Seriously, have you prepared yourself for the aspects of your gender that prior to transition you would have not had to confront?
What I am referring to, is all the baggage, all the garbage, all the bias, all the discrimination, all the stereotyping, all the excesses and the abuses and the risks.
Because we don't get to just waltz in and cherry pick all the good stuff of course.
A girls life is NOT the same as a guys life.
If you are MTF, you will gain some things, and LOSE some things.
If you are FTM, again, you WILL gain some things, but you DO risk losing some stuff.
I grew up in a quasi military reality because of my interests. In the form of a male, well there were a variety of situations a guy can expect. It has not always been the case where women were altogether welcome in the military, and frankly they still really are second class members in the good ole boy club that is the military.
I don't recall females getting drafted much in the past. I am sure a few countries expect service from females. But that is also a guess.
In a crunch, in a situation where you suddenly find yourself in a nation at war, a male will suddenly be confronted with a different reality than a female in most cases. I suppose it depends on how you see military service. Being male during the Vietnam era was a lot different than being female.
I have a friend that is MTF, and has work that involves wandering around various parts of the world for the company securing company property. Every time she enters a male centric society her being MTF is a mixed bag of conditions. Sometimes what is between your legs is a bonus and sometimes it is a burden.
The working world is full of biases we normally just never see for what they are. Every time I walk into a fast food store, seeing a male at the counter always seems 'odd'. It always looks 'odd' seeing a male cashier at a grocery store. Waitresses seem ordinary, waiters not. Male bartenders seem ordinary female ones not. I don't see a lot of female mechanics or plumbers or electricians or welders. You don't see a lot of men sitting behind a reception desk. If two men and 3 women enter a plane in company uniforms, odds are the two men fly the plane the others are stewardesses.
And while it might just might be ok to say well women are built smaller and all that stuff and don't have as easy a time being firefighters. Well a MTF might have the original mass of a male, but don't think anyone is likely to care. Because is you identify as female, you will be regarded as one if they really consider you as one, which won't always be an ideal response.
Right now, there are a lot of places I can just walk into, that I will not be welcome the moment I'm wearing a dress.
I recently asked my mother if they would accept me in the Women of the Moose? She is a long time member of this fraternity and so was my father. They have both held fairly high office. But nope, the response she gave me, was I had zero chance of joining. Maybe she was being a bit too sure of that, but, it did ring true. But I told her, the idea of joining the Moose Lodge ie as a male member was crazy. I have no interest in hanging out with old men. Not that I reeeeeally wanted to join, but, I felt it might get me more social activities. I also thought the idea of going to meetings all dressed up sounded nice. I kind of liked the idea of being expected to be in a dress as the meetings have dress codes.
Bars have ladies nights. I am not sure how that would routinely go.
I know some places are so desperate for attention, that ladies are free, as they use ladies to attract guys that are expected to pay for admission to the event and or location. Again, no idea how that might fly for MTF. You sure no if you are passing as female, if you can walk into an event/location for free and not pay for your drinks.
On the one hand, FTM persons want to be taken seriously, and on the other hand, sometimes being taken seriously means you get to participate in something that might involve a price. Women and children first is an indication that men are likely going to go last if at all.
Some cultures just plain don't value one of the genders, and it's basically females that get the short end of the stick. In the blistering heat a man can take off his shirt and not need to really care. It is nothing for a guy to walk topless down the street in 100 degree weather with their shirt stuck in a back pocket or carried otherwise. Women, even if legally permitted to walk topless, will not be casually unnoticed. And of course if you are MTF and lack breasts, well, it sure makes a mess of your situation if you think you can express your rights to be topless like the other women.
A man can walk into a coffee shop in work clothes that are clearly grubby and in rotten shape and be mostly bedraggled looking hair under a helmet that is a total mess and not feel the slightest bit out of place. He's after all, just a man getting coffee for the crew. Now if a woman walks into the same store like that, she is going to attract stares regardless. We just expect women to be clean and presentable. If they are not, we look down on them.
Both genders have a long list of advantages, but they also have a long list of disadvantages.
Are you really ready to willingly walk into all of the disadvantages, which are unlikely to be going anywhere any time soon.
One of the most interesting discussions I have is the future.
Do you really want to be a woman? (Yes I know that is loaded)
After session one I can usually tell. Session two is explaining what will happen to them, session three is finding out if session one and two made any impact.
I say in three, do you really want to do your make up every day, do you really want to do your hair every day, do you really want to lose male privilege, do you really want to wear female clothes every day and they are just clothes, do you really want guys looking at you, do you really want to go to bed at night as a woman, do you really want to spend every single moment from this for the rest of your life as a woman? Do you wish to go into aged care as a female?
None of the questions are inclusive or exclusive. They are there for a person to think what the consequences are.
No more no less.
I don't want them to answer those questions in front of me.
They do that in session four.
Then I pass them on with recommendations.
You have a point that there are advantages and disadvantages. I don't think they are enough to warrant anyone rethinking whether they want to be true to themselves. Also, I don't value a large percentage of the "advantages" that men get, so I'm sure that most MTFs would feel the same. Its an easy decision if all that is keeping me from being a woman are these "disadvantages."
You raise some valid points. All of us should be thinking about how the world is going to change for us as we reach the point where we can drop our 'man mask' or 'woman mask' and be ourselves for real. Unexpected things are very likely to crop up as different. I will definately have to fight harder to progress in my chosen professional field, but I don't think it's insurmountable. If I turn out to be wrong, I'll work out something else, I've done the secretarial bit while wearing my man mask before and it wasn't too onerous.
But after all - do we have a choice? I know there is always a choice, but You do not always get to outlive trying those "alternatives". I often think - can I reverse this whole thing? Making just one person suffer instead of affecting lives of more than one? Having experienced the effects of E in my system, can I return into male shell and shut everything down? I cant exist as an effeminate guy - the concept just disgusts me (no offence meant), but if I have to present myself as male, then I would rather be sort of macho (without womanising, mysogynia and bullying - just tight, sharp, professional, "no nonsense/straight to the point/take your crap elsewhere and just listen to me" sort of guy) - going for anything less just triggers that inherent insecurity inside of me - and I am fully aware why for my whole life I felt insecure as a male - because I never was a male, just a presentation. Yet, that would mean for me shutting all my emotional world down again and I just cant...
So, in short, NO, I am not ready for negatives, but I have no other choice. I have to finish the journey I started to see what awaits me behind that corner.
We don't get a choice in who we are, of course not.
Choices and Consequences. Causes and effects. We need to be thinking about those more than most people, if you're anything like me the trick is getting your brain to shut the hell up about it for a few hours. But, as you point out, the consequences of turning back from the road forward are even more unbearable than the road itself.
MTA? Male to androgynous? Guess this is correct.
Anyway, while I am not going to make the pointless comment I don't think a person CAN be a not either, because some clearly can be. But I suppose it's like with role game alignments, I don't permit players to be neutral. But I suppose I live in a black and white world, a good or bad reality to some extent.
I was born in this damned male form, and I have lived 50 years in a male realm. There are so many facets of male existence, some will like them, some will not. My list of likes and dislikes is a very long list.
Fate has prevented me from ever knowing so many of the facets of female life. Moments of time you experience as you grow older. I am starting this journey, and the film is already more than half over. I will really only be encountering the life of a female my age, minus a few experiences I am simply unable to replicate.
I will be honest, I simply can't comprehend the androgynous experience. I think the people around me, if not given a distinct female presentation to lock onto, would just consider me male otherwise. I can't picture being referred to as androgynous.
I believe it is much easier to be FTA than MTA, because androgyny essentially was about girls using male presentation and passing as boys/young men. It is easier for girls than guys - unless we talk about teenage persons, since as soon as Your puberty is over, it is quite difficult for a man to pass as someone in between (with few exceptions excluded as always). So for me, Andro presentation is mostly about clothing - I wear male pieces of clothing which given their cut or color could be perceived as being good for women too - slim-fit jeans, V-collar T-shirts, tees with shorter sleeves, sleeveless vests etc.
There are Positives and Negatives to "Everything" in life, not just transitioning.
Its best not to spend too much time worrying about them. Keep moving forward and just live your life.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on August 13, 2013, 08:58:08 AM
There are Positives and Negatives to "Everything" in life, not just transitioning.
Its best not to spend too much time worrying about them. Keep moving forward and just live your life.
That's exactly the goal! Though, like most goals, it's easier said than done. Keeping the lid shut on the demons screaming my insecurities into my brain requires a bigger crowbar than usual some days. But any progress is better than none! Onward!
Sure I know they are going to be negatives. When I decided to I was going to do this I knew they would be negatives but I'm ok with them. Not because of the positives outweighing the negatives.
But because I'm a woman and I feel I must live my life as a woman and no amount of negatives will stop me. ;)
Quote from: Heather on August 13, 2013, 09:28:53 AM
Sure I know they are going to be negatives. When I decided to I was going to do this I knew they would be negatives but I'm ok with them. Not because of the positives outweighing the negatives.
But because I'm a woman and I feel I must live my life as a woman and no amount of negatives will stop me. ;)
I don't think I could put it any better than that ^_^
Currently the only negative that usually occurs to me, is getting into a vehicle, in a dress or skirt, and ensuring the vehicle isn't a garbage heap of things to ruin a nice piece of clothing and of course the actual act of getting into a vehicle while wearing a dress or skirt and not letting everyone know what your panties look like.
And the hassle of footwear, seeing as I live a life of extensive walking, which means finding attractive shoes meant to WALK in not just scoot from a car to a short distance destination.
And I am very self conscious of my waist measurements. I'm very annoyed with my lack of a bust thanks to how it impacts what tops will look nice.
I'm not overly concerned about presenting as female and walking alone at night in the dark. Anyone thinking I am an easy target will be meeting my custom made cane up side the head :) A hickory sledge hammer handle will do a lot of damage :)
Being FtN, and I mean really, not just staying away from ultra-femme presentation, is nothing but negatives. Your gender doesn't even exist in the minds of most people, so they aren't even equipped to acknowledge you as trying to even be something. You have to pretend to be in a transitory phase for medical treatment, and everyone else will always see you as being in limbo. I've said it lots of times, but it always bears repeating: there is no passing. There aren't a ton of negatives, but never being able to pass encompasses all of them. The only positive that I can see is being able to be comfortable in my own skin.
To some extent, society will definitely FORCE some things on us.
If I were to claim I was neutral, and I did nothing overtly to be male or female and just wore clothing that was blandly in the middle, the moment it actually mattered, oh you can bet I'd be solidly male and nothing else at all.
I can make a case of being female, if I dress the part, and I clearly go the lengths needed to make it clear I am not joking about it. After all, society is what it is, and no one is going to think I would subject myself to all the negativity for nothing. And even if fate is mean to me, and denies me the chance to change that one damned part, I can at least state, 'well I wouldn't have this part if I could afford to get rid of it'.
But to not get rid of the parts, and just claim that they don't bother me, it would not help my case any. To make no effort to be female, would make me only appear to be an odd un guy like man. But in the end, they would call me just that, just an un guy like MAN. I'd only get treated like an un woman like woman, if I had been given female parts in the beginning and were walking the path of neutral.
Society does indeed put up barriers to us in the form of solid rigid inflexible assumptions. Men are this and females are this. People are used to picking, and it is just a case that in a video of someone dressed in a neutral fashion and not able to get a firm lock on us, they might be disinclined to make specific hard statements if the identity was vague. Fine if all you need to pass a test with is blurry security cams.
I walk down the street and I expect to be able to point to my jewellery and my purse and the fact I will smell feminine and tell a person, no I am NOT a man. I don't care what they think of my voice or my male pattern hair loss. I am perfectly ok with responding with, 'see that person, that's not my idea of a woman either, but I bet she would be surprised to her that too'.
I think walking the neutral path is possibly akin to driving without insurance. Hey you might go years and never once need it. But he second push comes to shove, you might find yourself being forced into realizing something that might be hard to deny. The moment a person truly needs to prove something, it's going to matter what society says, and our own opinion might have very little weight.
I am not sure, I don't have one, but I suspect a driver's license for instance, likely will state we are either female or male. I don't think we get to pick A for androgynous. That may well be the biggest negative to being neutral of gender, the notion that society simply might refuse to accept the choice is even a choice at all.
Hey I am not saying it is a fair thing. Just mentioning it might be just the way society would deal with it.
If I arrive at a hospital emergency ward, I want them to know my blood type and a name that will actually be on some records somewhere.
I carry around my old army dogtags for this reason. One in my wallet and one on a key chain. One way or anther, if someone were to discover me and I was unable to communicate, they will at least know useful information. Being misgendered won't be one of my concerns.
It won't be a tragedy if I am wearing a skirt and they see that I have anatomical attributes of a male and consider me a man. I would be able to deal with coming to in a room where it was me and patients that were men instead of other women.
But that is just one of countless possible scenarios.
Ideally I want to be female to a point that if discovered unconscious, I won't need to explain later I was a woman regardless of certain aspects. But it is no big deal to be misgendered when I am unable to comment.
I think the biggest barrier of being neutral, is there is no real moment when a person will be regarded as androgynous.
Humans are not conditioned to think in those terms. We categorize everything. Short tall, fat thin, colours, hair styles, clothing types. Our species will master self control with racism long before it relates to androgyny in all likelihood.
We'll never be able to change people's perceptions of us but those perceptions don't define us. Just because someone sees you in the street and says "oh that's a man." that doesn't make you a man, if you're a woman you're a woman.
QuoteTo some extent, society will definitely FORCE some things on us.
If you
let society force those things on you. Unless of course they're implementing some kind of concentration camp system that I was unaware of, you have the final say in who you are and how you live your life.
QuoteI think walking the neutral path is possibly akin to driving without insurance. Hey you might go years and never once need it. But he second push comes to shove, you might find yourself being forced into realizing something that might be hard to deny. The moment a person truly needs to prove something, it's going to matter what society says, and our own opinion might have very little weight.
I take some serious issue with this, I don't personally identify as gender neutral but do identify as androgyne (though not necessarily androgynous). Australia now allows people to mark their gender as X (see below for a link) so the idea that my gender will never be recognized by society is moot; also with increased LGBTQ awareness and inclusion in the US it's really just a matter of time til something similar passes here. And as far as I'm concerned I'm not defined by the people around me or by the letter on my ID. You have quite a misunderstanding about non-binary identities if you think that something like a medical procedure or emergency is going to force someone into misgendering themselves, or as you imply realize that in fact they are not non-binary.
QuoteI think the biggest barrier of being neutral, is there is no real moment when a person will be regarded as androgynous.
Also just not true. There are people on this very forum who do quite a good job of presenting as androgynous and who could really be either binary gender if they chose to be.
As for the original topic about the "negatives" I agree that we should all have some level headed realism and not walk around with our heads in the clouds like after transitioning life will be all gumdrops and unicorns. Yes they're will be a trade off but, and maybe I'm being rash, I think most trans* people will say that it's a good a trade. I wish my biggest problem on any given day is that my hair is a mess, that boys (or girls ;)) notice me, etc. instead of the terrible overwhelming bouts of dysphoria. Losing male privilege sure it'll be a change but I'd rather not benefit from an oppressive social mechanism.
The way I see it there are no negatives there are many and varied changes and change is big to classified as negative or positive, good or bad. Be true to yourself and live an authentic life, and yeah sure don't be careless and stay realistic; in the end though the changes that will happen in your life shouldn't deter you from being your true self.
(aforementioned link: http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/m-f-or-x-third-gender-now-official/story-fnet0gt3-1226663485211 (http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/m-f-or-x-third-gender-now-official/story-fnet0gt3-1226663485211))
Quote from: -Emily- on August 13, 2013, 07:51:15 AM
But after all - do we have a choice? I know there is always a choice, but You do not always get to outlive trying those "alternatives". I often think - can I reverse this whole thing? Making just one person suffer instead of affecting lives of more than one? Having experienced the effects of E in my system, can I return into male shell and shut everything down? I cant exist as an effeminate guy - the concept just disgusts me (no offence meant), but if I have to present myself as male, then I would rather be sort of macho (without womanising, mysogynia and bullying) - going for anything less just triggers that inherent insecurity inside of me - and I am fully aware why for my whole life I felt insecure as a male - because I never was a male, just a presentation. Yet, that would mean for me shutting all my emotional world down again and I just cant...
So, in short, NO, I am not ready for negatives, but I have no other choice. I have to finish the journey I started to see what awaits me behind that corner.
Well said. You just put into words a fuzzy set of thoughts I have had for several days. Nicely done :)
Toni
I wish people would stop shooting the messenger, I don't make this stuff up.
I don't post just to be nasty.
I don't have a problem with people regardless of how the rest of society behaves, but I am fully aware of how society DOES behave.
I'm glad Kia can inform me that in Australia a person can mark an X for gender, but that X is not going to be much comfort in some cases.
I'd rather the form had no place to mark gender at all. I mean, there are limitations on the worth of the knowledge in an emergency. If I stumble into a hospital badly injured, my gender is going to have limits on how to help me.
Society though, sometimes we can fight back, and sometimes not. It depends on what you are fighting for and it often depends on where. I have a friend that works in nations around the world, where being female is actually a disadvantage, so it plays hell on her being a transwoman who is still on the journey. It will be a problem for her after her journey reaches the goal too to a point. Depending on the specific places she ends up in. Australia is a lot nicer place to be female than Saudi Arabia that's for sure.
I think being androgynous and born in a female form, and visiting Saudi Arabia dressed as a man, well the X on a document will likely do precious little for you there, even if it works just fine in Australia.
When I say 'society' I'm talking planet earth.
Every day I walk out my door, I am reminded how damned glad I am to have been born in Canada.
I can think of soo many places where being transgender, would be nothing but a curse that would never be lifted.
As we speak, if I lived in Russia, I'd be contemplating leaving if I had to get up and walk out on foot.
There may be advantages and disadvantages to everything, but the "drawbacks" are really of benefit to me in this case. I've always been very short and fairly scrawny, so I've never had "male privilege" anyway. In fact, I get more male ridicule than privilege. I can't lose something I've never had, but I can gain so much more.
As I said, I have friends that are like me, transwoman, and they have work that involves them coming and going professionally from countries like Saudi Arabia all the time for reasons of work.
Now me, I have zero desire to travel. If someone offered me a trip to the upcoming Olympics in Russia all expenses paid, I'd laugh and say nope, go to that homophobic country? Not even though so much of the history that interests me was made there.
But that limitation is entirely based on my being who I am, and that country being entirely what they seem intent on being recently. Amazing what the difference a year can make. 2 years ago I would have not been the me I am, and that country had not embraced legally being homophobic. Otherwise there are some very famous places in Russia.
Some qualities though as mentioned by Horizon just now, are to us actually perks.
I too am a short person where average heights is concerned. But being 5'7 is a bonus when it comes to wearing high heels (if I was inclined to wear the dumb things). Because going from 5'7 to 5'10 is nothing.
QuoteWhen I say 'society' I'm talking planet earth.
There is no global society, at least not yet, humanity is to varied socially and culturally to clump it all together that way. While yes going to Saudi Arabia presents certain complications for anyone who isn't a cisgendered man all those complications are due to certain cultural aspects of Saudi Arabia and in no way representative of the entire world. While there are still many places where transitioning is not an option due to cultural conservatism, economic instability, or sub-par medical systems; we can only talk about transition consequences in those places where transition is a viable option and those places tend to be progressive western nations, the same nations where people have an easier time traveling abroad to less developed countries.
Lesley what I'm hearing from you is that despite how I identify or the lengths I go to transition people will none the less treat me and identify me as my body sex and I agree some people will. But I choose to ignore those people because I am not defined by the people around me; I decide who and what I am even if I never transition and continue to present as a man I can still be non-binary or a woman. I think this rings true for trans* people everywhere; a transwoman living in a nation where she is forced to live closeted for her security is still a woman despite her surgery status or gender expression.
I can only speak of the society that is relative to me I live in the US, in the West and I'm lucky to live in California one of the more progressive and accepting states in the US. I can say that trans* visibility and trans* acceptance is growing albeit slowly and with great difficulty but nonetheless it's happening. Not too long ago homosexuality was illegal, and now many states in the US are legalizing gay-marriage. Trans* awareness is spreading in the same way no longer are we listed as sexual deviants or mentally ill, GID is recognized as a distinct phenomena and transition is widely accepted as the best option by every national organization that matters. As trans* awareness expands I predict society's understanding of gender and sex will change and stop basing both on the body of the individual. Global change is a bit tougher, will my nation's acceptance of my gender identity change the way trans* people are viewed in the rest of the world I don't know but I hope.
Point is identity is bigger than our bodies and we are the ones who create them, even if you can only be yourself in the most secret and remote of times. People, i.e. society, only have the power over us that we as individuals give them.
I've always been a little bit aware of the oppression women face in society, even if I didn't know much about the systemic nature of said oppression, whilst simultaneously being incredibly confused by it because I held women to such a high regard.
But yeah, I'd be lying if I said I was fully prepared for the huge drop in privilege that comes from being seen as cis male to being seen as trans female. But you know what? Given that if I don't do it, I'll die, there isn't a whole lot of choice on the matter.
"Why do you want to be a woman?" The truth of the matter is that I don't want to be one at all. I want to be able to relieve myself from dysphoria, and the social aspect of transition is, honestly, not as important to me. The one family member I've told is like 'But you don't like doing women's things' or 'You're too masculine' or some ->-bleeped-<- like that. But since when does being a woman mean you have to act a certain way? Screw that.
the positives and negatives that come with identifying as my grandparents' ethnicity... if i don't tell people that i am this, they won't know, but for some reason identity is more important, and i take the right to exist which has been granted by the authorities, knowing that many neighbors would rather i disappeared and never came back. makes me think of the poor colored children who can't even choose to deny their own heritage because it's so visible.
trans people all have a choice, whether to be or not to be. living a lie, or living our own life. both have advantages and disadvantages. i intend to choose the whole package male and female, nothing and both. simply because i am all of that. i don't expect other people to understand my decision and i don't plan to explain myself either. i've been born as a unique mix of genes and environment, and i will take all the consequences of being when i choose that rather than not being just because someone else doesn't feel like the person i really am should be allowed to exist.
looks like i can really relate to the problems of a binary transition at all...
Being Canadian has a lot of benefits, but, then again, it depends on whether you refer to rural or city life Canadian.
Kia mentions the way life is in California. I have not been there, but most have heard of how it is like there in some of the more famous cities.
When I say global, I really mean global though. I have not walked the streets of Europe, and I have not trudged a path in Africa. I have not been to China. But I have communicated with people that have. I can only relate what I have heard when I need to replace is as a source if I have not personally seen.
Sadly I have lived in Toronto, and it bothers me, that in Canada, our top 10 cities, have almost nothing of Canada about them. Because they are just little slices of somewhere else. I have not been to Saudi Arabia, but have had to stomache news stories of a man committing murder and calling it an honour killing of a woman from their family and they actually thought there was nothing wrong with their actions.
Saudi Arabia is not limited to some worthless sand in the middle east. Everytime something bad happens around the world, I can watch the news on TV and see how the representative portion in Toronto has flown off the deep end about it. I am fairly sure the gay community has been busy heaping hate on the east European portions of Toronto lately. I have not seen any news stories recently, but, I stopped getting cable, so I could stop being inundated all the time with all of the negativity. It was crushing my soul.
Canada gladly opens it's borders to all and to any, but sadly that all and that any, they never leave any of the horrible stuff from home behind.
My mother lived next to a Muslim family in Ottawa. They are great people this family. They are also weird in that they are nice people. They stand out for their accepting nature that made my mother so glad to have them as neighbours. She was treated like a nice old granny by the two boys that live there. My mom regretted moving as a result. They are not the usual fare you get unfortunately.
I don't need to visit the world's various regions to visit with the negativity. Part of being Canadian means I have long ago imported it all. you really only escape it by living in rural Canada where no one really cares what you are or look like for the most part. Then again, I am often surrounded by native First Peoples persons because out in rural Canada you tend to be closer to that cultural mix.
The cell phone has essentially eliminated any notion of 'far away'. There is no far away any more. I chat regularly with a friend that globe trots for work, and Sierra Leon while a wretched country, is not so far away I can't be chatting all day on Facebook with her. She had had a slowdown in her mail just before the current trip. But as wretched as Sierra Leon is, it is not so far modern mail services couldn't get her mailed HRT medicines to her nearly the next day. Heck we were chuckling there are places in the middle of the USA where the mail is crummier.
Our planet is simply not as big as it was 100 years ago. In fact, it has shrunk dramatically all inside of my lifetime.
Of course that will make some of us feel a tad old though :)
I can recall reading of 'new sciences' that today we likely think have been around a long time.
Plate tectonics is not older than me. Continental drift is not that old a science.
It would take me all day to talk about all of the sciences I have learned that explain why so much of the world's crazy dogmas are crazy dogmas.
But modern tech has made out planet into a single community.
And it has made all of our bad behaviour immediate and real time for the whole bunch of us.
If you do something bad in Georgia the whole world will know of it today. And that is Georgia Russian or American.
I have a model making friend that lives in China.
I know people in the UK, and I have communicated with people from Poland.
When I was a kid, I was lucky to chat with people past my home town though.
We have 1 Jpanese restaurant in town. No Asian section, but we have 2 Chinese restaurants. We have a Greek restaurant. And that is about the sum of my hometown's multi cultural aspect. The town clearly has a fondness for Catholics, as the only schools in town not older than me are all nice new Catholic places. And the fact the Catholics places almost out number the non Catholic schools says something about the town.
I suppose if there is any source of bias in town I would be needing to cope with, it likely would come from there if at all.
I am fortunate though, that this is still Canada, regardless of who has come from where. Canadian law and the Canadian legal code still runs things. It is actually legal here, for a woman to take off her top and walk down the mainstream utterly naked from the waist up if she feels like it. None of the ladies ever do though :) Some things are just not worth it enough to some people on occasion :) I can enjoy the fact that I CAN be all that I want to be here, and my life is not in any danger for it. Unless my family comes from some oppressive region and they selectively ignore some portions of Canadian law in the process.
Let me tell you, if I ever catch a man hurting a woman in my presence, they are going to get a fine taste of my sledge hammer handle built cane. Not in my country. I was VERY happy to hear Fred Phelps and his hate brigade are considered terrorists in Canada and on Canadian soil.
We don't allow eeeeverything into Canada :)
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 14, 2013, 07:09:35 AM
Being Canadian has a lot of benefits, but, then again, it depends on whether you refer to rural or city life Canadian.
Kia mentions the way life is in California. I have not been there, but most have heard of how it is like there in some of the more famous cities.
When I say global, I really mean global though. I have not walked the streets of Europe, and I have not trudged a path in Africa. I have not been to China. But I have communicated with people that have. I can only relate what I have heard when I need to replace is as a source if I have not personally seen.
Sadly I have lived in Toronto, and it bothers me, that in Canada, our top 10 cities, have almost nothing of Canada about them. Because they are just little slices of somewhere else. I have not been to Saudi Arabia, but have had to stomache news stories of a man committing murder and calling it an honour killing of a woman from their family and they actually thought there was nothing wrong with their actions.
Saudi Arabia is not limited to some worthless sand in the middle east. Everytime something bad happens around the world, I can watch the news on TV and see how the representative portion in Toronto has flown off the deep end about it. I am fairly sure the gay community has been busy heaping hate on the east European portions of Toronto lately. I have not seen any news stories recently, but, I stopped getting cable, so I could stop being inundated all the time with all of the negativity. It was crushing my soul.
Canada gladly opens it's borders to all and to any, but sadly that all and that any, they never leave any of the horrible stuff from home behind.
My mother lived next to a Muslim family in Ottawa. They are great people this family. They are also weird in that they are nice people. They stand out for their accepting nature that made my mother so glad to have them as neighbours. She was treated like a nice old granny by the two boys that live there. My mom regretted moving as a result. They are not the usual fare you get unfortunately.
I don't need to visit the world's various regions to visit with the negativity. Part of being Canadian means I have long ago imported it all. you really only escape it by living in rural Canada where no one really cares what you are or look like for the most part. Then again, I am often surrounded by native First Peoples persons because out in rural Canada you tend to be closer to that cultural mix.
The cell phone has essentially eliminated any notion of 'far away'. There is no far away any more. I chat regularly with a friend that globe trots for work, and Sierra Leon while a wretched country, is not so far away I can't be chatting all day on Facebook with her. She had had a slowdown in her mail just before the current trip. But as wretched as Sierra Leon is, it is not so far modern mail services couldn't get her mailed HRT medicines to her nearly the next day. Heck we were chuckling there are places in the middle of the USA where the mail is crummier.
Our planet is simply not as big as it was 100 years ago. In fact, it has shrunk dramatically all inside of my lifetime.
Of course that will make some of us feel a tad old though :)
I can recall reading of 'new sciences' that today we likely think have been around a long time.
Plate tectonics is not older than me. Continental drift is not that old a science.
It would take me all day to talk about all of the sciences I have learned that explain why so much of the world's crazy dogmas are crazy dogmas.
But modern tech has made out planet into a single community.
And it has made all of our bad behaviour immediate and real time for the whole bunch of us.
If you do something bad in Georgia the whole world will know of it today. And that is Georgia Russian or American.
I have a model making friend that lives in China.
I know people in the UK, and I have communicated with people from Poland.
When I was a kid, I was lucky to chat with people past my home town though.
We have 1 Jpanese restaurant in town. No Asian section, but we have 2 Chinese restaurants. We have a Greek restaurant. And that is about the sum of my hometown's multi cultural aspect. The town clearly has a fondness for Catholics, as the only schools in town not older than me are all nice new Catholic places. And the fact the Catholics places almost out number the non Catholic schools says something about the town.
I suppose if there is any source of bias in town I would be needing to cope with, it likely would come from there if at all.
I am fortunate though, that this is still Canada, regardless of who has come from where. Canadian law and the Canadian legal code still runs things. It is actually legal here, for a woman to take off her top and walk down the mainstream utterly naked from the waist up if she feels like it. None of the ladies ever do though :) Some things are just not worth it enough to some people on occasion :) I can enjoy the fact that I CAN be all that I want to be here, and my life is not in any danger for it. Unless my family comes from some oppressive region and they selectively ignore some portions of Canadian law in the process.
Let me tell you, if I ever catch a man hurting a woman in my presence, they are going to get a fine taste of my sledge hammer handle built cane. Not in my country. I was VERY happy to hear Fred Phelps and his hate brigade are considered terrorists in Canada and on Canadian soil.
We don't allow eeeeverything into Canada :)
*This message brought to you by Molson Canadian. Disclaimer: The above message is highly biased towards life in Ontario and should not be considered the opinion of all Canadians. Please drink responsibly.
Not sure how to respond to that :)
Actually I am more of a hot chocolate fan. I get most of my funding from Tim Horton's :)
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 14, 2013, 08:34:46 AM
Not sure how to respond to that :)
Like zis!
There's no Canada like French Canada,
It's the best Canada in the land.
The other Canada is hardly Canada.
If you lived here for a day, you'd understand.
Ah well being from la belle province myself I can agree with that :)
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 14, 2013, 07:09:35 AM
.........
i have friends from all over the world. totally literally. i don't have any stories from friends who travelled to those countries, but people who were born and raised there. the way you portray your muslim neighbors as the weirdos of the lot doesn't fit with the reality i know. most of the muslims i know are really good people. there are a few bad ones, some bad enough to think their only purpose in life is to conquer the world to the regime of a terrifyingly strict god. but those are only a few. sadly, many are powerful enough to make a negative difference in millions of people's lives.
i'm sorry that i can't at all agree with or even want to understand your point in that post, but i've grown up and am still living on the losing end of racism. i won't stand any generalizations of any peoples based on anecdotes from white people or others who are not an actual part of the culture they visited.
or should i just say that the post hurt me just as much as it would hurt if someone told me that "oh, but you're actually one of those rare
nice gays/transsexuals".
Quote from: Alice In Genderland on August 15, 2013, 04:10:27 PM
Am I the only one who sees the irony of this sentence?
no, you aren't. i know the irony in being biased against white people and straight people and cissexual people etc. i'm even white myself, just not white enough despite even blue eyes. my saami ethnicity is too alien to other norwegians for some reason. but i have too much against privileged people making generalized statements about the less privileged. and i did mean "others who are not an actual part of the culture they visited" more than the part about white people. i have heard the oddest generalizations about europeans and americans from people in other parts of the world as well.
just to clarify
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 14, 2013, 07:09:35 AM
Canada gladly opens it's borders to all and to any, but sadly that all and that any, they never leave any of the horrible stuff from home behind.
My mother lived next to a Muslim family in Ottawa. They are great people this family. They are also weird in that they are nice people. They stand out for their accepting nature that made my mother so glad to have them as neighbours. She was treated like a nice old granny by the two boys that live there. My mom regretted moving as a result. They are not the usual fare you get unfortunately.
this is what upset me. it still upsets me.
you can have your own opinions, but relay them as your own. they're base on other people's stories, but still your own. take responsibility for them, just as i will stand for what i say as my own opinion, or my own fault for hurting someone with my words.
i am that rare nice person of my people. not a muslim, but it definitely hurts me when i hear things like that said about any group of people. it makes me sad that you'd word it that way.
your mother sure is a good woman, but that doesn't make your neighbors weird in being good people.
did you know that my people have been asked by our more norwegian neighbors to be good tourist attractions and stop complaining about not having the same human rights as them? you probably didn't, and if you live d here you might not even understand what's wrong about it. would you treat your first nations the same way? i don't know. there's no way i could know.
but the marked out sentence hurt me immensely, and your unwillingness to try and understand why hurts me just as much.
Quote from: Taka on August 15, 2013, 03:56:30 PMi'm sorry that i can't at all agree with or even want to understand your point in that post, but i've grown up and am still living on the losing end of racism. i won't stand any generalizations of any peoples based on anecdotes from white people or others who are not an actual part of the culture they visited.
Skin-wise, I'm white. Ehtnically, I'm Latin@. Let's just say that when someone finds out that I'm not a white Euro-American, it can and has gotten ugly and depressing. Almost as if it's a dirty secret that they're not afraid to blackmail me for.
Anyways, I'm right with you there. When push comes to shove, the white people who embody the white colonialist attitude always come out on top.
Always.
Interesting topic, since I was just looking at the negative effects of Transitioning.
I am sort with Horizon, I was teased allot when I was younger since I was short scrawny and had huge glasses. I never really dreamed to be a big boss, I never really cared about being super athletic. I cry to this very day when I am sad. So I can't say I had many male advantages, at least nothing I can see that woman cannot do just as well if not better.
Yet then again with each "For every action has an Equal and opposite Reaction" Sir Isaac Newton
But I think what I am trying to figure out is - would I end up on a better path then I am now that will ultimately lead me to leading a happier life, but since no one can see the future or tell what the choices you make lead you. We have to sort of take a leap of faith, no matter what path we choose.
Since we have never ventured down that path we have to hope it leads some where nice.
aaand I am rambling! :P
Quote from: Lo on August 16, 2013, 11:45:28 AM
Skin-wise, I'm white. Ehtnically, I'm Latin@. Let's just say that when someone finds out that I'm not a white Euro-American, it can and has gotten ugly and depressing. Almost as if it's a dirty secret that they're not afraid to blackmail me for.
Anyways, I'm right with you there. When push comes to shove, the white people who embody the white colonialist attitude always come out on top. Always.
finally someone who understands me...
if you haven't read it yet, you might want to try the korean webtoon "orange marmalade", it exists in english as well. that's about exactly the same kind of problem, but the author made it much easier for even white people to understand by not using ethnicities that they're already used to being prejudiced against in one way or the other. it can be a painful read though, for people who recognize all the same kinds of situations.
come out or not come out? it can be dangerous, there's so much to lose and no knowing what you could possibly gain. and choosing to go stealth probably also is problematic in ways that we don't hear much about since stealth people often stay away from the more outed ones. i wonder what it's like to never tell, how afraid they are or aren't of someone finding out. and what if you happen to learn that your boy-/girlfriend is transphobic... won't be an issue for me, i'd rather be just as queer as i am, but there are some stories i really wish we'd hear more about.
Quote from: Horizon on August 13, 2013, 10:42:10 PMI've always been very short and fairly scrawny, so I've never had "male privilege" anyway. In fact, I get more male ridicule than privilege. I can't lose something I've never had, but I can gain so much more.
Excellent point. When people generalize about "male privilege", I cringe - male privilege belongs to manly men, not the guys who are weak, skinny, feminine, short, not into sports etc. If anything, I've been routinely excluded from male privilege. I too have nothing to lose, and I'd gladly toss away any male privilege I ever had in exchange for becoming female.
Now, I understand that such a statement coming from someone who grew up male comes with its own set of qualifiers, primarily that I can't see how much privilege I've received looking from the inside of male privilege outwards (and I'm sure that women will look at me and see someone who has benefitted greatly from male privilege, no matter how blind I am to it.) But on the flip side, a female pointing to me and claiming that I've benefitted from male privilege is someone I can point to and claim benefitted from the female privilege I see all around, and to which they are equally blind.
Our perceptions of a gender other than our own are always skewed. We see the good and bad in other genders, yet can't see how good (or bad) we have it ourselves.
I see gender privilege as being most beneficial to those who exhibit the predominant physical/cultural attributes of their sex (e.g. manly men rather than wussy men receive most of the benefits of male privilege, and pretty girls rather than butch girls receive most of the benefits of female privilege). And as we're a community of TG individuals, I think that many of us are saying, "Gender privilege? What gender privilege?", because we often live in no-man's land between the two. Furthermore, I see many of us not just missing the gender privilege of their birth sex, but also that of their actual gender, because society as a whole still doesn't want to put us firmly in one category or the other.
What if you saw a 250 lb woman beating a 150 lb man? Would you come to the aid of the man in this circumstance?
Would you really beat a man with an axe handle, but not do the same with an aggressive woman?
That is sexist in the extreme.
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 14, 2013, 07:09:35 AM
Let me tell you, if I ever catch a man hurting a woman in my presence, they are going to get a fine taste of my sledge hammer handle built cane.
I mean; no matter how much you want to shatter gender roles they will pretty much will always exist. I get a lot of crap for playing video games with my other girlfriends and we get a lot of sexist crap and things like "Isn't play games not feminine" But at the end of the day; it's all part of being woman and you have to accept the good and bad. I've told my friend time and time again; I don't care about the negatives of being born with a V; but I just wish I was born with one.
Quote from: Allison on August 18, 2013, 07:27:02 PM
I mean; no matter how much you want to shatter gender roles they will pretty much will always exist. I get a lot of crap for playing video games with my other girlfriends and we get a lot of sexist crap and things like "Isn't play games not feminine" But at the end of the day; it's all part of being woman and you have to accept the good and bad. I've told my friend time and time again; I don't care about the negatives of being born with a V; but I just wish I was born with one.
I have asked a lot of cis females, some that work in game retail locations, 'if you had to design a wargame to appeal to a woman, how would you do it?'.
So far the only reply I have ever been given is 'hmm you know, that is a good question' and then they have nothing to offer.
Yes girls like video games.
But girls like video games for different reasons, even if it is the same video games the boys are playing.
I like playing pencil and paper role games. But when I play them, I play them in a way that actually illustrates my differences from the guys. I don't hunt for the biggest weapon, and I am not interested in the best armour, I am mostly interested in developing my skills useful for analytical interaction with the game. I seek to play the role, not improve the roll. I often intentionally will play flawed characters simply because their character traits are more fun to act out. Most boys though just want to kill gain XP level up, kill gain XP level up repeat repeat repeat. But that gets boring fast.
I play wargames that require problem solving, analysis and planning. I avoid games that are reflex action speed and resource gain. Most designs that are real time, tend to offer me nothing.
Quote from: Alice In Genderland on August 17, 2013, 01:28:58 PM
"even for white people." here we go again with the white-bashing. You know we're not all the same, right?
If a woman who has been raped has a deep-seated distrust of men because of it, this is acceptable. But if a culture and a people who have been raped and have a deep-seated distrust of the culture that perpetrated the crimes against them, it's not acceptable. I don't really care what the detractors say, I know how I feel, I know how I've been treated, how my family has been treated. We just want to get by.
Quote from: Joey. on August 18, 2013, 09:53:27 PM
That's such bull->-bleeped-<- and a real ->-bleeped-<-ty thing to say. That post is pure bull->-bleeped-<-. The fact you'd laugh at a man getting abused is a joke in itself and a heartless thing to say.
Man can most definitely be abused; and treated like crap. Fact of the matter is, men can be raped... and it is still messed up.
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