During my time on this forum, I've noticed that a large portion of mtf's have very negative opinions of men, especially mtf lesbians who often have social lives that consist entirely or almost entirely of women. Perhaps some ftm's feel this way as well? And perhaps they have good reason; there are so many female SO's that come on this site but I've only ever seen one male SO on here. And some of us have no doubt had few good experiences in our lives with the more "testosterone-y" gender.
But that kinda bothers me. There are so many fracking awesome guys out there, I don't like the thought of only socializing with one gender at all. (on an overall basis)
So let us all come together to appreciate the fracking awesome men in our lives! Whether they be our friend, coworker, boss, teacher,
acquaintance, uncle, brother, son, dad (I know mine is!), boyfriend, or husband! Or whatever!
We can also just appreciate how damn good-looking some of them are as well. :)
I appreciate all genders. But I will say I feel very awkward around straight men, but I think that is because being male myself I feel they are expecting me to be more masculine. Or expect me to act a certain way react a certain way or present myself a certain way?? Idk, but I do know I always ask for female doctors and when I have an interview or such when I find out it's a woman I have a huge relief.
Anyway I guess I'm saying I'm cool with all genders, but inside somewhere I get self concsious in front of straight men.
That being said I love my husband who is actually very straight acting, my girlfriends honestly have told me they'd never would have known he was anything but straight! Lol :laugh:
I may give men a bad time, but I have no real problem with them. In fact there is one man I dearly love. He is kind, generous, loving to his family. And best of all he is my son.
Yes, appreciate me! I deserve to be appreciated!
Lol jk
I don't get why anyone could dislike an entire gender. That seems odd to me. Plus, I'm straight so it would be hard for me to hate guys in general,lol.
Quote from: Ms. OBrien CVT on August 18, 2013, 03:50:15 PM
I may give men a bad time, but I have no real problem with them. In fact there is one man I dearly love. He is kind, generous, loving to his family. And best of all he is my son.
Aww, that was so cute!
Quote from: Malachite on August 18, 2013, 03:55:15 PM
Yes, appreciate me! I deserve to be appreciated!
Lol jk
Of course we appreciate you. :)
Even though I hate using the term I'm a straight girl and I love men. Now I'll admit there are days like today were I get easily annoyed by them. But that's not everyday and I love totally and completely on most days.
I don't think it's ever right to judge a person based on their gender. Honestly I really don't get this kind of behavior. This is just as bad as not liking someone for their race. I started transitioning because I am a woman not because I hate men.
Now do I have to be cautious around men I don't know now but that is just being smart and has nothing to do with who they are. But I think the people that like to put men down have issues they need to deal with themselves instead of channeling their hate towards an entire gender. ;)
Quote from: Malachite on August 18, 2013, 03:55:15 PM
Yes, appreciate me! I deserve to be appreciated!
Lol jk
I appreciate you Malachite! :)
Just for Malachite.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.starskins.co.uk%2Facatalog%2Fkis1157_s.jpg&hash=e5789e2538bf019bdc3cc27e0719f88851098e66)
::) I feel so loved. Thanks ladies. :)
I'm queer. I admire and appreciate men all day long. :D
Well, I used to have mostly male friends as a kid. But when I got to Jr. High, they became real jerks as they started going through puberty, so I had mostly female friends and a few male ones. That trend continued through high school. In uni, I was friends with exclusively women. not entirely by choice, it was that my field is female-dominated. Funnily enough, as I look young again, that vulnerability seems to have come back - that fear that the guys will turn on me and start picking on me again. Like at the bus stop or whatever.
But despite those experiences, I hear a lot of stuff about men that really bothers me. People thinking men don't have feelings, or that men are only after one thing, that all men are aggressive. it just isn't true. I know lots of men who really hate those stereotypes...some play up to them to keep people from mocking them, others try to find their ways to be themselves.
There are men I like and am genuinly very impressed with, then there are also others that I don't particularly care for
I also think that part of it is that after having been forced and forced in the male mold for so long, and not feeling like it's you, then at some point you begin to think it's not just not you, but that it's evil, bad all short. It's easy to go from "it's not for me" to "it's bad". Just like food. It's easy to say it's bad instead of "I don't like it".
That, and there might be resentment against guys who, in the past, made fun of you for not being a "real" guy, or for forcing you to become more like one.
Me, uhm... I feel more understood by women, and I feel like I belong more with them. It's not like I dislike guys... more that until now they've secretly disliked me for not being a real guy, so I didn't really get much of a chance to socialize with them at all. Not to say that I socialize with women much more, since I'm quite alone in every way, but anyway, girls really do tend to have less automatic disdain for "fake" guys.
Even though I did have a period when I thought all about masculinity was evil, because of how much I've always hated everything masculine about me and found it weird in others, I'm getting out of it. I still understand very little if anything about all that is masculine, but I try to understand that I can dislike it without it being a bad thing.
I appreciate me. I also appreciate my son although he's young and learning. He has as strong a will as me which I am really proud of and hope to encourage although it causes problems when we lock horns on something. I am also grateful to one of my friends who has so far been willing to accept me (even the not-so good parts of me) without judging (that I know of) and has so far been very supportive. Another of my friends is... a little odd, but I appreciate him too.
Men can be truly fantastic. I am always annoyed when radical feminists go all anti-male. Men are subject to so much pressure in our society...they are constantly objectified sometimes to a greater degree than women...and there's always a societal pressure to make boys and men more masculine. For a "soft" man to actually live as a sensitive, polite, respectful male takes a lot of courage. There is so much pressure to maintain a dominant presence, to be "tough" and unfeeling....and anger and happiness are the only acceptable emotions to express. But even the men who are crude and tough around each other often still maintain an endearing chivalry that I just love.
So many men are great. Just the other day I saw two different men stop and go to work on a woman's van that broke down at a rest-stop while she tried to handle her four kids. And these guys obviously didn't know here and didn't have anything to gain by helping her...and I've seen this sort of thing thousands of times and been on the receiving end of this sort of help so many times. It's really refreshing. And to have the door held for me in public by a stranger or have someone help me carry heavy things....I always appreciate that. I hear feminists complain a lot about these things such as "I don't need a man to open a door for me....I can do it myself...." but I think that's missing the point. It's not something they do dutifully but out of respect and kindness...and the only thing they are seeking in return is acceptance and approval from a woman....it's so often overlooked, but a lot of men aren't looking for sex or personal gain, they just want a moment's consideration...to be recognized and shown just a speck of courtesy and a warm smile to brighten their day and boost their confidence.....so much of male bravado is just a cover for basic human insecurity. The approval of a woman can mean so much....
So many men are vilified by women and never given even a speck of recognition...I constantly see men ignored by women when all they want is a few kind words or a smile. And it really crushes them so much of the time. They'll never show it, but it does.
This thread is a wonderful idea. I would like to thank all the men who have ever held a door for me, or helped me push a car that's out of fuel, or given me and my friend a ride when Iwe're stranded....all the men that helped me and didn't want physical or monetary compensation....they did it solely to be helpful to a woman, and to be recognized for it because it makes them feel good about themselves.
Now, I realize I am making some generalizations, and not all men are like that....but a good deal are. And I do appreciate men a lot, and it does sadden me when all men are slighted because of the actions of only some
^Very well written Oriah! Definitely describes all the good men in my life :D
Quote from: Joules on August 18, 2013, 05:43:32 PM
I think it's a lot like Harlow said above, I've spent so long trying to fit in and belong as a male that I'm just thoroughly sick of anything male any more.
I hear what you'e saying Joules, but just so others know I'm not sick/hateful of anything male. Just the fact I feel self conscious around straight men. It's not that they do or say anything in particular just on my part, in my head I feel self conscious of my femininity.
I tend to mostly agree with Joules - I too think they suck in most part. Yes, I do believe there are some good men, and men have achieved some great things, but looking back at my workplace I feel they are few and far between.
Yes, they do all those things described by Oriah; I observed them during my 26 years in the Engineering Deparment I used to work for. But these same men talked about women in a most derogatory manner - I used to sit with the men mostly listening, somewhat disgusted, in their demeaning of women - and this included both single and married men.
Unfortunately to try and keep my "male persona" I very rarely countered their views which, in hindsight, I regret terribly. I watched women being verbally abused in the workplace, but again being too shy and did not want to rock the boat. In this regard I still suffer pangs of guilt for letting these men "get away wit it".
To the faces of the women the men appeared fine, but behind their back disgusting.
Others may have had different experiences - but most men in MY view are crude.
I've been on hormones for a year now and have not changed my view.
Quote from: nepla on August 18, 2013, 10:43:46 PM
I tend to mostly agree with Joules - I too think they suck in most part. Yes, I do believe there are some good men, and men have achieved some great things, but looking back at my workplace I feel they are few and far between.
Yes, they do all those things described by Oriah; I observed them during my 26 years in the Engineering Deparment I used to work for. But these same men talked about women in a most derogatory manner - I used to sit with the men mostly listening, somewhat disgusted, in their demeaning of women - and this included both single and married men.
Unfortunately to try and keep my "male persona" I very rarely countered their views which, in hindsight, I regret terribly. I watched women being verbally abused in the workplace, but again being too shy and did not want to rock the boat. In this regard I still suffer pangs of guilt for letting these men "get away wit it".
To the faces of the women the men appeared fine, but behind their back disgusting.
Others may have had different experiences - but most men in MY view are crude.
I've been on hormones for a year now and have not changed my view.
Men talk far different with men than they do women. Most of that talk is just for show to prove to other men how masculine they are. Trust me all that big talk goes away once they are alone with a woman. Did you ever really become close friends with any of these men? Trust me once you've been friends long enough they tell you what they really think and it's not as crude as you think.
Men are just as acceptable to hurt as women in fact men fall in love faster and it takes them longer to get over a failed relationship. I seen women hurt men just as bad as any man has done a woman.
Neither sex is perfect and men and women at their core are far more similar than they like to admit. And if women were in a position of power the world would be no different. I really am dumbfounded by this whole notion of one gender being better than the other based off nothing more than ones on point of view. This world needs men just as much as it needs women the world cannot survive without the other. :)
Quote from: nepla on August 18, 2013, 10:43:46 PM
I tend to mostly agree with Joules - I too think they suck in most part. Yes, I do believe there are some good men, and men have achieved some great things, but looking back at my workplace I feel they are few and far between.
Yes, they do all those things described by Oriah; I observed them during my 26 years in the Engineering Deparment I used to work for. But these same men talked about women in a most derogatory manner - I used to sit with the men mostly listening, somewhat disgusted, in their demeaning of women - and this included both single and married men.
Unfortunately to try and keep my "male persona" I very rarely countered their views which, in hindsight, I regret terribly. I watched women being verbally abused in the workplace, but again being too shy and did not want to rock the boat. In this regard I still suffer pangs of guilt for letting these men "get away wit it".
To the faces of the women the men appeared fine, but behind their back disgusting.
Others may have had different experiences - but most men in MY view are crude.
I've been on hormones for a year now and have not changed my view.
While it is true that men can say crude and derogatory things about women behind their backs, a lot of times it's part of the male bravado....there's so much pressure on them to be a man's man when around other males, that many, and I mean quite a few here, end up saying things....lewd and crass things....that they don't mean. Often times, it's a bonding thing....a peer pressure thing....men who are gentle monogamous lovers will talk to their friends like they are kinky womanizers that like it rough and hard.....and they do it to fit in with other men....to appear more masculine...to be accepted by other males. Again, it's a cover for insecurity.....
a lot of men will say something like "God I wanna F*** the S*** out of her" to score "man points" when in their mind they're thinking something much more tame, such as...."wow she's beautiful....I'd love to take a girl like her out, if only they'd give me a chance."
I'm not saying it's a positive thing, or something that should be condoned.....but it's something that should be understood....because, trust me, it DOES happen....a lot.
I (or rather, my former male self) used to hate men, for a multitude of reasons.
Sex abuse, emotional abuse, wife/child beatings, lack of spine in far too many of them, selfish, arrogant.
And as hard as I tried to "be" one of them by mimicking their good aspects (strength without hurting, kindness, courage)...they just never accepted "me."
Then one day I saw my sons outgrowing me...they were becoming men, as I never was. How could I hate all men, with my sons being so wonderful? Shortly after that, I started HRT with the avowed purpose of being "mostly" lesbian, but if the right guy came along...
But now, 18 months in, and I'm wondering what the big deal is with me being attracted to women? What I want in a relationship really is either a masculine woman (think "borderline butch lesbian"), or a man.
As I develop, physically and emotionally and in maturity...I understand that most men aren't a$$h0les, they're just men. And I'm cool with that.
Plus, if they have a well-developed upper body....*sigh* :P
I have no real disagreement with the core of both Heather's and Oriah's reply.
I also don't prescribe to the notion that one gender is better than the other.
I just could never envisage myself talking about my wife or other women in the way they did and still believe it is crude - but then realistically I guess I was "never a man " anyway, only a pretend (a spy amongst them?).
Quote from: nepla on August 19, 2013, 01:31:43 AM
I just could never envisage myself talking about my wife or other women in the way they did and still believe it is crude - but then realistically I guess I was "never a man " anyway, only a pretend (a spy amongst them?).
Yeah I agree all that guy talk can be crude. Over the years I've learned to look past it because I know where it comes from. But I know what you mean by being a spy. Even though I'm not a very good one because for the most part men are a mystery to me even after all the time I spent amongst them. I guess it's that mystery that draws me to them so much or maybe it's muscles? :laugh:
QuoteEven though I'm not a very good one because for the most part men are a mystery to me even after all the time I spent amongst them.
Guess what? All you ladies are a big mystery to me, too. You both attract and confuse me.
Just to take the topic straight to the gutter; I deeply appreciate men, the deeper they are in me the more I appreciate them :embarrassed:
As for Kats, well, they are totally adorable, especially the Lordly kind :angel:
Devlyn (Heee Heeee she'll never know it was me)
Quote from: LordKAT on August 19, 2013, 01:51:45 AM
Guess what? All you ladies are a big mystery to me, too. You both attract and confuse me.
I think that's the way the universe wants it. But look on the bright side who doesn't love a good mystery? :)
Well, it is one mystery I'll keep purring away at.
Quote from: LordKAT on August 19, 2013, 02:20:07 AM
Well, it is one mystery I'll keep purring away at.
I think it's the mystery that makes life worth living. Keeps things interesting. ;)
Quote from Emily,
On a side note, yesterday I was in a grocery store and there were a couple of guys in the line behind me – they were buying cheap beer and cigs... Though what they truly needed was soap, shampoo and perspirant. Oh my...
Unquote
And they probably wonder why they can't pick up any girls :laugh:
Quote from: Cindy on August 19, 2013, 02:57:11 AM
Quote from Emily,
On a side note, yesterday I was in a grocery store and there were a couple of guys in the line behind me – they were buying cheap beer and cigs... Though what they truly needed was soap, shampoo and perspirant. Oh my...
Unquote
And they probably wonder why they can't pick up any girls :laugh:
No they probably don't wonder. They are probably sure its because they're all lesbians ::)
Quote from: Alice In Genderland on August 19, 2013, 03:12:38 AM
No they probably don't wonder. They are probably sure its because they're all lesbians ::)
oops, forgot this was supposed to be man appreciation....
men are great...well not all but neither are all women.
Quote from: Cindy on August 19, 2013, 01:55:39 AM
Just to take the topic straight to the gutter; I deeply appreciate men, the deeper they are in me the more I appreciate them :embarrassed:
Lol that made my morning
Quote from: Cindy on August 19, 2013, 01:55:39 AM
I deeply appreciate men, the deeper they are in me the more I appreciate them :embarrassed:
"Badum-tish"
I'm pretty neutral about them. I tend to treat all genders the same, it helps that I lean heavily towards asexual, no feelings of attraction toward anyone, so their gender simply doesn't matter to me.
Quote from: Joules on August 19, 2013, 03:14:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVEIotzy3_A
ZING! Okay, that's going in the Bad Jokes thread.
Quote from: nepla on August 18, 2013, 10:43:46 PM
I used to sit with the men mostly listening, somewhat disgusted, in their demeaning of women - and this included both single and married men.
Honestly, have you ever heard the way some women - and I mean straight, non-hating, regular cis-women - talk about men??? When it comes to objectifying, stereotyping and disrespecting the other sex, the girls -as in so many other areas - got the guys beat all ends up! :)
Keep in mind, that bullies come in all shapes, sizes and even genders. I don't blame all men for those who have verbal abused me or physically beaten me. That is a reflection of who they are, not who all men are. The same can be said about female bullies. We shouldn't be responsible for some girl being nasty. And I don't mind men who are masculine or many men. Just because I'm different doesn't mean their behavior is automatically boorish or wrong. We all have different personas regardless of the gender.
Quote from: learningtolive on August 19, 2013, 12:36:19 PM
Keep in mind, that bullies come in all shapes, sizes and even genders.
YES! I have known some really mean hateful miserable females who want nothing more than to see others suffer and who want to intimidate and overpower others. Bullying or intimidating others is not just a trait that comes with men ;)
Truly, gender has nothing to do with whither a person has a bully mentality or not, a bully is going to be a bully regardless of what gender they happen to be
Wow, why so much negativity in the man APPRECIATION thread??
At any rate, I hated women as a teenager because girls had given me the most grief growing up, made me jump through impossible hoops to earn "feminine cred", and were just mean, catty, competitive, and backstabbing. In elementary school, there was not one woman or girl I felt I could trust. In jr high, I was turned off by all the boys hitting puberty, AND the girls getting even meaner, so what I had to so was find a group of misanthropes like myself, which I did. We were a mixed group, but I still had a special place in my heart for hating women and femininity. In high school, my woman-hating reached its peak. I was almost sure that I was a gay FtM because men were hot, women were butt-ugly, and of course I didn't want to be butt-ugly so that meant having a man's body.
I got over myself of course, and learned a thing or two, do now all genders are equally wonderful and irritating to me. Irritating especially when its a single-gender binary group, men AND women can be pretty intolerable when they think the "other" sex isn't around.
I don't value masculinity over femininity anymore, but I don't do the other way around either. Personally, I value a mix of both the most... but men are still much hotter. ;)
Quote from: V M on August 19, 2013, 08:23:51 PM
Truly, gender has nothing to do with whither a person has a bully mentality or not, a bully is going to be a bully regardless of what gender they happen to be
"I've noticed that a large portion of mtf's have very negative opinions of men"
I will admit to a negative opinion of "Some" men, but certainly not all men. Yes, I've been hurt a few times by men, but what would we do without them.
There is a place for both men and women in this world, we need both of them.
I certainly would like a man's arms wrapped around me, holding me close.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on August 27, 2013, 04:19:31 PM
"I've noticed that a large portion of mtf's have very negative opinions of men"
I will admit to a negative opinion of "Some" men, but certainly not all men. Yes, I've been hurt a few times by men, but what would we do without them.
I have noticed a very strong dislike of men among some MTFs in this forum. I also noticed that a lot ofpeople have very negative things to say about gay men. I find it really off-putting. And quite frankly, wrong. I know there is this myth thatgay men don't like trans women but I live in a city that has a lot of gay men and they do not hate trans women--at all. yeah if you online and base your opinions of random posters, of course you wil think this because hateful people are vocal online. it does not mean they represent anything close to a majority. I just don't understand they hatred of men...unless you were raped. An trust me I have a lot of reasons to dislike men and have been hospitalized over five times because of assualts. I am not talking bullying or insults, I am talking sull on beating, broken ribs, broken orbit bones, broken noses. yet, I have no hatred towards men. In fact, I lovelovelove them. I mean look at my nose. I can show a pic of my nose before these assaults and it is was upturned, straight and cute. now it is horrid.
Somehow I think you have gotten a wrong opinion of what I said.
I was raped as a young teen, but I don't hate men, I said I have a negative opinion of Some Men.
Note the key words, Negative and Some.
I appreciate humanity in general. Gender is such an irrelevant trait when compared to being a human being.
That being said, "pretty boys" are farking gorgeous. Show me a tall-ish guy with thick, dark, shaggy hair and a friendly face - I'll squeal and possibly pass out.
I have a thing for emo boys.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on August 27, 2013, 04:36:00 PM
Somehow I think you have gotten a wrong opinion of what I said.
I was raped as a young teen, but I don't hate men, I said I have a negative opinion of Some Men.
Note the key words, Negative and Some.
Oh, I'm sorry I wasn't really speaking to you directly but just quoted your post as it was a platform for what I wanted to say. It was in no way a rebuke of your post at all. I should be more careful quoting people. I am sorry. I totally understand your position. More then you know.
Ok, no problem.
I try my best to be the opposite of every bad experience a woman has had with a man. He was rough? I'll be gentle. He was angry? I'll be calm. He was abusive? I'll be every kind of loving that I can be. I have a natural urge to protect women. Comes with some things I saw as a child as well. I just hope that those that were abused understand that not all of us are bad. Crude...well maybe sometimes :P but definitely respectful and considerate. I definitely have flaws, but so does every other human being. And we do say certain things around other dudes to eh...show off. Heh. But were not bad cause of that. Actually I was on the bus, before I got my car, and this young woman asked if she could use my phone. I let her, of course. I couldn't help but overhear her conversation. She was talking to someone about meeting them at the bus stop and some chick had been saying how she was a bad mom and a bad person. And what killed me is she started to say that it was true, that she was s***. After she gave me back my phone I just kept thinking, what kind of person got her this low? As I went to get off the bus, I realized she was crying. I stopped and kneeled, putting my hand on her shoulder, and I said 'look, I know I don't know you, but you are not worthless, and you are definitely not s***. Ok?'. She nodded and I got off the bus. I swear I'm not bragging, I'm telling yall a personal experience so next time you see some guy that is every bad thing a man could be, keep in mind there are some good ones too.
I have a groups of men I like, all of them are friends or family. One, is Caleb. As much as he has hurt me lately, I still love him.... im just glad that he is a lot cuter than his avatar. Malachite is a great guy too, not so fat Admin too. But I do have an issue with males when they are A-holes. I was beaten up and teased by boys as I grew up, so I have my own issues I work on. I judge guys and gals on an individual basis.
Quote from: TheLance on August 27, 2013, 08:07:26 PMActually I was on the bus, before I got my car, and this young woman asked if she could use my phone. I let her, of course. I couldn't help but overhear her conversation. She was talking to someone about meeting them at the bus stop and some chick had been saying how she was a bad mom and a bad person. And what killed me is she started to say that it was true, that she was s***. After she gave me back my phone I just kept thinking, what kind of person got her this low? As I went to get off the bus, I realized she was crying. I stopped and kneeled, putting my hand on her shoulder, and I said 'look, I know I don't know you, but you are not worthless, and you are definitely not s***. Ok?'. She nodded and I got off the bus. I swear I'm not bragging, I'm telling yall a personal experience so next time you see some guy that is every bad thing a man could be, keep in mind there are some good ones too.
That's just so awesome. I could definitely marry that kind of person. I hope I get to meet someone like you one day, really. And if you have no luck on your side, guarantee that it's not your fault. Well, probably. (Sounds like your common guarantee, haha. Whatever happens, it's covered... well, probably. I feel like Future Shop.)
Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 27, 2013, 04:26:06 PM
I have noticed a very strong dislike of men among some MTFs in this forum. I also noticed that a lot ofpeople have very negative things to say about gay men.
This isn't just limited to this forum: we can also experience strong dislike from some MtFs in real life. Even those of us who have been on similar journeys.
For example: I'm a patient at the UK's friendliest GIC, where patients are made to feel like members of the same family. But you should see the filthy looks we FtM patients get from many of the MtF patients at that clinic. Several of them make it abundantly clear that they
really don't want to see us there. If our clinic is a family, we're the unwanted step-brothers.
So my thanks go to Susan, her Mods and posters for keeping this place friendly. Because whilst we have seen a bit of misandry here, it is in fact quite rare and the nastier posts have been acted on immediately. I for one appreciate this.
And Joanna, I'm sorry to hear of your experiences. *Hugs*
Its just a thought (and my own opinion, which doesn't always mean a lot), but maybe some of the negativity comes from the fact that we were forced by parents and society to live as that gender and we hated it and saw only the bad side of being male.
And we are just showing "negativity" about our own past experiences.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on August 28, 2013, 08:41:47 AM
Its just a thought (and my own opinion, which doesn't always mean a lot), but maybe some of the negativity comes from the fact that we were forced by parents and society to live as that gender and we hated it and saw only the bad side of being male.
And we are just showing "negativity" about our own past experiences.
Actually this makes sense. I have fascination with and a dislike with women. I had come to this conclusion when it comes to my own feelings. After accepting that, the total dislike has changed in just feeling that women are often just incomprehensible.
Quote from: LordKAT on August 28, 2013, 08:47:19 AM
Actually this makes sense. I have fascination with and a dislike with women. I had come to this conclusion when it comes to my own feelings. After accepting that, the total dislike has changed in just feeling that women are often just incomprehensible.
All men think we are incomprehensible. ^_^
Correction, we know you are. But also a challenge and so very beautiful.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on August 28, 2013, 08:41:47 AM
Its just a thought (and my own opinion, which doesn't always mean a lot), but maybe some of the negativity comes from the fact that we were forced by parents and society to live as that gender and we hated it and saw only the bad side of being male.
And we are just showing "negativity" about our own past experiences.
I agree, and we who were forced to live as females against our will can and often do have negative impressions about being female for the same reason. But what Susan's gets right is that in most instances, we all tend to play nicely in spite of all this.
Quote from: LordKAT on August 28, 2013, 09:09:15 AM
Correction, we know you are. But also a challenge and so very beautiful.
We're not incomprehensible! We're just comprehension-challenged!
I understand myself perfectly well at least 25% of the time. :D
LOL
If you don't understand you, no wonder we don't.
i don't have any specific disliking for males or females. i just hate the fact that i was born female, but that doesn't mean that i hate whole female race. i don't have a specific hatred for males, but there are times when i get dead jealous of some, and i hate the ones who try to act more masculine and try to dominate me, and the ones who try flirting around me. i also don't like women who treat me in a girly girly manner and expect me to behave in the same way. i also don't like men and women who try to cuddle me saying i'm their litte girl or princess and all that. apart from that i'm ok with people, anyways nice to see u all trying to appreciate us!
Quote from: ZoeM on August 28, 2013, 09:17:52 AM
We're not incomprehensible! We're just comprehension-challenged!
I understand myself perfectly well at least 25% of the time. :D
Haha, that's funny.
Though honestly, from my point of view, when there's something gender-related that I don't understand, it's usually about men.
Quote from: LordKAT on August 28, 2013, 09:09:15 AM
Correction, we know you are. But also a challenge and so very beautiful.
Oh, I'm a challenge alright! :P
I truly enjoy being a challenge ;).
Quote from: FTMDiaries on August 28, 2013, 09:12:25 AM
I agree, and we who were forced to live as females against our will can and often do have negative impressions about being female for the same reason. But what Susan's gets right is that in most instances, we all tend to play nicely in spite of all this.
Oh and vice versa I get that. Also think that 95% of the time its not happening. I get surprised when it does though. Like when I've seen this kind of thing in the FTM section, I think *really* you're posting this here!?
I really wish we could just all do the "parts exchange". LOL. Would make our lives easier.
--Jay
I have some really amazing guy friends who have been there for me, through transition even, in ways most people haven't. A good man is a great thing and the world needs more of them.
Also women are not incomprehensible lol. Men are the ones that never tell you what they are feeling. Well not never, but almost. How is that supposed to be comprehensible?
Quote from: Jen on August 29, 2013, 12:31:00 PM
I have some really amazing guy friends who have been there for me, through transition even, in ways most people haven't. A good man is a great thing and the world needs more of them.
Also women are not incomprehensible lol. Men are the ones that never tell you what they are feeling. Well not never, but almost. How is that supposed to be comprehensible?
I think it's because men are only ever feeling two things: "Uhh, nothing" and "How beautiful you are."
(No offense, men! We love ya anyway!)
Quote from: ZoeM on August 29, 2013, 12:43:32 PM
I think it's because men are only ever feeling two things: "Uhh, nothing" and "How beautiful you are."
(No offense, men! We love ya anyway!)
That's what they say... I am skeptical it's true :)
Quote from: Jen on August 29, 2013, 01:42:50 PM
That's what they say... I am skeptical it's true :)
Actually, that is about right. Nothing or beautiful ladies.
Quote from: -Emily- on August 29, 2013, 03:44:56 PM
But despite of not telling what they feel is usually all over the face.
You forgot the third feeling - feeling hungry.
Ooh yea!! Guys are fairly easy to read. They only have expressions for happy, sad, annoyed and angry. Its like a PC chip. Women feel at 64 bit range and need a 6 core cpu to handle all the variations in feelings and expressions whereas the guys feel at 32 bit with a dual core cpu. I can read Caleb like an open book. I know when hes upset and he tells me otherwise.
Quote from: Oriah on August 18, 2013, 11:42:42 PM
While it is true that men can say crude and derogatory things about women behind their backs, a lot of times it's part of the male bravado....there's so much pressure on them to be a man's man when around other males, that many, and I mean quite a few here, end up saying things....lewd and crass things....that they don't mean. Often times, it's a bonding thing....a peer pressure thing....men who are gentle monogamous lovers will talk to their friends like they are kinky womanizers that like it rough and hard.....and they do it to fit in with other men....to appear more masculine...to be accepted by other males. Again, it's a cover for insecurity.....
a lot of men will say something like "God I wanna F*** the S*** out of her" to score "man points" when in their mind they're thinking something much more tame, such as...."wow she's beautiful....I'd love to take a girl like her out, if only they'd give me a chance."
I'm not saying it's a positive thing, or something that should be condoned.....but it's something that should be understood....because, trust me, it DOES happen....a lot.
That's a great post, couldn't put it better myself, yes I understand perfectly.
I see it in my husband all the time, all macho and manly with his football friends, but is a perfect gentleman when alone with me, he'd never give me flowers in the company of his pals, its a ''man thing'' but does spoil me the way a girl should be spoiled, he is very understanding of my history, fully and completely excepts me as a woman.
Boys will be boys, women just have to except that.
Quote from: Keaira on August 29, 2013, 04:22:17 PM
Ooh yea!! Guys are fairly easy to read. They only have expressions for happy, sad, annoyed and angry. Its like a PC chip. Women feel at 64 bit range and need a 6 core cpu to handle all the variations in feelings and expressions whereas the guys feel at 32 bit with a dual core cpu. I can read Caleb like an open book. I know when hes upset and he tells me otherwise.
That is exactly the problem! You can tell
what they are feeling but they won't say
why. Usually if you press they will just say nothing is wrong, when obviously something is. And I don't mean that like it makes men bad or anything like that, just that it makes them hard to understand sometimes!
I've had women say something was bothering me and whats wrong when I was just thinking through my day. Sometimes it really is nothing.
That's all the difficulty of it. When is he showing a worse face than expected for something normal, and when is he showing a better face for something bad? Hard to tell sometimes, hmm.
I think men are awesome! Little boys and girls need good, paternal, male role models to emulate.
Men just naturally have that strength, endurance, courage, and bravado to perform their tasks in life. And I suppose that I am attracted to their hormones, lol. They're deliciously attractive, lol! :P
And when it comes to relationships, there really isn't anything to replace when a man acts around their beloved women. There is nothing that melts me more than in the embrace of a man, with his arms around my waist! n___n;
I am very appreciative of my brothers, who are my mother's mainstay, and my father for his kindness, and tolerance. I think things wouldn't be the same without all the good men in the world. :)
Awwe, Thanks.
Quote from: TheLance on August 27, 2013, 08:07:26 PM
I try my best to be the opposite of every bad experience a woman has had with a man. He was rough? I'll be gentle. He was angry? I'll be calm. He was abusive? I'll be every kind of loving that I can be. I have a natural urge to protect women. Comes with some things I saw as a child as well. I just hope that those that were abused understand that not all of us are bad. Crude...well maybe sometimes :P but definitely respectful and considerate. I definitely have flaws, but so does every other human being. And we do say certain things around other dudes to eh...show off. Heh. But were not bad cause of that. Actually I was on the bus, before I got my car, and this young woman asked if she could use my phone. I let her, of course. I couldn't help but overhear her conversation. She was talking to someone about meeting them at the bus stop and some chick had been saying how she was a bad mom and a bad person. And what killed me is she started to say that it was true, that she was s***. After she gave me back my phone I just kept thinking, what kind of person got her this low? As I went to get off the bus, I realized she was crying. I stopped and kneeled, putting my hand on her shoulder, and I said 'look, I know I don't know you, but you are not worthless, and you are definitely not s***. Ok?'. She nodded and I got off the bus. I swear I'm not bragging, I'm telling yall a personal experience so next time you see some guy that is every bad thing a man could be, keep in mind there are some good ones too.
Lance is awesome :-)
I don't dislike men as a whole. I have several that I greatly trust and am close friends with.
However ... my personal experiences with them, especially behind closed doors has always made me uncomfortable around most of them until I get to know one better. I heavily dislike the machoistic sexist culture that is common among men, especially when they think women aren't around, and sometimes even when we are.
Maybe this is simply because I'm a trans woman. I've always felt and thought like a woman. So maybe it's only natural that I would feel uncomfortable in an environment that is supposed to be predominantly men oriented, and thus find such behavior distasteful, and that the experience has clouded my judgment when it comes to first impressions of men. It takes me quite a while to warm up to men at all, and the more of that side of them that I see, the longer it takes me to do so, if at all.
I haven't written them all off. But I am more cautious around them, especially if I don't know them. I think that at least some of them really do buy into the macho bull and revel in it. And the way such men talk about women just ... it makes me keep my distance even when presenting as male myself.
I should also add that, and I admit this is maybe a bit of a double standard, I don't have the same emotional response (and that's what it is, by the way, an emotional, involuntary uncomfortable feeling around men I don't know and trust) with trans men. Please don't misunderstand. I regard them as men. REAL men. But, I admit I would feel safer around one than a cis man I don't know. I haven't witnessed one doing the whole "I'm super macho, and women are good for one thing only" thing. I know this is probably naïve on my part, as I'm sure some probably do this.
I suspect this feeling may even increase once I finally go full time.
So now that I've said all that ... any advice for how to not feel this way about men and give them their fair chance? This is something that's always bothered me.
I've been wanting to make a contribution here for quite some time but never quite got around to it...
I have spent all of my adult life in France starting with 5 years in an elite paratroop regiment in the French army, even seeing some combat in the depths of Africa way back in 1978....It was at a period in my life when I just couldn't cope with who I was and was very much running away from myself.
I hated the military ethos and the horribly macho group behaviours that go along with it. Because of this I was always an outsider but, based on what has been one of the guiding principles of my life, "always try to make the best of whatever situation you find yourself in, no matter how bad it is, as by doing this you will always get something positive out of it" , I did exactly that. So, in spite of the fact that I refused to take on any significant rank for example, I got to do lots of pretty interesting stuff (rock climbing, survival in artic, desert and jungle conditions, special forces type training...) and also made one lifelong friend, my last company commander.
Interestingly, since I came out to him last year, he has been among my strongest supporters, to such an extent that I'm beginning to suspect he likes me better as a woman than as a man... :) In many ways he is a real macho guy and at times I have some difficulty with this but, in many ways he is also remarkably sensitive as are all of my close male friends, six people in total. All six of them recently provided me with testimonial letters supporting my Civil Identity Change filing and three of these letters were so beautifully written that they actually brought tears to my eyes.
They are all also people with whom I have had many empassioned debates, lots of fun on evenings and holidays spent togehter and to whom I have definitely gotten closer since coming out. Just thinking about it as I write, I guess that I was far more anti male before accepting who I was and that this was no doubt down to my own inner conflict, having to act as a male in spite of all I felt inside.
Since accepting myself and starting my transition, while I am still not at all attracted phsically to guys, I have been able to develop levels of intimacy which make me feel far more comfortable with males in general. This is even true with my male colleagues at work.
End of the day, I will always spontaneously prefer the company of women but I have really no problems with males in general and have nothing but the deepest affection and respect for friends who have stood by me through thick and thin during my often troubled existance in this country.
Here's to guys and maybe just good people no matter what their gender !
Donna
Whether thay are male or female, you'll always find a-holes who give you a rough time. As a guy, I really really did not fit in. I tried. But I was always seen as odd, gay or both. I was never told I was good-looking and if I liked a girl I kept it to myself because I always felt that they were out of my league or that it was wrong because I knew I should be a woman too and I would just be rejected anyway.
then when I transitioned, I seemed to just let go and live my life regardless of the consequences. I was free! And now, online anyway, I get complemented and hit on by guys. And it just feels so surreal to me. Its like starring in an episode of Quantum Leap. At least with the guys here I can go through their old posts and get the measure of that man. To see what kind of man he is and where he came from to be the kind of guy he is today.
Out in the world, theres a lot of nice guys. And some who act like Billy Badass, but the beauty of being a woman is that we talk. We gossip. We can get the inside scoop on what a guy is really like before we even talk to him.
And if you treat women badly, they can destroy you through networking and social media. :p
Quotebut the beauty of being a woman is that we talk. We gossip. We can get the inside scoop on what a guy is really like before we even talk to him.
And if you treat women badly, they can destroy you through networking and social media. :p
Yup, women gossip. So do men. I never understood women's gossip, especially in high school. They would be going on about who wore what bra last week Tuesday. I just don't care.
I'm reflecting on Donna's post.
I had a similar sort of experience. One man I was nervous coming out to was a guy who I worked with for many years ago.. He is a big Ocker guy, rough as guts and very nice and tolerant.
When I did come out to him, in a drunken out of control crying conversation when my life was in tatters and trying to live as a guy, he hugged me and kissed me and said everything would be OK. He knew about Cindy for years before I came out and he and his wife and children have been awesome.
He is still one of very few work colleagues who when we meet will walk up to me, kiss me and treat me as he treats every other female friend.
I like men. I love many of the men on this site, they are very close to my heart. Some are also in line to be a floor rug decoration :laugh: >:-) (sorry honey!).
People are people and it is people who can understand and accept themselves that are nice to be around. But many people be they trans* or cis don't understand themselves. That can be a problem.
I think I need some fur guards. BTW, love your new avatar a whole bunch. You look awesome!
Emily, car talk makes sense. As to the party and all the shenanigans that go with, that is humor at its best.
Quote from: LordKAT on August 31, 2013, 07:51:51 AM
Emily, car talk makes sense. As to the party and all the shenanigans that go with, that is humor at its best.
Whatever :)
/me blows kiss
I love talking about cars and women, honestly. I don't drink though, so I would be useless in the party talk. I hate the idea of posing control of myself. But getting a sexy woman in a sexy car...definitely something I'd brag about to my dude friends.
I have an alcoholic friend. He said he finally figured out that it was more fun partying after he was sober a few years. He got to laugh at their antics and drink (soda) free all night. He could have just as much fun sober. 12 years and he is still sober and partying.
He probably has more stories than those of us who still drink.
I love cars. But when you start talking cubic inches and displacement and god knows what else, I'm lost. I just want them to shut up, get out of my way and let me drive. And from my own experiences, yes, seeing your best friends do the funniest things while drunk is awesome, because chances are, they wont remember in the morning.
They may remember, but who would ever admit it?
Thanks "Amy The Bookworm". I have posted a comment earlier in this thread - but you have expressed my feelings so much more eloquently than my attempt! Thank you.
Quote from: -Emily- on August 31, 2013, 02:35:30 AM
And guys would go about last friday evening party - who drink how many gallons of booze, what happened to him before he passed out, how terrible the headache was on the next morning (or whenever he woke up/was found by police in the middle of nowhere and had no idea how he got there and what was his name) and that this all was such a great fun and they are going to do exactly the same but worse in the next week too...
Oh, and another one was why car X was so much better than car Y, because it has this, this and that. Could go on for hours...
During those moments I always was thinking that I must be from another planet (had no idea about trans* back then).
End of quote
Or in my case, discussing the newest episode of how i met your mother, new video games and insometimes let the oers browse through my copymof the new pc games magazine (i have a subscription and so get them before they are in stores), used to talk about minecraft, internet memes, quite fun, but let's jut say i don't remember much of physics last year, i was too busy with iur weekly in-classroom update/discussion. Why would anyone care about cloes like girls do? Sure sme look very pretty, but as a discussion piece why not something like tv sows. I often kow stuff aut some shows that others don't know yet thanks to my english skills and i like teasing one pf them with spoilers. I like being a male and i am gladi am cis and ost ys i know don't talk aoutbhow much they drank.
I appreciate men. I was one for 20 years after all.
I never really got what the big deal was about them until I came out to myself as transgender and now four months later I am all about them. I still like women but there's just something about a man. :)
Just wanted to say...
I appreciate my man!! 9 years this last August, he makes me very happy and would be miserable without him! :P
Quote from: Harlow on September 20, 2013, 05:43:50 PM
Just wanted to say...
I appreciate my man!! 9 years this last August, he makes me very happy and would be miserable without him! :P
Yay I'm glad you're happy together. ^.^
Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on September 20, 2013, 06:48:20 PM
Yay I'm glad you're happy together. ^.^
Me too, and that he is fully accepting of me transitioning! He loves me unconditionally and I him, so lucky! I definitely picked a good one!! :laugh:
I revived this thread just to be appreciated again. :)
That is all, LOL!
Yes, I want to be appreciated too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_4X1dgV0Dw&feature=youtube_gdata_player (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_4X1dgV0Dw&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
I appreciate you! *huggles*