I am a humanist and there are relatively small but influential humanist organizations all over the world. Humanism is a secular philosophy and perspective on living an ethical life. Many faiths, religions, and spiritual practitioners have general rules about who can belong. We draw lines that keep some people out of the club. I like to think about a humanism that is inclusive and turns that line into a circle that brings everyone in. Humanism has been around and has evolved over centuries. We have an American Humanist Association that has created and updated a Humanist Manifesto that was last updated in 2003 as Humanist Manifesto III.
HUMANISM AND ITS ASPIRATIONS
Humanist Manifesto III, a successor to the Humanist Manifesto of 1933
Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.
The lifestance of Humanism—guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience—encourages us to live life well and fully. It evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.
This document is part of an ongoing effort to manifest in clear and positive terms the conceptual boundaries of Humanism, not what we must believe but a consensus of what we do believe. It is in this sense that we affirm the following:
Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies. We also recognize the value of new departures in thought, the arts, and inner experience—each subject to analysis by critical intelligence.
Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.
Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.
Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death. Humanists rely on the rich heritage of human culture and the lifestance of Humanism to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.
Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. The joining of individuality with interdependence enriches our lives, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all.
Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community. We seek to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability, and we support a just distribution of nature's resources and the fruits of human effort so that as many as possible can enjoy a good life.
Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature's integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.
Thus engaged in the flow of life, we aspire to this vision with the informed conviction that humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone.
So that is one humanist organization's kind of declaration or position paper if you will. I was an active card carrying member and chapter leader back in the 80's but my interests are focused more locally now and I have not tried to form a chapter in this rural area. Humanism remains a progressive and rational philosophy for me that may also be applicable to how you look at humanity. Best of luck on your personal journey and explorations.
Tessa James
Truly, much of what you have expressed has been on my mind for quite awhile but explaining it to others has proven to be a bit of a challenge :)
I wasn't aware that there was a Humanism group
Hi VM,
Yes, there are probably more references to humanism as some spooky, commie, religion hating, and dangerously secular idea. The people I met and know in the organized humanist groups often came from fundamentalist religious family backgrounds and were seeking not just atheism and a rejection of supernatural gods but a sense of belonging, community and a philosophy that makes rational sense. There are other humanist groups like the Council for Secular Humanism. Part of what I appreciate about humanism is the naturalism and regard for all of humanity that recognizes the inherent worth and value of diversity. I think, with the membership in these groups likely being less than 10,000 people, that we are hardly a threat or in a position to threaten christianity or religious world views. And then we do evolve and some european countries are becoming more secular so stay tuned.
Although I am not the religious type, I do believe in the freedom of religion and have no problem with people believing what ever they wish... But that doesn't mean I'm going to buy into any of it
I suppose these feelings come from the observations of hypocrisy that I have experienced, observations of the type who put on the holy moly and go to church and such and then behave like the devil the rest of the time
I have long felt that religion has no real bearing on whither a person behaves in an ethical manor or not, I feel that it is up to the individual themselves and their own conscience
Sometimes I tell people that I believe in Santa Claus if they press me too much, after all, Santa does keep a list of who's naughty or nice :)
I'm curious. Has your Humanism group attempted to apply for the same kinds of tax exemptions offered religious groups?
I'm not part of any organisation but am very much aligned with the thinking presented in you post Tessa. I think it would be the case for many people in Europe which is far more secular than the U.S., especially France.
Thanks for the post.
Donna
I fully agree with what you posted. You don't need to be religious or require a god to do good in the world.
Good morning friends,
Yawn, stretch, scratch and coffee.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses. The American Humanist Association has a charitable adjunct wing that raises funds and provides a tax exemption making it a 501 (c) 3 type outfit. They own a building, publish a magazine and have conferences but the mission and vision is more about education than building empire. Donna is correct about the european countries having larger membership in humanist groups and unorganized individuals living secular lives free from the dictates and superstitious references of many here. As a recognized and out advocate I have participated in direct action with other humanists for years on the front lines. We have acted as escorts for women at clinics that provide abortions and other legal health care as they have been targeted by the religious right. We speak up and support LGBTQ people in out struggles for justice and civil rights. I frequently found myself sought out by folks who wanted to have a debate about the existence of god or the meaning of my "empty life." I became comfortable with that notoriety but often preface the discussion by asking "is there anything that could change your mind about your faith?" Usually the answer is an emphatic and righteous NO! I try to point out that we are then engaged in an academic exercise where I am willing and ready to consider new ideas and new proofs but they are not. Basic laws of thermodynamics suggest a closed system is finite while biological organisms definitely depend on adaptability and diversity for survival. I do not feel smug but more a confidence that this progressive humanist philosophy is evolving with the times and as new information is available while not painting itself into a defensive corner.
We can sometimes be a bit studious with high minded and intellectual pursuits that I like to shake up with some irreverent humour. Like V M i joke about believing in Santa Claus, unicorns and fairies for which the usual proofs exist. I was raised as a roman catholic and attended parochial grade school and a military JROTC high school till I ran away from home at 16. Being physically beaten, humiliated and abused by the nuns who consider themselves the bride of christ helped me see very early in life that if this is what being close to god means I better keep at arms length. While history and our current culture are replete with loving and caring religious people we must also look at the personal and global impacts of discrimination and religiously fueled violence and war. It's not always pretty and with over 2500 different recognized religious denomination here the field of contenders for the ultimate truth seems crowded.
As a child I lived in fear of god and her followers. It feels much better to now be a freethinker.
Quote from: Tessa James on August 31, 2013, 01:44:48 PM
Good morning friends,
Yawn, stretch, scratch and coffee.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses. The American Humanist Association has a charitable adjunct wing that raises funds and provides a tax exemption making it a 501 (c) 3 type outfit. They own a building, publish a magazine and have conferences but the mission and vision is more about education than building empire. Donna is correct about the european countries having larger membership in humanist groups and unorganized individuals living secular lives free from the dictates and superstitious references of many here. As a recognized and out advocate I have participated in direct action with other humanists for years on the front lines. We have acted as escorts for women at clinics that provide abortions and other legal health care as they have been targeted by the religious right. We speak up and support LGBTQ people in out struggles for justice and civil rights. I frequently found myself sought out by folks who wanted to have a debate about the existence of god or the meaning of my "empty life." I became comfortable with that notoriety but often preface the discussion by asking "is there anything that could change your mind about your faith?" Usually the answer is an emphatic and righteous NO! I try to point out that we are then engaged in an academic exercise where I am willing and ready to consider new ideas and new proofs but they are not. Basic laws of thermodynamics suggest a closed system is finite while biological organisms definitely depend on adaptability and diversity for survival. I do not feel smug but more a confidence that this progressive humanist philosophy is evolving with the times and as new information is available while not painting itself into a defensive corner.
We can sometimes be a bit studious with high minded and intellectual pursuits that I like to shake up with some irreverent humour. Like V M i joke about believing in Santa Claus, unicorns and fairies for which the usual proofs exist. I was raised as a roman catholic and attended parochial grade school and a military JROTC high school till I ran away from home at 16. Being physically beaten, humiliated and abused by the nuns who consider themselves the bride of christ helped me see very early in life that if this is what being close to god means I better keep at arms length. While history and our current culture are replete with loving and caring religious people we must also look at the personal and global impacts of discrimination and religiously fueled violence and war. It's not always pretty and with over 2500 different recognized religious denomination here the field of contenders for the ultimate truth seems crowded.
As a child I lived in fear of god and her followers. It feels much better to now be a freethinker.
I can agree with a lot here, but I do wish we could all come together. As someone who isn't a theist, I do acknowledge there are plenty of religious people that would cherish the works and values of humanist organizations. Believe me, I have worked with enough religious people on social justice initiatives to realize their hearts can be in the right place. While God isn't a prerequisite for being a good person, there are plenty of religious people who do good in the world as well. Belief in a god or not is irrelevant to me. Its about what you value, what you hold dear, and believe in general. Essentially, who are you as a person. I often look at the hostile religious debates between theists and non theists and it saddens me that it becomes so hostile. There is never a reason for us to fight so bitterly about this. Debate and conversation is fine, but hatred of people for their religious views isn't. As long as one isn't trying to force their religious values on me or society, then I don't have a problem with them (in most cases). However, once they cross that barrier, then it is time we fight in a political and social sense.
I'm not saying you would disagree with this. I just wanted to add to the conversation at hand.
Quote from: learningtolive on August 31, 2013, 01:59:28 PM
I can agree with a lot here, but I do wish we could all come together. As someone who isn't a theist, I do acknowledge there are plenty of religious people that would cherish the works and values of humanist organizations. Believe me, I have worked with enough religious people on social justice initiatives to realize their hearts can be in the right place. While God isn't a prerequisite for being a good person, there are plenty of religious people who do good in the world as well. Belief in a god or not is irrelevant to me. Its about what you value, what you hold dear, and believe in general. Essentially, who are you as a person. I often look at the hostile religious debates between theists and non theists and it saddens me that it becomes so hostile. There is never a reason for us to fight so bitterly about this. Debate and conversation is fine, but hatred of people for their religious views isn't. As long as one isn't trying to force their religious values on me or society, then I don't have a problem with them (in most cases). However, once they cross that barrier, then it is time we fight in a political and social sense.
I'm not saying you would disagree with this. I just wanted to add to the conversation at hand.
Agree completly with you LtL. I was educated by Jesuits and still remember most of them as some of the best people I have ever encountered. Today, two of my very best friends are practising catholics and also among the most decent people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Among many other things, both of them recently provided me with particularly moving letters in support of my Civil Identity Change. So like you, I would avoid lumping people into categories based on their religious beliefs or lack of same. As you say, what really counts are the underlying values.
Donna
LTL and Donna,
Bringing us together and finding that elusive common ground is facilitated by recognition of our shared humanity and values. I completely agree with you and readily acknowledge the worth and value of so many wonderful people that have or are proponents of religious faith. If there is any need to judge us then I trust we will all do better by looking at our deeds rather than our oratory and rhetoric.
Polarization is sadly on the rise as a politically divisive tool that often results in gridlock and suspicion.
I work with natural resource and conservation groups that feature bringing stakeholders together and working on solutions vs suing one another. It is way too easy for some to say, I'm a good environmentalist and they are the bad guy loggers and exploiters. Instead, we work together to assess, plan, fund and build solutions for watershed and water quality concerns. Here in the Pacific Northwest saving our iconic salmon is a major priority and sitting down together at the round table is where we get going.
When it comes to current global issues like the proposed military action in Syria we again seek a coalition with people of faith. My Quaker, Buddhist and atheist friends share a desire for peace and non violent solutions that recognize the fallacy of "killing people for peace."
Yes,we have much to celebrate and a wealth of good ideas to explore together. Thank you for adding to this conversation
Kia Ora Tessa,
Most 'sane' people are humanist, but have yet to adopt the label... That is, there are both theist and non theist humanists...
I'm an atheist in what I don't believe, a rationalist in how I believe, and a humanist in what I believe... However as a Buddhist( one could also say I'm a Sentient Beingist ;D ) I don't deny Ultimate Reality...
Metta Zenda :)
You know, I try not to admit to being an atheist most of the time because there's so much stigma about it. My daughter has recently started asking a ton of meaning-of-life type questions, and I've had a hard time answering them. The word "humanist" doesn't mean a lot to most people, and when I explain how I feel and our ethics etc it comes across but not very well. We're still perceived mainly as atheists in a way that implies that we're somehow spiritually crippled or something. I don't like how our culture is so mean about not having a religion.
Anyway, I dig.
Hey Felix you furry happy monster! Yes, atheist is a flash point word for many people. I have often experienced condescension and the old "I'll pray for your lost soul" or why are you so afraid of god's power? stuff.
I also have an adult daughter and she was actually targeted at school because of my reputation and was constantly courted by the religious kids and families to join their groups. Peer pressure as a kid is incredible and I was unable to offer a relevant venue with her peers that could compete with the majority culture. We get along pretty well now but religion can still be a flash point for disagreement or sensitivity. I want her to see how often the very churches she attends are directly contributing to the hatred and political fight against our civil rights. My son on the other hand is a big brawler and suffers the fools not at all but I get weary about fights with far better venues for my time. I think you have precious opportunities to share with your daughter and explore these life perspectives. I trust you do so with sensitivity and encouragement.
Anyway thanks for the dig Dude.
Kia Ora "American members",
Tell me, is this stigma wide spread throughout the different states ? I was on a Buddhist forum a while back where this US member, lived in 'fear' of his neighbours finding out he was a 'practising' Buddhist, he lived in one of the Southern states...
Metta Zenda :)
Reading these posts and many others on this forum really makes me appreciate just how tolerant a country I have the luck to live in. For people like us, laws regarding civil identity changes and such are still very restrictive compared to many similar countries but just in terms of day to day attitudes, it is very much a live and let live culture.
As I mentioned in my previous post, while I am personnally an "agnostic athiest" a couple of my very best friends are practising catholics. We have discussed the in and outs of our respective beliefs plenty of times but always in a very respectful manner as on the things that count, moral values, we are very much in tune.
I admit that the people I mix with are mostly very well educated and this does make a difference. Nevertheless, tolerance is at least on par with Liberty, Equality & Fraternity in terms of the national values and would have to be one of the things I like most about this country where people mostly mind their own business.
Interestingly, foreigners often consider that French people's reluctance to ask lots of questions about you is down to coldness and lack of curiosity but in reality, I think it is far more down to deep rooted respect for people's privacy.
Donna
Kia Ora Donna,
It would seem what many of us 'non Americans' take for granted ie, "tolerance and acceptance" when it comes to personal beliefs, Americans (so it would seem) have to continually fight for....
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Kuan Yin on August 31, 2013, 04:17:38 PM
Kia Ora "American members",
Tell me, is this stigma wide spread throughout the different states ? I was on a Buddhist forum a while back where this US member, lived in 'fear' of his neighbours finding out he was a 'practising' Buddhist, he lived in one of the Southern states...
Metta Zenda :)
Kia Ora Kuan Yin,
Yes there is plenty of stigma to go around. We often refer to the southern states here as the "bible belt" and when a Buddhist Monastery opened near here there were initial rumblings and suspicious concerns. My wife is a frequent attendee and they have meditation and gatherings in the local library. I lived in a southern state for year or so and was cautioned about not talking about sex, politics or religion--my favs! Oregon had the unfortunate experience of being home to the Rajneeshees cult that in 1984 took over a rural town and actually poisoned people in a "bioterror attack" www.nydailynews.com/.../guru-poison-bioterrorrists-spread-salmonella-.
Oh for the love of god what wont we do? :angel:
Quote from: Donna Elvira on August 31, 2013, 04:21:43 PM
Reading these posts and many others on this forum really makes me appreciate just how tolerant a country I have the luck to live in. For people like us, laws regarding civil identity changes and such are still very restrictive compared to many similar countries but just in terms of day to day attitudes, it is very much a live and let live culture.
As I mentioned in my previous post, while I am personnally an "agnostic athiest" a couple of my very best friends are practising catholics. We have discussed the in and outs of our respective beliefs plenty of times but always in a very respectful manner as on the things that count, moral values, we are very much in tune.
I admit that the people I mix with are mostly well very well educated and this does make a difference. Nevertheless, tolerance is at least on par with Liberty, Equality & Fraternity in terms of the national values and would have to be one of the things I like most about this country where people mostly mind their own business.
Interestingly, foreigners often consider that French people's reluctance to ask lots of questions about you is down to coldness and lack of curiosity but in reality, I think it is far more down to deep rooted respect for people's privacy.
Donna
Donna I sure like to hear about that live and let live attitude. Viva la difference! Did I get that right? One of the criticisms of humanism is that during the enlightenment we dropped off the priests heads and ended up with souless, cubist, humanist architecture while neglecting the spiritual and soaring edifices like cathedrals. Art is so easy to define, not!?
Quote from: Kuan Yin on August 31, 2013, 04:17:38 PM
Kia Ora "American members",
Tell me, is this stigma wide spread throughout the different states ? I was on a Buddhist forum a while back where this US member, lived in 'fear' of his neighbours finding out he was a 'practising' Buddhist, he lived in one of the Southern states...
Metta Zenda :)
To keep her from being tormented by classmates and lectured by adults, I actually taught my daughter for many years to say she was southern baptist. I don't have anything against church or religious people and we had very little to gain and a lot to lose by being open about even agnosticism in Alabama, Florida, and Georgia.
Every state is different, and cities vary probably even more than states. Atlanta is more progressive than Bend, for example. For what it's worth.
Quote from: Felix on September 05, 2013, 12:45:23 AM
To keep her from being tormented by classmates and lectured by adults, I actually taught my daughter for many years to say she was southern baptist. I don't have anything against church or religious people and we had very little to gain and a lot to lose by being open about even agnosticism in Alabama, Florida, and Georgia.
Every state is different, and cities vary probably even more than states. Atlanta is more progressive than Bend, for example. For what it's worth.
Hey Felix I have family in Florida and Georgia and completely agree with your assessment. Hotlanta seems a pretty different place from the small towns nearby. Sounds like you know about our Bend cowboys too. I also appreciate your dedication to your daughter's well being. How is she feeling about the religious world now?
Humanism is soooo last century, it's all about transhumanism now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism)
Quote from: Kia on September 05, 2013, 05:40:53 PM
Humanism is soooo last century, it's all about transhumanism now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism)
"Although some transhumanists report having religious or spiritual views, they are for the most part atheists, agnostics or secular humanists." That is from the source you reference, Wikipedia.
Humanism is open to new ideas and is far from dogmatic even with a dated heritage. One aspect of human evolution that has been resoundingly discredited is Eugenics and I speculate that some emerging concepts that suggest human improvements through technology might just find us a little less human as we become part machine?
Thanks for the post Kia, I like to explore these ideas.
I think that's kind of the whole idea of transhumanism it opens up what it means to be humanism, since humanism has it's roots in christian theology and the general anthropocentrism and sacred humanity that accompanies renaissance Christianity. Transhumanism is an attempt to redefine humanity in the context of new technologies that will surely change what it means to be human. We already have the technology and foundational science for a self-determined evolution, conscious selection instead of Darwinian natural selection. Eugenics was failed scientific pursuit because it was based on deep inherent genetic traits particular to human ethnic groups and those traits just aren't there, i.e. there is no superior aryan skull shape.
There are, however, genetic flaws in the body. Susceptibility to disease, various forms of deformities and disabilities, all sorts of things. Eugenics was meant to produce a specific population of humanity that would be superior to all others, the transhumanist ideal is using science and technology to remove all suffering from all people. Idealist for sure and I have my own qualms with it but it is if anything more inclusive than humanism. Are cloned humans actually humans? Do they possess the same human dignity as those humans who are created "naturally"? There are scientists who are dedicated to uploading the human mind into computers; if there is no physical body, or if that body is composed of processors and microchips is that a human? transhumanism says yes, and I would have to agree.
As far as theism or divinity in transhumanism. Transhumanism could be seen as an attempt to "play god" a la Frankenstein (a great (trans)humanist story), I like to think (assuming there is a divine higher power) that maybe we were given these obnoxiously large and complicated brains so that we could piece together the ridiculous puzzle that is our existence. And now that we have pretty much figured out life and can start making some and altering it (again biological self-determination), it's kind of like an invitation to finish, or at least cooperate in the grand work of life. Like for the past millions of years of life god has just been grooming and guiding earth lifeforms and now god say "I've shown you the ropes, I'll let you take it from here."
We are just the universe experiencing itself and we're becoming self-aware and as we become self-aware then so is the universe itself and after self-awareness comes self-creation. Think of children; the younger years children usually just mirror and follow their parents. As they grow they start to form into there own person, first they start questioning and exploring (insert awkward middle school phase here) and then they find their passions and drives and they become a full on person no longer dependent nor emulating their parents. And if the universe is fractal, as the great mystics of history say "as above, so below" then it's entirely possible this is what is happening.
That of course is all just my own thoughts and in no way a statement of cosmic truth.
The ultimate cosmic truths remain to be determined, I agree and your efforts to explain transhumanism are appreciated. Yes the nazi approach to eugenics ensured a closed door failure.
Without challenging you personally, I do wonder what those genetic flaws could include? As you know many here at Susan's consider themselves flawed in one way or another and would readily have just lived life in the congruent gender. It's speculation but could transhumanism lead to world with no more diabetes, cancer or transgender people?
The origin of consciousness is still not well explained but I like to think of us along the lines of Carl Sagan's starstuff becoming self aware. I have yet to find a compelling reason to posit a god or supernatural sources for the multiverse and am excited by ongoing scientific research. We do not, after all, even know what the dark matter in the known universe is?
I look forward to more answers and a deeper understanding of our place here.
Yeah reality is pretty wacky and exciting. I think transhumanism is an attempt to remove disease and dysfunction from human existence, but at the same time it's open to exploring new avenues for humanity. My understanding at least is that the transhumanist ideal doesn't involve some higher agency ordaining what qualifies as properly human. But each individual and/or community decides this for themselves. So while the ability to eliminate things like cancer and diabetes from the species an individual is free to not be cured. As far as trans* people in the transhumanist future, advances in technology and science could allow us to effect our body sex whether through some kind of body/mind transfer, organ transfers, maybe instead of hrt we'll be able to reverse the puberty process and implant glands that produce the proper hormones.
It also includes more cosmetic changes and additions to the body. Computers in bodies i.e. cyborgs, improved night vision, extra limbs, better brains, animal attributes, really if you can imagine it. One of my personal favorite ideas is: when humanity eventually moves out to settle other planets the general scifi consensus is that we'll terraform the planet making it habitable for humanity. But given our current advances it would be easier to change the properties of the settlers rather than the planet, humans who are built for higher/lower gravity, who breathe more efficiently or don't need oxygen at all, etc.
Another scenario would be if a group of hip young people decided to electively change their bodies in radical ways.Transhumanism would say that despite these varied differentiations on the old human form they are all humans and deserve the same basic human decency that we experience in the present.
I've always seen science and spirituality as inherently answering the same questions and in a lot of ways coming to the same answers. (Funny story about the connection between the two, Isaac Newton invented calculus for his own alchemical work and he ingested a bunch of mercury in his lifetime, because mercury is significant to alchemists.) Quantum mechanics shows us that experience is subjective and that depending on how an experiment is performed or observed can change the outcome of the experiment. Many of the world's esoteric schools and master mystics also say that experience is subjective and that we as observers or as beings are integrally entangled with the world around us. The idea of self-aware star particles sounds like a fruity hippy thing, but we know it's a fact. Hopefully in the future religion and science can get over it's superficial, mostly social, differences and coalesce into a super cool way of exploring not just the universe but ourselves in relation to it.
Quote from: Felix on September 05, 2013, 12:45:23 AM
To keep her from being tormented by classmates and lectured by adults, I actually taught my daughter for many years to say she was southern baptist. I don't have anything against church or religious people and we had very little to gain and a lot to lose by being open about even agnosticism in Alabama, Florida, and Georgia.
It saddens me to hear that you need to do this for your daughter's safety. It reminds me so much of my childhood in uber-Christian South Africa. I came out as an atheist at age 9 and was bullied for it for the rest of my school career. :(
The default position in my country (UK) is to be a practising agnostic. Very few people attend church; in fact, it'd be consided a bit weird if someone born after the late 1950s were to admit to attending church on a regular basis. For most of us, we'd only ever enter churches for 'hatches, matches and dispatches'. In spite of this, the Church of England is actually part of our country's government and they receive money from every taxpayer, including me. Separation of church and state is a precious thing.
I'm a member of the British Humanist Association, whose members and supporters include Profesor Brian Cox, Stephen Fry, Ricky Gervais, Sir Patrick Stewart (yup, Captain Picard himself), Sir Terry Pratchett and of course, Richard Dawkins. With that kind of company, I can hold my head high whilst proclaiming my atheism in public, and it wouldn't be a barrier to public office either (our Deputy Prime Minister is an agnostic, for example).
Statistics show that America is becoming less religious too. It
does get better.
Thanks again Kia for an intriguing set of ideas and an invitation to consider a "super cool way of exploring...." Yes indeed "if we can imagine it." I remember handling mercury that escaped from medical instruments and can only laugh at that connection to Sir Isaac Newton.
FTM you are quite correct that even the USA is steadily declining in religious affiliations and attendance at churches. I am happy to be in a State, Oregon, considered the least church going. I am also humbled and honored by association with the short list you gave us of illustrious British Humanists. Fortunately for us, many of these supporters are outspoken proponents of science, evolutionary process and a rational view of the cosmos.
There is no end to our imagination and we will likely continue to create any manner of deities and supernatural concepts and sadly, as you say bullying. A medical student told me years ago when frustrated by an inflexible attending; Today's dogma is tomorrows dog->-bleeped-<-." I notice that Zeus and Apollo are not gaining many adherents lately outside of the comic books;-)
There is current behind science and religion and inside of each person, this wonder and amazement at how awesome reality is. A singular facet or aspect can absorb lifetimes of study and curiosity and when you stack them all together it leaves us speechless. And that feeling of the incomprehensibility of existence along with wonder can produce fear, and some people respond to that fear by bullying everyone else who doesn't accept their worldview. A forest with one type of tree would be boring, it'd be a christmas tree farm. I love that there are so many different ways people perceive the universe; it's what got me into studying religions (that and less math :P).
Imagination is so important because it's like a large hadron collider for ideas, we can smash together all kinds of things and new beautiful thoughts show up. It provides the necessary diversity of thought that is needed to make breakthroughs in human understanding.
I consider myself a humanist, but I feel the philosophy (or whatever) will never catch on in a major way because humanists tend to see shades of grey and the fluidity/non-existence of truth, which means it is hard for them to present a consistent ideal or worldview. Most people like to have a simple rigid structure they can easily understand and connect with and have a seriously hard time with big swirling blobs.
I love humanists precisely for being a big swirling blob of ideology though, so don't go changing :)
No we're a precisely defined cube! ;D
Quote from: Kia on September 06, 2013, 06:17:01 PM
No we're a precisely defined cube! ;D
I hope that is not the BORG coming to assimilate us!
Quote from: Jen on September 06, 2013, 05:20:59 PM
I consider myself a humanist, but I feel the philosophy (or whatever) will never catch on in a major way because humanists tend to see shades of grey and the fluidity/non-existence of truth, which means it is hard for them to present a consistent ideal or worldview. Most people like to have a simple rigid structure they can easily understand and connect with and have a seriously hard time with big swirling blobs.
I love humanists precisely for being a big swirling blob of ideology though, so don't go changing :)
Swirling blobs of ideology? Hmmm perhaps a movie title from the 1950s or a new rock band name? I can't argue with love tho..... :)
Kia Ora,
If you think about it :eusa_think: ....We are all humanists and practice humanism...Some are just better at it than others ;)
Meta Zenda :)
The big red zero has spoken
'Swirling Blobs of Ideology' is now the name of my new band... Sounds good to me
Quote from: Joules on September 07, 2013, 01:07:45 AM
"Free your mind and your ass will follow" -Jimi Hendrix
Hmmm, does this sound familiar?
Kia Ora J,
And look where that got poor Jimi... ;)
The mind's already free, only most people have yet to discover this....
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Tessa James on September 06, 2013, 07:25:48 PM
I hope that is not the BORG coming to assimilate us!
Not a problem: Locutus himself is on our side. ;D
Kia Ora Tessa,
I hope you don't mind...I just thought some of your thread followers would be interested in this (However if you feel it's inappropriate I'll delete this post and start another thread)
What would fellow humanists' ten commandments be ? (a few examples)
Richard Dawkins The alternative to the Ten Commandments
1. Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.
2. In all things, strive to cause no harm.
3. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.
4. Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.
5. Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.
6. Always seek to be learning something new.
7. Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.
8. Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.
9. Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.
10. Question everything.
Dawkins uses these proposed commandments to make a larger point that "it is the sort of list that any ordinary, decent person today would come up with." He then adds four more of his own devising:
• Enjoy your own sex life (so long as it damages nobody else) and leave others to enjoy theirs in private whatever their inclinations, which are none of your business.
• Do not discriminate or oppress on the basis of sex, race or (as far as possible) species.
• Do not indoctrinate your children. Teach them how to think for themselves, how to evaluate evidence, and how to disagree with you.
• Value the future on a timescale longer than your own.
The late Christopher Hitchens on the Ten Commandments
1. Do not condemn people on the basis of their ethnicity or their colour.
2. Do not ever even think of using people as private property.
3. Despise those who use violence or the threat of it in sexual relations.
4. Hide your face and weep if you dare to harm a child.
5. Do not condemn people for their inborn nature. ("Why would God create so many homosexuals, only to
torture and destroy them?")
6. Be aware that you, too, are an animal, and dependent on the web of nature. Try to think and act
accordingly.
7. Do not imagine you can avoid judgment if you rob people [by lying to them] rather than with a knife.
8. Turn off that ->-bleeped-<-ing cell phone.
9. Denounce all jihadists and crusaders for what they are: psychopathic criminals with ugly delusions and terrible sexual repressions.
10. Reject any faith if their commandments contradict any of the above.
• In short: Do not swallow your moral code in tablet form.
Metta Zenda :)
Kuan Yin thank you so very much for that addition. I admire Richard Dawkins and can readily accept his alternatives. Christopher Hitchens adds a bit of comic relief to his assertions and I like thinking about alternatives that are fun and positive. And then when we get right down to it some things really are just a big no no?
Quote from: Tessa James on September 07, 2013, 07:37:45 PM
Kuan Yin thank you so very much for that addition. I admire Richard Dawkins and can readily accept his alternatives. Christopher Hitchens adds a bit of comic relief to his assertions and I like thinking about alternatives that are fun and positive. And then when we get right down to it some things really are just a big no no?
Kia Ora Tessa,
We all have a built in moral compass that tends to guide us...Only at times it can be a bit (Basil) faulty (Fawlty) ;) :D
Metta Zenda :)