?
How many cisgendered men do you see walking round in bras, ponytails and feminine sunglasses?
I'm sorry but I'm a believer in personal responsibility. If you've made a visible effort to present yourself in a specific gender, then the other person should acknowledge this and use enough emotional intelligence to gender you correctly.
If they can't, well, that's not your problem, is it?
In this situation I'm more inclined to assume that I'm dealing with an idiot and move on.
This would be ideal. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world - far from it. Pragmatically, passing is very important. People with deformities seek cosmetic solutions in order to gain better social acceptance, and it's the same for trans people (probably especially for MtF trans women). Social acceptance without instinctive or subconscious "this does not seem right" hesitation is important.
Quote from: su->-bleeped-<-ime link=topic=145947.msg1195512#msg1195512 date=1375612856
This would be ideal. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world - far from it. Pragmatically, passing is very important. People with deformities seek cosmetic solutions in order to gain better social acceptance, and it's the same for trans people (probably especially for MtF trans women). Social acceptance without instinctive or subconscious "this does not seem right" hesitation is important.
I know this is a touchy subject as we are definitely not all equal in this area, either in terms of the features nature gifted us with or in terms of our ability to do something about it if we start with a lot of handicaps.
Being one of the handicapped to start with category, I just couldn't see myself transitioning with the face I had, which, on top of a 6'1" body, simply screamed male at anyone who looked at me and no amount of ponytails, bras or feminine sunglasses were going to change that perception. Based on that, I agree completely with Su->-bleeped-<-ime.
So, I did FFS which costs quite a lot but not as much as many people think, especially in South America and Thailand and, because of this, today, I mostly pass very well, haven't been sir'ed once in the last year when presenting female and on the contrary, am often "Madamed" when presenting in male dress. I am sure there are questions at times, especially if people notice my hands, but, when dress is included, the overall balance is feminine enough for any doubters to keep it to themselves.
What that has done for my confidence, and happiness, is beyond belief. At a very personal level, I am also just far more comfortable with the face I see looking back at me in the mirror but then, I really hated everything about my face before FFS, to such an extent that I wouldn't even let people take photos of me.
I am also convinced that my acceptably feminine appearance played a key role in my employers decision to support my transition on the job. If I had looked like a "man in a dress" it would have been much harder, if not to say impossible as I would have been perceived as a liability for the business. That this is unfair, unjust, I can only agree but, like lot's of the other infinite number of injustices that exist on this planet, that is the reality of the situation.
It is partly because of this reality that I can't encourage the younger people here enough to work on their employability before rushing off to transition. When you have real skills you have two real things going for you, first just the fact that your skills are good enough for people to attach less importance to other things, second you will most likely have the means to pay for getting some of the things you need and/or want for your transition, done.
Against that, I have no problem saying I am transgender and like others here and without being "in your face" about it, I'm more and more proud of being who I am.
Bises
Donna
You got read, it happens. It can happen to anyone no matter how well they pass.
Take a moment, grit your teeth; then forget about it and move on with your life.
How they chose to address you says more about them, than it does about you!
Quote from: su->-bleeped-<-ime link=topic=145947.msg1#msg1 date=1375561667
Just curious, why are you doing "RLE" before having been on hormones for some time? From what I have read, it seems more standard to take HRT for at least half a year or so before "going out" in order to have less worry about "passing"
I've had limited exposure to testosterone due to my kleinfelters and I don't think my face is that masculine. I slowly transitioned and when a passed to a clinic doctor during a consultation I figured that I was ready.
Quote from: Rosa on August 04, 2013, 09:41:59 AM
I've had limited exposure to testosterone due to my kleinfelters and I don't think my face is that masculine. I slowly transitioned and when a passed to a clinic doctor during a consultation I figured that I was ready.
Quote from: su->-bleeped-<-ime link=topic=145947.msg1195000#msg1195000 date=1375561667
Just curious, why are you doing "RLE" before having been on hormones for some time? From what I have read, it seems more standard to take HRT for at least half a year or so before "going out" in order to have less worry about "passing"
Here in Germany that's not possible. You have to have some RLE before you can even be considered for HRT.
Quote from: Donna Elvira on August 04, 2013, 06:11:26 AM
It is partly because of this reality that I can't encourage the younger people here enough to work on their employability before rushing off to transition.
I entirely agree here.
QuoteAgainst that, I have no problem saying I am transgender and like others here and without being "in your face" about it, I'm more and more proud of being who I am.
I don't see it as necessarily being 'in your face' as you put it.
Transition by its very nature is an experience by which most if not all of us have to not just confront certain issues but also decide how we are going to confront them.
We may not all be on the same or equal footing when it comes to passing but I'm also a believer in taking responsibility for one's transition and part of that responsibility is to weigh up the different situations we find ourselves in and to go for the best possible option which minimizes the impact both for ourselves and for other people.
There are times when many of us will be misgendered, even despite our best efforts because all it takes is one gesture, a look, or even the wrong inflection and someone will pick up on this.
I'd contend that most misgenderings are unintentional where the incongruity temporarily throws someone off balance and quite often correcting them while acknowledging the mistake is much better than walking away without saying anything and torturing yourself over your appearance and how other people perceive you.
My philosophy here of course is taking the path of least resistance. While I see no reason to torture yourself over how someone has responded to you I also see no reason for it to turn into a conflict situation.
One time at the Dollar Store the cashier called me ma'am then quickly and profusely appologized and kept calling me sir. I was so embarrassed that I just hurried out. I should have just said "you were right the first time." I have also had the opposite happen.
Quote from: StellaB on August 04, 2013, 03:57:43 PM
I entirely agree here.
I don't see it as necessarily being 'in your face' as you put it.
Transition by its very nature is an experience by which most if not all of us have to not just confront certain issues but also decide how we are going to confront them.
We may not all be on the same or equal footing when it comes to passing but I'm also a believer in taking responsibility for one's transition and part of that responsibility is to weigh up the different situations we find ourselves in and to go for the best possible option which minimizes the impact both for ourselves and for other people.
There are times when many of us will be misgendered, even despite our best efforts because all it takes is one gesture, a look, or even the wrong inflection and someone will pick up on this.
I'd contend that most misgenderings are unintentional where the incongruity temporarily throws someone off balance and quite often correcting them while acknowledging the mistake is much better than walking away without saying anything and torturing yourself over your appearance and how other people perceive you.
My philosophy here of course is taking the path of least resistance. While I see no reason to torture yourself over how someone has responded to you I also see no reason for it to turn into a conflict situation.
Stella,
I think we are saying very much the same thing, just using slightly different words. The phrase "My philosophy here of course is taking the path of least resistance" could be taken straight out of my own book. That is what I meant by no longer having any difficulty saying I am trans (Just as well as I'll be shortly telling the 1900 employees of the company I work for...) but neither do I go around brandishing this in people's face and am very happy to live my life as discreetly as possible.
Take care
Donna
Quote from: Donna Elvira on August 04, 2013, 04:54:35 PM
Stella,
I think we are saying very much the same thing, just using slightly different words. The phrase "My philosophy here of course is taking the path of least resistance" could be taken straight out of my own book. That is what I meant by no longer having any difficulty saying I am trans (Just as well as I'll be shortly telling the 1900 employees of the company I work for...) but neither do I go around brandishing this in people's face and am very happy to live my life as discreetly as possible.
Take care
Donna
Hi Donna
I didn't think you did and yes we're on the same page pretty much.
However I wish you luck with the 1900 employees.. I'd be having kittens.
Stella
Quote from: PiaBianca on August 04, 2013, 11:40:40 AM
Here in Germany that's not possible. You have to have some RLE before you can even be considered for HRT.
Actually that is much more dependent on your insurance company and your therapist than anything else. It is not a prerequisite per se...
I wouldnt feel bad about it. In my before time when i didn't understand my own personal trans issues were and I worked in food service I would occasionally encounter someone who gave me mixed gender signals (it was a pizza joint so we phone calls then pick ups) When i was conscious of what was happening I would avoid using sir and ma'am if could not nail down the voice, that way i did not do anything to embarrass them. Of course, if you have ever worked in food, its brutal and soul sucking, so after a long day your brain could be on auto-pilot so you will pretty much respond to the first key thing you hear. So even if the person heard your voice and were confused upon seeing you, im sure they probably didnt even notice since they had 100 more orders and screaming children behind them! So don't take it personal, and as everyone else says, simply go about your business. When i was younger and hadn't even began to acknowledge with my own dysphoria issues I would be mistaken for a girl on the phone (and to this day i still do not know why) at the restaurant. That would certainly anger me, and in a way that it would take years to fully understand why. Its odd, when you want to be treated one way, you get the opposite, and when you change to the way you were being acknowledged, it all changes back! Such is life i guess, so as long as you are happy I say do not be discouraged!
Thanks all for the encouragement. I think I'm doing fine and making progress then there are days I break down and think what the H am I doing.