Well since Friday I have been feeling very annoyed at my friend and I don't really know how to confront the situation. Well it started a couple weeks ago at a store and I was wanting to try on a couple things there but wasn't allowed in the changing room because I still look to masculine unfortunately. This upset me because it made me feel rather self conscious about my body. Fast forward to last Friday I told my friend about my real life experience, the one who said I should wait until I look more feminine. The subject of the changing room came up, and this is where it went sour for me. She was telling me how it was company policy to not let guys, or even transgirls in my situation into a womens space, that even though I am trans she would feel uncomfortable and offended if she saw someone like me go into such a space. She was essentially kept reminding me that I still look to much like a guy and gave me absolutely no reassurance or support about the situation. I got really upset at her but couldn't say anything due to me being on a public bus going to my car from university. I have no clue what to say to her and I'm really upset about those comments she made to me.
Not trying to be rude, but its kinda how it goes, thats why 90% of people will tell you make sure your very confortable with yourself or make sure you pass fairly well first. I waited till I was 13 months into HRT to go full time and sometimes its still hard to pass
Julia, I'm very sorry to hear that about your friend. I would be kinda at a loss for words, too. It's a pretty insensitive standpoint she's fronting. Maybe she is just stuck in a rut of not knowing what to say?
As far as the dressing room...
It's a tricky situation, because so much of it depends on how you present yourself in that moment. What were you wearing or what do you normally wear out? Do you dress androgynous male? That might have had something to do with it if so.
Oh gosh Julia, I feel for you. The reason you're starting RLE is to really confirm to yourself who you are, if I understand your other threads. It's great, and I completely admire and respect you for the confidence and courage you show. It's something I couldn't do so early...
But, it sounds to me like your friend was being completely honest and on the level with you, giving you harsh, but factual ( in terms of store policies ) insight. That's a hallmark of a good friend IMO, telling you truths that perhaps you don't want to hear. Someone who doesn't care wouldn't bother.
Far be it from me to give you advice on what to do in terms of RLE, but please consider both sides. If you don't pass well, is it fair to expect the rest of the world to be fine and comfortable with you? What if it were a changing room at a gym or something? Consideration has to go both ways when dealing with the rest of the world.
I don't know what else to say. Sadly I don't think I've really helped much :(
I'm sorry, but I have to agree for the most part. Obviousy unless she was being malicious. But to me it sounds like she was giving you a bit of a reality check. If you don't look female it will be difficult for you to be accepted into the female areas such as changing rooms and bathrooms. That is just how it is. Whether it is lawful, fair or malicious is a different matter.
Also, if by "trans girls in my situation" you mean girls that don't really pass for female, then I can see her point of view. I assume you weren't wearing an ID badge on your shirt statiing you are a transgender person? To someone that just thinks you are a guy trying to use the womens facility there would be a cause for most women to be alarmed. I think you should take what your friend is trying to say to you as constructive critisism. If she was being malicious about itt that is different, but if she was trying to offer some advice you should take it as such. Support and encouragement come in many different forms. Sometimes in may come in the form of someone giving you some critisism you don't want to hear, but might need to. Just my opinion though. Good luck.
<3 Liv
Just go to the male changing room ?
Thanks for the thoughts guys. Giving it some perspective she was giving me advice but it felt insensitive to me the way she was delivering it. For the most part I'm perfectly fine with being a transgirl of my situation but sometimes it gets to me. The store in question was a mens and womens store but had a closed mens changing room for some reason. I'm aware of my situation and how for the most part I'm not fully accepted amongst the wider public and I have been largely rather careful with myself. I have yet to step in a womens restroom because I know I don't pass fully but I know I'm getting there. I honestly hate the fact I don't pass and I just don't like being reminded of it but I guess the truth hurts. I really want to start my RLE also and to me passing doesn't matter as much because I simply want to be myself, it also isn't going to change anything on my timeline for name change, gender change and surgery.
Quote from: JulieVB on September 16, 2013, 05:50:51 PM
Thanks for the thoughts guys. Giving it some perspective she was giving me advice but it felt insensitive to me the way she was delivering it. For the most part I'm perfectly fine with being a transgirl of my situation but sometimes it gets to me. The store in question was a mens and womens store but had a closed mens changing room for some reason. I'm aware of my situation and how for the most part I'm not fully accepted amongst the wider public and I have been largely rather careful with myself. I have yet to step in a womens restroom because I know I don't pass fully but I know I'm getting there. I honestly hate the fact I don't pass and I just don't like being reminded of it but I guess the truth hurts. I really want to start my RLE also and to me passing doesn't matter as much because I simply want to be myself, it also isn't going to change anything on my timeline for name change, gender change and surgery.
Not that I'm suggesting you rush to RLE, but I think wearing female clothing or obviously going for a female presentation you would likely not have a problem. If you presented male and tried to go into a women's dressing room I would not be surprised they turned you away without knowing at least the broadest sense of what you're going through.
If you are comfortable enough you can always try being up front with people by telling them a smidge about your current situation with being a new transitioner. Early on in transition small talk is definitely cheap but can be very effective. Chances are with a clothing store they will try to help you out however they can. I would imagine more luck with female employees... You might even get more help than the cis folks if you sport a certain kind of charm/smile/excitedness.
The truth doesn't have to hurt! A little openness can go a long way in this type of situation, and a little help from presentation cues will go even further.
I usually feel real happy when dressed up and for most of the summer, and completely the past 6 weeks or so, I have been presenting as female as I currently could. It's been a real confidence booster with my transition. Other than that I have been having some trouble because only one of my girl friends has offered me any real help. In public it's worse since I'm painfully shy but I guess reaching out for help would be good and I should try.
And BTW at the time of the incident I was actually wearing a dress.
It sounds to me your more annoyed with your friend's comments then not actually being allowed into the female dressing room. I would tell her calmly and as nicely as you can that comments bug you.
If you don't let her know, she may continue with out realizing how it is making you feel. I wish I could offer better suggestions but I've never been in that situation since I am pre-everything and honestly I'd be the type to wait till I felt like I could pass, only because I have very little self confidence....
I find what your doing very very brave.
Either way I hope my suggestion helps, or she comes around and understands what she is saying effects how you feel!
This is the sort of thing I was trying avoid when transitioning by choosing a sliding approach, not a fixed date that then is called RLT or something. I never got that idea of having such a sharp divide. Thats not how this works really as HRT is slowly taking effect, personality and manners and expression and looks all change gradually - why force it by calling it a RLT and then be shocked if the rest of the world does not get it. Of course there are issues with the sliding approach, meaning to simply present from your self more and more female (not necessarily feminine), to let your female personality shine through more and more and to slowly adopt all the things from other women that girls in puberty learn as well - to let HRT do some work, to change haircuts and shift clothing... Those issues obviously are that at some point you are in a place where you can basically neither use the male nor female facilities because some people will gender you one way and others the other way. So it is not really a solution in general, but it might be a good idea to not expect the whole world to accept you as a woman just because you made the decision to call this part of your life RLE. If it does not work at the moment, then dont force it too much on others. Its a bit of a delicate thing to determine for oneself the point at which one chooses to try using the other side of the binary gender expression when it comes to bigendered spaces.
I think for women to accept you in such spaces, you have to make it possible for them to see you either as a woman or at least as no threat (this may include gays and transsexuals). If they are not convinced of that, you will be denied access. I cannot speak of that situation in particular though as I dont know what happened, but the reality is that to get to the point one is openly accepted takes some time. One can try to push it a bit, but not overdo it or get a violent backlash of the women who just will not be convinced to let you in.
Hopefully I don't strike any nerves with this but i'm going to give me two cents take it or leave it.
I know "passing" is a point of contention within the trans community but there is a reason its so important and so sought after. If you're not making any effort to really present yourself as female than people aren't going to take you seriously. You can feel as female as you want but people don't feel your feelings they only know what they can see. If you look like a guy in a dress, people are going to be wary. The plain sad fact is that people just don't get us so we need to convince them that we are who we say we are. If you don't make the effort to do that they won't believe you.
Not to be mean but you don't seem to make much effort to be convincing. You look like a boy and not because you can't look like a girl you just seem afraid or unwilling to put in the effort. I know you've said that you are secure in your feelings so you shouldn't need to, but the world as a whole isn't going to buy it. It sounds like your friend is trying to tell you something.
Quote from: FreshGuy on September 16, 2013, 04:58:26 PM
Just go to the male changing room ?
I was thinking the same thing. If they were gonna make that big of a deal about it, then just grit your teeth and use the male one. I understand the meaning behind it but not everybody is open to Trans ppl so we gotta work around them sometimes
Quote from: JulieVB on September 16, 2013, 03:51:51 PM
Well since Friday I have been feeling very annoyed at my friend and I don't really know how to confront the situation. Well it started a couple weeks ago at a store and I was wanting to try on a couple things there but wasn't allowed in the changing room because I still look to masculine unfortunately. This upset me because it made me feel rather self conscious about my body. Fast forward to last Friday I told my friend about my real life experience, the one who said I should wait until I look more feminine. The subject of the changing room came up, and this is where it went sour for me. She was telling me how it was company policy to not let guys, or even transgirls in my situation into a womens space, that even though I am trans she would feel uncomfortable and offended if she saw someone like me go into such a space. She was essentially kept reminding me that I still look to much like a guy and gave me absolutely no reassurance or support about the situation. I got really upset at her but couldn't say anything due to me being on a public bus going to my car from university. I have no clue what to say to her and I'm really upset about those comments she made to me.
I dont know where your from, but here in the UK i think you can use the facilities that you feel most comfortable using! therefore if you are dressed and presenting as a female, you should use the female facilities!!!! I wouldn't get too unhappy about it though chick, some people are just unsure of what to do in certain situations, im sure the person in the store didn't mean to offend and was just unsure of what to do at the time!!!!!
As for your freind. i'm sure she wouldn't have meant to make you feel unhappy, if you were to bring it up with hee i expect she would be very sorry for making you feel upset!!! people often say stuff without thinking of the consequences, i wouldn't have thought that she meant to offend you!!! I'd definetely have a chat with her though, and just let her know that you were slightly offended, just so she knows!
Keep your head up though honey, your beautiful, and you shouldn't let things like this upset you!!!!
Love
Zoe
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