Hello all,
Here's the deal. I generally avoid public restrooms. Period. I've used the men's rooms a few times, usually at bars because a) I needed to go badly and b) I was just tipsy enough to no longer be apprehensive. Otherwise, I hunt out unisex facilities or really deserted restrooms.
Next week, though, I'm headed on a road trip (for work) with my boss. A couple days of driving, a couple days spent at a work site. My boss knows I'm trans and is great about it, but to the rest of the world I'm pretty stealth as I no longer appear or sound remotely female. So, I'll need to get over my fear of the men's room like...yesterday.
Here's my biggest fear: I haven't had much luck with STPs and have no confidence using them. Last thing I need on a road trip is to have an 'accident' lol. So I sit, and then I'm super paranoid about people noticing my feet are pointing the wrong way. This sounds ridiculous even as I type it, but there it is.
Please folks, tell me I'm being silly and that no one cares! If the fear really is irrational I think I can deal...
On the bright side, considering I won't really have a choice, this will be one of those great opportunities to face this issue once and for all, since I won't really have a choice.
You're being silly and no one cares! :D
I've used the men's room and no one notices if you sit to pee, they'll probably just think you're pinching a loaf. If you're worried they can hear you pee, throw a wad of toilet paper in first and then pee.
Or maybe "My wife tells me I have bad aim"
"I have a piercing and it kind of screws everything up"
"Why the hell were you listening, anyway?"
Quote from: ford on August 07, 2013, 08:51:39 PM
Here's the deal. I generally avoid public restrooms. Period. I've used the men's rooms a few times, usually at bars because a) I needed to go badly and b) I was just tipsy enough to no longer be apprehensive. Otherwise, I hunt out unisex facilities or really deserted restrooms.
The rule is don't talk, don't look, and don't wash your hands. Okay don't know about that last one. But seriously I was drunk and made the mistake of talking to some guy in the restroom and I almost got beat up. And even if a guy thought something was amiss, he would never admit it. Ever.
I do the same thing though. I live in Philly so there are a lot of unisex restrooms. Not always however. Sometimes I have to go though and I simply can not use the men's room. I don't wear dresses but I do wear skinny jeans and a cute, snug top usually and there is no way my dress could be confused for anything other then pretty feminine attire.
But I'm always worried someone will say something. I'm petrified. One time it was really crowded and this 16 year old was staring at me and didn't say anything I don't what she thought. That was the first time I ever used the women's room so now I have a complex. No one else stared though. I worry about getting the crap beaten out of me. I lost to girls at arm wrestling pre-HRT. I imagine I'm even weaker now.
I understand your concern. I am the same way, I don't bother with STP's
should for some crazy reason, a dude would break the dude code and even talk to you in a bathroom (whats more.. ask about your urination habits) just tell them you have a prince albert piercing, and then ask if they wanna take a picture or something. haha.
also, do the toilet paper thing, putting a big wad into the toilet first.
Quote from: CaseyB on August 07, 2013, 09:05:56 PM
I was born physically male and I've presented as male my entire life. I've always sat down to pee in public washrooms, LH is right, nobody cares. I always felt people would think my feet were facing the wrong way if I stood up to pee in the stall, like why wasn't I using the urinal like normal people, so I sat down. Interesting that you have the opposite concern.
Same thing for me. I never really cared what somebody thought. Now that being said I understand where the OP is coming from as I really try to avoid the ladies room if I can, but I'm trying to get over that - but it seems like the ladies room can be a more "social experience" than the men's room. :)
Quote from: Soren on August 07, 2013, 09:04:08 PM
Or maybe "My wife tells me I have bad aim"
"I have a piercing and it kind of screws everything up"
"Why the hell were you listening, anyway?"
good ones!
Try to let a really gigantic fart go, grunt a lot, and moan "I am the master of my domain," and the bathroom will clear out immediately.
Quote from: Jamie D on August 07, 2013, 09:43:50 PM
Try to let a really gigantic fart go, grunt a lot, and moan "I am the master of my domain," and the bathroom will clear out immediately.
or the good ole' austin powers "WHO, DOES, NUMBER TWO, WORK, FOR!!?"
Oh my god, these are great! Keep em coming.
I think my lesson here is that I need to lighten up, hehe. That's what I was hoping...
My brother is cis and he always sits to pee. That said though, he is terrified of bathrooms because he is afraid of homophobia.
I can't use STPs at all so I always sit. I've noticed that sometimes when I sit in a stall next to a guy, he will just sit there in silence. So, I presume it's normal for guys to feel nervous about someone hearing them crap. I just sit there in silence too and wait for the other guy to start washing his hands/leave.
i am so new to my transition and have not had this problem yet though i have thought about it.
i feel like if someone were to address to me, why are you sitting and peeing, i would just reply, 'cuz i thought i was gonna take a dump' or soemthing along those lines. you can't argue with that.
butt he other suggestions are just as good xD
I'll STP at home but like you, I too have the fear that I'll piss down my leg using one in public so I cop a squat. I usually just sit there until the bathroom is empty if there is only one or two guys in there too. If it's a heavy traffic bathroom I've faked "courtesy flushes" or I'll sit at the front of the seat so my stream hits the side of the bowl instead of loudly breaking the water in the center.
You said you pass completely now so you really have nothing to worry about going in/out of the bathroom. Nobody is going to bother you.
casey@ yeah that is really creepy, but you never know
I suppose i am just not the sort of person to just walk off, even if the situation is beyond awkward XD
I know what you mean; I've been using the men's since last year and I get nervous every single time - but I just have to push through those nerves and do what I've gotta do.
A couple of points that might help:
- Most guys are completely oblivious about what other people are doing around them, especially in toilets: they're phobic about interpersonal interactions in a space where they get their privates out in front of strangers. In all honesty, I think it's our own internalised fear as transguys (and having been raised using women's toilets, where everyone stares at everyone else) that makes us feel self-conscious.
- I'm married to a cisguy who sits to pee all the time, because he just likes to relax. He also doesn't like peeing in front of strangers, so he'll only ever use a cubicle out in public (if one isn't available, he'll wait until he gets home to use the toilet). As others have indicated, he certainly isn't alone in doing this.
- If someone were to peek under the stall door to look at my feet, or mention to me when I leave the cubicle that they looked under the door and saw my feet pointing the 'wrong' way... I'd call Security. That's messed-up behaviour and it is not appropriate for anyone to invade another person's privacy like that.
- I've found that my pee sounds more like that of a (horse-peeing) natal male if I stand up & hover over the bowl whilst doing it, rather than sitting down.
- I often feel self-conscious when peeing, but I have a little trick I use that makes me feel a heck of a lot better if I'm worried about somebody having heard me pee: after I've finished, I lift the seat up. Then to anyone entering the cubicle after me it looks like I must've stood to pee like a natal male, and it helps to dispel any doubts they might have. ;D
- I know there's this thing about not washing your hands, but I'm a bit germ-phobic so I always wash my hands. Plenty of guys do. I just don't bother to dry them afterwards because I want to get out of the men's room as quickly & efficiently as possible.
Quote from: Jamie D on August 07, 2013, 09:43:50 PM
Try to let a really gigantic fart go, grunt a lot, and moan "I am the master of my domain," and the bathroom will clear out immediately.
^_____^ funny
There is no way a guy would question you about your toilet habits. Loads of men use the stalls and nobody talks to a stranger ever ever ever, about their peeing habits!
That said, as a MTF I have the same worries. :-/
I have been using the men's for over a year all the time at school and other public restrooms. I always sit donot have confidence to use a stp. I have never that I know of been looked at or questioned about my feet direction or anything else. Guys are in there to do there business and get out very little talking. I do try to use them when there is no one and few other in there. I have tried to sit so that there is not a direct stream down but don't always do that. I sure want to get so I can use a stp. I was in a restroom yesterday that had solid walls on each side of the urinals that came out about 3ft so I think in those situations I could use a stp.
Really think this is all a head game. (I mean I know there are cases where FTMs are beat up but I am guessing these are really low and that we might be beat up more in women's bathrooms-- "hey get out of here you pervert!" bang with purses). So 99% of the problem is this feeling that everyone is watching us. I started using the men's room when I was passing about 10-15% of the time. NO one has ever said anything to me. I feel a bit odd but is becoming more natural I guess. I kind of have to work myself up to this a bit sometimes. I started in really liberal establishments like Whole Foods (aka My Whole Paycheck), btw. I actually think we are safer in the men's room for the most part. (I don't go to bars much less gay ones.)
Most people are in their own little world and don't give a darn what we are doing. I really think people are much more into their own thing, than people imagine.
--Jay
When I go into the mens room I stand at the toilet like I'm standing to pee if guys are in there, and when they leave I just sit.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on August 08, 2013, 06:11:27 AM
after I've finished, I lift the seat up. Then to anyone entering the cubicle after me it looks like I must've stood to pee like a natal male, and it helps to dispel any doubts they might have.
lol, I do the same thing. I've also notice that some of guys don't flush after they pee. Anyone else notice that after going into a stall?
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 08, 2013, 04:47:22 PM
When I go into the mens room I stand at the toilet like I'm standing to pee if guys are in there, and when they leave I just sit.
lol, I do the same thing. I've also notice that some of guys don't flush after they pee. Anyone else notice that after going into a stall?
YES! I don't know if they think they are saving water or what, but I am flushing before I use the toilet myself, I don't want some strangers pee splashing up on me
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 08, 2013, 04:47:22 PM
lol, I do the same thing. I've also notice that some of guys don't flush after they pee. Anyone else notice that after going into a stall?
if its yellow, let it mellow. haha
but yes I have noticed this as well. I do, do this to save water at home though.
Honestly, the vast majority of males are only concerned about their own reason for being there; they are not typically on a situational awareness level to concern themselves with the bathroom habits of other men. That is just not something many of them are into. It's a breach of the assumed male etiquette, actually.
So that out of the way... one thing I do is to flush while I'm handling my business (hey you know, the anatomy makes a different sound and that takes care of that problem 100%) and that's a very common practice for most men (even women) who are "pee-shy". And there are many reasons why cis guys sit to pee (or uh... other purposes) and it is absolutely not uncommon enough to draw untoward attention in and of itself. Not every cis guy has a python or a correctly placed urethra come to that (those unfortunate guys have to sit too). Otherwise, they just prefer to or they're just used to it, or they're insecure about their size or whatever the hell else it is. There are very many reasons why they also sit. 98% really don't care. I'm leaving 2% for the perverts... those would be the only ones who'd be snooping for the feet placement and such.
Now, the line of sight rule... the most important. You take a sweep of your eyes to get the lay of the land, lock onto the target and go straight there. If there's a wait, you fix your attention on anything other than the other guys in there. Anything else, ceiling, floor, walls, graffiti, sink fixtures, whatever. It's just the common courtesy. Avoid direct eye contact, no staring and absolutely no peeking at junk (although I'm sure that's common-knowledge, still good to mention it anyway).
Talking? That is not strictly a rule, but is a strong suggestion. In example, if you're directly addressed and you say nothing, you can be read as an ->-bleeped-<- or your silence could also be read as hostility and either can present a problem you don't want. Or you know, sometimes you get asked to pass a roll or something. So in those circumstances it's appropriate. Otherwise, silence is golden.
I'd wish you good luck but you really won't need that. I'd been using the men's well prior to T and never had a problem (even packed in there like sardines once and with a lot of bull->-bleeped-<-ting going on all around; perfectly fine). Just act casual and try not to exude nervousness. You'll be fine.
What if you happen to randomly be in the restroom at the same time as someone who knows that you are trans? I feel like they might be more aware of the fact you always go to a stall and sit, and it may stand out to them because of it.
I know guys do not go to the restroom together almost as a rule, but it could happen by coincidence at work or school or around friends. I'm not worried about strangers dwelling on whatever I am doing in the bathroom, but I worry at some point it may emphasize the difference between me and a cis-male to anyone who knows
^ Been in the men's with my step dad and his friend at the same time before (coincidental; was at a party venue). After the BSing/small talk, they went to the urinals and I went to the stall. And you know what? It wasn't an issue. Nobody said a word, looked or otherwise acknowledged it at all. Same as the previously mentioned, packed like sardines night.
And not necessarily. Sure, they don't link arms and skip off together. But they do use the same men's room at the same time. It's not weird (or shouldn't be). Its just business.
Really, nobody cares. It should not matter. It is what it is. Why stress about it? Those cis guys who do sit down and therefore always (or usually always) use the stall, have their family and friends knowing it (kind of hard to conceal the lack of sound if no other evidence, really) and they obviously don't seem to have problems or they wouldn't continue to do it if its because of choice or preference and not actually having to (and some cis guys do have too, as established already). It really shouldn't matter. But that's me.
If your friends are your friends they won't talk or else give you any crap about it. People who know are going to know, no matter if you master the STP or not. Its just one of the things we have to deal with. You do have a choice though, if you're going to allow it to chew on you forever or if you're going to not let it. That's purely your perspective, can't really help you there. That's all you.
I find one of the biggest reliefs... is to stop caring so critically much about what people think. Its kind of a waste of time, you know what I mean? I understand it and it gets to me sometimes as well (of course), but most often these days I just don't let myself think about it and it becomes a non-issue right then and there. Its just the dysphoria talking with that stuff. You're making it into a much bigger thing than it really is to others. Truly.
Quote from: CaseyB on August 08, 2013, 06:11:34 PM
YES! I don't know if they think they are saving water or what, but I am flushing before I use the toilet myself, I don't want some strangers pee splashing up on me
Same here. Though, I don't always flush when I see that, I just want to go fast before someone comes in and I can't go.
Quote from: Elijah on August 08, 2013, 08:59:57 PM
if its yellow, let it mellow. haha
but yes I have noticed this as well. I do, do this to save water at home though.
Same here.