Today I went out without my BF. I am usually with him when I am out so I maybe have gotten much prettier and bustier in the last month or so. And today I was walking down the Avenue and this guy stops and askes me if I'm working. I wasn't dressed like a hooker but he obviously thought I was one. It made me feel good because, ya know, I passed well enough to attract some John who wanted me to, uh, perform fallatio on him.
So maybe I think it is just a one-off or that the guy was stupid for thinking I am a woman. But then all these guys start saying Hi to me when I pass them or say stuff like "what's up baby girl" or "hey little mama!"Obviously I like this. But then this one guy starts walking with me and startes flirting and i thought it was innocent but he puts his arm around me and then started holding my hand and even kissed me. I shoulda said something or tried to hold him off but I prolly only encouraged him some how. It was weird cause I was dressed rather boyish and he asked where my GF was. I thought I was clocked but he just thought I was a dyke. Eventually, after like 10 minutes, I lost him.
It wasn't that bad and it is the kinda thing that could happen at ay bar. But most cis girls know how to hold guys off. I don't. I have no idea how to or to at least calm it down. I just ended up maybe flirting. I mean it was validating because I passed so well this guy really liked me and my voice didn't even betray me. Plus he kept telling me how pretty I am. I love guys and I love people saying I am pretty but I also have a BF and feel bad when this happens. It's great I pass so well and look pretty (though I don;t know maybe he was blind lol) but even though noting bad happened in the future another guy could be not so nice and much more forward.
So any you girls have any pointers on how to deal with men? Soon, I am going to start dressing a lot more femme and start showing off my boobs more. Plus I have only been on HRT for five months and you are supposed to get a lot more femme starting at six months right? I hope so. But it would prolly be good to know how deal with fesity men better. The only guy I want to please is my man! Love him.
I normally ignore them- the leering glances of men deep into their cups just don't do it for me *shudder*, and if I don't react to their words they give up. For those few who don't understand body language, letting them know that " my husband would love to have you join us " is enough to stop any ideas they may have.
I seriously need a next move though....one day they may want to join :-\
That's kind of gross. No one should be invading your personal space like that. The only suggestion I have is clearly saying no or I'm not interested and pushing them out of the personal space bubble. If he continues and/or gets rough, find a crowd and get noisy with the telling off.
That's odd. Where was your boyfriend throughout this? I would imagine he would say something to get these guys off of you. Was he there or did I misread something?
Getting compliments is okay, but two of the men are really pervy. The guy that asked you for sexual favors deserves a big f off. And the guy that started to follow and put his hands on you deserves a kick to the groin and a reminder that he cannot put his hands on a woman without permission. Mace was invented for a reason. I agree that body language and words are enough to deal with most situations. However, the second guy here could have been a major threat. I would have at least been very vocal about telling him to get his hands off and then pushed him off if he didn't follow through. You never know where he could have taken things and we have too many assaults in the trans community already.
The other guys don't sound too bad. Cat calling is unavoidable and the last guy was probably just hitting on you. For guys like that, body and verbal language can help you. Also, you could come right out and say you have a boyfriend. If he starts to harass you, then it's time to get bitchy and make a scene. Likely that will embarrass him and scare him off.
I need to verse myself at handling this, too.
Usually I just end up trying to be polite- which for some reason almost always comes across as flirting... I always end up digging the hole deeper. Bleh.
Like, what am I supposed to say when it's a friend of a friend and they insist on exchanging numbers? A sarcastic and/or elegant response that dodges the topic would be what I am after. I have a really hard time just saying "no" if they are being über polite and gentle.
By the way O/T
How flipping fun is flirting as a girl?? LOVE IT.
Now if I could just perfect the flirt-divert....
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 12, 2013, 12:10:13 AM
I need to verse myself at handling this, too.
Usually I just end up trying to be polite- which for some reason almost always comes across as flirting... I always end up digging the hole deeper. Bleh.
Like, what am I supposed to say when it's a friend of a friend and they insist on exchanging numbers? A sarcastic and/or elegant response that dodges the topic would be what I am after. I have a really hard time just saying "no" if they are being über polite and gentle.
Exactly! I feel like I dug myself into a hole. And prolly flirted a little but not a lot. The guy was gross...but polite. The thing is maybe I needed the validation. I was hanging out with this trans girl I know, and she has mental problems, but the other day my Bf was at the movies so I was hanging out with her alone and I dressed up nice and really showed of my cleavage and she kept making these comments that I don't pass and nobody in the right mind would think I am a woman and it really upset me. I was down for like a day or two. I feel like I pass but sometimes you need outside velidation. I mean I do have my BF and all so that should be enough but I don't know.
I mean it was totally gross and inapporpriate but I really feel like I should have did something but I was so happy that I passed so well that I just kinda flirted. In the future, I should do something or learn to not be so so nice and scared of offending.
But yeah Jenny being a girl ROCKS!!!!!!! Girl Power lol
Quote from: learningtolive on August 12, 2013, 12:09:08 AM
That's odd. Where was your boyfriend throughout this? I would imagine he would say something to get these guys off of you. Was he there or did I misread something?
You misread it. I was out alone. It wouldn't have happened if he was there. Nobody hits on me when I am with him. He thought I was a lesbian at first and I did tell him I have a man.
Quote from: learningtolive on August 12, 2013, 12:09:08 AMI would have at least been very vocal about telling him to get his hands off and then pushed him off if he didn't follow through. You never know where he could have taken things and we have too many assaults in the trans community already
I kinda feel like that's what I should do but I wouldn't push andbody maybe slap his hands or something. I am really not that strong to push somebody off. I am like 5'5 on a good day and 128 lbs. I'm tiny. So I don't want to anger somebody. I don't know about assaults in the trans community. I feel like I pass well so it would be because I'm a woman not because I'm a trans woman. I would never let it get far enough that he would start feeling around my crotch. if I'm wearig skinny jeans he'd barely feel anything anyway before I slapped him. I'm really small there. Like an inch. Literally. I never virilzed like normal cis men.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 12, 2013, 12:37:35 AM
I mean I do have my BF and all so that should be enough but I don't know.
That's nothing to be ashamed of. Every girl loves to get nice compliments. (No difference with cis girls!)
Unfortunately I have nothing of an advise to give. I've never been to that situation; and even if it might not feel good, I'd love to share that experience with you...
That said, it's absolutely unapropriate behaviour touching somebody who did not invite you to do so.
Yeah, I understand you don't want to escalate the situation. Having said that, don't feel afraid to fight back if someone puts there hand on you. Assaults happen to both trans and cis women. The unfortunate numbers in the crime statistics don't lie. It sucks we need to be aware of this fact, but we do. I don't want to overstate anything, because most of the guys might not be problems and flirting isn't a crime, but those who put their hands on you are a problem.
As for the other guys, if you don't want the guys to continue, body language and not reciprocating the flirting will usually be enough. If he doesn't get the clue, you shouldn't be afraid to verbalize your discomfort. Some guys refuse to take no for an answer and need to be shown that no does in fact mean no. I haven't been in the situation myself, but I have enough girlfriends and grew up with sisters, so I have seen and picked up the usual dos and dont's.
By the way, I was looking at your avatar and noticed how much your progressing. Congrats! :)
the words "Don't touch me!" have always served me well
I would just ignore it. It is nice to get respectful compliments once in a while, but when they touch you without your permission, that is an absolute no-no!
If men do get too close, backing off or just briskly walking away is a good way to allay any potential disasters. While it is in our nature to love getting compliments, :-* we ladies still need to always be on our guard for some men who may have ulterior motives.
I have been in situations both good and bad when it comes to men. The important part is just learning to ignore it, especially when the men are just not that attractive anyways, or that you have a boyfriend already. Or even telling them that your married if needs be can be a good protection.
Quote from: learningtolive on August 12, 2013, 12:51:57 AM
By the way, I was looking at your avatar and noticed how much your progressing. Congrats! :)
Thanks. I am hoping now that in three weeks I will be six months on HRT that I will progress a lot more. They say that changes begin at six months. I started getting miss'd at 73 days and I def look a whole lot different but I want to be a little prettier. What girl doesn't lol
But I feel like I let that situation happen and didn't do anything because I needed the vaildation today. I wish I could be like passing doesn't matter but it does matter a lot to me. Luckily I guess I pass since today happened. I am actually pretty surprised. I guess stuff like this happens to a lot of women. And that's the thing: they know what to do. They have been dealing with it for a long time. I haven't. In many ways when you start to pass really well you get this whole other set of issues because all the sudden you are a woman and there is all these things I don't know. I am realizing there is alot more to being a woman then just being pretty and sensitive and emotional. I need to be strong too. Oh the travails of a trans woman lol
Quote from: Catalina on August 12, 2013, 01:25:50 AM
I would just ignore it. It is nice to get respectful compliments once in a while, but when they touch you without your permission, that is an absolute no-no!
I know that but women deal with this everyday. But they know how to deal with it. I feel like I am the sudden a woman and have all the troubles a woman had but exactly zero of the acquired knowledge of how to be a woman in the modern world and how to deal with touchy feely men. I certainly doubt I am the only woman who is demure. But I get ya.
Yeah, being thrown into the den of lions is not fun. At first, when I first began my transitioning stage, I really appreciated the attention that I was getting. But it got me into some interesting situations, that is for sure~!
I suppose that learning how to respond to men's affections or disaffections will come with experience, time, and observation. The female body is a aesthetically pleasing and beautiful to the eye, so don't be surprised if you find that there are people who are just appreciating your self, even if it may primarily come from a baser desire.
I first loved the attention, but I realised that it was also taking away from my own personal focus. At the start we may desire that validation, but eventually and essentially, that validation will come from ourselves and that made me a stronger woman. For me if I am just not interested, I would just look the other way if some man is gazing at me. OR if they ARE staring at me in interest, I look at them and that causes them some awkwardness.
OR if they are on the street and passing their gaze, then I let them and ignore it. And if they try to somehow say things to me, I let it brush aside and continue on with my day.
Unwanted attention is just not fun, because it can lead to misplacement of affection ('leading someone on'), or danger, or just awkwardness. If you ARE interested, I suppose that you can just go for it, lol. But I also remind myself, am I familiar with this person enough that he won't murder me for knowing my personal history? And that can help me come back to reality as well.
I have also received the other side of validation: when men from certain cultures talk to my male friends or whatnot instead of me, because of either an internal sense of sex-segregation, or just plain 'women speak less serious than men' kind of deal. Or assumed roles, characteristics, or mannerisms - simply because of my womanhood (being told that ladies do not eat in the public presence of others, etc.). I end up feeling ignored, but that is the reality of womankind.
Some good attention though, is seeing men being gentlemen and opening doors for you, or letting you sit on the bus over himself, or being polite to you on the street or in a store. Those are positive, safe and wonderful acts of validation for women like us!
Umm, punch him in the balls? ;)
Btw, regarding exchange of numbers... You dont have to give them the correct No. ya know ;).
Now I'm wondering how it would work to just explain, in frank language, why his actions are making you uncomfortable. Something like, Sir, I'm just going about my daily affairs; I have no time or interest in flirting, let alone cheating on my boyfriend, and to be frank your actions are making me very uncomfortable. Please be on your way and let me be on mine.
Being excessively innocent and a total airhead works for me. So far as a girl it hasn't happened (lol, I barely have an A cup and only because of the very stuffed bra, and I pass at best for an unfortunately unattractive girl, much older than I really am), but one summer, when I was, as a guy, working as a tourist guide, one or two people of each gender more or less flirted with me.
I was completely oblivious to it, kept being my usual nice and professional and clumsy self, and such, and relatively fast they thought I was dumb or something, or not into guys/girls (both false, haha), and gave up.
The key is not to ignore them. That may make them try harder, not to mention not everyone is able to simply ignore someone unless genuinely not noticing them (I can't anyway). It's to convince them by your actions that not only you're not remotely interested, but you can't in a hundred years begin to understand their intentions.
Of course with someone very pushy / very much in love that kind of strategy will fail, and then you'd have to say flat out that you're not interested. But I have a feeling it'll handle most.
I found a seemingly good tip on the web about talking to guys in a more human way, talk about normal stuff and they will see you as a normal human. I think it's true that guys do hype up women in their heads so that they really really like you. If you talk about normal stuff maybe that will change their perception and they can continue to talk with you more comfortably instead of pressing on and on and on.
I'm afraid that for the guys who always continue to press, there might be no other way than to be kinda rude.
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 12, 2013, 01:05:51 PM
I found a seemingly good tip on the web about talking to guys in a more human way, talk about normal stuff and they will see you as a normal human. I think it's true that guys do hype up women in their heads so that they really really like you. If you talk about normal stuff maybe that will change their perception and they can continue to talk with you more comfortably instead of pressing on and on and on.
I'm afraid that for the guys who always continue to press, there might be no other way than to be kinda rude.
That seems like a really good idea. I'll try it. I mean i want to be able to go out and not be hit one and harrsed by guys all the time. It seems really strange it even happened and guys find me attractive. I mean this guy thought I was really really pretty. He kept saying it. It was really validating. But it will get old and fast. It prolly won't happen again.
Quote from: ZoeM on August 12, 2013, 08:36:18 AM
Now I'm wondering how it would work to just explain, in frank language, why his actions are making you uncomfortable. Something like, Sir, I'm just going about my daily affairs; I have no time or interest in flirting, let alone cheating on my boyfriend, and to be frank your actions are making me very uncomfortable. Please be on your way and let me be on mine.
This actually seems like something I could do. I'm not big on physically trying to stop and won't be able to in any event. I want to be firm and strong but without being aggressive. As anytime I have been overly aggressive people just laugh.
Quote from: ZoeM on August 12, 2013, 08:36:18 AM
Now I'm wondering how it would work to just explain, in frank language, why his actions are making you uncomfortable. Something like, Sir, I'm just going about my daily affairs; I have no time or interest in flirting, let alone cheating on my boyfriend, and to be frank your actions are making me very uncomfortable. Please be on your way and let me be on mine.
Actually this one does work - since you do have a boy friend - it is a horrible thing about western society -the fact that you are "owned" by another man will get you left alone usually
this is a sad fact but it will help you get by - do use it
the other thing - do not engage if at all possible before you have to, as he was walking up to you and talking you should not have looked at him or acknowledged his existence at all, even looking in his direction allowed him to talk to you it was probably why he started
it is part of the maab training to look AT people while faab training is not to look people in the eye on the street and look straight ahead
do your best to completely ignore everything any one calls out to you as of they are not addressing you unless you actually KNOW them this is what cis womyn do if a man come after you run, blow a whistle, scream, throw your purse, kick him in some way draw attention.
be forward about what you don't want back.
Men like that are interested in submission, don't insult them but don't get walked all over.
As for the one that touched you? Call the cops. Anyone thats going to put their arms around you, hold your hand and kiss you when you don't even know his name? That's just a psycho.
Just found a good one for not giving out a phone number...
Tell them "I don't give out my number" or "I don't give out my number to people I don't know very well".
If they say "How am I supposed to get to know you if I don't have your number?"
Then you say "I guess we'll just have to wait until we run into each other again" and maybe add "It's something I do to protect my safety"
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 12, 2013, 01:43:17 PM
Just found a good one for not giving out a phone number...
Tell them "I don't give out my number" or "I don't give out my number to people I don't know very well".
If they say "How am I supposed to get to know you if I don't have your number?"
Then you say "I guess we'll just have to wait until we run into each other again" and maybe add "It's something I do to protect my safety"
I don't have THAT problem if someone has gotten so forceful hand I have to give a phone number I just give them my card, it directly states that I am a lesbian on it - not one single man that I have given my card to has called me back - I am certain every single one has looked at the card and thrown it directly in the trash ;D
Quote from: vegie271 on August 12, 2013, 01:55:30 PM
I don't have THAT problem if someone has gotten so forceful hand I have to give a phone number I just give them my card, it directly states that I am a lesbian on it - not one single man that I have given my card to has called me back - I am certain every single one has looked at the card and thrown it directly in the trash ;D
No this guy yesterday thought I was a dyke. I had androgynous cordoroy pants on and a hat so I prolly gave off that vibe. I guess I look gay. I'm not. At all. At first I thought he knew I was a guy bet then it became apparent what he meant.
really I feel like an idiot for letting this happen. I just feel weak and defenseless. I understand how a woman would get raped and not say anything now. This situation obviously is not comaparable but I think the feeling weak and unable to do something is similar.
I mean I just need to watch it because of some guys are finding me that attractive that stuff like this happens and half the guys I walk past feel the need to chat me up, I could get in a bad situation one day and need to be able to cut it off before it starts. It's great I pass so well and that I am pretty to some people, but it's hard for me to see it and it catches me off guard. I was completely caught off guard yesterday.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 12, 2013, 02:14:05 PM
No this guy yesterday thought I was a dyke. I had androgynous cordoroy pants on and a hat so I prolly gave off that vibe. I guess I look gay. I'm not. At all. At first I thought he knew I was a guy bet then it became apparent what he meant.
really I feel like an idiot for letting this happen. I just feel weak and defenseless. I understand how a woman would get raped and not say anything now. This situation obviously is not comaparable but I think the feeling weak and unable to do something is similar.
I mean I just need to watch it because of some guys are finding me that attractive that stuff like this happens and half the guys I walk past feel the need to chat me up, I could get in a bad situation one day and need to be able to cut it off before it starts. It's great I pass so well and that I am pretty to some people, but it's hard for me to see it and it catches me off guard. I was completely caught off guard yesterday.
It took me a while to adjust to the fact that men find me attractive also - I get the idea that If they are straight they with go after anything they think has a vagina - especially if you are a lesbian - you see I AM a lesbian and I am an OUT lesbian - this actually bring on advances of certain men either 1) can I watch you and your girlfriend or B) will you have 3 some with me and MY girlfriend
this might be why he came after you, they do do this - I get a lot of this - one guy came after me so much he ended up grabbing me on the street one day & the police did nothing about it. (it was after this I bought my stun gun)
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 12, 2013, 02:14:05 PM
really I feel like an idiot for letting this happen. I just feel weak and defenseless. I understand how a woman would get raped and not say anything now. This situation obviously is not comaparable but I think the feeling weak and unable to do something is similar.
Cant You get angry on them? Or at least try to create mentally disgusting image of theirs with such qualities which should trigger extreme disgust, anger and fury (demonise them). Once the anger is in, You should be on the right track, sending different vibe, plus it might resonate with what is left of T in our systems - You know that "fight or flight" mode.
Jab to throat followed by a rear naked choke. Usually does the trick. If someone touches me, and it is unwanted, all bets are off.
And yes, I've have punched a guy for touching me w/o asking. I might be a girl... but I sure as heck don't hit like one. ;)
I hate punches, btw. One moron once tried to headbutt me, but his intentions were so obvious that my forearm and elbow met his jaw and K.O. him out... and I was trying to be careful... (I used to play with those cylindrical boxing heavybags - I could barely move them with my punches, but my elbow sent them dangling in their chains each and everytime, and I was barely under 80kg then).
So, if any moron now would put his face too close with whatever bad intentions he might have... I can still do that.
Quote from: -Emily- on August 12, 2013, 05:03:38 PM
Cant You get angry on them? Or at least try to create mentally disgusting image of theirs with such qualities which should trigger extreme disgust, anger and fury (demonise them). Once the anger is in, You should be on the right track, sending different vibe, plus it might resonate with what is left of T in our systems - You know that "fight or flight" mode.
actually it is hard - cis men are faster - usually at least with me - bigger - and they are certainly more aggressive - it is the reason for the stun gun now. and why I am at this point so angry and get triggered so easily - when I got assaulted and raped the police just laughed it off (only 3% of rapes get convictions)
Quote from: -Emily- on August 12, 2013, 05:03:38 PM
Cant You get angry on them? Or at least try to create mentally disgusting image of theirs with such qualities which should trigger extreme disgust, anger and fury (demonise them). Once the anger is in, You should be on the right track, sending different vibe, plus it might resonate with what is left of T in our systems - You know that "fight or flight" mode.
I have trouble becoming angry. I actually don't think I can anymore. I just get upset. But i can certainly show someone I'm upset. But I'm sure if something progressed too far I would get angry. I hope. The only time in my life I could get angry is when drunk.
Quote from: vegie271 on August 12, 2013, 05:46:25 PM
When I got assaulted and raped the police just laughed it off (only 3% of rapes get convictions)
That's horrid. The police in Philly are much better. The one encounter I had with them they were so so so nice to me. It really changed my perception of the police. They were mad at first but that's because they thought I was being crude by saying I'm a man. Then they thought I must be post-op. Finally I showed them my ID and stuff and told them I am a pre-op transsexual and they believed me and asked what pro-nouns I wanted used and if I wanted to be called a different name. After that I started presenting female as I figured if I had to prove I was male to five police officers I must be passing. I'm really sorry that happened to you.
Quote from: JennX on August 12, 2013, 05:33:59 PM
Jab to throat followed by a rear naked choke. Usually does the trick. If someone touches me, and it is unwanted, all bets are off.
And yes, I've have punched a guy for touching me w/o asking. I might be a girl... but I sure as heck don't hit like one. ;)
seconded. RNC for the win!
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 12, 2013, 05:56:24 PM
I have trouble becoming angry. I actually don't think I can anymore. I just get upset. But i can certainly show someone I'm upset. But I'm sure if something progressed too far I would get angry. I hope. The only time in my life I could get angry is when drunk.
That's horrid. The police in Philly are much better. The one encounter I had with them they were so so so nice to me. It really changed my perception of the police. They were mad at first but that's because they thought I was being crude by saying I'm a man. Then they thought I must be post-op. Finally I showed them my ID and stuff and told them I am a pre-op transsexual and they believed me and asked what pro-nouns I wanted used and if I wanted to be called a different name. After that I started presenting female as I figured if I had to prove I was male to five police officers I must be passing. I'm really sorry that happened to you.
not here - my ID reads F ok - my name is proper on my birth certificate - I went to court and did everything right 6 years ago! - I am only male on my birth certificate and at the time was male on federal forms (now I am female federally even)
even so he misgendered me on the the report stated it was a male on male attack - basically I was just a cross dresser to him
this is not the first time I have been hated upon by this department
Quote from: vegie271 on August 12, 2013, 07:37:19 PM
not here - my ID reads F ok - my name is proper on my birth certificate - I went to court and did everything right 6 years ago! - I am only male on my birth certificate and at the time was male on federal forms (now I am female federally even)
even so he misgendered me on the the report stated it was a male on male attack - basically I was just a cross dresser to him
this is not the first time I have been hated upon by this department
Well I hope you can move soon. You don't deserve that. No one does. I'm so sorry. How horrid.
Ignoring is the first step.
If he tries to touch you, etc, speak out loud, that will draw attention on him and he will leave.
Quote from: Saffron on August 13, 2013, 12:20:16 PM
Ignoring is the first step.
If he tries to touch you, etc, speak out loud, that will draw attention on him and he will leave.
The one thing I neglected to mention is that this was in a bad part of town that I have to travel through. The one time I bi-passed it I got stopped by the police as stop-and-frisk is enforced here. They wouldn't frisk me though and started calling a female officer. Blah, blah, blah. I convinced them I was a guy and then they asked why I did't just walk the regular way and I said because when I do I get propositioned all the time. If it was just words, I wouldn't care. But this isn't the first time this has happened. There was another time and this guy was all frisky but I managed to snake my way out of it. What I usually do is just walk faster.
That being said I should try to just ignore men. Just walk through and don't acknowledge anyone. I don't have to go thru here much so maybe it is academic. I think in a couple months I'll never have to pass here again!!!! woo hoo. If you want to know where I am at, look up Kensington and Somerset. If you look it up, i think a lot of people will realize why I worry about passing so much. I'm sure it gets annoying to some posters.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 13, 2013, 01:02:30 PM
The one thing I neglected to mention is that this was in a bad part of town that I have to travel through. The one time I bi-passed it I got stopped by the police as stop-and-frisk is enforced here. They wouldn't frisk me though and started calling a female officer. Blah, blah, blah. I convinced them I was a guy and then they asked why I did't just walk the regular way and I said because when I do I get propositioned all the time. If it was just words, I wouldn't care. But this isn't the first time this has happened. There was another time and this guy was all frisky but I managed to snake my way out of it. What I usually do is just walk faster.
That being said I should try to just ignore men. Just walk through and don't acknowledge anyone. I don't have to go thru here much so maybe it is academic. I think in a couple months I'll never have to pass here again!!!! woo hoo. If you want to know where I am at, look up Kensington and Somerset. If you look it up, i think a lot of people will realize why I worry about passing so much. I'm sure it gets annoying to some posters.
once the fourth and fifth amendment go out I leave a place period - if I am assumed to a a criminal I do not stay in a place period, I never even talk to the police in our town, when one stops me my first question is "am I being detained" if he says no I say "thank you may I go now" and he says "yes" and I leave, after my rape and the subsequent consequences I STOPPED being cooperative with them! I never call them I never do anything they want!
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 13, 2013, 01:02:30 PM
I convinced them I was a guy and then they asked why I did't just walk the regular way and I said because when I do I get propositioned all the time.
Wait, what?
1. What's walking the normal way?
2. People hit on you because of the way you walk?
3. Wait, the police arrested you because you walked weird to them? Lol, don't they have a job to do?
Quote from: A on August 13, 2013, 09:49:57 PM
Wait, what?
1. What's walking the normal way?
2. People hit on you because of the way you walk?
3. Wait, the police arrested you because you walked weird to them? Lol, don't they have a job to do?
I should have wrote that sentence better. I wasn't arrested. I was adjusting myself when I thought no one was looking. But the police were looking. I was on a main street but I walked a different route (that was out of the way) to avoid being propositioned as I wasn't in the mood. They stopped me because they thought I was shoving drugs in my imaginary vagina.
So it did have nothing to do with the way I walk. But actually my BF did say he saw me from afar and said I walk really femininely and that I look very approachable and pleasant and cute with an emphasis on pleasant. It was the whole reason he wanted to talk to me. So I think maybe the way I carry myself does draw men for some reason. It drew him. And I met him near the same place so if guys just didn't hit on me at all I'd be a lot less happy right now.
Sometimes I write and it makes sense to me but no one else lol sorry bout dat!
I see. It makes a bit more sense, but still those policemen were rather paranoid, eh?
And you make me wonder about how I walk. Because of how my feet are weird and I need ortheses for it, apparently I walk really weird according to my mother. I wonder if I come off as a weirdo. Honestly I don't notice anything weird about how I walk. x.x
Well today I was waiting for the El train and this guy starts staring at me intently. I think I'm clocked. Then I say "What?" And he says "You know what. You're sexy as fu*k. You have a boyfriend?" So I say kinda because i kinda have a boyfriend but it's complicated. It was probably the wrong answer but it wouldn't have matter. He then proceeds to tell me again how sexy I am and how hot my little perky tits are and how tight my cute lil butt is and all this other stuff. I mean yeah it was very flattering. He then asks me to get a drink. I tell I don't think si cause I'd feel guilty about my BF trying to be nice. He then says he doesn't give a F*** about my BF and that he wants to tke me back to his place and F*** my brains out. That I'm the sexiest little thing. So I move away from him but he moves next to me again and behind me and starts grabbing my butt. So I move away and tell him to stop. The train comes. I get one and he tries to sit next to me but I sat next to this girl.
So now I'm scared. I text my BF to tell him Im frightened but he is on a bus going to see his parents in Scranton. So not much he can do. I get off the train and he follows me. Then as I am going thru the revolving gate he snakes his way into the same spoke (or whatever it'c called) as me. So I start walking faster and he tried to ge tme to slow down in this hallway where no one else is. Now I'm really scared cause I can easily be overpowered. But I make it outside and he again tels me to come get a drink with him. I again tell him I would feel too guilty and I don't want to. Now I want to run. But I just keep walking faster and finally he backs off and turns around.
I just don't understand how this keeps happening. I dealth with it a lot better today. And besides him grabbing my butt it was just a man being a man. I think he was a little tipsy or had been drinking. On the one hand, it makes me feel flattered that men find me this attractive. And apparently sexy. Guys say Hi to me all the time. They constantyl stare and smile. And yeah I love that I pass this well and can get men. But I really need a taser or something because I did better today not actively encouraging it by accident and the guy wasn't bad looking. But I did get really scared for a bit. Maybe I shouldn't have. Women do deal with this. I visit women only forums and this happens. Women get their ass grabbed. This is how guys are. Well some. I am happy that I did better today though. But it's obvioulsy going to keep happening and I need to be prepared.
I know some of you will think I should punch him or do this or that or go to the police. But I'm not going to go to the police unless someone does soemthing really unwarranted like grabbing my crotch or boobs. Yeah he grabbed my butt but I don't know. It was just a little pinch really.
But then I start to feel bad because I don't like hurting people's feelings or making someone feel unattractive. he did get this puppy dog look. The other thing is if I didn't have a boyfriend and he was just a little less creepy I would have got a drink.
But how do ya'll think I dealth with this situation today? I think I improved. But I guess this is what happens when you reach male fail mode and are cute (or sexy). I wans't even wearing a bra. Maybe that had something to do with it and I should stop doing that. Do you think that could be a reason. But then again I do like men and do like some of the attention just not the creepers.
I am always sorry to hear when people get really hit on like that. This type of guy is immature, and lacks class. If you have an ear piece with a cell phone you might try "Hello, 911 operator, I am being accosted by a rapist, or something like that. Another is to say my boyfriend is a cop and he has a really bad temper. Third, get a tazer or pepper spray. or a tazer that sprays pepper spray. Just tell the cops you were in fear for your life and thought he was a sexual predator. Take some self defense courses.
Don't be afraid to give a solid, "no." Some men just don't get it unless you very clearly reject them.
Well I did say no but it prolly wasn't forceful enough. I have a real problem being too nice and worry about hrting people's feelings. Like today i was talking to my BF and I was telling him about this friend(?) I have and she won't hang out with me unless I have money and buy her drinks AND give her gas money. And it's more gas money then to just cover picking me up. I could understand that. But the last time I talked to her she lept buggin me to ask my mom to give me money so we could hang out. The thing is she probably has money. She just wants to use it on her. And my BF said stop calling her your friend she is a lowlife. And he's right cause I offered for her to come over my house and my mom had beer we could drink and she wouldn't come over because "she wants to go out." I think she has Borderline Personality Disorder. I could understand buying her drinks once in awhile but having to pay for all of em. No. Now that I have my BF I don't hang out with her. She rarely calls only when she is not busy. But then id she needs to talk she rings my phone off the hook.
The point is I have trouble telling her listen You never buy me drinks. I mean plus I am not even a guy anymore. I am hormonally a woman. And I look like a woman. I don't look like a man at all. So I mean it's not like I am trying toget into her pants. heck i made out with her once and that was because she jumped all over me. She does this with everyone though. But I can't be mean. I'm a nice girl. That is the good thing lately I am really starting to view myself as a woman. I was having trouble with that but I really view myself this way now.
But I guess my problem is not being able to be mean. Or just be forceful. i am to worried about hhurting people's feelings. I have always been like this. I aim to please lol and with my boyfriend it's on my knees! heheheh I love being a woman!
Joanna, sorry but I just have to be blunt with this.
Please, stop acting like a girl with those men and Your toxic girlfriend and start acting instead like a lady :). I understand very well that You are going through this second puberty (I am pretty much 100% sure I know what You mean when You say this and that, because umm.. I have the same atm), but... we both are in our 30-ties (of course, You have a positive advantage over me here :), but that imposes certain standards and obligations, including behaviour and manners ;). Trust me, You can be that cold blooded, no-nonsense bi..ch and THIS CAN BE FUN TOO :). Besides, guys are going to feel that with their guts and keep their hands away of You. Just like a makeup it is a matter of practice, but once You got it, it comes out pretty natural (just as everything else, including giggles and whatnot :P)
cis-straight privilege:
#umpteen and one - at some point growing up, someone gave me a gender-appropriate crash course in the breeding behaviors of our species with emphasis on personal safety and reproductive success.
Unwanted, intentional physical contact is never okay. Accidental contact without immediate apology isn't acceptable either. Also, this should a no-victim-blaming zone.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 21, 2013, 11:51:40 PM
It was just a little pinch really.
No not really.
So, someone's going to have to explain the linkage rule to me. I'd like to personally recommend Kathy Jackson's
Cornered Cat (dot com). It's a site and a book about practical self-defense from a female perspective. She is pro-gun, enthusiastically so, and I understand that isn't an option for everyone, but her articles on mindset, well... she convinced me. At a time in my life where I was trying pretty desperately (pathetically) to be macho, true, but hers were the arguments that stuck with me.
Quote from: -Emily- on August 22, 2013, 01:42:12 AM
we both are in our 30-ties (of course, You have a positive advantage over me here :), but that imposes certain standards and obligations, including behaviour and manners ;). Trust me, You can be that cold blooded, no-nonsense bi..ch and THIS CAN BE FUN TOO :). Besides, guys are going to feel that with their guts and keep their hands away of You. Just like a makeup it is a matter of practice, but once You got it, it comes out pretty natural (just as everything else, including giggles and whatnot :P)
I really don't think I can be like that. And more then that, I don't want to be. I like who I am. I like being nice. I like being generous. It is in my very nature. And even if I wanted to be cold-blooded, I really couldn't do that without sacrificing core aspects of my personality that I hold dear. I don't like being a door mat, and I am working on that, but one of things that is really attractive about me, is how pleasent a person I am. I'm an emptathtic, kind, sweet woman and I really don't think I should change that because I run into creepos every now and then. I should re-read the Good Girl's Guide to Negotiating. It was written by a woman just like me to teach others how to be more forceful without becoming a biotch. I do appreciate your advice. I really do. It's just not me. I've always been like this. I used to write these newspapers when I was like 10 and I read them I realized that I have always been this person. the whole thing was about cheering on my friends and supporting them and helping them see that they have great qualities. But I will try to find a middle ground. Being too forceful just doesn't work for me either as I am 5'5 but really 5'4 and 128 lbs. I'm absolutely tiny.
Quote from: musicofthenight on August 22, 2013, 02:07:14 AM
I'd like to personally recommend Kathy Jackson's Cornered Cat (dot com). It's a site and a book about practical self-defense from a female perspective. She is pro-gun, enthusiastically so, and I understand that isn't an option for everyone, but her articles on mindset, well... she convinced me. At a time in my life where I was trying pretty desperately (pathetically) to be macho, true, but hers were the arguments that stuck with me.
I will read that. Thanks you so much!
Joanna, I did not imply that You dont have to be open, sweet and caring. This all is actually about boundaries, setting them firmly and maintaining with a smile. In my official capacity I often have to participate in working groups and meetings, where at least 50% of attendants are men and they like to clash horns almost about everything. Of course, they see me as male and maybe that adds some privilege to what I am saying to them – but I do get interrupted and that annoys me as much as any other girl – but the way I talk with them is not the confrontation, but rather subtle manipulation. First, I make impression that I agree with what they said in general – it usually softens them up and they feel appreciated and then I go, point by point, indicating where they have been wrong – not trying to insult them or show them as morons (sometimes they are though...). If I would have to deal with someone on the street, I would, of course, omit the smile, because that would be seen as some sort of encouragement, but I would not flip them off either. It would be an attitude like: ,,So, what is Your problem (I just shift their mind into situation that they DO have a problem and ask them to start thinking about that) and why I am supposed to even be here and talking to You?" If they reply that they do not have any problems, then I would say ,,Oh, nice! I am really happy for You (a bit of irony here). Neither do, I! Take care" and just go away. Then reach for Your cell phone and pretend that I am dialling a number – or wave at someone on the street, like I just saw an aquaintaince and just head away from the guy. It can be very subtle, simple and cold-blooded .
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 21, 2013, 11:51:40 PM
I just don't understand how this keeps happening. I dealth with it a lot better today. And besides him grabbing my butt it was just a man being a man.
I felt the need to state something. This was not a man being a man... this was a douchebag being an ->-bleeped-<- and violating your personal space without consent. Any man who feels justified in those kinds of actions deserves to have the cops called on him.
Edit; should be anyone also, douchebaggery is not limited to only men, just far more prevalent.
Quote from: Murbella on August 23, 2013, 06:45:00 AM
I felt the need to state something. This was not a man being a man... this was a douchebag being an ->-bleeped-<- and violating your personal space without consent. Any man who feels justified in those kinds of actions deserves to have the cops called on him.
Edit; should be anyone also, douchebaggery is not limited to only men, just far more prevalent.
No idea whats going on in this topic, but I am going to have to agree with Murbella that anyone who behaves like this is a pleb, and you shouldn't give them a chance but that is me.
Quote from: Murbella on August 23, 2013, 06:45:00 AM
I felt the need to state something. This was not a man being a man... this was a douchebag being an ->-bleeped-<- and violating your personal space without consent. Any man who feels justified in those kinds of actions deserves to have the cops called on him.
Edit; should be anyone also, douchebaggery is not limited to only men, just far more prevalent.
Amen!
Quote from: Catalina on August 12, 2013, 03:16:30 AM
I first loved the attention, but I realised that it was also taking away from my own personal focus. At the start we may desire that validation, but eventually and essentially, that validation will come from ourselves and that made me a stronger woman. For me if I am just not interested, I would just look the other way if some man is gazing at me. OR if they ARE staring at me in interest, I look at them and that causes them some awkwardness.
Yes, Catalina. That is what I have learned so far. Usually people respect me whether they recognize me as a man or a woman. When wearing 5 inch heels, my height look like 6 feet and 5 inch (196 cm), and very few men dare to speak to me. But some people try to joke or speak to me when I run for exercise while wearing short pants. This happened to me even in foreign countries. I just ignore them. Some of my friends, regardless of their gender, touch my legs when they are drunken. No sexual intention, and I think it is just for curiosity.
Joanna, you seem to live in a dangerous place. I would not like and live a place where I should consider learning self-defense.
barbie~~
Quote from: barbie on August 23, 2013, 01:37:17 PM
Joanna, you seem to live in a dangerous place. I would not like and live a place where I should consider learning self-defense.
Yeah the majority of this stuff happens when I am in a not-so-good neighborhood, Kensington. I unfortunately have to go there sometimes and this is where the majority of things like this happening. I am going to try and take Emily's advice and become more forceful and stren with men when this happens. Going to the police isn't an option as they are more concerned with all the murdering and robbery and heroin dealing then some randomwoman getting her ass grabbed. Plus, I really don't enjoy outing myself if I don't have to. If he grabbed my breasts, that would be a whole different thing. It isn't right in any event and I know that, but I just don't know how to handle these situations. I imagine stuff like this happens at bars too so I need to learn how to deal with it. I may ask my sister in law as she is model pretty so I am sure she has been approached by forward men before.
Again, flirting is fine. Sexual harassment, stalking and making lewd comments in public is not. You can be a sweet girl 99 percent of the time, but you can't be passive in these moments. If a guy grabs you or follows you, make a scene. It's better to feel a little embarrassed and safe than being harmed. And any guy that introduces himself by making vile sexual remarks deserves to be put down. I can understand feeling bad rejecting a nice guy, but this is a different story. Believe me, every single other girl is going to respond negatively towards being told how they were going to get their brains f***** out. You won't look weird for having a hostile reaction.
Unfortunately/Fortunately I don't have this problem, 99% of men wouldn't touch me with a bargepole or even think about thinking flirting with me, unless seriously inebriated. Walk around everywhere fast, listen to music, look focused on where you're going and it'll make you a lot less approachable, if that's the desired effect - believe me, I'm an expert at repelling men ;)
Quote from: Oriah on August 12, 2013, 01:00:21 AM
the words "Don't touch me!" have always served me well
LOL! I had to resort to that one just recently.