Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I wanted to see how androgynes relate to the issues, and plus a few more I added, from the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE) http://nctequality.org. To see how we fare with possible social injustices and inequalities. Even those outside the United States can answer as well although the NCTE is a United States none profit org. The social injustices are world wide.

Feel free to comment on the poll or the issues included.

QuoteNew Results after 16 Votes
Most Androgynes Experience: Over Half
Do you ever feel like others are talking about you behind your back.  14 (18.2%)
Have you experienced verbal abuse because of being androgyne.  12 (15.6%)
Have you experienced gender stereotyping limiting your abilities as an person.  10 (13%)

Many Androgynes Experience: About Half
Have you experienced unwanted physical touching or body contact because of being androgyne.  9 (11.7%)
Have you been harassed because of being androgyne.  8 (10.4%)
Have you ever faced work place discrimination. Unfair, unequal, wrongful termination, uneasiness, being held back from promotions. From your gender identity, expression, communication, behavior, thinking, or beliefs.  7 (9.1%)

Some Androgynes Experience: Under Half
Have you ever experienced physical violence because of being androgyne.  4 (5.2%)
Have you been asked to leave somewhere only because you are androgyne.  3 (3.9%)

A few Androgynes:
Have you experienced inability to marry another partner only because of your being androgyne.  2 (2.6%)
Have you experienced difficulty travelling because of you being androgyne.  2 (2.6%)
Have you been raped because of being androgyne.  2 (2.6%)
Have you been denied any public service because of being androgyne.  1 (1.3%)
Have you had problems with health service, health insurance, care, or medicines only because you are androgyne  1 (1.3%)
Are you homeless only because you are androgyne.  1 (1.3%)
Have you experienced difficulty in the military because you are androgyne.  1 (1.3%)

Old Vote tally

Quote
Have you experienced unwanted physical touching or body contact because of being androgyne.  7 (50% or half)
Have you experienced verbal abuse because of being androgyne.  7 (50% or half)
Have you experienced gender stereotyping limiting your abilities as an person.  7 (50% or half)

Have you ever faced work place discrimination. Unfair, unequal, wrongful termination, uneasiness, being held back from promotions. From your gender identity, expression, communication, behavior, thinking, or beliefs.  6 (43%)
Do you ever feel like others are talking about you behind your back.  6 (43%)

Have you been harassed because of being androgyne.  5 (36% about a third)

Have you ever experienced physical violence because of being androgyne.  3 (21% or 1 out of 5)
Have you been asked to leave somewhere only because you are androgyne.  3 (21% or 1 out of 5)

Have you been raped because of being androgyne.  2 (14%)
Have you experienced inability to marry another partner only because of your being androgyne.  2 (14%)
Have you experienced difficulty travelling because of you being androgyne.  2 (14%)

Have you been denied any public service because of being androgyne.  1 (07%)
Have you had problems with health service, health insurance, care, or medicines only because you are androgyne  1 (07%)
Are you homeless only because you are androgyne.  1 (07%)
Have you experienced difficulty in the military because you are androgyne.  1 (07%)

Transgender Help from popular English speaking countries. Read there for details for activism, current laws, and statisitics, and possible help for victims of such acts.

USA
http://www.nctequality.org/
http://www.gpac.org/

UK
http://www.pfc.org.uk/
http://www.gendertrust.org.uk/
http://www.tuc.org.uk/equality/tuc-8246-f0.cfm

AU
http://www.coalitionforequality.org.au/
http://www.sageaustralia.org/

NZ
http://www.genderbridge.org/

Canada
http://www.transalliancesociety.org/ (BC)

Hi,

   Sometimes men will touch me in ways that are uncomfortable that I don't see them doing with other men. An example is a man at work who will approach me and lean in close until his upper body is touching my side or back depending on what direction he has approached me from. I don't see him do this with others and I sense that he is thinking of me as a female. I know, I can't read his mind, but the body language seems to denote a desire for intimacy and anyway, I am highly empathic.
   I do not encourage this behavior. I've had this happen with several other men too.

  My partner will not marry me since I revealed my gender issues this past year or so. They are no longer issues for me. I am okay with my gender variance, but I did go through a time of wonder and learning to get here. She thinks I am going to suddenly decide to become a woman. I assume that one of us will learn as time goes by.

I have been subjected to none of those injustices.

-- Sue

Nor me, sorry to Rebecca though.

I had some yahoo mistake me for a tweak when I was a stupid kid. I was minding my own business. I never knew that some guys prey upon young boys until then. Beat me and left me for dead when he found out I didn't need to wear boxers. That's OK. I went back and killed his a**. For real. Schedule 40 is a great equalizer. I don't regret it for a moment either. I don't get mad, I get even. People need to stop being so nice and fight back. I don't take s&^% from anyone anymore.

I'm not sure if I qualify for this poll: I identify unambiguously as female, but I'm not (yet?) sure it's big enough a deal that I will ever transition. Anyway, I answered the poll, interpreting 'because you are androgyne' as 'because you don't conform to the traditional male model'. It seemed to work.

  Nfr

Hmm (yes I tend to 'hm(m)' a lot), I've had some annoying experiences from being called out, beaten up (lets beat up the ->-bleeped-<- dyke), and having men play gynocologists to find out if I wasn't 'hiding anything'. ::) Nevertheless, I have a pretty good punch (to use if necessary) and have learnt to ignore shouts. Therefore I deal with the consequences of being an open person, and since I've retreated from the nightlife scenario (bless being a loner) I haven't encountered any difficulties. 

blimey. where i live no one cares. about anything. ever. it's quite dull.

I've been (before I ever figured out I was androgyne--I've always dressed androgynously, even as a child) beaten up for being the "femmiest danged ->-bleeped-<-got we ever saw."  I've been held down by my hair and screamed at for being an "it."  I still start to cry whenever someone calls me an it.  I've been screamed at and called a ->-bleeped-<-got by passing cars when I'm walking along, only to scream back "Dyke would be closer."

When it comes to work, I rarely can make friends with the girls because I CONSISTENTLY say something wrong and then they all look at me funny and kind of shun me.  The guys tend to look at me as their little sister and put up with my "girliness" but they NEVER shun me for the exact same story or statement that the girls did.  I KNOW the girls talk about me behind my back--sometimes they don't go far enough away that I can't hear them.  My female bosses ALWAYS look at me as a thorn in their side because I typically end up in female-dominated work places and in some, I have to separate myself from the girls in order to be able to handle the workplace.  The job I'm in now, the boss was upset that I went and sat in a different room, but the girls would be silent when I was in their room and talk the second I left the room to get something.

Quote from: Pica Pica on June 20, 2007, 10:05:22 AM
blimey. where i live no one cares. about anything. ever. it's quite dull.

Be grateful, young one.

Where I work, they've sat me down and suggested that I dress more professionally but told me they were in no way allowed to tell me to do anything. I suppose thats leaps better then being told "cut your hair, fingernails, and shave more ofte, you're making the rest of us look bad.

M&M

Thank you for your honesty. I put the today's numbers in my first post in order. Looking through the answers shows how tough, dangerous, and even threatening just being yourself can be to others. The results here are things that should not be, but are because of many reasons. Lack of respect, intolerance, violence, inequality, and sometimes injustice. I respect everyone's pasts and struggles to be the persons that they are despite the mistreatments, unlawfulness, isolation, harm, and unfairness.

With some hope and good fortunes, the gathering and efforts of such groups like the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE) http://nctequality.org (or whichever group is in your own country) along with some media / news coverage can help change things for the better.

If you havent put your own experiences in the pools yet, feel free. The pools are open indefinate, and I will eventually update the prioritized list. Or also you can change your answers at anytime.

Hi Ken / Kendra,

    I think this poll is a good idea and I'm happy to have contributed to your project.


Rebecca

Is life tough, dangerous, even threating for someone who has an Androgyne gender identity?
I haven't found it to be so. I've not experienced any harassments or injustices due to my psychological androgyny. I have, however, experienced sexual discrimination and a few dangerous situations because I'm female-bodied - but that is an entirely separate matter...

There is a big difference between what is psyche and what is soma.

-Emerald  :icon_mrgreen:

Of course it may be that life is tough, dangerous and threatening to everyone. I live in a violent city and the only person I know who has been beaten up, was beaten up on a whim.

Quote from: Emerald on June 23, 2007, 12:26:48 AM

Is life tough, dangerous, even threating for someone who has an Androgyne gender identity?

In my case, I was raised in a community that did not accept any not-normative behaviour--and not-normative behaviour included being not 100% white.  I'm not purely white and I have never in my life dressed as a female as more than a hobby.  Same with dressing as purely male.  My typical dress, as a young child, was boys' clothes, pretty hair ties and girls' jewellery (I like shiny things.)  That is what resulted in other students attacking me and calling me "it" and beating me up and, on occasion, groping me to find out what "it" was.  Even though my name was feminine and they knew it.

As I've grown older, I've found that people assume I'm either a femmey gay or a bulldyke.  When they just see me, they lean towards femmey gay (I often bind my chest and I like baggy clothes that conceal my body).  If they hear my voice, they lean towards bulldyke.  I've received discrimination from people who think I am either one.

I am unsure if the unwanted physical touching is because I am female-bodied or because I look androgynous in an attractive sort of way.

I have been yelled at by strangers on a bus for wearing shorts without shaved legs. I refuse to go to swimming pools because women will actively say, "Eeewww!" and worse, because of my sasquatch legs and unshaven armpits.

My body odor is mysteriously masculine. A lot of otherwise straight women will sniff me and go, "Mmmm." But I have, in more than one workplace, been told to bathe more often and wear deodorant. In fact I do both, and unhostile observers find that I smell 'man-lite' and significantly less strong than male co-workers. I just don't smell like a woman.

When I worked in a factory assembly line I was laid off. I said to the manager, "I see the numbers, I know I assemble more parts in a day than anybody else in my position on the line, so why am I laid off when people who don't perform as well have been retained?" She said, "You don't make this a fun place to work." I assume what she really meant is, "You do not fart around with the girls giggling and talking about 'Ally McBeal' (a television show that was popular at the time) nor do you fart around with the boys giggling and talking about women's butts."

When I worked doing computer stuff, I was harrassed into quitting shortly after the business owners decided to allow clients to visit the shop. I am certain they didn't want their customers to see my weird-looking self.

I have very long hair and slick it back with pomade and braid it tightly. The patent-leather result is androgynous yet formal, it's quite common among both male and female members of the philharmonic, not to mention Stephen Fry. But when I first started at my current job my boss told me my hair was greasy and I needed to wash it more often. For quite a while she kept staring at me as if trying to figure out why I, someone she percieves as a woman, don't look quite right, and every couple of weeks she would take me aside with some bizzare complaint about my appearance. This was rather insulting, as her brains seemed inevitably to translate "looks odd" to "is dirty." Or informal. Once she told me that my clothes were 'a little too casual' and I was quite puzzled, because I wear a uniform that's the same as everybody else's -- the only difference is that my surgical scrubs are in subdued solid colours rather than bright pastels or prints of flowers or cartoon cats. Now that she's used to seeing me all the time, my boss has stopped peering at me with that amusing-yet-annoying confused expression, or mentioning how I look.

I put links to, in the most case, two different equality promoting TG groups from major english speaking Countries, above in my first post. You will see that most have common themes.

Hello, don't know if you have still interesting in this subject, but just wanna vote
I'm newe here and I was glad not to be the only one My answers;
Have you ever experienced physical violence because of being androgyne.
Have you experienced unwanted physical touching or body contact because of being androgyne
Do you ever feel like others are talking about you behind your back.
those 3, absolutely

I think if I had been male, I would have gotten much worse treatment.  The only one I could pick was "do you feel that people talk about you behind your back."  I KNOW people talk about me.  My family, friends, pretty much everybody.  Any unwanted touching or advances I've gotten are because I'm female, not androgyne.  The fact that I didn't like it probably had to do with being androgyne.  I HATE getting advances because of the way I look.  It makes my skin crawl.  My body doesn't define me.  That's just from men, of course.  As far as women go, it's more my family.  My cousin once saw me with a guy friend and told everybody that she'd seen me with a boy!  She was so excited!  Too bad he's gay.  And I had a friend visit from college and he went to church with me and EVERY SINGLE PERSON there thought he was my boyfriend and made a huge fuss, embarrassing me greatly.

Living in the south, being a "tomboy" is okay for girls and being a "sissy" is not okay for boys a lot of the time.  So my body is a blessing for me, no matter how much I don't like it.  :)

I've been stared at, been the subject of pointedly loud conversation, and been called a ->-bleeped-<-got. I worry about my safety sometimes. I don't dress flamboyantly and I'm very quiet, but I still draw attention to myself. I sometimes think that if I tried harder to be masculine, I'd draw less attention, but I don't want to tape my breasts down or act like a macho lunkhead. People don't read me as a butch, or even a lesbian, or as a femme boy. They see a straight teenage boy, but when they notice that I'm not, they get upset with me.

After looking over the list and votes, these results I am most concerned about.

Have you experienced unwanted physical touching or body contact because of being androgyne.  9 (11.7%)
Have you ever faced work place discrimination. Unfair, unequal, wrongful termination, uneasiness, being held back from promotions. From your gender identity, expression, communication, behavior, thinking, or beliefs.  7 (9.1%)
Have you ever experienced physical violence because of being androgyne.  4 (5.2%)
Have you been asked to leave somewhere only because you are androgyne.  3 (3.9%)
Have you been raped because of being androgyne.  2 (2.6%)
Have you been denied any public service because of being androgyne.  1 (1.3%)
Have you had problems with health service, health insurance, care, or medicines only because you are androgyne  1 (1.3%)
Are you homeless only because you are androgyne.  1 (1.3%)
Have you experienced difficulty in the military because you are androgyne.  1 (1.3%)

Quote from: Ken/Kendra on October 26, 2007, 06:50:48 AM
Have you experienced difficulty in the military because you are androgyne.  1 (1.3%)

Since that's me I'd better downplay it a bit.

That was essentially getting verbal harrassment from my superiors for not being man enough. At its worst it affected my grades during reserve officer training, but in terms of military career (or more accurately, lack of it) the overall effect was not really worth mentioning. All in all, in hindsight it was a positive thing, as it pushed me over the edge and prompted me to give up trying to be a man.

A few years later it was fun to read through the evaluations in my personnel file, though. Some of the entries written by those career officers who wanted masculinity (and were not satisfied by mere competence) were downright hilarious. Still, that was twenty-odd years ago, and I'd assume there has been some progress.

The others you mention are much more worthy of concern. Appalling and scary.

  Nfr

   I had issues in the military, but it wasn't with the military people, it was with myself.  I had a nervous breakdown because the military culture and style was brutal upon my soul.
   I had no real problem with people there, so I didn't claim it in the poll.  I just thought it was worth mentioning in terms of how a culture foreign to a person's soul can be painful.

   I should have been born a tree or a fish or a carrot.

Quote from: Ken/Kendra on October 26, 2007, 06:50:48 AM
After looking over the list and votes, these results I am most concerned about.

Have you experienced unwanted physical touching or body contact because of being androgyne.  9 (11.7%)
Have you ever faced work place discrimination. Unfair, unequal, wrongful termination, uneasiness, being held back from promotions. From your gender identity, expression, communication, behavior, thinking, or beliefs.  7 (9.1%)
Have you ever experienced physical violence because of being androgyne.  4 (5.2%)
Have you been asked to leave somewhere only because you are androgyne.  3 (3.9%)
Have you been raped because of being androgyne.  2 (2.6%)
Have you been denied any public service because of being androgyne.  1 (1.3%)
Have you had problems with health service, health insurance, care, or medicines only because you are androgyne  1 (1.3%)
Are you homeless only because you are androgyne.  1 (1.3%)
Have you experienced difficulty in the military because you are androgyne.  1 (1.3%)

You're right Ken/Kendra
I allready had give answer in the poll, but without explanation. Let's try...........

Have you ever experienced physical violence because of being androgyne.;
In 2 relationships long time ago( don't worry I've learn a lot in the past years ;).) before I knew the word androgyne. I am very open minded. ; when you have to deal with me, you know. I do really look femine, for some people attractive, so some people talk me to the mouth...(hope my grammar is right). At the first sight, you won't match me with feeling androgyne.But when you get a know me more, I'm masculine in behaviour. The guy in fact was thinking of beating / smashing it out of me. By the way it was also with words; and one thing I never forget. "Go to your gay friends and the hell with you."

Have you experienced unwanted physical touching or body contact because of being androgyne.Yes in the same situations like I did describe.

Do you ever feel like others are talking about you behind your back.Yes, but don't people does this all the time, if it's not about your gender, they wiill find something else.
So I don't care for this last one. ( maybe 11 years ago, but now it don't bothher me at all)

Finally saw one that I agreed with;

Have you experienced gender stereotyping limiting your abilities as an person?

I say yes, people expect me to not be able to listen, or to have more of an agenda then I do.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 26, 2007, 11:15:49 AM
Finally saw one that I agreed with;

Have you experienced gender stereotyping limiting your abilities as an person?

I say yes, people expect me to not be able to listen, or to have more of an agenda then I do.

YES; what you just wrote; that's most of the time my point.( Sorry that my english is not so good to express myself,lucky for me; my translate/ reading skills are much better)
But the question you made :-* ; that's in fact my problem, most of the time......
You've just made my day; what a relief
That's how I feel; and why I came to this forum,to find some recognize
Now you must think I am crazy; but I feel for the first time yes...understanding so THANX

Welcome,

Though I got the question off the poll.

But yeah, there are a hell of a lot of assumptions from all directions aren't there? People see the maley type bits expect you to be all closed and closeted. The ones that see femaley bits think you are gay or have a problem or something. When I just want to say, no expectations, no problem guv, I'm just living the way that feels natural like.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 26, 2007, 11:46:39 AM
Welcome,

Though I got the question off the poll.

But yeah, there are a hell of a lot of assumptions from all directions aren't there? People see the maley type bits expect you to be all closed and closeted. The ones that see femaley bits think you are gay or have a problem or something. When I just want to say, no expectations, no problem guv, I'm just living the way that feels natural like.

That's the best thing you could do for yourself, after all, you have to live your life with yourself.
If others have a problem with that it's them probmlem. And never make it yours, cause that cost you to much, I've found out by experience ;)
So now I am looking better with who is standing before me, before I get involved.
But I have to admit that sometimes a feeling of loneliness is inside of me, not always, but sometimes

It's possible that everyone stands in front of each other with that loneliness...

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 26, 2007, 12:01:20 PM
It's possible that everyone stands in front of each other with that loneliness...

You're right about that, but I think that everybody have go through his/hers own loneliness.
And that's good. it's better go through things than run from it ;)

You think loneliness can be beaten?

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 26, 2007, 12:09:20 PM
You think loneliness can be beaten?

Not really beaten, but it's good to stand in it. If you stand in it, and let it go through your body/ soul. The pain of it will not hurt so much any more. It makes you stronger. And it's normal that the feelings sometimes come back. But it's sometimes not easy to stand in it, cause it can give other feelings like empiness or others.
But if you are able to face it, means that you accept that your feeling are like you feel.
Accepting, makes it less painfull; and give you strenght to deal with yourself

Sounds almost Nietzsche-ian

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 26, 2007, 12:21:25 PM
Sounds almost Nietzsche-ian

I know the name, of the best men, but not his work; hmmm maybe I should now it? ???

No. But he has a lot of stuff to say about application of strength and the power that will can make and things. I personally just think he's a poor poet with a funny moustache. The complement in my above comment was the 'almost'.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 26, 2007, 12:29:29 PM
No. But he has a lot of stuff to say about application of strength and the power that will can make and things. I personally just think he's a poor poet with a funny moustache. The complement in my above comment was the 'almost'.

;D, I think I understand it; guess he's going more further in that believe/ point of view  than me. I am not such a die-hard ;)

I do realize, in one moment, we are gonna OffTopic :o sorry moderator!

Quote from: storm on October 26, 2007, 12:33:30 PM

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 26, 2007, 12:29:29 PM
No. But he has a lot of stuff to say about application of strength and the power that will can make and things. I personally just think he's a poor poet with a funny moustache. The complement in my above comment was the 'almost'.

;D, I think I understand it; guess he's going more further in that believe/ point of view  than me. I am not such a die-hard ;)

I do realize, in one moment, we are gonna OffTopic :o sorry moderator!

Don't sweat it, kid.  Nothing awful about being off-topic unless you entirely hijack a thread.

THANX Rebis  :-*