Anti-gay activist group admits trans school "harassment" is fake (http://www.transadvocate.com/anti-gay-activist-group-admits-trans-school-harassment-is-fake.htm)
The Transadvocate | Cristan Williams
The PJI is a right-wing activist organization and huge supporter of the ex-gay movement as well as the debunked practice of conversion therapy. Recently, the PJI stirred up the right-wing word by claiming that a kid in Colorado was helped by the public school system to harass cisgender girls in the restrooms. Right wing media outlets jumped at the story without conducting any fact checking, prompting members of the right wing community to call for the death of the trans kid....
In a statement delivered to the TransAdvocate by attorney Cathy Brennan, the PJI claims that a trans person in the restroom is "inherently intimidating and harassing." Brennan, vocal critic of trans equality measures, became somewhat infamous after she outed a trans teen to his parents and school, and recently attempted to intervene in the medical care of a transgender person.
After days of sidestepping any explicit statements about the exact nature of the supposed "harassment," PJI now asserts that the mere presence of a trans person constitutes harassment and intimidation to cisgender people.
(Emphasis as in the original)
Full text and sound recording of the interview with the School District Superintendent at the link above.
My comments:
This is not a continuation of the bathroom discussion. It is a discussion about the tactics and actions of trans-haters, now including the despicable Cathy Brennan.
It is clear that the "Pacific Justice (sic) Institute" was embarked on a smear campaign. They intentionally resorted to innuendo and deceit. Now they are in league with notorious haters. A match made in ... hell.
I believe it is incumbent upon all of us to be active in contesting and fighting hatred on any level. In saying that, I find Cristan's comments objectionable as well. Some media outlets jumped at the story. Many of them have retracted or disavowed the story, even from their opinion blogs.
This isn't a left/right issue so much as it is a fact/fiction issue. So where is the cavalry?
Not surprised it was faked.
I am sick of adults acting like babies, people need to learn to grow up and set a good example for their own children. Lies are almost always caught, and you end up looking like a bigger fool because of it. You can express your opinions in a civilized manner, but that seems a little too much to ask sometimes.
I am convinced it was all for stirring the anti-trans pot and raising more money from the willfully ignorant.
This story was so fishy I could smell it a mile away.
One of the excuses the haters always seem to use when it comes to transfolk using a public restroom is that some boys or men will take advantage of new, more liberal policies by using a transgender identity subterfuge to get away with a crime against women.
I wouldn't be surprised if the RWNJs try to plant a shill who actually harasses girls or women next time.
Quote from: Jill F on October 17, 2013, 11:18:18 PM
One of the excuses the haters always seem to use when it comes to transfolk using a public restroom is that some boys or men will take advantage of new, more liberal policies by using a transgender identity subterfuge to get away with a crime against women.
Reminds me of whenever a mass shooting happens (stay with me on this) that there is cries to ban certain things while completely ignoring that the crime in question is already illegal. The bathroom paranoia is more on that line of trying to appeal to those who want somebody to project them from the evils of the world; which is just about everything if you start with the assumption that the targets of the anti-trans* propaganda are of the "low intelligence" voter population (prone to manipulation of all sort).
It was exactly as I predicted. Her existence was the harassment.
Seriously, what is wrong with those people? Will all the outraged news outlets screaming for trans* blood now retract their vitriol and apologise? Don't make me laugh!
In a new low, an anti-trans blog operated by the despicable Cathy "Bug" Brennan, actually printed the name of the teen transgirl and referred to her as "a male student ... who claims to be transgender."
OK, I'm going to get on my soapbox one more time. (Unh. Ugh. Ok, here I am. Gee, it's kind of high up here).
I think we, as trans people, bring this sort of thing on ourselves. We've done a terrible job of educating the world about transgender bathroom issues. (And it IS our job. If we don't, NOBODY will).
People need to know that transgender women use ladies' rooms millions of times a day across the world without incident. That when we live as women, we have no option. It's simply the only place for us to go. That non-passing trans women are "just as female" as those who pass well, and that the fact of their not passing well cannot be a bar to their being allowed to perform bodily functions safely.
The vast majority of the world does not know this (though they might if they thought about it for a few moments) because our community has done a poor job explaining it all.
OK, back down off my soapbox.
Quote from: suzifrommd on October 19, 2013, 09:56:01 AM
I think we, as trans people, bring this sort of thing on ourselves. We've done a terrible job of educating the world about transgender bathroom issues. (And it IS our job. If we don't, NOBODY will).
I would encourage you to call into my live podcast and talk about your experiences along these lines. We've discussed the subject generally before but we're mostly cis folk a.k.a. peanut gallery. We only recently got our first guest co-host who is trans.
why don't they just stop bothering about how we trans people get along, and go use all that strategical planning and determination and spirit in saving the world from global warming instead?
Quote from: Miss Bungle on October 19, 2013, 11:55:13 AM
It is THEIR fault.
It always has been and it always will be. If these people choose to be schmucks that is their fault.
You're right Miss Bungle, but I can't help thinking that if gay people felt that way, they still would have marriage equality nowhere and wouldn't not be serving openly in the military at all.
People's ignorance
is their fault.
But it is harming
us. Therefore if it is going to change, it will be we that change it.
I know it is naive, but I believe that ignorance can be reduced by education. I spend my day as a school teacher and would like to believe my students do leave my presence knowing a little more than they did when they came.
Quote from: suzifrommd on October 19, 2013, 09:56:01 AM
OK, I'm going to get on my soapbox one more time. (Unh. Ugh. Ok, here I am. Gee, it's kind of high up here).
I think we, as trans people, bring this sort of thing on ourselves. We've done a terrible job of educating the world about transgender bathroom issues. (And it IS our job. If we don't, NOBODY will).
People need to know that transgender women use ladies' rooms millions of times a day across the world without incident. That when we live as women, we have no option. It's simply the only place for us to go. That non-passing trans women are "just as female" as those who pass well, and that the fact of their not passing well cannot be a bar to their being allowed to perform bodily functions safely.
The vast majority of the world does not know this (though they might if they thought about it for a few moments) because our community has done a poor job explaining it all.
OK, back down off my soapbox.
Well, Suzi, I have been active on several websites that persist making just that case. I can only hope the non-commenting readers of the comments "get it," because I am dealing with Neanderthals otherwise.
Quote from: suzifrommd on October 19, 2013, 12:45:11 PM
I can't help thinking that if gay people felt that way, they still would have marriage equality nowhere and wouldn't not be serving openly in the military at all.
People's ignorance is their fault.
But it is harming us. Therefore if it is going to change, it will be we that change it.
I know it is naive, but I believe that ignorance can be reduced by education. I spend my day as a school teacher and would like to believe my students do leave my presence knowing a little more than they did when they came.
I agree 100% and also the lesbian and gay community,didnt get those things without fighting ignorance.I honestly feel that the Trans* community has ALOT of pain coming.Its true im a realist and the truth is,i do not see any of this getting better in any form whatsoever.With everything going on,the unsolved murders,beatings,comments from our own leaders,lack of health care and these bathroom laws being shot down,It really makes me realize that things are only going to get harder.And just like past contempt and hatred,we are going to be forced to come out and fight for those rights,because we all know that the things society doesnt like,they have targeted to the fullest.Native americans,african americans,womans rights,the gay community and since ignorance is 10% stronger now then it was then *we just have laws in place to protect most minorities* There isnt any in place to protect the Trans* community *in most places anyway and if they are broken,they are never enforced* Like for example this very story.This in term is seen as *cyber bullying,harassment,and ruining of ones character* Hate speech is controlled only toward a certain group/minority but is allowed toward most Trans* people and if these things were toward anyone else,actions would have been taken already.Its sad and why i mostly stay away from these things.I cant deny the future outcome though but i know that if it does come to a fight for Trans* rights,then i will give my all and my life if needed.
As a "stealth" trans person, I have had a number of opportunities to educate ignorant cis people about trans issues, and I have usually taken those opportunities. The thing is, a lot of ignorant people won't listen to someone from the group they hate, but they WILL listen, at least for a little while, to someone they think doesn't belong to the target group. Since people don't read me as trans, they let me weigh in. If they're actual bigots, they won't listen. If they're simply ignorant, they often will. And, as a professor, I actually have the authority and the gravitas to shush a student every once in a while and say, "No, let me finish. You had your say; now let me have mine." I am not shy about it.
With cis people I have talked to, the bathroom issue has come up only twice that I remember, but I have made my views known on both occasions. If those folks had pegged me as trans, they probably would not have given me any consideration. But because they see me as cis, they listen. I have also talked with cis people about other trans issues without their knowing I was trans.
Actually, it kind of burns me up that some super-activist trans people tell me that because I am not openly trans, I am not doing anything for the cause. I volunteer here, I have contributed here, I have contributed to the TLC, I have educated colleagues, I have educated a couple of doctors, I have supported specific trans people I know (sometimes monetarily), I offer my trans students a safe and respectful space--it is even in my syllabus. I also talk to cis people as one of them, and they listen BECAUSE they think I'm one of them.
But trans activists tell me I do nothing. Well, sometimes I can do what they can't.
This really came out as a rant, didn't it? Well, it's not any less true for all that.
Arch, you don't have to be "out" to speak the truth. You are positive influence on your students, and that is where the gains need to be made. Keep doing what you are doing.
I don't know about anyone else, but I can't help but sexual harass people in the bathroom. I see a toilet seat and all I can say is "damn is that sexy". How could I ever control myself? And when I am in the male bathroom..... oh, don't get me started on how hot those urinals are. A girl like me simply can't resist the allure of those seductive contraptions. After being so hot and bothered, I simply need to release and sexual assault is the one way we know how. Oh, and of course I loove to use my genitals. Us trans girls are very fond of pentrating everything in site, especially those that are not consenting. We just need to have high heels on when we do it because it turns us on.
Please quote me on this. I'd love this confession to be put up on wnd as proof that we are deviants. I'm certainly not being sarcastic or attempting to troll anyone.
I see the education issue as having multiple facets. The public are obligated to educate themselves, and some do. But most who don't are either too bigoted or not invested in becoming educated. Therefore, we have to wait for the bigotry to die out. In the meantime, others must speak up. Openly trans people, "stealth" trans people, allies, advocacy groups, lawmakers, and law enforcers can all play a part. Nobody in particular MUST speak up except, perhaps, the advocacy groups and lawmakers, since that is part of their job.
The mere fact that we exist is harassment to some people. That we exist in public bathrooms is sexual harassment, in their opinion. And yet, all we are doing is BEING. Theirs is the true harassment, and they should be held responsible for it.
Quote from: learningtolive on October 19, 2013, 05:34:11 PM
I don't know about anyone else, but I can't help but sexual harass people in the bathroom. I see a toilet seat and all I can say is "damn is that sexy". How could I ever control myself? And when I am in the male bathroom..... oh, don't get me started on how hot those urinals are. A girl like me simply can't resist the allure of those seductive contraptions. After being so hot and bothered, I simply need to release and sexual assault is the one way we know how. Oh, and of course I loove to use my genitals. Us trans girls are very fond of pentrating everything in site, especially those that are not consenting. We just need to have high heels on when we do it because it turns us on.
Please quote me on this. I'd love this confession to be put up on wnd as proof that we are deviants. I'm certainly not being sarcastic or attempting to troll anyone.
The problem is, of course, we are dealing with those who have a mindset not open to change.
For instance, "God made men and women. This boy (sic) has a penis, so he (sic) should use the men's bathroom."
Me: "I understand, but medical science has shown that there are some people who do not have just XX or XY chromosomes, and others who have conditions in which they developed in utero unlike the genotype would suggest. Furthemore, gender is a mental and emotional identity, different from anatomical sex. The transgendered represent only 0.3% of the population, but they exist."
Retort: "But God only made men and women."
People like these will never be reached. But there are some who are open to reason and fact. Those are the ones we need to educate.
In some form of concept,this is true.If you look at it like this,One side is ignorant on the fact that being Trans* is a sexual orientation *which it isnt but gender* The more people understand that it IS gender related,those who were anti-gay,are now seeing the LGB community as a *less* of a threat because in their eyes *orientation* never effected ones *safety* E.G *dressing up as the opposite sex and gaining entry into said bathrooms* But with said ignorance,they do not understand the full complexity to being Trans*.Many *believe* that JUST being Trans*,is in its self-dishonest and purely the need to gain something untrue.Society isnt a mental or emotional place but only physical *only the outside matters and one reason they push sex,certain clothes/types of people to promote many things* For example,Society tells us that the larger the breasts,the more sexier you are.Knowing this,on the other side-The more that the Trans* community is targeted,the more the LGB community is more accepted *as separate of course and not as a whole.if you are a Trans'man and gay,it wont matter* I feel this is one reason that most LGB people are pulling away from the T,because of this.So in a sense,pushing the target to someone else,in the end will leave the Trans* community with no backers or supports other then local *for the people* and *pro rights for all* supports and personal friends and so on.I agree that education is very much needed but it will be a very long process because of the ideas that society has ingraved into most of human kind.Its not a worthless venture but it will take alot of patience,long suffering and smarts to accomplish.I believe you can teach today while holding your guard,being prepared for ANY outcome but always hoping for the best.
Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on October 19, 2013, 06:14:52 PM
The problem is, of course, we are dealing with those who have a mindset not open to change.
Quote from: Arch on October 19, 2013, 05:56:52 PM
But most who don't are either too bigoted or not invested in becoming educated. Therefore, we have to wait for the bigotry to die out.
I really think this is only part of the story. Most people ARE compassionate and ARE willing to change once they understand what's involved.
Witness the number of people who changed their minds about same-sex marriage once they knew out gay people and realized they just wanted to share lives with a partner like they did.
I'll take the lawyer for my employer as an example. He was neither bigoted nor closed-minded.
He just hadn't thought it through.
When he told me that "women won't want to share a bathroom with someone who has different genitals" he didn't understand how many non-op and pre-op transgirls use women's facilities all the time without people knowing. All he knew about transgender was what he'd seen and read in the media (we get surgery, then we're women). It hadn't occurred to him that no one knows what someone's genitals look like when they're in the next stall.
For people like him, don't you think a little education could go along way?
Quote from: suzifrommd on October 20, 2013, 04:43:34 AM
For people like him, don't you think a little education could go along way?
I don't have all the facts, but I'm still inclined to think that for him, it's exactly as I said: he was not invested in educating himself. Most people aren't, until something comes up and smacks them in the face...or bites them in the ass.
Transgender Colorado teen under suicide watch after harassment (http://www.glaad.org/blog/transgender-colorado-teen-under-suicide-watch-after-harassment)
A young transgender girl has been placed under suicide watch after a false story concocted by the Pacific Justice Institute accusing her of harassing other girls in the bathroom received national media attention. Florence high school superintendent confirmed that there were no incidences of harrassment reported at all, but one abject parent took to the media to voice their disapproval of allowing the trans girl to share the same restroom with other girls.
This is so sad.
Here is a picture of the transgirl in question:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transadvocate.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Fjane-doe-with-friends.png&hash=b157b7700e439156e4aefe4592a16e99698743a6)
Can you pick her out among her cis friends?
Trick question, they're all trans!
Here is another picture of the so-called "boy"
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthinkprogress.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2FJane-Doe-Colorado-Transgender-Student-241x300.jpg&hash=168d6c63b0ba7dbff810c4a14635b1f6c6554555)
Sometimes you have to put a human face with the story. I can not, for the life of me, figure out why some want to demonize this young transgirl for lawfully using the High School girls restroom.
She has been living as a girl since before she entered high school. She is now a sophomore.
The poor girl, I hope she gets the love and support she needs...
Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on October 28, 2013, 02:47:09 PMCan you pick her out among her cis friends?
It's cool that she blends in so well, but I need to say this bothers me slightly. There's an implication that the fact that she passes well is somehow relevant (And admirable? Empowering?)
IMO, it isn't any of those things.
If she were built like a linebacker with hands like Andre the Giant, that wouldn't impact the appropriateness of her using the womens' rest room, would it?
Quote from: suzifrommd on October 28, 2013, 05:53:24 PM
It's cool that she blends in so well, but I need to say this bothers me slightly. There's an implication that the fact that she passes well is somehow relevant (And admirable? Empowering?)
IMO, it isn't any of those things.
If she were built like a linebacker with hands like Andre the Giant, that wouldn't impact the appropriateness of her using the womens' rest room, would it?
The point I was trying to make is that this girl the "Pacific Justice Institute" was trying to demean by continually referring to her as a "boy," had seamlessly blended in with the other girls - there was no issue. They outed her and they made an issue out of it. Now she is the object of death threats, violence, and is suicidal.
The tactic being used was to call her femininity into question. Ergo, her picture provides a stinging refutation.
Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on October 28, 2013, 07:31:37 PM
The point I was trying to make is that this girl the "Pacific Justice Institute" was trying to demean by continually referring to her as a "boy," had seamlessly blended in with the other girls - there was no issue. They outed her and they made an issue out of it. Now she is the object of death threats, violence, and is suicidal.
The tactic being used was to call her femininity into question. Ergo, her picture provides a stinging refutation.
Don't want to belabor the point, but I'm still a little bit uncomfortable about this.
No. Her picture is not a refutation. Her looks and passability has nothing to do with her femininity. Even if she hadn't blended seemlessly, she would have the right not to be referred to as a boy.
The cis world insists that we blend invisibly into their world in order to have recognition as our new gender. Not only is this ignorant, but it also is impossible for some of us who will never pass for any one of a ton of reasons. I'm worried we're buying into their stuff, we're perpetuating discrimination against non-passing trans women.
Sorry about being on my soapbox, but I have a lot of non-passing friends, and I really feel strongly about this.
I think you're just seeing the bigger picture, Suzi. Good on ya! Hugs, Devlyn
Am I correct in thinking you are all taking about belief, appearance, acceptance and perception?
I believe and perceive myself as a woman. I accept myself as a woman and I appear as a woman.
In the general population none of those paradigms are questioned.
No one questions any woman that I have met about her femininity as far as going to the toilet. I know some extremely butch woman who readily pass as, but do not identify as male, who use the female toilets.
No one questions them.
I feel that many arguments that develop from the USA (and no I'm not bashing) result from an ingrained lack of acceptance of anything 'foreign' to a belief system. Fortunately that seems to be changing.
In other Western countries with similar culture these issues are just not issues.
Why?
Understanding that may help to progress the argument.
Quote from: Cindy on October 29, 2013, 06:43:48 AM
I feel that many arguments that develop from the USA (and no I'm not bashing) result from an ingrained lack of acceptance of anything 'foreign' to a belief system. Fortunately that seems to be changing.
In other Western countries with similar culture these issues are just not issues.
Why?
At the risk of derailing the thread, I hope you'll allow me to take a crack at this.
I think there is a touch of cocksureness that's fashionable in America. Can't speak for other places, but in America we like to think of ourselves as having the Answers while the rest of the world asks the Questions. We value sticking to our beliefs, perhaps more than other places with similar culture.
So if an American grew up assuming that genitals = gender, they may be less willing to change their minds than someone in a culture where people are accustomed to sharing space with lots of diverse viewpoints.
Or maybe it has nothing to do with this. Just speculation here.
Quote from: Jill F on October 17, 2013, 11:18:18 PM
One of the excuses the haters always seem to use when it comes to transfolk using a public restroom is that some boys or men will take advantage of new, more liberal policies by using a transgender identity subterfuge to get away with a crime against women.
A couple of questions that come to my mind when I read this in the news is "Today's laws stop bathroom assaults? Letting us use the proper bathroom will increase them?".
Merely passing a law never has deterred anyone from committing a crime if they are determined to do it, otherwise we'd have no crime. There are still theft, murder, burglary, arson, rape, assaults, and all kinds of other crimes committed every day in spite of the laws on the books. A person committing this very serious "possible" crime of assault would not be one of us - they would be a sick pervert.
Using the bathroom is a basic human right that everyone needs. The lies and manipulations that PJI did and told to try to prevent this young girl from accessing this basic human right in the name of "morality" is disgusting; it reveals their lack of character, substance, compassion, understanding, and yes, morals. These are not good people.
And somewhere in all of this mess a very young girl has been horribly damaged and forgotten since her usefulness as a pawn by PJI has passed. She will have to live the rest of her life stained by what PJI did to her.
It's exactly as I predicted. Her "harassment" was existing.
When an action such as harassment is redefined to mean the same thing as inaction, then all rationality and common sense have gone out the window.
Someone should start a meme about being "harassed" by harmless, inanimate objects. Like, "Man, I was totally harassed by a flower today. It got all in my face and forced its pollen up my nose, and I feel SO violated!"
Quote from: Silvermist on October 29, 2013, 09:33:11 PM
When an action such as harassment is redefined to mean the same thing as inaction, then all rationality and common sense have gone out the window.
Someone should start a meme about being "harassed" by harmless, inanimate objects. Like, "Man, I was totally harassed by a flower today. It got all in my face and forced its pollen up my nose, and I feel SO violated!"
I'm harassing the world now by merely existing! Now where is that moral fiber of society? Must. Destroy. Now. Mwahahahaha!!! The RWNJs have thusly empowered me. What fools!
OK, I made the image...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F35CoINm.jpg&hash=1fecb7d573e9045a5585ffcb7cf24b0dda6b169d)
I'm a bit worried. This harrassment story may have been fake but what if it wasn't? What if something like that happens soon? That wouldn't help our community at all.
Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on October 29, 2013, 10:43:00 PM
I'm a bit worried. This harrassment story may have been fake but what if it wasn't? What if something like that happens soon? That wouldn't help our community at all.
There's bad apples in every community, just some get more media attention than others. . . :( When I first heard of this incident, I thought it was a kid who's parents convinced him to or himself on his own doing pretended to be trans for the day just for the sake of making this new law to benefit trans students look like it was going to cause more harm than good. I wouldn't put it past people who are strongly against this law to do something like that, and then seeing the news was faked isn't surprising either. I could be wrong, but I do believe the law only benefits students with a doctors/therapist note diagnosing them with GD, so hopefully that'll prevent those who just want to cause trouble.
If there is a real trans student who does harass other students, I'd think their acts are wrong just like I would for anyone else. Hopefully the American public (oh. . . do I have high hopes today or not? ugh, I feel pessimistic) realizes that the majority of most subgroups are regular law abiding citizens who just want to live their lives in peace and harmony.
Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on October 29, 2013, 10:43:00 PM
I'm a bit worried. This harrassment story may have been fake but what if it wasn't? What if something like that happens soon? That wouldn't help our community at all.
I know that you mean well, but that just sounds like FUD. Just because it could happen doesn't mean that it will. What are the chances that any trans girl would have an irresistible urge to sexually harass other women in restrooms? In addition to HRT's well-known effects on libido, I would think that as a trans person, one would tend to be hyper-vigilant and self-conscious (for better or worse) about poor behavior that would only result in bad consequences for oneself based primarily on being trans, to say nothing of other trans people. It's just like how people of color have historically had to worry about whether they reflect poorly on their race: e.g., as the first black President, Obama's performance will influence how receptive voters will be toward future black candidates.
FUD is not reality; it's a distortion of reality for the sake of fear-mongering and hate-mongering. Let's please not be a part of it.
Quote from: Silvermist on October 29, 2013, 10:59:11 PM
I know that you mean well, but that just sounds like FUD. Just because it could happen doesn't mean that it will. What are the chances that any trans girl would have an irresistible urge to sexually harass other women in restrooms? In addition to HRT's well-known effects on libido, I would think that as a trans person, one would tend to be hyper-vigilant and self-conscious (for better or worse) about poor behavior that would only result in bad consequences for oneself based primarily on being trans, to say nothing of other trans people. It's just like how people of color have historically had to worry about whether they reflect poorly on their race: e.g., as the first black President, Obama's performance will influence how receptive voters will be toward future black candidates.
FUD is not reality; it's a distortion of reality for the sake of fear-mongering and hate-mongering. Let's please not be a part of it.
I wasn't referring to trans girls, I was thinking more along the lines of, as LearnedHand pointed out, some kind of person who would pretend to be trans in order to abuse the rule/intentionally hurt our community/etc. I'm a bit curious of how strict they've made it. And also I don't agree with what you said. Anything that can happen within a population as huge as ours WILL happen, sooner or later and if allowed enough time.
Quote from: suzifrommd on October 29, 2013, 05:53:17 AM
Don't want to belabor the point, but I'm still a little bit uncomfortable about this.
No. Her picture is not a refutation. Her looks and passability has nothing to do with her femininity. Even if she hadn't blended seemlessly, she would have the right not to be referred to as a boy.
The cis world insists that we blend invisibly into their world in order to have recognition as our new gender. Not only is this ignorant, but it also is impossible for some of us who will never pass for any one of a ton of reasons. I'm worried we're buying into their stuff, we're perpetuating discrimination against non-passing trans women.
Sorry about being on my soapbox, but I have a lot of non-passing friends, and I really feel strongly about this.
We, within the community, understand the larger point. However, as long as an organization like "Pacific Justice (sic) Institute" can propagandize, humiliate, and destroy a child, like they have done, then we are losing the battle.
As sad as it is to say, the onus is on us to continue to make the case in the court of public opinion. I agree in theory that it should not matter whether she passes; however, that she does and has been embraced by so many of her classmates adds credibility to the correctness of her (and our) position, and the rationality of the law.
I have been trying the last couple of weeks, to make the case that it is wrong to torment this young girl by making a monster out of her. The PJI plan was obvious - demonize and fearmonger. The response is to show the face of a sweet young transgirl who harmed nobody.
Furthermore, the people at PJI are lawyers. Their letter to the school attempted to make the case that harassment occurred. They know the legal definition of harassment. They know they could not meet the burden of proving that. Their tactics, along with fellow hater Cathy Brennan, have backfired. But at what cost? This teen is now suicidal.
Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on October 29, 2013, 11:34:00 PM
I wasn't referring to trans girls, I was thinking more along the lines of, as LearnedHand pointed out, some kind of person who would pretend to be trans in order to abuse the rule/intentionally hurt our community/etc. I'm a bit curious of how strict they've made it.
That still seems extremely unrealistic. If some predatory man were trying to harass and/or assault women in a restroom, there's no need to masquerade as a woman. Anyone who's not plain stupid would realize that in order to have a chance of being successful, the crime would have to occur when no one else is present, or when there is confidence/assurance that bystanders would not interfere. In a public restroom, that is almost impossible to guarantee. Pretending to be a woman would not make a difference. The public discourse so far has clearly demonstrated that women in restrooms are presumed to be vulnerable and need protection, so bystanders would be unlikely to remain uninvolved. On the other hand, the persistent demonization of trans people allows actual violence to be perpetrated against them in restrooms because so many bystanders would have no qualms about turning a blind eye, perhaps thinking that the victims are only getting what they brought upon themselves.
And if, instead of that, some guy were just trying to harm the trans community by committing harassment or assault for the sake of generating negative publicity, then we have all the more reason to be pushing for non-discriminatory restroom policies. You see, implementing such policies legitimizes and engenders respect for who and what we are, which would cast, in sharp relief, the pretenders who attempt to give us a bad name. In other words, if the public can recognize genuine trans people as real women and real men, then the phonies would be easier for the public to spot. For better or worse, information technology is so advanced and so widespread in our society, discovering that the pretender is not really trans would be a piece of cake. Thus, the damage that such a person could do to our community would be minimal or negligible.
QuoteAnd also I don't agree with what you said. Anything that can happen within a population as huge as ours WILL happen, sooner or later and if allowed enough time.
That an asteroid would hit the Earth someday and cause another mass extinction also seems inevitable. Recently, I read about an newly-discovered large asteroid that is on a collision course and due to make impact within just a few years. But do any of us (who do not have paranoid delusions) live our lives worrying about such an event? Of course not. All of this talk about how bad behavior will happen as a result of these "bathroom bills" is really a huge red herring. This is not a debate in which we should be participating, because our opponents are controlling the conversation. That virtually means that they've already won. Just by talking about it, they manage to smear our community by setting the terms of the debate to associate negative things with trans people in a topic that most people (i.e., cis people) take for granted as a "no-brainer." We are forced to be defensive against opinions held by the rest of society; we cannot win this way.
The real debate should have nothing to do with expecting trans people to conform to standards of appearance and behavior for what "real women" and "real men" are supposed to be. Instead, it should be about the tyranny of gender segregation in the first place. Within the anti-transgender rhetoric is also a lot of pure sexism to unpack, in terms of both misandry and misogyny. It's not just the "mis-genderings." When people have a problem with a "man" using a women's restroom alongside women, they are actually revealing their nasty, problematic notions of gender relations. They want to cling onto a worldview in which, by nature, men are lustful predators and women are weak, would-be victims. (I'm sure that almost none of us share that worldview, and trans guys be especially against it.) If you take that away, then there would be no argument about restroom accessibility for LGBT people. Passability would be rendered irrelevant. In fact, there would no longer be much of an argument for segregated restrooms at all...
Tbh I don't really see what we're arguing about. I'm just a bit worried that an event like this could happen and give fuel to those who are opposed to the idea to push us back. It doesn't sound unrealistic at all to me, it sounds like something that someone could easily try to do. And sometimes people and circumstances are too unpredictable for someone to say "This is very unrealistic because this person just wouldn't do this"
Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on October 30, 2013, 03:18:33 AM
Tbh I don't really see what we're arguing about. I'm just a bit worried that an event like this could happen and give fuel to those who are opposed to the idea to push us back. It doesn't sound unrealistic at all to me, it sounds like something that someone could easily try to do. And sometimes people and circumstances are too unpredictable for someone to say "This is very unrealistic because this person just wouldn't do this"
I hate to be cliche or melodramatic by using the following analogy, but I can't think of anything more apt. I presume that you're aware of the discussions about terrorism and homeland security in the United States for the past decade. When 9/11 happened, people suddenly starting perceiving terrorists and acts of terrorism everywhere on a regular basis. Could your brown-skinned neighbor be a terrorist? "It doesn't sound unrealistic at all to me," someone might've said. And then came all of the bogus security measures that didn't really make the country safer at all. At some point, the conversation shifted from encouraging witch hunts to declaring that the terrorists had won because they succeeded in making everyone suspicious of each other. And now, people aren't so paranoid anymore, even though the level of terrorist threats hasn't fundamentally changed.
Being merely worried about how someone's hypothetical misbehavior would hurt our cause just isn't productive. They want us to be worried. When their fear-mongering takes hold of not only the ignorant public but our community as well, the intended effect is that our own suspicions about our peers encourage us to back off and shut up. That's how they control us through fear.
As Jamie said, the onus is unfortunately on us. But that doesn't mean that we start giving into their rhetoric. Thus, our responsibility is to stand up and show the public what we are and what we are not. Then when someone does do something bad, it will reflect poorly on the individual person but not on our entire community.
I know that it sucks, but every civil rights movement has gone through this process. When racial desegregation happened, the doomsayers were watching for any incidents to prove their point and thereby undo the desegregation. So did any incidents happen? Of course they did. Interracial crime happens all the time. But even so, the public at large came to understand that individuals were responsible, not entire races or the mingling of races.
Are you familiar with To Kill a Mockingbird? The fictional court case was all about convicting a black man because the notion that he could assault a white woman was considered not unrealistic (and even likely) by virtue of his being black. The power of the story was in laying bare the injustice of prejudicial attitudes that condemn individuals simply for being members of oppressed groups. This high school harassment hoax is like a real-life To Kill a Mockingbird case (with gender identity in place of race). People are latching onto it because they want so badly to have their fears confirmed, despite the obvious bogusness of the story.
Earlier this year, we saw solidarity among the African American community in response to the outcome of the Trayvon Martin case; what we didn't see were African Americans coming out and saying that George Zimmerman's claim (that an
unfamiliar black man walking around a white neighborhood at night was
prima facie threatening) didn't "sound unrealistic at all." Perhaps it's an example that we should follow.
Linda Harvey promotes fraudulent transgender harassment story
October 30th,
A week ago, this column reported that Gordon Klingenschmitt had accused a transgender teen in Colorado of rape by harassing other girls in the lady's room, even though the original allegations against her by the anti-gay Pacific Justice League had already been confirmed by then to be completely false.
The student in question has reportedly since been placed on suicide watch as a result of these allegations. But in spite of all the accusations already being known to be a complete hoax, members of the authoritarian infotainment industry continue to promote them as fact anyway.
Following Klingenschmitt's lead, Linda Harvey of Mission America also played up the discredited harassment charges, which she derided as a sign that liberals are "using our children as guinea pigs" for their "diabolical experiments."
http://www.examiner.com/article/linda-harvey-promotes-fraudulent-transgender-harassment-story?cid=rss (http://www.examiner.com/article/linda-harvey-promotes-fraudulent-transgender-harassment-story?cid=rss)
I find it sad that many people will believe this because they don't follow it back to the source. I find it sadder that I have been guilty of the same lack of checking the facts.