I have only been out of the closet for a few months but this is by far the biggest obstacle for me. I don't want to go full time except in circumstances when I have to. The way I see it is that as long as I'm stuck as a male I may as well dress like one. It seems easier to simply bind any breasts I might develop as a result of hormones and dress in my clothes while slowly getting hair removal and other feminizing procedures. I just don't see any point in dressing like a girl when I will not pass.
Go with what you are comfortable with.I spent just over 2 years from coming out to full time having electrolysis and growing my hair out so I had a good start when I went full time.
We each are different - different in our physique, location, social and cultural environment. I believe that SoC fails to grasp to this and besides the WPATH idea of RLE is really applicable only in open-minded traditionally western cultures. In the place where I live, I would be MUCH safer as a woman with some masculine features or androgynous girl than someone who is openly a man in female clothes. So, I took an advice from other members here on the board, which I found to be very sound and reasonable one...
Instead of going out fully open and risk loosing everything – personal ties, job, other issues – loosing which, by the way, would impede my further transition – instead, I am taking small steps, one by one, and seeing where they are leading me. The essense is to gradually shift the presentation from openly male towards the female spectrum – to the extent when it would be impossible to deny what is before of their eyes. It allows maneuvering and experimenting for my side, and is much easier to accept for other people. So, patience is our ultimate virtue here.
:)
I tend to agree with putting off a full transition (not necessarily the same as RLE) untill you have to. I differentiate between the two since for about 3 years I was living part-time as a woman while being male for work and a few other things as required. So I feel a fair amount of real life experience as well as fairly confident in knowing I can be happy living as a woman as well as being seen as and accepted as one in many areas.
Since I most don't feel I "Need" to transition to full-time, I have no need to see how the employment aspect will work out. That is fairly crucial in my life right now. So for now, I get through each day the best ways I know how to while balancing out all my needs as well as those that rely on me
I've always thought that the required RLE was a bit too prescriptive. It assumes the progression always culminates in a transition. One could easily imagine people who want the physical changes but not the social changes.
Why do we find it easier to accept the opposite (people who transition without surgery) but not the people who might want surgery without transitioning?
Just one little thing about starting the RLT or RLE is remember to breathe.
Wish you a safe passage on your lifes path.
Izzy
just do whats best for you. rome warmt built in a day.
Thinking back, the way I did that back then was to start with adding many feminine aspects to my presentation. I bent the presentation so far that I got perceived as a girl at times, but mostly that was not so. I was a student then. I did this with clothing in part (sort of hippie clothes) but probably mostly by letting my manners and expressions go free. Giving off female energy one could say. Then I did my coming out to friends and started visiting group meetings. I did a bit of experimenting at that stage in going out presenting fully female when I was in these groups and on some other private occasions. Then comes a part I am not allowed to endorse but since the therapists wanted 12 months of RLT before HRT, I self administered (but I did let my GP do regular blood tests!) to get body changes while I was still a part-timer, at that stage increasingly presenting as a young woman at home in the shared student appartments and we went out partying as well. I took a break from studying then and went on to do some part time jobs in sequence and used that one to go fulltime. I also started to see a therapist at that time. When he asked me about going fulltime I was almost ready for that, having presented in my gender at home for many months, at parties for some months but not while studying. I did already see changes big time due to the HRT and my increased confidence and practice in terms of presentation (like covering that darn facial hair properly and choosing clothes that fit my persona and age and circumstances). So I went for the RLT after a year or so of part time experience and combined it with a change in work. I was lucky as when I told the therapist about self administering, he agreed to make this official and let a doctor check this as he saw that he could not stop me anyways. But as I understand it, many therapists only require 3 months or even no RLT at all to prescribe HRT, in that case I would not have gone that way.
So my tip would be to go slow, go part time, get experience, get comfortable, let your female expression creep into the male presentation if you like (they may start to think you are gay - screw them). Get a therapist who will not let you wait forever until HRT. If you are comfy enough in part time and have confidence that you will not loose the jobb or have a new job you can take up, you can make the change at work. I found it easier to just switch the jobs I had and start the new one already fully in RLE so I saved me the embarassment of outing in front of all except the boss and secretary who had my papers. I did crappy jobs at that time though, so this may not be an option if you have to pay for SRS yourself, in which case job and saving that money may be a priority.
I know how you feel but something changed recently that I thought I would share.
I was terrified and wanted to wait until that male fail stage around six-seven months of hormones where the face starts to noticeably feminize. I was happy waiting.
You know what? I am bursting at the seams to part time now.
I am still going to wait til I start to pass, and stick to safe venues with my friends... but darn it, I want out!
I hope that switch flips in you too. :-*
Quote from: Emmaline on September 26, 2013, 08:38:43 AM
I know how you feel but something changed recently that I thought I would share.
I was terrified and wanted to wait until that male fail stage around six-seven months of hormones where the face starts to noticeably feminize. I was happy waiting.
You know what? I am bursting at the seams to part time now.
I am still going to wait til I start to pass, and stick to safe venues with my friends... but darn it, I want out!
I hope that switch flips in you too. :-*
This is exactly what happened to me. I was content with staying in boy mode as long as I had to and was also quite nervous about going full-time. In fact my original plan was to wait until this December when I would be on hormones for 14 months to go full-time because I figured I would hopefully pass by then.
Well the changes started to become noticeable around 7-8 months in and that's when the thought of RLE went from anxiety to excitement. I couldn't wait to go full-time so I immediately accelerated other parts of my transition (namely my legal changes and voice surgery) and went full-time at 9 months. I'm surprised at how not nervous I was, and I think a lot of that is due to the fact that I finally feel comfortable in my body.
Hey Gene,
Wow can I relate, lol. Passing is key for me, and I know just what you are saying. At the same time, I've been dying to end the charade and start living as the real me. Not being able to do so is making me feel depressed and anxious. So, it very conflicting. At the end of the day, you do what you feel is best. My decision is to wait till I reach 6 months of spiro and e (end of January) to begin serious part time. Depending on how well that goes, I will then jump into full time shortly after (hopefully). In the meantime, I'll keep working on the things I need to do in order to prepare for game time. Remember, we all have different experiences and paths. Do what's best for you.
Quote from: Gene24 on August 23, 2013, 03:14:17 AM
I have only been out of the closet for a few months but this is by far the biggest obstacle for me. I don't want to go full time except in circumstances when I have to. The way I see it is that as long as I'm stuck as a male I may as well dress like one. It seems easier to simply bind any breasts I might develop as a result of hormones and dress in my clothes while slowly getting hair removal and other feminizing procedures. I just don't see any point in dressing like a girl when I will not pass.
If you skip over the standards and all the other legal mumbo jumbo, and just ignore that all for a second. It always comes down to staring down the cliff of going full time and the leap of faith that goes with it or staying where one is. I can only say that's about your own personal comfort. I myself would never have gone full time unless I had a plan to do it and felt I was ready. I had the physical aspects accounted for (electrolysis, hormones, hair, voice, ffs), the social aspects I simply had no experience in, and the legal aspects such as being able to show up for work every day, I learned the hard way.
I "wanted" full time so badly that it was all I could think of. I did everything as fast as possible so that I wouldn't find myself in genderless limbo for too long. Once my hair started getting long, and it was becoming obvious that the facial hair was disappearing and the hormones were making me look younger, I knew it was just a matter of time. But i did it when I felt I was ready enough that I could pull it off.
Believe me when I went full time, day 1, did I pass? Not a chance in hell. I may have been physically ready but I bet if I could look back now into my past, I am pretty sure I would get a good chuckle out of looking at me on some old video.
Quote from: Emmaline on September 26, 2013, 08:38:43 AM
I know how you feel but something changed recently that I thought I would share.
I was terrified and wanted to wait until that male fail stage around six-seven months of hormones where the face starts to noticeably feminize. I was happy waiting.
You know what? I am bursting at the seams to part time now.
I am still going to wait til I start to pass, and stick to safe venues with my friends... but darn it, I want out!
I hope that switch flips in you too. :-*
This was me as well, only with going full time. I work in retail and face members of the public every day.
In July at 15 months of HRT I decided "to heck with it". Male fail may never come for me 100% so why hold up my life waiting? I was getting tired of the double life thing and got to the point where I just wanted to move forward. I decided I would transition at work and legally in October.
Things changed a little (got more excited and impatient) and I ended up moving my date up to September. The funny thing was after that decision I started regularly getting gendered as female by customers at work while still presenting male. I just took that as a sign that my arbitrary decision was right.
For me, it came down to the day I could not go on living as a male. A day will come when you know that it is time to go fulltime. And on that day, you will no longer fear anything. You will be you and that is all that matters.
As others have said don't sweat the anxiety. You will know when. Mine came when women at work said they liked my Bohemian look. Polished nails, ear rings, tunic tops and leggings. They also said that I seemed so much happier and that was nice to see.
I told them at that moment that I was transgender and starting RLE, I had to explain what it was. Next day I arrived as me in a skirt and top. Every woman in my place had polished their nails.
No problems at all, it was time. I used the female toilet from that day on.
I could never go back.
Just ease into it -and this may sound silly, but enjoy it! Very soon you will be just another woman in the crowd of half the population of the world.
Quote from: ErinM on September 29, 2013, 03:38:44 PM
The funny thing was after that decision I started regularly getting gendered as female by customers at work while still presenting male. I just took that as a sign that my arbitrary decision was right.
Yes thats how such decisions work :)
Its funny and I cannot explain it sciency, but its like by making that decision, you tell the nonmaterial world that you did it and the world gets it without you actually doing everything in a material way.
I think the most i portant aspect to any transition is to take it at ones own comfortable pace! I get some people take time to transition, as we all do. Each of us stands in our own unique positions. For me, there really was no other option then full time. Sometimes i get misgendered as a male, but im still young into HRT, and basicly dove into it, like I do everything in life. Its a different perspective then slowly transitioning, in so many ways, and is a hell of a challenge. Mostly, people prolly think Im a soft butch lesbian. Which, is kind of true anyways, so hey lol. Im very femme in my actions, and approach to people amd situations. But Im very jeans and t shirt type kind of woman. No male clothes though, but at this stage my hair is still growing, and i need facial hair removal. If i were to give a pass ratio right now, Id say its 60/40, which while not the most comfortable, is slowly getting there to all the time status. Im just waiting on my new birth cert to arrive, really. Some people would say I took this really fast, some could say its a RLE mixed with HRT. I just look at it like high speed transition, really. To me, slowly doing so would have been torture, I have waited not only long enough putting this off, but work wise, i work with the mentally challenged. So to slowly become a woman in front of the eyes of the clients I care for every day would be detrimental to my job. As far as home/ social life, I look at it like an awkward phase where its akin to puberty. I mean, thats what HRT is right? But to slowly trickle into a female role would have felt odd, to me. I would rather people approach me with that 40% androgynous, 60% female then 100% male when it comes to appearance and interaction. I just felt to be taken serious in this with the conservative family we have, my wife and me needed to dive into this in full, which we did, and its all for the better. We both had high anxiety over how we would be treated in this, and those fears are all but gone now, minus o ly two family members. We arent complaining, it was def easier in most regards then we thought, asside from a slight embaressment at the secretary of state office on my attempt to get my liscence without knowing the proper procedure. They wanted a birth cert over a notarized physicians letter, so they are getting it lol. They deny fixing my gender marker once that arrives, its a lawsuit. But i am rambling on. I think in the end there are sooo many factors in each individuals life, that transition needs to mirror and balance out with those needs accordingly, otherwise it is itself detrimental to its sole purpose, and that is to smoothly intergrate into society as the right gender. :)
Thanks Gene24 for starting this thread. It's amazing how often someone asks a question that hits home. I love Susan's Place.
Whats nice for me is that its a good mix of 'oh my gosh thats ME exactly!' as well as the whole gamut of experiences.
Quote from: Ms. OBrien CVT on September 29, 2013, 03:49:50 PM
For me, it came down to the day I could not go on living as a male. A day will come when you know that it is time to go fulltime. And on that day, you will no longer fear anything. You will be you and that is all that matters.
Damn straight. I went full time months before even thinking about hrt. I just simply could not stand the thought of presenting male any longer. It was exciting and scary and liberating. I just jumped right in. Everything has gotten easier and easier since then.
This may sound odd. I really enjoyed RLE. It was a time that I became use to being me. I did learn, I did find that being a woman in society was different to being a man. True I have an ego of steel and very few poor experiences. I learned from the bad experiences to stand up for myself.
I understood that I would no longer let anyone hurt me again, I would not accept that.
I found me.
Facing the prospect was far worse than doing it.
Fear as ever is our ruler.
When we kill fear it does not rule us.
RLE? get use to deciding what to wear, do your make up. Park and lock the car safely. Look out for yourself.
Can you live your life?
It is a test, but it is a test for yourself, no one else.
I look back and think could I detransition? Could I pretend to be a guy again?
No.
That is what RLE is all about.
That is what the therapist wants to know.
That is when the letters (should) be written.
But one question still stands - in what way is that "real life test" a test of anything if you dont really pass. It is then not a test of how it is in society to be a woman (as if that was the main goal anyways for all of us) but more or less a test of how much you are willing to endure to show to people including therapists that you are dead serious. I think this is rather skewed for a test - who is more likely to pass this test - a girl who is insecure about herself as she inhabits a body that looks like that of a guy and who gets even more insecure if she still has to somehow - by clothes, makeup, correcting people in respect to pronouns - stand up for herself in a society that does not think well of such a condition. Or will a male more likely pass who is lets say a dead serious transvestite or has some other motivation for this and is very serious and dedicated about this, maybe has it all planned out already. I think #1 may make it but may also end up with traumas or even suicide while #2 would do great. This is not right. At least not if the RLT cannot be done in a way that really starts to closely approximate living a womans life which means good passing which for many means HRT and for some means other procedures.
It always bugs me that for many, that RLT is more a test of life as a TS than life as a woman.
That said, I think a phase of trying things out is needed - there is no clean break usually, there is usually always a time of some months were transition is a bit chaotic, where clothes do not match body, hair does not match anything, body shape being off, behaviour being childish or anything similar - maybe to put this off as a "real life test" and thus have a good excuse to be wonky is also sometimes a beneficial thing...
I agree with all of your comments. I looked at it as Experience not Test. I wasn't being examined, I was trying life out. I had been hiding at home dressed in female clothes for my entire life. RLE was going public, for me that was all it meant. Some sort of almighty boot in the bum to me to say "well you went to a therapist and told him you are a woman, see if you can live as one".
I did, it was frightening for a few minutes and I had to learn to cope.
I forced myself to accept me in society, society owes me nothing. If I wish to live as me, then it is up to me to do so.
I had a group of woman at work who seemed to have problems accepting me, that hurt. I worried about it, I wanted to fit in, I wanted to be accepted. I could hide, I could hope that if my appearance changed then I would blend in.
A waste of time, I was so well known that my male ghost always followed me.
So I spent everyday with that group. Visited the area, talked, went for coffee etc. I was was sick with fear initially. To be honest after an hour they accepted me.
In my mind RLE meant: how do I cope; can I cope wasn't an option.
JMO
There is no perfect system for anything. There are good aspects and poor aspects to them all, including transition. RLE is just that - Experience, in real life. Not going to group, therapist or clubbing presenting. It is being out in the real world doing the very real everyday things of life. You get first hand experience on what that is like, how it makes you feel. You get yet another major data point to weigh a critical decision on, rather then speculation, fear, or wishful thinking.
While it is in some aspects "A Test" it is also part of a process necessary to go through if you want someone else's help and others to cover the tab in the case of NHS. It does not take much effort to say the right things to gatekeepers. Informed Consent also has it's flaws. Just because somebody wants something, doesn't mean they should always have it.
Ultimately it comes down to a human system playing God.
Here's another reason why. Tonight my friend who knows that I'm trans spotted someone who was either a MTF or a male transvestite. She looked completely feminine except for her very broad, masculine calves. In either case, it was blatantly obvious and he basically just said "Is that a dude or a -..." That's not the kind of reaction I'm looking for here. If I wanted that, all I would have to do is put on some makeup, a dress, and shave my legs lol.