Hey all :), Maka here with a curious question that I'm sure we've all heard or thought about before.
I've heard this is often asked by therapists, and I was curious to see what all of your different answers were.
So, to you, what does it mean to be a woman? And what does it mean to be trans?
If someone were to ask you what it is that makes you these things, what would you say back?
Thanks again! :D
With Passion, Maka
Definitions are the curse of therapy.
I know.
In my first sessions that sort of question threw me because it made no sense to me.
I'm not trans anything. Something can be trans Atlantic, transmogrified whatever, but I'm not trans gender, sex anything. I identify gender wise as female. The simple reason being I am. I need to offer no other explanation. When I finally understood the question I told them it was a stupid question.
It sounds like a trick question. I wouldn't answer it. That's how I would respond. But then again I don't go to a therpaist and if one had the balls to tell me I am not trans I would laugh in their face. I know exactly who I am. Then I would say you tell me what it is to be a woman or man, and no platitudes.
However,I can tell you what being trans feels like: it feels like your own body has betrayed you and that something went terribly wrong once upon a time and that all you can do is deal with it. Of course, after I turned 12 or so and saw a program on transsexuals and could finally put a word to my feelings instead of thinking vague things about being XXY or something else but never having enough info to understand why I was so alone. So I think there is a def loneliness component to being trans, at least for those trans women who have known about their condition forever.
Being a woman is harder to answer if you have only been on HRT for about six months like me. I don't think there is one specific "feel like a woman" or other easy answer. But really I like Cindy's answer I am female not trans female. Well I guess I am trans female but I prefer to leave the modifier off. I know this one girl I know idetifies as trans and I was like "you don't identify as a woman?" And she was like no. So I don't know. If I had to answer in order to get hormones I would sayto me a woman is a sweet, sensitive person who cares deeply about other people and wants to make the world a better place for everyone. But why can't a man be that? So these questions are just tricky.
I am going a bit rude here but if that is a male therapist, who is asking this question (what it means to be a woman), You would rather reply with a counterquestion "And what do You think? And who You are to judge my replies against Your own way of thinking, which is, pardon me, male? And even if I answered this, most of that would make no sense to You anyway, because You are, like I said, male".
I got this one asked by my therapist and was still inexperienced and naive then - now I am much more confident in myself and I wont allow some random guy to trample with his ideas "what being a woman means" on my sweet and emotional replies.
Yeah :)
There is no right or wrong way to answer this question. Every woman is unique and her view of what it means to be herself is going to be different.
Now what it means to me is I'm a kind compassionate person who wants to make everybody around her feel better about themselves. I'm a woman who wants to aways help and be there for her family and friends.
As far as what it means to be trans it just means I'm changing from a person that hated herself and the world to a woman that loves herself and wants to make the world a better place than it was before she was born. ;)
Slippery slope. And I really dislike labels.
For the being a woman question: it means simply being me.
For the trans question: being born in a body that doesn't match my brain's gender.
Keep your answer short, straight, and to the point... especially with therapists. Don't embellish. Just answer the questions as directly as possible.
Definitely no right or wrong. They want to see how you think and perceive yourself, the world, and your place in it.
If someone asked me that question about begin a woman I would give them a face like this
:/ :S
And would describe my day in tedious detail
wake up get dressed talk with my flatmate Caroline about her party later. Ride my bike to my mums house, Dredging the pond for her and pulling out the weeds she gives me home grown vegetables I Shower, Riding into town, I Buy strawberries, A creepy man in line gropes my shoulder sniffs my hair then says "Your sexy, I wanna F you." I run away, visit my old work friends at the store I used to work at, They complain because the two men who work there have bunked off work and they are short staffed I help out with tidying the store I tell them what happened to me, We all agree that men are the ->-bleeped-<- half of the species. They offer to buy me a drink but I'm already going to Caroline's party, I ride home eat my strawberries, goto party, try to chat with Caroline but I can't hear anything I dance abit an Army guy and his "Wingman" hit on me and Caroline, I think he's a twit and a blowhard and am not at all interested, I Get bored, go home, Read Webcomics, goto bed.
That's what it is to be a twenty-something woman on a Saturday.
As for what it is to be Trans I guess I would give her the quick summary of the Dysphoria wars, How it felt like my body was rotting and I was stuck inside it. Self harm to wash away the ache, Starvation to break my puberty, Plucking my facial hairs one by one, Attacking my genitals, Attempting suicide, FUN TIMES!!!
Quote from: Makalii on August 10, 2013, 12:16:58 PM
So, to you, what does it mean to be a woman?
Interesting question!
A simple fact is that a woman can be a mother or a wife. No trans can be a biological mother. Very few trans can be a mother. A lot of trans are not wife.
To me, it can mean having sex as a woman or presenting myself as a woman. Performing woman in public has been as much thrilling as acrobatics, especially when wearing 5-inch high heel sandals.
barbie~~
Quote from: Cindy on August 10, 2013, 12:35:44 PMI told them it was a stupid question.
Yep, pretty much what Cindy said. I think those would be the entirely most clueless questions I had ever been asked.
Rosie.
I personally don't see it as a stupid question as long as it is geared for introspection and not just judgement. Transitioning is a big step especially HRT and SRS and I think it's natural for a therapist to help the client explore their personal identity.
IMO, gender is more complicated than merely the structures in our brain that make us cis- or transgender. Gender also involves how you see yourself, how people treat you, how you present yourself, and yes, your physical body.
That's why I see myself as becoming a woman, rather than having been a woman all along in a male body.
What does it mean to be trans?
That's much, much easier:
We all have a structure in our brains that tells us what gender our brain expects us to be. For most of us, that gender matches our physical sex. For transgender people, it does not.
Quote from: Rosa on August 10, 2013, 03:21:41 PM
I personally don't see it as a stupid question as long as it is geared for introspection and not just judgement. Transitioning is a big step especially HRT and SRS and I think it's natural for a therapist to help the client explore their personal identity.
Agree totally with the above. I don't see it as a stupid question either as you can't just say 'I identify genderwise as female" and not have some idea what that actually means to you. If you stay at that level it is a totally empty answer unless of course saying someone is "female" is considered a sufficiently self supporting reply. However to buy into that, you would have to accept that all people whose gender is categorized as female (we are by the way talking about categorizations here) are identical which, I think/hope we all agree doesn't hold water. At minimum, most of us seem to think that identifying as female brings some requirements such as having long hair, not having a beard, having soft skin, breasts etc etc. My instinct tells me that for each one of us there are lots of other associations too and while those associations may be no one's business but our own, just reading the posts on this forum provides enough material to write up a whole list of them.
I can however understand that there might be some defensiveness about getting into an exchange with a therapist on this subject, especially if that person is in a gatekeeper role. In such a case, there will always be a legitimate fear that "anything you say may be held in evidence against you". :)
In my own case, where I have a therapist who is in a support role who with no gatekeeping function I had no difficulty discussing the subject and some of the things I associate with being a woman are written up in a text I posted here back in April. For me it was a very useful exercice as it helped me to understand both why I felt the need to transition and my vision of what a successful transition would look like.
My two cents worth and those who are paid up subscribers can find my answer to the question here: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,139296.msg1126367.html#msg1126367
It's in the "only for us" section because for me it is a very personal subject and I don't want people who are just anyone looking at this site to be able to see it.
Hugs.
Donna
The question, it might be stupid, it might not be stupid, but, it is likely unanswerable.
How the hell should I know? I have always been me, they might as well ask me what it is to be me.
I'd be inclined to ask a guy if asked by a guy, 'how do you know you are a guy?'. No really, why can't he be a woman and just unaware he isn't a man?.
I have never been a dog or a cat or a martian. I've been a human for 51 years though, I think I am quite knowledgeable there. I've been a spouse for decades, and a parent.
But asking me what it means to be a woman? What's the point of asking a question with no wrong answer?
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 11, 2013, 12:23:40 PM
The question, it might be stupid, it might not be stupid, but, it is likely unanswerable.
How the hell should I know? I have always been me, they might as well ask me what it is to be me.
I'd be inclined to ask a guy if asked by a guy, 'how do you know you are a guy?'. No really, why can't he be a woman and just unaware he isn't a man?.
I have never been a dog or a cat or a martian. I've been a human for 51 years though, I think I am quite knowledgeable there. I've been a spouse for decades, and a parent.
But asking me what it means to be a woman? What's the point of asking a question with no wrong answer?
Lesley,
The question asked was what "being a woman" MEANT to you ie. what images come to your mind when you think about being a woman. I really find it pretty well impossible to believe that we haven't all given some thought to this subject one day or another. Even when living as a man I had given thought to the subject of what "being a man" meant ie. the representations that went with those words.
I also agree that there is no wrong answer which is why I am suprised that there is so much defensiveness when this subject, which could easily be discussed over a meal or a drink with friends, comes up. It is actually a very simple and straightforward question and, to use your own example, if I asked you what you associated with being a dog or a cat, plenty of images would also come to your mind. eg. dogs are faithful, playful, dependable, noisy, dirty.... cats are sensual, cute, clean, independent, sneaky...
Take care.
Donna
Being a woman, being allowed to be all the things that being a man isn't :)
Sadly some things I will not have the pleasure of. Time and some other details, well they are sort of locked out for me.
Being trans means being assigned the wrong sex at birth, I suppose. Being a woman is a lot fuzzier. Women come in all shapes and sizes. I don't think there is a single trait that all women share that no man also shares. There really isn't an answer for that question. Unless your therapist is an idiot, he/she isn't looking for a right answer, but just trying to get you to think.
Remember any decent therapist who asks a question like this is not looking for the "right" answer. They're looking for YOUR answer. My advice would be to use it as an oppurtunity to reflect. Then answer it as personally and truthfully you can.
Quote from: iiii on August 11, 2013, 01:42:50 PM
Woman = appearance has more female secondary sex characteristics than male ones, and thus automatically register as female by strangers, and that's about it.
trans = being unhappy with ones birth sex, and having a desire to change it.
oh please no - this definition only goes by external appearances and defines a womon by the outside
to me a womon is self declared - gender is internal - it is what is in your mind being a womon is what defines you and your life many early trans men can be mistaken as womyn and they would certainly object to you definition as being womyn. womyn are whatever they choose to be in their lives.
I can certainly go along with your definition of trans though very succinct.
I know this much, I am a W O M A N.
I am not saying a person can't use womyn, but it comes off sounding like the person has personal internal issues. Almost sounds like me, but I accept that I suffer from overt mysandry.
Too many years of linguistics I suppose. I know the history of the word.
Now if you really want to get upset, try reading the history of wife and husband :)
To be a woman is simply to be me. I know of no other way to describe it.
As far as being 'trans', many years ago (1974/75, post-op) I was working with a hospital which was establishing a "gender clinic". They asked me to submit some questions that would help them sort out which patients are transsexual and which have other 'conditions'. The best one I came up with was:
"If you were going to live the rest of your life on a deserted island and never see another human being, would you still want to go through the expense and pain of surgery?"
I suggested an emphatic "Yes!" was an indication of a transsexual (or at least Type VI by the Benjamin scale) because it isn't about the world, it isn't about society, it is about a person's own mind and body.
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 11, 2013, 05:05:10 PM
I know this much, I am a W O M A N.
I am not saying a person can't use womyn, but it comes off sounding like the person has personal internal issues. Almost sounds like me, but I accept that I suffer from overt mysandry.
Too many years of linguistics I suppose. I know the history of the word.
Now if you really want to get upset, try reading the history of wife and husband :)
fine you pick your identity let me pick mine I know the history of my words, I actually use language fairly carefully - and I make no bones abut the fact that I have been heavily abused by men and I in no way want to associate with any cis straight men at all unless they are the husbands of my friends AND accompanied by them. If you wish to describe me as either a sufferer of PTSD OR a misandrist pick whichever you desire my therapist chooses the former associating it with all the abuse and the hate crimes and says it is self defense. She says I deserve to do whatever I need to protect myself.
I can't remember my current therapist or psychiatrist asking me these questions. And I had surprisingly short and simple answers for the questions they actually did ask. I think a good therapist only wants you to be honest, and help with your problems.
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 11, 2013, 05:05:10 PM
I know this much, I am a W O M A N.
I am not saying a person can't use womyn, but it comes off sounding like the person has personal internal issues. Almost sounds like me, but I accept that I suffer from overt mysandry.
Too many years of linguistics I suppose. I know the history of the word.
Now if you really want to get upset, try reading the history of wife and husband :)
For clarification, "womon" and "womyn" are alternate feminist spellings of "woman" and "women," respectively. The idea is to de-link the words from the root word "man' and to signify female independence.
However, the discriminatory "womyn-born-womyn" philosophy is not an acceptable discussion topic here.
I believe it is a good question to ask ourselves because it makes us think more deeply about who we are. When considering transitioning and moving forward with such a path, it makes sense for us to have some idea this. The answer to the question has little to do with what being a woman is like, but what you think being a woman is like and why it's important to you is very relevant.
Having said that, this is such a hard question to answer. I can't offer anything other than my individual view that is far from a definition of womanhood as it would fail to meet the criteria. To me, I associated being a women with all the things I desired to be. It was the feminine social roles and interactions, the feminine looks and fashion, being the girlfriend and one day wife, and just the fun of getting to be girly. Besides that, there was always an inherent desire to "join the club" and be a girl as though there wasn't a choice for me (well always meaning since I was 10 or so). I belonged in the girl camp and nothing I could do could change that. Despite some of my masculine interests, which I do in fact love, I have always associate more with women in society. Even while watching a rock band, I loved when there would be a female musician. It's like yeah one of us infiltrating this boys camp. It was like a connection I had with other girls even if it didn't make sense for me to make the connection. So even when I did partake in masculine things, I was just a woman indulging in a masculine hobby. Being a women is being me. It's a weird thing to say, but that is what it means to me. I don't have a desire to be a caricature or stereotype, but I do love many aspects of femininity and they describe the traditional view of womanhood even though it is inaccurate. I know who I am and what I want out of life. That's enough for me. What it means to be trans or a woman? It differs as everyone's experience is different, but I know how I am and can only tell you my story.
There is no real answer to this question that will be similar and or shared by all. If you look at gender beyond birth sex, things become much more complicated. That's the point and the reason gender therapists investigate this. It's used as a tool to help discover one's identity or learn more about it. If it is used by the wrong therapist, it can be misused for gatekeeping purposes, but the question itself isn't problematic in itself.
Hi,
Wether im male or female it really makes little difference to my self being intersexed, you are marked as different any way no matter how one looks at it, being that liveing that can open doors or shut them that will depend on who acceptes you as a person no matter how you look. wether your fully male or fully female.
im an intersexed female with masculine features, yet accepted as a normal female by & large by most people , not all of cause because they have there own issues that i find they are not willing to work through or just plain dont wont to because that means they have to change how they were brought up or thier belives, what ever ,
So haveing said that i am a member of quite a few women only groups , so i sugest that says something about my self & those women .
Plus i work with many women who have been abused, & i identifie with that, i never had to think about what or who i am iv allways known if you like it was imprinted in myself from conception , just because our bodys are not perfect , does not change who we are,
Dont confuse experance with whats inside of you i have a lot of experance in many differeing details say like trades or music, that did not change myself as a person or even how i was brought up. there was no male or female in my thinking or i could only do this is for boys or this is only for girls, i was never pushed into a role of ether, what i am is from birth,
To put it bluntly i am my own person. not governed by background detail. so if the ? comes up are you, ( meaning myself, ) male or female , im both my thinking pattern is very different, as iv said i dont think male or female in the context of one or the other. i cant I tryed & failed, though im closer to female ,
any way thought i'd throw the spanner in the works & you can see a different aspect of us .
...noeleena...
Quote from: iiii on August 12, 2013, 02:19:12 AM
A male to female strives to become female, if you don't know what you personally see as making somebody female, then how do you know where your goal is? When have you become female?
I strive to be me. I am not becoming anything different than that. Appearances will change and I will finally be able to interact in society as myself. It's not about becoming female. I'm already there. It's about changing my appearance and body so I can finally act and be accepted for who I am and to eliminate body dysphoria which plagues me terribly. So is suppose, my goal is to pass, feel better about my body, live socially as female and be able to live my own individual life as all other girls do.
It means that shrinks like to hear themselves talk.
"What does it mean to be a man/woman" - It means you're a man/woman, what else do you want?
"What does it mean to be trans" - It means you're unlucky and people mistakenly don't realize the former.
Some things really are pretty simple and don't need a 2 hour thesis to explain.
Quote from: learningtolive on August 12, 2013, 01:42:21 AM
I believe it is a good question to ask ourselves because it makes us think more deeply about who we are. When considering transitioning and moving forward with such a path, it makes sense for us to have some idea this. The answer to the question has little to do with what being a woman is like, but what you think being a woman is like and why it's important to you is very relevant.
Yes. That is what I have thought.
barbie~~
Count me out, the thread has gone past the misinformed into the inaccurate and is now wandering the hysterical.
Everyone has their own right to their opinions of course. But I draw the line when people start making things up to solidify their reality. Especially when they expect me to conform to it.
I was born a human woman, I will die a human woman, and I am ok with being called a human woman. Now if you want to start employing scientifically species correct terminology just keep in mind, you are walking around my backyard.
Medical science can do many things, but, then we are back into the realm of science, and biology is science, it isn't opinion. Etymology is also a precise study.
I am not ashamed of what I am as a species. I like a good salad as much as I like a good steak. I am aware, that naked, I am no match for an African lion. I am aware that allowed to be the tool using animal I am, the entire lion species can be selectively wiped off the planet on a whim.
I dislike intensely the past actions of the male of my species. I hold them collectively responsible for their past so long as their past remains part of the present. They are not currently seeking to change, and for that, I hold them accountable. I understand that centuries of oppression is not easy to walk away from for some women. They often have either centuries of brain washing to over come, or simply no tools to aid them in their defense.
When asked what it really means to be a woman, I would likely be inclined to make snide remarks to the effect of 'how long have you been on this planet?. A person might as well ask me what it feels like to be wet. My first thought, is the question appears to be centered around the questioner denying 'I' know what it is to be one as a means to support their disbelief I really am one. I am not afraid to admit it, I don't have a great deal of respect for the field of psychiatry. It is known as a soft science for a reason. It's too easy to learn, and it is often too subjective a discipline. There isn't enough science involved in psychiatry.
When real science genuinely understands what it is to be male or female, I will be more willing to let quasi scientists to make grand claims. Not before. Real science can barely explain what is going on between my ears at all as it stands.
Quote from: iiii on August 12, 2013, 02:45:20 AM
This questions seems a bit strange... what's the point of anything if you're completely alone, and will always be alone?
That
IS the point!
Quote from: iiii on August 12, 2013, 02:45:20 AM
This questions seems a bit strange... what's the point of anything if you're completely alone, and will always be alone?
Actually I probably will be living the rest of my life alone even if I am living in a city - I live in an apartment but I rarely see any real people but my therapist I pretty much stay locked in my apartment all day except when I go to the store to get food. It is pretty much a jail cell. If you cannot spend your life loving you, your life IS pointless.
Quote from: vegie271 on August 12, 2013, 08:15:06 AM
If you cannot spend your life loving you, your life IS pointless.
I think this really accurately explains the point of the question. Are you doing it so you can love yourself or so that others will love you?
Not to say that doing something for the latter reason is wrong, but asking the question and really thinking about your answer to it will hopefully help you understand yourself a little more
Y'all get that there isn't a right answer to this question, right? That means nobody's answer is wrong. Nobody is looking for an answer that will be universally accepted here, because there isn't one. People's answers are just their personal views on what it means to be a woman and do not reflect on you or require that you conform to their ideas at all.
Quote from: Northern Jane on August 11, 2013, 05:18:00 PM
"If you were going to live the rest of your life on a deserted island and never see another human being, would you still want to go through the expense and pain of surgery?"
I would still like to go through with it and actually would prefer to live on a deserted island the rest of my life and never see another human being.
I agree that legitimate reflection and introspection can be fostered with such questions. My therapists also asked additional questions about what I would be willing to give up?, which gets to the heart of losing "male privilege"?
That "therapist as gatekeeper" role can add an unfortunate dimension of us "getting it right" so we can move forward. For personal reflection I gotta agree that most of us must ask these questions a bunch.
As a child the main role I saw women in was as a nurturing mother and that was my immature view. As a parent to a girl/woman I know that the process of becoming a woman is profound and I missed that with my acne faced boy puberty. My own stereotypes still center around a woman as a nurturing person but that nurturing now includes concern for the local and global community. As an activist in many realms, my experience is that women are in the majority as community activists and organizers. I am incredibly grateful to the feminists that proceeded us. A woman in this country can aspire to virtually any role with almost any conceivable presentation. Women are in the majority as students at our Community College. While so much emphasis is placed on a woman's looks, we/they can wear anything from a formal pant suit to the tiniest string bikini. It represents an incredible freedom to me as I now try three or more outfits on in a day. But of course it's not just about looks. In an intimate realm we have the unique perspective of being able to know what a testosterone dominated life is like relative to being a woman. Arousal and intimacy are sure different for this girl! Our roles at work and in political venues are becoming more egalitarian. While we still have a long way to go for full equality I spent my career comfortably in a role that was dominated by women. I am also more mindful of the misogyny and too frequent abuse and must sadly be concerned about safety too. My feeling of now being more like a woman is simply fabulous while the meaning of being a woman is food for plenty of thought and discussion. It is humanity and culture after all that provides context or creates that sense of meaning. With billions of women and millions of trans people I gotta think there are a gazillion ways to look at us, as unique as a snowflake?
Quote from: Jess42 on August 12, 2013, 11:05:51 AM
I would still like to go through with it and actually would prefer to live on a deserted island the rest of my life and never see another human being.
do you know how many times I have said this in the past year and a half I have lived in this slum since I moved in? I hate it here, the noise the horrible people , they are nasty - I would LOVE some quiet and privacy, especially the quiet!.
I don't think the terms woman and trans are mutually exclusive. I'm a woman, completely and unequivocally. Because I was born with a male body I am also transgender.
Quote from: learningtolive on August 12, 2013, 02:32:49 AM
I strive to be me. I am not becoming anything different than that. Appearances will change and I will finally be able to interact in society as myself. It's not about becoming female. I'm already there. It's about changing my appearance and body so I can finally act and be accepted for who I am and to eliminate body dysphoria which plagues me terribly. So is suppose, my goal is to pass, feel better about my body, live socially as female and be able to live my own individual life as all other girls do.
Hi Ltl,
First, a late reaction to your question regarding a suitable name. I thought about it when I first saw your post and nothing really came to mind but since you seem to like names that start with "M", I thought Melanie might be nice. Similar sound to Molly but a little softer I think...
Apart from that, it was nice to see you and a couple of other people on this thread finally put some content around what "being a woman" meant to you and I am still struggling to understand why putting words on this question, other than just saying "I am a woman" period, seems to be so difficult for so many of the contributors here.
Anyway, assuming you reach your goal of passing as described above and I am sure you will, I think you will discover that you are actually becoming something different to what you are now quite simply because people will react differently to you.
Being recognized by others as a woman or as a man has an immediate impact on the way they react to you and this also has an impact on the way you react to them. That's what social conditioning is all about and we are just as exposed to social conditioning as anyone else.
If you are interested in this subject, a book you might enjoy is "The pyschology of gender" a collection of studies on how gender identity is formed. I particularly liked this theme: https://internal.psychology.illinois.edu/reprints/index.php?page=request_article&site_id=51&article_id=1620 but, in my mind, the whole book is worth reading.
I am thinking about this a lot right now as I recently starting asking my friends and even my children for testimonial letters to support my civil identity change filing (in France such letters are necessary). Without any prompting from me, almost everyone who has answered so far has spoken about how much I had changed over the last couple of years, not just physically but also psychologically, that a different, gentler person had progressively emerged.
It was heartening to read but it also very much confirmed what I thought when I started out on this journey, that in our interactions with others, being perceived as a woman or a man has a huge impact on how people behave towards us. Over time this forcilbly impacts our own behaviours, reinforcing some aspects of our personality and no doubt weakening others in a self fulfilling process.
So, based on my experience, no matter how much you believe you are not "becoming female", I strongly suspect that how you actually live the reality of being female will change more than you can possibly imagine when people really start seeing you as a female.
Enjoy the journey!
Donna
Quote from: Donna Elvira on August 12, 2013, 12:57:47 PMSo, based on my experience, no matter how much you believe you are not "becoming female", I strongly suspect that how you actually live the reality of being female will change more than you can possibly imagine when people really start seeing you as a female.
That is a profound truth!!!
Being a woman is when your mind tells you that you are a woman.
Being a woman means being strong, so you can overcome the disadvantages society has laid at your feet.
Being a woman means being strong-willed, so you can stand up for yourself against people physically stronger than you and/or who have more social power than you.
Being a woman means sometimes conforming to the social construct of femininity, when it conforms to who you authentically are.
Being a woman means sometimes defying social conventions of femininity, and still not feeling the least bit shaken in your womanhood.
Being a woman means being adaptable, because social expectations in different roles, with different people, are so much more dynamic than they are for men.
Being a woman means being human, and all the complications and dynamics that come with that.
Being a woman is being a woman and being happy with it.
Quote from: vegie271 on August 12, 2013, 11:54:16 AM
do you know how many times I have said this in the past year and a half I have lived in this slum since I moved in? I hate it here, the noise the horrible people , they are nasty - I would LOVE some quiet and privacy, especially the quiet!.
I could probably guess it's about the same amount of times that I do. My dream home is anything as long as it sits right in the middle of about ten thousand acres of nothing but wilderness. I like people in general but sometimes dealing with them face to face constantly and or living right on top of one another kills me.
As for the original question and what it means to be a woman, giving up male privilege and or being seen as a female in society is not what is important to me. Its way deeper than that. It's something that I've longed for since first memories and nothing really concreted in female streotypes.
On a lighter side Tessa, what is male privilege? Not worrying about body hair? Nasty. Five minute showers? Yuck. Better Jobs? Never experienced that one. Better pay in the work force? Never experienced that one either. Not having to worry about your hair? Kinda' boring to me. Wearing loose comfortable clothing? Again, boring plus I find male clothing uncomfortable especially jeans. I don't guess I have ever experienced male privilege in my life so I sure wouldn't and don't miss it. ;D
Male privilege is being part of the good ole boys club and receiving things that you would not have received if you were female, i.e. jobs, raises, and just overall treatment. People act like you are helpless when you are perceived as female. Male privilege is "being one of the guys." I have never received it because as a guy I am small, weak and effeminate and I have never been able to hide it and I have tried. I come off as too enthusiastic, too talkative and demonstrative, too girly. My ex-GF once called me a girly girl. I said you mean girly guy. She said no I mean girly girl. I once lost to a girl at arm wrestling. She stood up and said I still have never lost to a girl. She didn't say Wow I beat a guy. And that in a nuthsell is why I don't fit in with men. They don't like me. Well, now they do lol but they just wanna get in my pants.
As for the original question and what it means to be a woman, giving up male privilege and or being seen as a female in society is not what is important to me. Its way deeper than that. It's something that I've longed for since first memories and nothing really concreted in female streotypes.
On a lighter side Tessa, what is male privilege? Not worrying about body hair? Nasty. Five minute showers? Yuck. Better Jobs? Never experienced that one. Better pay in the work force? Never experienced that one either. Not having to worry about your hair? Kinda' boring to me. Wearing loose comfortable clothing? Again, boring plus I find male clothing uncomfortable especially jeans. I don't guess I have ever experienced male privilege in my life so I sure wouldn't and don't miss it. ;D
[/quote]
Ha ha ha, yes Jess, I couldn't find anything about the so called male privilege I would not give up. Happy to let others define what they mean by that. There are clear prejudices and the well documented pay disparity seriously hurts single women and children. I am aware of subtle differences in behavior now that I'm out and in transition. Men now will not try and engage me about manly things like cars while women talk more comfortably about fashion and style. Ahh the never ending stereotypes. The sense of being looked past or disrespected in the political realm because I am different does require me to be aware and thoughtful about how I respond. The night I came out to some close friends at a card game two of them responded with, "Ok, get in the kitchen and start helping." They were joking and having fun but again we have lots of simply stupid stereotypes to over come about what it means to be a man or woman.
I think you are a woman because your mind says so and because being male is untenable for you. I don't think the lack of male privilege makes anybody a woman, but it is something that women experience pretty universally, so it really does shape what the experience of being a woman is for most.
Male privilege has more to do with control, wages, and keeping women in their place, things like that, than the dumb things men do and like to do, which I agree I want nothing to do with. :)
Well, in all honesty, the hormones help a lot. I've always felt like I should have born a girl and something went terribly wrong but I could never just say to myself "I'm a woman." It's even hard now. I look at myself in the mirror and I see a man. It's really hard to look at myself and to seriously say "I'm a woman." It is getting easier and I now look when someone says "miss" or whatever and don't look at "sir" but there is more to it then that. When I'm with my BF it is a lot easier for some reason. I see myself as a woman with him but when I'm alone it's not as easy.
But like I said the hormones help a lot and with being perceived as female by everyone I am hoping it gets easier. I do feel female but without ever having the subjective experience I can't judge it's authenticity. But yeah being a man was untenable. Unbearable. Unfathomable and a bunch of other Uns.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 12, 2013, 03:04:39 PM
Male privilege is being part of the good ole boys club and receiving things that you would not have received if you were female, i.e. jobs, raises, and just overall treatment. People act like you are helpless when you are perceived as female. Male privilege is "being one of the guys." I have never received it because as a guy I am small, weak and effeminate and I have never been able to hide it and I have tried. I come off as too enthusiastic, too talkative and demonstrative, too girly. My ex-GF once called me a girly girl. I said you mean girly guy. She said no I mean girly girl. I once lost to a girl at arm wrestling. She stood up and said I still have never lost to a girl. She didn't say Wow I beat a guy. And that in a nuthsell is why I don't fit in with men. They don't like me. Well, now they do lol but they just wanna get in my pants.
OK. I guess I just never been on the same level as the Good Ol' Boys. I would rather be seen as weak, that way I have to do less work especially the dirty kind. ;) I never really fit the male stereotype either cause I really didn't and still don't care about what someone killed when they went hunting, who won the ball game over the weekend and all the other stuff males talk about or the activities they do. I do like cars though, classy expensive cars, but hate working on them.
Quote from: Tessa James on August 12, 2013, 03:14:30 PM
Ha ha ha, yes Jess, I couldn't find anything about the so called male privilege I would not give up. Happy to let others define what they mean by that. There are clear prejudices and the well documented pay disparity seriously hurts single women and children. I am aware of subtle differences in behavior now that I'm out and in transition. Men now will not try and engage me about manly things like cars while women talk more comfortably about fashion and style. Ahh the never ending stereotypes. The sense of being looked past or disrespected in the political realm because I am different does require me to be aware and thoughtful about how I respond. The night I came out to some close friends at a card game two of them responded with, "Ok, get in the kitchen and start helping." They were joking and having fun but again we have lots of simply stupid stereotypes to over come about what it means to be a man or woman.
I would much rather be in the Kitchen than playing cards 'cause the way my luck is' I'm far better off as far as I can get away from anything having to do with money and cards. ;) I'd end up having to walk home wearing one of those barrels with shoulder straps at the end of the night.
Quote from: Jess42 on August 12, 2013, 03:42:53 PM
OK. I guess I just never been on the same level as the Good Ol' Boys. I would rather be seen as weak, that way I have to do less work especially the dirty kind. ;) I never really fit the male stereotype either cause I really didn't and still don't care about what someone killed when they went hunting, who won the ball game over the weekend and all the other stuff males talk about or the activities they do. I do like cars though, classy expensive cars, but hate working on them.
I would much rather be in the Kitchen than playing cards 'cause the way my luck is' I'm far better off as far as I can get away from anything having to do with money and cards. ;) I'd end up having to walk home wearing one of those barrels with shoulder straps at the end of the night.
But sometimes being a woman does mean caring about who won the game, if you're into that sort of thing. A
lot of times being a woman doesn't mean being in the kitchen at all. I have many female friends that can't cook to save their life. Gender stereotypes really don't get at what being a woman is, for me anyway.
Quote from: Jen on August 12, 2013, 03:55:48 PM
But sometimes being a woman does mean caring about who won the game, if you're into that sort of thing. A lot of times being a woman doesn't mean being in the kitchen at all. I have many female friends that can't cook to save their life. Gender stereotypes really don't get at what being a woman is, for me anyway.
That's just me though, I love to cook and hate sports. You're right, there are women that are concerned with the games, hunting and so on. Some are even my family members and I used to catch crap from 'em especially during hunting season. But they never complained when I was the one cooking what
they killed. ;)
Other then makeup, most of the stereotypes of women are off base. Most women, like 90 percent, use makeup. Maybe just a light powder foundation and some lip gloss, but that's still makeup. My best friend in college was the only woman I ever knew who wore didn't wear makeup, but she was also the most beautiful girl in the school. Why she chose to associate with little ol' me I'll never know lol we had so much fun and used to pass notes to each other in class. Gawd I miss her.
But things like sports or cooking or even fashion is not universal. I see plenty of women that have absolutely no idea how to dress. Girls grow up playing sports these days so that is off base too. Other stereotypes like being emotional don't carry much weight either. I know plenty of unemotional women.
I know for myself I love makeup and fashion but I also watch some sports like basketball and baseball. In fact, playing with makeup while watching the Phillies seems like a fun time!
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 12, 2013, 04:34:03 PM
Other then makeup, most of the stereotypes of women are off base. Most women, like 90 percent, use makeup. Maybe just a light powder foundation and some lip gloss, but that's still makeup. My best friend in college was the only woman I ever knew who wore didn't wear makeup, but she was also the most beautiful girl in the school. Why she chose to associate with little ol' me I'll never know lol we had so much fun and used to pass notes to each other in class. Gawd I miss her.
But things like sports or cooking or even fashion is not universal. I see plenty of women that have absolutely no idea how to dress. Girls grow up playing sports these days so that is off base too. Other stereotypes like being emotional don't carry much weight either. I know plenty of unemotional women.
I know for myself I love makeup and fashion but I also watch some sports like basketball and baseball. In fact, playing with makeup while watching the Phillies seems like a fun time!
This may depend on your location and friends - even in my theatrical friends only about 50% wear it during their theater presence or when going out or work @ home or relaxing on the weekend not at all even powder or lip gloss (maybe chapstick) and here I am talking cis friends (not lesbian even I do have some straight and Bi))
and out of my other crowd in the lesbian group don't get me started on makeup - practically NONE of them wear makeup we are talking 3% they think I am crazy for just wearing lipstick and mascara (now remember I am in western USA)
For me it is just a fundamental sense of identity, a fundamental feeling of who I am, and knowing it before being fully socialised into gender roles and knowing the significance of them. Nothing to do with clothes, hobbies, interests etc, although these can often be a reflection of the fundamental identity, but are not the identity itself.
Kia Ora,
::) So for me 'personally'
What it really means to be a woman ? Normal
What it really means to be trans? Not normal, in the sense one sits outside society's gender box, labelled 'the norm'... When going through the 'transitional' stage (ie identifying as one medical condition=trans) can to a certain extent challenge mainstream society's concept of gender which in turn could (quite often does) have a major impact on a 'trans' person's physical and mental well being...
However this is just how "I" personally see it and as the saying goes................
"Different Strokes For Different Folks !"
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: vegie271 on August 12, 2013, 04:48:45 PM
This may depend on your location and friends - even in my theatrical friends only about 50% wear it during their theater presence or when going out or work @ home or relaxing on the weekend not at all even powder or lip gloss (maybe chapstick) and here I am talking cis friends (not lesbian even I do have some straight and Bi))
and out of my other crowd in the lesbian group don't get me started on makeup - practically NONE of them wear makeup we are talking 3% they think I am crazy for just wearing lipstick and mascara (now remember I am in western USA)
I'm not talking full on makeup I mean just some. And there is no way it is three percent of women wear makeup. (That's just the lesbian community and butch lesbian at that. I know lesbians and they wear makeup.) The stock market doesn't lie. Okay well it does but ya know what I mean. Here was a poll in the UK about makeup habits. Seventy percent of women won't go to work without it. Ninety one percent would cancel a first date rather then go bare faced. I don't think there is anything wrong with it and why wouldn't you want to look your best? All the women I know who don't wear it are naturally pretty. Just look around. Women wear makeup.
I don't why but it always seems like the trans community dislikes makeup. I just think wearing makeup is fun and natural. Women have been doing it for thousands of years. I read history. It's a pretty constant thing. I just think makeup gets put down a lot especially in the trans community but in general too by society at large and just because a woman wants to look her best doesn't make he fake like some men think. That's what men think, I think.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/20/women-makeup-free-stressful-first-date-job-interview_n_1366541.html
On my first day of therapy the 1st 2 questions were 1) why am I hear and 2) what does it feel like to be a woman. Ironic, when I came out each time I was asked what it felt like, either trans or a woman. I told 3 people what it is like to be trans, the narrative. I answered #2 what does it feel like to be a woman, I do not know what it feels like to be a woman. I feel female. I was raised male and after age 6 I was not allowed to play with my girl friends so my socialization as a female ended and I never grew up to be a woman.
To me, asking what it really means to be a woman is like asking a one legged man what it really means to be a two legged person. He is looking for help to fix his body, he's not looking for philosophy meetup groups...
Could you describe the red color in words? If you don't... how can you be sure? ::)
Sometime ago I realized that I'm not a woman, trans, man, intersex... I'm just me. I prefer my body being feminine, I identify better with female gender. I don't care about what constitutes a woman or a man, to me they're the same, human beings.
To me, to be trans is to be a woman that other people think of as trans.
Why do the words 'trans' and 'woman' have to be considered as separate ideas? Aren't they part of the same thing.
All women - all people - can be defined in a bundle of different ways. My wife is a woman. She's also white, middle-class, heterosexual and British, all of which are ways of defining her, and which are categories into which she could be put. And all of those adjectives tell you something about her and the way she has been socialised, the cultural influences that have helped shape her and the way she thinks of herself. They don't tell you anything about her character, or her strengths and weaknesses. But they are part, at least of who she is.
So ... if/when (please God) I transition, I will be a woman, who is also transsexual, middle-class, white, heterosexual and British. pretty much exactly the same as my wife, in fact, except for the addition of the 't-word'. And that would be about right, because my wife and I have many of the same tastes, life experiences, cultural influences, etc ... but I'd be trans, and she wouldn't be - and that would make us different ... but not THAT different.
My point is, all of us are multi-faceted. Gender is hugely important to us - all the more so because we're trans and it's so much more of an issue than it is for most other people. But it's not the only thing that defines us, not matter what sex we happen to be at the time.
Quote from: Carlita on August 14, 2013, 08:22:56 AM
Why do the words 'trans' and 'woman' have to be considered as separate ideas? Aren't they part of the same thing.
All women - all people - can be defined in a bundle of different ways. My wife is a woman. She's also white, middle-class, heterosexual and British, all of which are ways of defining her, and which are categories into which she could be put. And all of those adjectives tell you something about her and the way she has been socialised, the cultural influences that have helped shape her and the way she thinks of herself. They don't tell you anything about her character, or her strengths and weaknesses. But they are part, at least of who she is.
So ... if/when (please God) I transition, I will be a woman, who is also transsexual, middle-class, white, heterosexual and British. pretty much exactly the same as my wife, in fact, except for the addition of the 't-word'. And that would be about right, because my wife and I have many of the same tastes, life experiences, cultural influences, etc ... but I'd be trans, and she wouldn't be - and that would make us different ... but not THAT different.
My point is, all of us are multi-faceted. Gender is hugely important to us - all the more so because we're trans and it's so much more of an issue than it is for most other people. But it's not the only thing that defines us, not matter what sex we happen to be at the time.
I hear you, but to most people out there being trans and being a woman are two entirely different things.
since I am not a women I don't know what is like to be one. If I had dominate female DNA I would be a woman. Humans get 1/2 their DNA from their father and 1/2 from their mother. This is where the mental conflict originates in transsexuals and transpeople . A fight for dominance.
Trans means as mtf a person was born with male DNA and a male brain. Not a female brain !
SRS main goal is for those people for what ever reason want to look like the opposite sex. It is not meant to cure anything. SRS can cause problems post op like depression. suicidal behavior and the dreaded Regret. , something the promoters and wpath soc and gender therapists say nothing about.
Wpath says Nothing about post op except to keep in touch w/ your shrink. and says nothing about DNA.
I want to thank wpath, my gender therapists, the promoters of SRS for The Post Op Regret I have. ( (I followed the soc and other stuff. )Thank You. Genital surgery on perfectly healthy males . quite a concept.
IMO those questions are broad.
Take "What does it mean to be a woman"
Every woman I've know is different, they think different, they like different things and they act different. You might as well ask what does it mean to be human.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer in that. -shrug-
Quote from: victoria n on August 14, 2013, 03:00:46 PM
since I am not a women I don't know what is like to be one. If I had dominate female DNA I would be a woman. Humans get 1/2 their DNA from their father and 1/2 from their mother. This is where the mental conflict originates in transsexuals and transpeople . A fight for dominance.
Trans means as mtf a person was born with male DNA and a male brain. Not a female brain !
SRS main goal is for those people for what ever reason want to look like the opposite sex. It is not meant to cure anything. SRS can cause problems post op like depression. suicidal behavior and the dreaded Regret. , something the promoters and wpath soc and gender therapists say nothing about.
Wpath says Nothing about post op except to keep in touch w/ your shrink. and says nothing about DNA.
I want to thank wpath, my gender therapists, the promoters of SRS for The Post Op Regret I have. ( (I followed the soc and other stuff. )Thank You. Genital surgery on perfectly healthy males . quite a concept.
if you are male then why the hell did you went into transition and even surgery?
the rest of your concepts are proven wrong, take a look at women with AIS, they are XY and they are not male at all :-) same with women who suffer from transexualism.
I know a woman who undergo a knee surgery and she is not pleased with the results, should be knee surgeries be prohibited? be must ignore all the good results?
please don't be silly.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 12, 2013, 06:38:43 PM
I'm not talking full on makeup I mean just some. And there is no way it is three percent of women wear makeup. (That's just the lesbian community and butch lesbian at that. I know lesbians and they wear makeup.) The stock market doesn't lie. Okay well it does but ya know what I mean. Here was a poll in the UK about makeup habits. Seventy percent of women won't go to work without it. Ninety one percent would cancel a first date rather then go bare faced. I don't think there is anything wrong with it and why wouldn't you want to look your best? All the women I know who don't wear it are naturally pretty. Just look around. Women wear makeup.
I don't why but it always seems like the trans community dislikes makeup. I just think wearing makeup is fun and natural. Women have been doing it for thousands of years. I read history. It's a pretty constant thing. I just think makeup gets put down a lot especially in the trans community but in general too by society at large and just because a woman wants to look her best doesn't make he fake like some men think. That's what men think, I think.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/20/women-makeup-free-stressful-first-date-job-interview_n_1366541.html
I did not say 3% of all womyn I said 3% of my friends please pay attention to what I say not what you want to hear - my friends are almost entirely LGBT and what are not are just a few theater people - also I live in a desert - it was 100 degrees today - we are also out west much more casual here than where you are.
Quote from: victoria n on August 14, 2013, 03:00:46 PM
since I am not a women I don't know what is like to be one. If I had dominate female DNA I would be a woman. Humans get 1/2 their DNA from their father and 1/2 from their mother. This is where the mental conflict originates in transsexuals and transpeople . A fight for dominance.
Trans means as mtf a person was born with male DNA and a male brain. Not a female brain !
SRS main goal is for those people for what ever reason want to look like the opposite sex. It is not meant to cure anything. SRS can cause problems post op like depression. suicidal behavior and the dreaded Regret. , something the promoters and wpath soc and gender therapists say nothing about.
Wpath says Nothing about post op except to keep in touch w/ your shrink. and says nothing about DNA.
I want to thank wpath, my gender therapists, the promoters of SRS for The Post Op Regret I have. ( (I followed the soc and other stuff. )Thank You. Genital surgery on perfectly healthy males . quite a concept.
I've never been a male. I have a male body, but my consciousness is all woman and always has been.
I'd be willing to bet that a post-mortem examination of my brain would reveal that has more in common with a female brain than a male one. And as for SRS causing post-op depression, guess what? Any surgery can cause that - even something as 'simple' as a knee reconstruction.
And now I'm going to be blunt. You made the choice to transition. You made the choice to have SRS. You really have no one to 'blame' for your regrets other than yourself. I can't imagine how you feel, I'm never going to have SRS, so post-op regret is not something I've ever really thought about.
Quote from: Donna Elvira on August 12, 2013, 12:57:47 PM
Hi Ltl,
First, a late reaction to your question regarding a suitable name. I thought about it when I first saw your post and nothing really came to mind but since you seem to like names that start with "M", I thought Melanie might be nice. Similar sound to Molly but a little softer I think...
Apart from that, it was nice to see you and a couple of other people on this thread finally put some content around what "being a woman" meant to you and I am still struggling to understand why putting words on this question, other than just saying "I am a woman" period, seems to be so difficult for so many of the contributors here.
Anyway, assuming you reach your goal of passing as described above and I am sure you will, I think you will discover that you are actually becoming something different to what you are now quite simply because people will react differently to you.
Being recognized by others as a woman or as a man has an immediate impact on the way they react to you and this also has an impact on the way you react to them. That's what social conditioning is all about and we are just as exposed to social conditioning as anyone else.
If you are interested in this subject, a book you might enjoy is "The pyschology of gender" a collection of studies on how gender identity is formed. I particularly liked this theme: https://internal.psychology.illinois.edu/reprints/index.php?page=request_article&site_id=51&article_id=1620 but, in my mind, the whole book is worth reading.
I am thinking about this a lot right now as I recently starting asking my friends and even my children for testimonial letters to support my civil identity change filing (in France such letters are necessary). Without any prompting from me, almost everyone who has answered so far has spoken about how much I had changed over the last couple of years, not just physically but also psychologically, that a different, gentler person had progressively emerged.
It was heartening to read but it also very much confirmed what I thought when I started out on this journey, that in our interactions with others, being perceived as a woman or a man has a huge impact on how people behave towards us. Over time this forcilbly impacts our own behaviours, reinforcing some aspects of our personality and no doubt weakening others in a self fulfilling process.
So, based on my experience, no matter how much you believe you are not "becoming female", I strongly suspect that how you actually live the reality of being female will change more than you can possibly imagine when people really start seeing you as a female.
Enjoy the journey!
Donna
I suppose there is truth to that. I've always looked at it from the perspective that I will still be me, but finally be given the societal privilege to interact with others as me. People will notice major changes; however, those visible differences in personality will represent who I always have been on the inside. Having said that, once you are able to express yourself as you are, it's not guaranteed that things won't change (including yourself). In fact, its likely that things will be different. I think I'm okay with that. I love who I am, but I will be fine if I change for the better (or what I deem would be for the better).
Quote from: victoria n on August 14, 2013, 03:00:46 PM
since I am not a women I don't know what is like to be one. If I had dominate female DNA I would be a woman. Humans get 1/2 their DNA from their father and 1/2 from their mother. This is where the mental conflict originates in transsexuals and transpeople . A fight for dominance.
Trans means as mtf a person was born with male DNA and a male brain. Not a female brain !
SRS main goal is for those people for what ever reason want to look like the opposite sex. It is not meant to cure anything. SRS can cause problems post op like depression. suicidal behavior and the dreaded Regret. , something the promoters and wpath soc and gender therapists say nothing about.
Wpath says Nothing about post op except to keep in touch w/ your shrink. and says nothing about DNA.
I want to thank wpath, my gender therapists, the promoters of SRS for The Post Op Regret I have. ( (I followed the soc and other stuff. )Thank You. Genital surgery on perfectly healthy males . quite a concept.
Sorry to here about your situation, but I disagree with some of your claims. While I don't judge you for your personal testimony on transitioning, I don't think it is fair to claim that the medical establishment is set out against trans people (especially when examining the vigorous gatekeeping process). Most, in fact, would never advance anyone who claimed that they are "men" and show a lack of desire to actually transition. Having said that, I do feel sorry for what has happened to you and the fact that you regret all of your decisions. It's clear that transitioning is not right for everyone. I do think people should take these stories into account because it isn't the path for everyone. Although it will help many of us who are trans, it's not the answer for everyone. Remember, this is your life. Consider the consequences before you go ahead and take any major actions as you are responsible for your own life.
Since I actually am a woman I suppose I can actually comment on this topic. What it means to be a woman is life is normal. Simple as that. You take the good and the bad just as you would if you were male. Nothing more and nothing less.
For those of you that are dreaming I can say this. Transition is a rollercoaster to a very normal existence. Again nothing more and nothing less.
Katie
Quote from: Katie on August 15, 2013, 10:20:16 AM
Since I actually am a woman I suppose I can actually comment on this topic. What it means to be a woman is life is normal. Simple as that. You take the good and the bad just as you would if you were male. Nothing more and nothing less.
For those of you that are dreaming I can say this. Transition is a rollercoaster to a very normal existence. Again nothing more and nothing less.
Katie
EXACTLY!! And I'd give anything to feel like a normal person, who happens to be seen by everyone around them as a woman and can, over time, take it for granted, just like every other cis-woman in the world does, with all the good and bad that comes with the whole business of being female.
:police: OK, we're starting to step on toes here, let's allow people to identify themselves, please.
Trans is an umbrella term so it covers a wide range of people, being a woman is just that, being a woman.
I am a woman, I am treated as a peer by the other women who I interact with daily. They don't change what they are talking about just because I am there, nothing is taboo.
That is all I can ask for.
Quote from: Alice In Genderland on August 15, 2013, 11:58:08 AM
I thought the point was to be yourself? Anyways, since "I probably won't understand" I think I'll just leave the thread. Bye
Alice, I've just seen that you left the thread right after my post, which appeared to contradict your previous statement. That worries me a little. So just to clarify, and in the hope that you might see this, I want to let you know that I certainly wasn't trying to contradict you, or deny your point-of-view. I was just stating my own, personal desires. I crave the normality I've never felt I had throughout my life (even if I look and sound 'normal' to the outside world). But I certainly don't expect everyone else - or even anyone else - to feel the way I do. Nor would I suggest that there is any right or wrong way to feel.