Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Female to male transsexual talk (FTM) => Topic started by: randomroads on August 10, 2013, 10:42:11 PM

Title: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: randomroads on August 10, 2013, 10:42:11 PM
I'm training my dog for Schutzhund and there are only two clubs in my area for it. One of the clubs I do not like. The people are rude and I'm not keen on the way the training director handles his dogs.
River (my dog) and I visited the second club today and spent 7 hours there. They took her seriously and evaluated what she could do and what she's capable of. I really like this club. They're friendly, kind to their dogs, and it's more like hanging out with a big group of friends even though I didn't know a single person there.

So now my problem is what am I supposed to do about being transgender? I'm absolutely petrified of being shunned and black listed for being trans and because Schutzhund is such a tight knit dog sport (read - gossip) I froze up and told the training director my female name. I'm so embarrassed by the idea of taking him to a quiet corner and talking to him about it. I'm terrified of 20 people constantly wanting to ask me questions or even worse, totally ignoring me and refusing to acknowledge me. There are little kids that hang out during training because they're either handling dogs or their parents are, and I'm worried that people will think I'm some kind of freak and a pervert and over react when I'm around their kid.

This is actually such a big deal to me that I'm considering not doing anything at all. That's not fair to me or my dog since we could do great things, but the anxiety this is causing is painful. When I'm out on the field working my dog, I don't even feel them watching me. When I have to sit around and watch others work and talk with everyone, that's when I'm so upset I could cry.
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: randomroads on August 10, 2013, 10:45:50 PM
To add -

This is such a big deal to me that I wore jeans instead of shorts because my legs are hairy and I refuse to shave them. Because I knew everyone was going to see me as female I was scared people would think I'm 'gross' for not shaving because 'that's what girls are supposed to do.' I'm so frustrated with myself and being trans that I'm ready to just become a hermit until I can get top surgery.
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: spacerace on August 10, 2013, 10:58:32 PM
Is there a reason you have to start immediately? I would just give it a few months, and see what happens with T and passing.  If you are worried about this ruining your one time chance in a really small knit group of people - just wait.
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: randomroads on August 10, 2013, 11:07:35 PM
Waiting is an option, but it's one that upsets me. Being completely capable of doing something, and then not doing it because of fear really gets to me. I'd have to wait for a year.
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: Kreuzfidel on August 10, 2013, 11:34:54 PM
Unfortunately, mate - you have a choice to make.  Either wait and be unhappy waiting or pretend to be female and be unhappy pretending. 
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: Adam (birkin) on August 10, 2013, 11:42:28 PM
I was in this situation at university for several years (and still am sometimes because I only pass as young -_-), and yeah...it really comes down to if you want to live as female to avoid the weird questions/rejection or if you want to come out and hope for the best. I ended up coming out and hoping for the best. It was OK. I prefer to not be out, so it was hard sometimes, but I had some people behind me who had my back all the way and it helped me get through until I could start transition. If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't have been OK.
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: Soren on August 11, 2013, 12:20:46 AM
One of the reasons trans people are shunned is because there's little to no exposure of us being normal. You said everyone seems friendly, right? I think you should have a little chat with the person in charge and see how it goes. After all, if you wait too long, you won't be able to teach your old dog new tricks  ;)

(Though I do think it rather perplexing that that statement applies to people far better than actual dogs...)
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: randomroads on August 11, 2013, 01:29:51 AM
In reality, it is more difficult to teach an older dog to do this particular sport. It can be very physically demanding on them. There are other things the two of us can do besides Schutzhund but she LOVES it so much that I feel terrible denying yet another dog something they want to do. I gave my male back to the breeder because I was unable to train him properly. I don't want to feel like I need to find my girl (who I'm mad about) another home, too, just because she can't do what she wants.

I think I could be okay with being seen as female if it doesn't affect me later. What happens when I let the stubble grow out into a beard to help me pass? What happens when my voice drops even lower and consistently? Technically, these people will see me every week, so I guess it wouldnt' be some huge shock.
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: Jack_M on August 11, 2013, 02:56:01 AM
I think you need to make the choice now. No two ways about it. I recently dealt with something a little similar at my Taekwon-do club where I delayed saying anything until I was about to start T. I had a lot on the line. Taekwon-do is my escape and passion. Not having that in my life during what is one of the hardest periods of my life was a huge fear for me. My family are in Scotland and not accepting of me. I'm in Canada and essentially alone. The idea of coming out there was more terrifying to me than coming out to my parents! I go there 2-3 times a week and I help teach one of the younger classes. It's a big deal for me and my emotional well being. It's literally what makes me happy. My parents; I see them at Xmas...sometimes. In the last 3 years I've spent a week and a half with them. I already know I can survive without them fine.

So coming out there was scary, there was more to lose for me on a personal level. So one Saturday I stayed after class and bit the bullet. Since then my only regret was not saying anything earlier. My instructor embraced it and explicitly stated that I was going nowhere. If others had a problem with it, they could leave. And not one person has had a problem with it, even the parents of the kids I teach, those that figured it out at least. Others are either oblivious or just don't really care. My own class has been extremely accepting, and it's not kids, the adult class has folk from 14-60+! Sometimes you get lucky! It's much better to bite the bullet and find out than live a lie.

Also, in terms of training a dog, it's going to make you a crap trainer to your dog if you're not being yourself. If you act one way at home and a different way at the club it will confuse her. You want your attention to be solely on the dog and not what people are thinking about you. And of course, on T your voice will change over the next few months to years, and facial hair will grow and it's going to be obvious. You can't hide it. That's why I had to come out at Taekwon-do, my voice is already changing and I have dark chin hair and whiskers already. Nothing I'd show off but it's still noticeable that I've shaved there. In places where the hair is darker, I have a stubble by 5ish onwards and my classes are after work, I couldn't shave before class!

I say it's best to come out. I'm not sure waiting would work, there's bound to be folks that recognise you. If they're not accepting, they're not accepting and you find a way to deal with it. Your dog does not need to do that stuff, it's just an ideal. You can teach dogs other tricks and little things around the house that give them what they need. Lots of folks own extremely energetic dogs and they're not at the park every day for hours. They can teach them to do little jobs around the house that keep them happy as Larry. Back home I had a Jack Russell/Spaniel mix but there wasn't the time to spend hours in the park every day, so we just started teaching him new tricks all the time. A lot of fetch things, like when we get in the door and take our shoes off, he'd run to where we kept slippers and bring them to us and then take our shoes and put them away. And he absolutely loved having a job to do. Dogs are very simple animals. They're very easily pleased :).
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: aleon515 on August 11, 2013, 03:17:30 AM
You picked the most conservative type dog training possible. Not being critical just a statement in fact. I am a certified clicker trainer and no one has really batted an eye. All the people I know are over 40. But still do you really love that so much that you are willing to deny yourself to participate? Seems like a huge problem. Even though I am out and all, I do have to work myself up to telling people. There's a bit of an obstacle or something.


--Jay
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: Cindy on August 11, 2013, 03:21:40 AM
Sorry for popping in to the guys' area, as a Mod I can see all areas.  Unfortunately this is what the Real Life Experience is all about. It can be terrible no matter in which direction we travel but it is thrown at us to see if we can cope.

Certainly the local social environment you are in can help, if there is a common interest then maybe people look over other differences. There is also the choice, which is how I went FT, of just doing it and not saying anything. I was a really masculine looking woman, people would look at me and I would look back.  I didn't say anything, I let them get used to it.

In a small social group such as the dog training it has a major advantage for you in 'coming out'. People join such clubs because it is a shared activity, it is social (and competitive) but also people do it to meet people with similar interests. They are more likely to accept you  because they are interested in your dog, your training technique and success/failure etc. It is a social activity and people are accepting in such places.

I suggest giving it a go, be yourself, your dog will sense your concern and not train properly anyway if you are nervous and confused so go for it!

I realise this comment may not help! But in my rather wide experience of putting myself into situations where I am totally scared s***less, the terror only lasts a minute or so! And the next time is easier.

Go for it!!!!!!

Cindy
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: spacerace on August 11, 2013, 01:31:19 PM
you mentioned wanting to wait for top surgery? Is this event athletic for you in some way that your chest makes it awkward?

Your ticker says you have been on T 3 months. The next 3 months could give you T magic - or not. Waiting another 3 months to see where you stand seems like the path of least resistance. You could then go back and give them your male name from the beginning, which would eliminate the confusion when you introduce yourself that way.

I would only choose this option because the stress of being seen as a woman with a female name would be too much for me - especially as I saw T changes begin to unfold. Waiting 3 months would be worth it to avoid that, even if it meant denying myself 3-4 months of fun.

Other posters are right though - be yourself and do what you want.
Title: Re: Social transition in the dog training world when you don't pass at all
Post by: randomroads on August 11, 2013, 01:53:50 PM
The competition aspect isn't physical for me. The training is. Actually, training her is always physically demanding. If she's not ripping my arm out of socket with the tug toy then she's just not happy. I don't have to go to the gym and work out my shoulder and chest... she does it for me! In the training we'd do at the club there are many times where I'm going to have to stand like a post and hold her back as she pulls like a freight train to get to the toy the helper is teasing her with so she can play tug with HIM and rip his arm out of socket. If I continue going to the club, people there are more than happy to handle her for me if I'm unable to, so if I'm out to them and honest about having had chest surgery, then there will be at least three people happy to hold her while I watch and learn.

I'm going to continue thinking about this. Thank you all for the replies. And yes, you're right Jay. My taste in dog sports always runs down the conservative attitude line. If I could find a trainer that knew what these people know then I wouldn't bother with this problem. I'd just train with that person. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find one. This club is purely positive for dogs that need it, and compulsion based for dogs that need it. I like that they're willing to change strategies as the dog gets more mature. Watching the training director with my girl as he was showing me how to not make mistakes was pure magic. At that point in time she would have sprouted wings and flew if he told her to.