Hey girls.
well I just got a reply back fro Jessie at Yeson's in regards to Trachea shaves and the respone was as followed.
Dear Paige
When to have trachea shave doesn't matter. It anyway affects your voice if they make a high resection on your thyroid notch.
That's why we do not recommend it. If you really want to do that, we recommend you should receive the surgery with us to minimize the damage to your vocal folds.
Thank you and warm regards,
Now I'm sort of left at a crossroads. On the one hand I could not opt a shave which means a better result but having to live with the adams apple which I'm not too happy about or risk a Trachea shave and in doing so possible reduce the overall success of the surgery?
Sigh I don't know what to do :-\
Oh here's a pic of my apple with head stretched upward. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg571.imageshack.us%2Fimg571%2F9774%2Fvbjk.jpg&hash=be601732557555f80eda931a67c090184849cb12)
It's a tough decision to make. If anything, if you opt to get it done I would say have them do the trach shave, since they'll likely at least be a little bit better about doing it with regard to still trying to get the best results from the VFS.
It's really about the total look and not one area, so passing physically and with a feminine voice would likely be enough to not be clocked in most situations, even if you do have a slight adam's apple. To me it does't look like it protrudes that much, but I'm not sure how well I can judge it based on a single photo.
Really, the thing you have to figure out is how much dysphoria will it cause if you don't get it done? If you think it will cause a lot, then that right there may tell you what you need to know.
My adam's apple protrudes way more and I've HAD a trach shave ;)
Sarah is right on!
Thanks Sarah I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and wisdom on the subject :). I got a reply from Jessie and it looks like I may be a okay if they just shave down the thyroid notch it shouldn't effect my VFS results which is great as the notch is really the only thing that bugs me.
Dear Paige
Thank you for resending your e-mail :-)
Regarding your inquiry, Dr. Kim ,as a professional surgeon, will perform the thyroid cartilage shaving on you.
To not affect the outcome of VFS surgery, only a little ressection on your thyroid notch will be made.
Sorry before and after photos are not available. We will be glad to answer your further inquiries :)
Thank you and warm regards,
P.S hehe thanks Jenny you always know how to make a girl smile :). You are such a beautiful woman and such an inspiration.
While we were there...Jessie told my friend they could remover her Adam's Apple. The price? $2500 U.S.
Awww Paige thanks :D That is very very sweet of you to say.
You know how to make a girl smile, too, that is for sure :D
Yeah come to think of it again, I dunno. If I'd have known I was going to go to Yeson when I was considering trach shave surgeons, I might have preferred to have Dr. Kim do it. Honestly, I was risking it with Ousterhout because he has affected people's voices in the past due to being too aggressive with the shave. When I saw him though I was absolutely adamant that he didn't take off too much and he definitely listened to me, and of course he knew all about it. I did feel safe w/ him. But I also chose him because I knew I needed a very experienced aggressive surgeon.
I go back and forth, because on one hand I had an extremely protruding adam's apple. Like, whoa. I wish I had a before picture of the side profile. Actually Dr. O does have a pic! :o On the other hand I would have been seriously considering Dr. Kim due to my concerns about voice.
In the end, I am glad I went with Ousterhout because if any less had been taken off I can imagine it would get me clocked a lot more. There have been two occasions where someone mentioned it to me post-op, but both times were a month after the shave so I think maybe it was still a bit swollen. If I had less of an adam's apple like you, I would have given Dr. Kim a lot more consideration had I known I was going to go to Yeson for voice surgery.
I would ask more details about it if you haven't already... Maybe ask how he performs it, if there is an incision (if not = WOW) and where it is placed. I would highly recommend choosing a surgeon that places it under the chin. Nobody will ever see the scar even after just a week of recovery, and it's easier to see the vocal cords when you go in from the chin as opposed to straight through the front.
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on October 28, 2013, 12:54:13 AM
While we were there...Jessie told my friend they could remover her Adam's Apple. The price? $2500 U.S.
That sounds like a totally reasonable price, although I have heard of some U.S. surgeons charging as little as $1,500. With Dr. O I paid 4,600 :o Totally exorbitant, but I'm just glad I had no voice complications. And I really liked him when I met him.
$2,500 is right on the money
Just my opinion here. I sort of lucked out in never developing much of an Adams Apple. But some are not so lucky, and a large Adam's Apple is a dead giveaway.
Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on October 28, 2013, 01:23:05 AM
Just my opinion here. I sort of lucked out in never developing much of an Adams Apple. But some are not so lucky, and a large Adam's Apple is a dead giveaway.
*touches throat*
eeeek!! ;)
Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on October 28, 2013, 01:23:05 AM
Just my opinion here. I sort of lucked out in never developing much of an Adams Apple. But some are not so lucky, and a large Adam's Apple is a dead giveaway.
That it is... That it is, though luckily there are scarfs and stuff.
...not to mention, there are CIS-women with pronounced Adam's apples, too, who present quite effectively and thoroughly as female. It can seem, especially to those of us who are extremely sensitive to such things (since trans people are often *very* concerned about passing) to be a huge deal, but really women are far more diverse and sometimes-oddly shaped that I think we FtM's realize.
To me, it mostly comes down to movement and presentation and face as far as visual stuff goes. I don't look for an Adam's apple; in fact, I really don't see it unless I am truly studying someone. And if someone has the right movements and presentation, I am personally very likely to give them the benefit of the doubt if they have masculine facial features. I've known a number of women with very masculine faces who I'm pretty darned certain are CIS-female, to the point where even before I was trans-sensitive I would never have dreamed of asking for fear of giving offense to these wonderful ladies.
*hugs*
*hugs*
Two points - First, training to remove male resonance, which you will want to do, will train the voice box higher anyway to some extent. Second, as others have noted, many cisgender females have pronounced adam's apples. Go look for them and you'll see them.
So I've been considering getting a trache shave in the next few months and then follow up at Yesons in about half a year. I honestly don't know how big my adam's apple is, if I could get some feedback. I'm now thinking maybe getting both done at Yesons may be the better option. Originally I planned to use Dr. Z then Dr. Kim. These pics were taken 7 days after my initial laser treatment. I'm hoping some fall out soon :(
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs22.postimg.org%2F9rm8flldr%2FIMG_0122.jpg&hash=6dde9406979f56d833a65ba6baf9d9272f575e98)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.org%2Fchbg53tn7%2FIMG_0123.jpg&hash=c4ec2235b030f322d98670a2df2e1580a29236d9)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.org%2Fvck4r1wm9%2FIMG_0125.jpg&hash=2d8d6d577ba341a742893b5c2afc76c290741325)
Ginny, looks like the images aren't loading.
That's odd, I can see them fine when I view the forums. I'll try posting the links.
http://s22.postimg.org/9rm8flldr/IMG_0122.jpg (http://s22.postimg.org/9rm8flldr/IMG_0122.jpg)
http://s8.postimg.org/chbg53tn7/IMG_0123.jpg (http://s8.postimg.org/chbg53tn7/IMG_0123.jpg)
http://s27.postimg.org/vck4r1wm9/IMG_0125.jpg (http://s27.postimg.org/vck4r1wm9/IMG_0125.jpg)
Trache shave raises your voice? Does having it removed do that too? How much did it move your voice higher? Id love to get a quarter or half octave higher, since mines fairly high to being with. What about pitch?
Quote from: Sophia Hawke on December 02, 2013, 05:20:27 PM
Trache shave raises your voice? Does having it removed do that too? How much did it move your voice higher? Id love to get a quarter or half octave higher, since mines fairly high to being with. What about pitch?
No, trach shave does not raise your voice. This thread is discussing having a trach shave along with voice feminization surgery and the implications.
Quote from: SarahR on December 02, 2013, 05:27:32 PM
No, trach shave does not raise your voice. This thread is discussing having a trach shave along with voice feminization surgery and the implications.
Sorry i misread. How does/can this surgery effect your voice?
Quote from: Sophia Hawke on December 02, 2013, 06:23:19 PM
Sorry i misread. How does/can this surgery effect your voice?
You can find all of the information on their website, http://www.yesonvc.net/disease/feminization_surgery.asp. But in summary, it shortens the vocal folds to increase the frequency. That, along with resonance control, gives a more feminine voice.
There are a couple of threads in this forum pertaining to it, the recovery, and examples:
Jenny's / Abby's: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,139439.0.html
Mine: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,148880.0.html
If too much thyroid cartilage is removed during adam's apple shave, it can reduce the strength required to keep the vocal cords fully taught - especially with a procedure like Yeson's VFS which adds a bit of tension.
With trach shave alone, some unfortunately have a lower voice from the reduced support. That is always a risk of doing a trach shave
So I'm tossing two options right now.
1. Do Trache now, but air on the side of caution and do it "light".
2. Do Trache at Yeson with Dr. Kim so that they will definitely err on the side of caution so as to not damage their work?
Any opinions? I feel I have a decently sized adam's apple. :-\
Quote from: Ginny on December 02, 2013, 07:28:14 PM
So I'm tossing two options right now.
1. Do Trache now, but air on the side of caution and do it "light".
2. Do Trache at Yeson with Dr. Kim so that they will definitely err on the side of caution so as to not damage their work?
Any opinions? I feel I have a decently sized adam's apple. :-\
Yeah that is a tough call. I had mine shaved before I even considered Yeson. It's pretty rare for the voice to be affected from trach shave, and if it's not affected then you'll be fine. That's what Jessie told me.
The WORST scenario would be having Yeson doing it along with VFS, and not having enough of a visual difference- which would mean you'd be forced to do another trach shave AFTER vfs and potentially completely screw up your [already-invested-in] voice.
Honestly, I think I would rather go to a surgeon who has done the trach shave procedure at least 1000 times.
I agree with Jenny, I would probably get it done by someone who does it a lot. I had my trach shave done beforehand as well and have (am having) no issues. Initially I thought it may be better to have them do it at Yeson, but on second thought I don't imagine trach shaves affect the voice in most patients, especially if done by an experienced surgeon. I guess it depends on how prominent it is. Having it done by Yeson they'd probably be more concervative, whereas, getting it done by someone else may not.
It's a tough call though.
Quote from: Jennygirl on December 02, 2013, 06:52:59 PM
If too much thyroid cartilage is removed during adam's apple shave, it can reduce the strength required to keep the vocal cords fully taught - especially with a procedure like Yeson's VFS which adds a bit of tension.
With trach shave alone, some unfortunately have a lower voice from the reduced support. That is always a risk of doing a trach shave
What about having it removed?(i thought someone mentioned that). I understand about voice feminization surgery though. I've been on yesons website. I'm trying to stay informed about all the different surgeries and stuff that there are. Double so since im planning a top down approach to any expensive surgeries i might get, unless i come into 30k for srs all at once.