I was having a great week. Had two first dates with a couple of great guys (gonna be a hard choice) and met up with an old friend. Than I come across this ->-bleeped-<-...
(https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/65639_1445686048991055_1173323657_n.jpg)
Found this outside Target by work. Felt I had to stand in front and block it till he left. The few people who signed it couldn't even look me in the eyes and scoffed when I pleaded them not to sign. The petitioner claimed he was an LGBT ally and had a bisexual friend so what he was doing wasn't wrong obviously ::). This came along with several underhanded insults like telling me I obviously look like a man and he could tell cus he's got "gaydar" for spotting it. Ugh. One family walked away with the parting "lets get out of here our kids don't need to be messed up more than they already are!" Great way to spend my Saturday. >:(
Still have that sick feeling.
I hear about the people that hate us every day but to stand next to them and have them do it to your face is something else entirely. Can hardly express how angry and frustrated I am. Should have just driven by but I cant be silent. Those kids don't have a voice they can't petition for their rights!
It's disgusting alright. Haters gonna hate, pure and simple. :(
But it was magnificent of you to confront them like that.
You deserve a big hug and plenty of accolades for standing up as you did. I am sure it wasn't easy to do, just as I am sure you are proud of yourself for doing it. Rather than walking away.
This is a very hot topic. I attended several of the Maryland Senate hearings on the TG Rights Bill, AKA Bathroom Bill. I was absolutely shocked at the testimony from "The Opposition", some of which came from "cured" TG's. Given a choice of being "cured" from this by being an angry hate filled person, or continue on this difficult path I am of joy and happiness, I'll take the joyful path.
I can only speculate that the LGBT "ally" was either "cured", or a devout believer that the 'T' is for Token, or a liar altogether. The 1970's "I can't be prejudiced, I know a black person" defense.
I swear, I'll never understand the whole "protect children" thing. Protect them from what? A bunch of chemically-castrated people with even less of a sex drive than genetic females? Oh nooo! ::)
In all seriousness, Maid, that was a REALLY brave thing that you did. And I imagine that you being there did indeed help put a face on the bill. It's easy to think whatever you want to about trans people when you've never really known any.
Okay, folks, I've cleaned the thread up a little.
Let's try and focus on the point of the thread, if we can.
Thanks. :)
~Seph.
Thanks for the support girls. If its any consolation, the guy told me that they probably won't have enough petitions by the deadline.
Feel glad that you handled it better than I would have. Probably would have kicked the table over, and maybe someone too.
I hate my angry moments, but stupid things like that deserve the anger.
I was thinking that I'd buy some charcoal lighter fluid and torch that.
Stupid bigots.
What wonderful strength you displayed!
You were brave to do what you did. You were right to do what you did. You were the right person in the right place at the right time. I would speculate that more people would have signed had you not been there. A victory in what is a very long fight. You are wonderful.
Hugs,
Jen
I agree with JLT1 said - you were very brave to do that. I admire your courage 8)
The bigots will lose and we will win because of efforts like yours.
And people wonder why so many transgender community members become activists. There are narrow minded bigots everywhere in the country, and you did what you felt was right. These people poison their children and the children of others with their hatred, and the children never have a chance to find the good in our widely diverse American culture.
We just canceled our 10th annual Halloween party for the relatives because my cousins won't let their children attend. Their ultra fundamentalist church says I'll contaminate children's minds. Wow.
Ugh. I'm so sorry you had to encounter that. That would have ruined my day as well. I don't know if I would have walked away in disgust, or gotten really, really, violently angry. Regardless, you should be commended for standing up to the bigots.
The last time I found a stall peddling hate(a BNP one with a pair of boneheads handing out leaflets) I picked one up pretended to read it and wiped my ass with it before throwing it back at them and walking off.It got a laugh from everyone watching except the 2 BNP wankers!
It is sad but something everyone needs to get used to and even expect worse as more and more demand for *their rights over ours*.It will be a very hard and long fight and i do not expect some to see the victory at the end.That said,i know how it feels because i deal with bigots on a normal bases though not face to face (i couldnt deal face to face because of rage issues) and the *fake image* they carry is astounding at best. youtube for example is full of these types of people (yes there is alot of support as well) but you will never see a video there without hate.Its coming through law,violence,petitions like this one and so many other sick things and if many succeed,it *will* cross into the very existence of us.Sometimes i want to be the super hero that goes out and battles all the T hate in the world and i may even do that but as a human.I know i cant avoid it on YT because its my nature to defend against ignorance or pure stupidity.It gets hard though after awhile.We are now the new *plague* and we have to get used to it but im happy you did something that was right,unlike many who turn a blind eye.I encourage everyone to carry a loaded weapon (no not a gun but knowledge) and if you ever come across this kind of thing,respectfully walk up and ask them questions *what do you personally know about being transgender/transsexual? did you know that----* and educate people and take hate with a grain of salt.Good job though :)
For the last 30 minutes I've been reading and re-reading this thread over and over. How utterly disgusting this kind of thing is. Irrational fear and hate all due to a lack of knowledge and understanding... Some people collectively have an awful long way to go...
Sadly, I can't think of a constructive response or reaction that doesn't involve kindness and education. I think that goes for most such situations. Otherwise it validates the hate...
Amazing you stood up Maid, but goes without saying be very cautious with actions such as this. Cowards seem to find bravado when a group of them shamble together and this garbage is practically a licence to lynch. The chance of physical confrontation with the types that would sign such filth could potentially be very dangerous.
Nevertheless, all I can do to applaud you is to +rep. Thanks for being awesome :)
You have shown that you are a far better human than they will ever be.
Hugs Sister
I know it's obvious but I can't help but draw the similarity between the icon in your avatar and the woman you've chosen to become.
It's because of YOU and other courageous people like you that we have made the progress we have.
Wonder if there is a way we could plant a proud transgender person in front of every such table statewide?
Maidoforleins, you are very brave. I do not know if I could have been so courageous.
It wasn't all that long ago when the same type of people were at the table saying black folk should not have the right to use the same restrooms as their children!
Here in Northern California there is popular, loudmouth church leader who is trying to push this turnaround thru...makes me sick
Thank you Miss Maid!
Quote from: Michelle G on October 27, 2013, 03:09:32 PM
It wasn't all that long ago when the same type of people were at the table saying black folk should not have the right to use the same restrooms as their children!
Here in Northern California there is popular, loudmouth church leader who is trying to push this turnaround thru...makes me sick
Thank you Miss Maid!
Sad thing it was a black guy at the table. He said it's not the same as racial equality because you can't change what race you are. We've all heard that one and the bottom line is they see us as choosing to be this way.
grrrrr!
Its NOT a choice! but the majority of people just don't understand.
The way I see it is it would be far more traumatic for a trans girl or boy to use the "opposite" restroom of their genders than it would be for them to use a gender matching restroom.
And these lunatics think that every school will have 100 or so trans kids with this ruling, when in reality they might have only 1 or 2 kids in the whole district.
grrrr again!
Pure ignorance driven usually by religion.. like we chose to be trans.... its not a choice.
Why I am an agnostic now..
Why are they not concerned about children that are trans.. that need compassion..let alone adult trans individuals...
People are driven by their fears of what they do not understand and can be fueled by their own insecurities.
This is why we need laws to protect people from people.. sad it has to be that way but so true..
Carrie
One problem is that I think there's a differentiation in a lot of folks' minds. Being transgendered means something different to them than it does to us. Or... well... me, at any rate. To me it's something I realise within myself. A state of awareness and understanding. An acceptance for the burning need for change and the need to undergo a process to affect that change. It's a means to an end. The end being to live my life as myself. Outside and inside in harmony.
Whereas to a lot of people it's the steps taken within that process of change. The process itself. That's where the idea of choice comes in. They see only the "what", but not the "why". The most basic understanding of someone being capable of feeling like something different to the bits which came attached at birth just doesn't enter into it. People seem to want to ban rights for transgendered people because of a failure to accept the idea that one could be any other gender than what anatomy suggests. It seems to be entirely physical with little or no regard for the mental. There appears to be a fundamental difference of thought pattern which conflicts the misinformed view of "You're <this gender> trying to go through life as <that gender>" with the reality of "You're <that gender> trying to be themselves."
Maybe if more folks could understand that being transgendered isn't a simply a process, it's a complex state of emotional awareness and self-awareness which facilitates that process, then the argument of choice wouldn't be so quickly adopted. What a lot of folks seem to be attempting to do is ban the symptoms rather than understanding the cause. To baulk at change, but failing to even try and grasp the concept of why it's necessary.
Sadly, many people don't even want to attempt to.
I applaud your actions, Jenn.
My dad gave me a hard time today for doing what i did because he was afraid I could be hurt.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 27, 2013, 10:56:20 PMMy dad gave me a hard time today for doing what i did because he was afraid I could be hurt.
On the plus side, he cares for your safety, that's something.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 27, 2013, 10:56:20 PM
My dad gave me a hard time today for doing what i did because he was afraid I could be hurt.
You
were hurt, hon. By people's ignorance, intolerance and insensitivity. And that's exactly
why you did what you did.
If there were more people like you in the world, it might be a better place for everyone.
Like Willow said, concern for your safety is a sign that your dad cares for you, so don't be too hard on him in return. Just remember, you did something incredibly noble and courageous. You took a stand. Something for which many,
many people are immensely proud of you.
The sad thing is that these cowards use innocent children to play on peoples fears. Why not be real and say what you really feel?? You don't want us using correct restrooms because you don't wanna pee next to a freak. I like my bigots straight up with no filter. People like this are fighting a loosing battle. Things are changing at a fast pace and it can't be undone.
What burns me up is that these creeps don't know a single trans person. Not one yet they act as if they have us "Figured out" enough to predict what we will or won't do. If some perv or sex offender is going to do something in a restroom they aren't coming as a TS. They're going to blend in so they do get caught.
Quote from: Janae on October 28, 2013, 03:17:59 AM
The sad thing is that these cowards use innocent children to play on peoples fears. Why not be real and say what you really feel?? You don't want us using correct restrooms because you don't wanna pee next to a freak. I like my bigots straight up with no filter. People like this are fighting a loosing battle. Things are changing at a fast pace and it can't be undone.
What burns me up is that these creeps don't know a single trans person. Not one yet they act as if they have us "Figured out" enough to predict what we will or won't do. If some perv or sex offender is going to do something in a restroom they aren't coming as a TS. They're going to blend in so they do get caught.
They have to use children as the fulcrum of their argument because it's the only way to be taken seriously and get a reasonable person to go to their side. Without "think of the children!" their argument is:
- Transgender people are going to spend thousands of hours and dollars on therapy, medication, surgeries... all so they can peek on me in the bathroom...
- Because I'm that special, and because all transgendered people have x-ray and laser eyes so they can see through the stall
The only time I see another girl in the ladies room is when I'm washing my hands or when I'm fixing my makeup... I have never seen anyone peek over the door, but I've only been there for a short while. :D
Amazing strength you showed, I would have brimmed with tears turned around and fled the scene. Then I would have gone home locked the doors and stuffed myself full of food and alcohol until my boyfriend had the unenviable task of shaking me out of my depression!
Quote from: Sephirah on October 27, 2013, 11:18:50 PM
You were hurt, hon. By people's ignorance, intolerance and insensitivity. And that's exactly why you did what you did.
If there were more people like you in the world, it might be a better place for everyone.
Like Willow said, concern for your safety is a sign that your dad cares for you, so don't be too hard on him in return. Just remember, you did something incredibly noble and courageous. You took a stand. Something for which many, many people are immensely proud of you.
Hear, hear! You were a true heroine, Maid ... just don't go doing what your namesake did and getting yourself burned at the stake! Or, at least, getting yourself hurt by the ignorant, mean-minded bigots you are brave enough to oppose ... The world needs people with your courage and strength to be alive and kicking against the injustices we all face.
I'd bet fifty bucks that when the guy who was running the petition got home, that he looked at the raunchiest transgender porn. Guys like him more often than not have deep self hatred. Wouldn't surprise me if he had trans feelings himself
See Ted Haggard as an example of self righteous projection
You know I don't ever give this any though anymore since I am done with the transition process. Strangely I am probably going to sound like I am on the opposite side here.
Think I am going to pose this question to you all. Would it be reasonable for a dude to put on a wig and go hang out in the womens bathroom? If he was called on it he just claimed he was trans something.......
I can say with certainty if this scenario happened to me and I was in the bathroom and a dude with a wig was in there I would not be happy.
May I suggest to you that a more reasonable approach to getting the rights you want would be to compromise. What do I mean? Well I tell you what anyone using a womans restroom perhaps should have at the very least a name that is female.....I mean a legal name..... How about that?
If the trans community fought for that I bet the normal population would be more amicable to law changes.
On the other hand gals like me just did what we had to do and didn't give laws much though..........it is ironic when someone has confidence and shows it the world leaves them alone.
Katie
I have seen a number of mixed bathrooms in the UK, this would cure everything! Sinks/Mirrors/Dryers are in the common area, cubicles are private and you can't peek into them.
It sounds hellish weird but you adjust to it quickly.
Well to answer you questions. Someone that has changed their name legally is an indication to the world (if challenged) that they are actually in the process of transitioning.
Now you mentioned some other scenarios and hey if you and others think you can convince the general world that that the laws should be changed to include anyone trans then be my guest. I am guessing you will win the lottery before you accomplish this one.
Katie
Give up? No. As I suggested I think if people fought for laws that had a compromise aspect to them the general population would be more amicable to those laws passing.
As I said it is totally ok not to agree with me..... a lot of people don't agree with me. I can even give examples..... take organized religion. It is and has been on a decline for years in America because they have not compromised their positions. That means they have not adapted to the fact that people today are less likely to follow their points of view. Perhaps people today have better bullcrap meters that go off when it comes to organized religion.
By the way the scenario I just mentioned is helpful to the trans community, less religious people the less they can influence society.
But that's an example of a group that does not compromise.
You also asked me if I am comfortable I stop fighting. Well I have nothing to fight for, I am a woman I use the womens bathrooms. I have since the day I began transitioning and never had a problem. What is it that I would fight for? Or as a voter what would I vote for? What law would I vote for when I have the same rights as any other woman? Aside from my states definition of marriage which the gay people are working on at this moment and I have no desire to get married anyways.....
Really? This upset you? There will always be those that don't understand, whose hearts are filled with hate, self loathing, and anger. It's a fool with a cardboard table and hand lettered sign. Tomorrow he'll be on another street corner with a sign warning us that the end is coming.
Be strong.
Quote from: DrZoey on October 28, 2013, 10:59:03 AM
Really? This upset you? There will always be those that don't understand, whose hearts are filled with hate, self loathing, and anger. It's a fool with a cardboard table and hand lettered sign. Tomorrow he'll be on another street corner with a sign warning us that the end is coming.
Be strong.
Wait a min here. For a layperson to say no to transgender laws is not necessarily hatred. As a matter of fact the way you put it makes you sound as hard lined as the opposing perspective.
As a woman I have serious reservations with a dude in a wig in the womens bathrooms or locker rooms come to think of it. If your suggesting this has something to do with haltered your wrong.
The world is filled with some dam creepy and bad people. People that prey on others as a matter of fact. When we go to the bathroom we are at the most vulnerable situation we can face and it is not wrong for anyone to want to feel safe in this situation.
Again if you take the stance you did I think your no different than to opposite perspective.
Katie
I think that the confusion arises (simplifying) from the fact that it is not certain
if the bathroom is for FEMALES or WOMEN.
If the bathroom is for Females then it is 100% certain that ONLY females can enter,
so XX genetically females, OR fully transitioned females (with ID changed).
BUT, the curious thing is that in that bathroom could enter also TransMEN who
genetically are females but they are taking T from a long time and the PASS as
men... :) ironically, yes? Because they have not changed the ID.
If the bathroom is for Women than anyone who identifies as a woman could enter,
regardless of her state in transition (I could also enter, also without HRT).
In that bathroom of course TransMen could not enter, because they do not identify
as a woman.
...
summarizing... if the bathroom is for females, then MTFs cannot enter, unless they
are completely Female (at least for the State)... regardless of their "passing" state...
but FTMs could enter, even if they pass as male ( Funny...), if they have not yet
changed ID.
If the bathroom is for women then anyone (also a crossdresser) who, in that moment,
identifies himself (HIM because he is a CD, he does not intend to transition),
as a woman, can enter.
complicated...
I never liked these types of people and my list grows ever longer each year, but I always have to concede that this is a free country and even the worst have their right to think and express how they feel until the thought police finally take over and everyone looks, acts, thinks and feels exactly alike, wouldn't that be an ugly world? You can tell I've been slogging through George Orwell's 1984, it's very depressing!
Legal or not, the guy is a douche bag. If i was there, i don't think I'd be as honorable as maid. I'd steal his list and flick him off. There is obviously no way of swaying his way of thinking. That's what fundamentalism does to people. Unshakable resolve
Quote from: Hideyoshi on October 28, 2013, 12:27:28 PM
Legal or not, the guy is a douche bag. If i was there, i don't think I'd be as honorable as maid. I'd steal his list and flick him off. There is obviously no way of swaying his way of thinking. That's what fundamentalism does to people. Unshakable resolve
The trouble with human nature is that you're never going to get everyone to like you or accept you or think like you and legally they don't have to in a free country. So everybody just get over it, live and let live and be a good example for others.
This is why i do not agree with opposing laws.What i mean is,everyone has an opinion *personal view* and everyone is welcome to it.For example if one said *i personally feel we shouldnt have went to the moon* then another can agree or disagree but say *your opinion is noted and thank you for it* but when it comes to passing any form of law,there should never be a personal opinion behind it.The state/country/world,should be ran with ALL in mind and not one.This just simply encourages forcing anothers opinion onto someone else AND it being okay.Now if one says *i personally dont want my kids in the bathroom with other kids who are different* (which i think is f***ing sick because,whose being perverted? the kids or the parents having some gross sexual images?) anyway,then that is on them but as far as adults go,how many public toilets are there in a park setting? depending about 4 different buildings with 4 stalls each inside.So for an adult to tell another adult (who mind you most likely has already been through therapy and diagnosed with GID) that they cant use ANY of them? because there *MIGHT* be a cis person in one of them that disagrees due to religion/personal views and so on.I myself said *i personally would rather piss behind a tree then make someone *feel* they are *threatened* and my therapist said off the record *wow..thats really respectful of you,that you would do that for the sake of someone else..* i shouldnt *have* to do that,like an animal.I mean im not worried about what mofo might do to me in either bathroom,because i would literally rip them apart (aside from packing) i would be one of those *huh oh..we picked the wrong target today* kind of people but it shows how personal opinion can alter anothers path/life and very existence.and most of the people with these opinions (the more it succeeds) it turns to outright hate.Sure let them openly express their opinion but a persons life is NOT up for vote and their opinions should never be forced onto another.They want sigs? then they can walk door to door,take it to a personal level and NOT sitting on the side of the street for the very people they are voting down,to see.
I should point out another aspect of the whole trans rights laws thing.
When people want to pass laws for this or that they have to stand up and fight for them...........
Aside from text on the internet I would say there are very few people fighting for trans laws. My suspicion is that the overwhelming majority of the trans people out there never leave their houses, have no desire to stand up and fight for something and risk exposure. ECT. ECt.
Im sorry but how the heck can anyone expect society accept and pass laws for a group of people that are almost never seen fighting for the very thing they talk about. As a matter of fact I really think it is just talk because if there is one thing I learned in life there are those that do and those that don't. The donts always outweight the dos and strangly the donts sit around and complain about something they aren't willing to fight for.
I have had people throw this back at me and ask why I don't fight. My response is I did fight for my rights and I went through the hell to earn them. I now have the same rights as any other woman. What is there for me to fight for?
Katie
Quote from: Katie on October 28, 2013, 10:13:21 AM
Well to answer you questions. Someone that has changed their name legally is an indication to the world (if challenged) that they are actually in the process of transitioning.
Now you mentioned some other scenarios and hey if you and others think you can convince the general world that that the laws should be changed to include anyone trans then be my guest. I am guessing you will win the lottery before you accomplish this one.
Katie
You seem to have a really defeatist attitude.
This law pertains to children, not adults. They can't decide to legally change their names, its up to their parents at that point. These children suffer every day and don't have a vote or a voice in how they are treated. You may have the selfish attitude of not giving a damn about the other trans people who are still fighting to be recognized, but I actually care about not seeing others like me suffer like I have.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 28, 2013, 02:17:09 PM
You seem to have a really defeatist attitude.
This law pertains to children, not adults. They can't decide to legally change their names, its up to their parents at that point. These children suffer every day and don't have a vote or a voice in how they are treated. You may have the selfish attitude of not giving a damn about the other trans people who are still fighting to be recognized, but I actually care about not seeing others like me suffer like I have.
For the sake of this discussion I take the stance of the general public. I further reiterate that since I am aware of very few trans people that ever fight for rights in the eyes of the world I submit to you that it must not be that big of an issue.......
As I said if it was that big of an issue I would think the trans community would be standing up and in the news fighting for these rights they wish to have. Strange thing is I never had any issues using the bathroom even prior to earning the rights I have. I just did what I had to do and I did it with confidence that said I belonged where I was. Nobody gave me a hard time. Come to think of it most of the post op girl I have known have the same sort of story. They stood up put their boots on and did whatever they had to do to be the person they became in the eyes of the world.
Katie
Quote from: Katie on October 28, 2013, 02:23:23 PM
I take the stance of the general public. I further reiterate that since I am aware of very few trans people that ever fight for rights in the eyes of the world I submit to you that it must not be that big of an issue.......
As I said if it was that big of an issue I would think the trans community would be standing up and in the news fighting for these rights they wish to have. Strange thing is I never had any issues using the bathroom even prior to earning the rights I have. I just did what I had to do and I did it with confidence that said I belonged where I was. Nobody gave me a hard time. Come to think of it most of the post op girl I have known have the same sort of story. They stood up put their boots on and did whatever they had to do to be the person they became in the eyes of the world.
Katie
It is an issue, there just isn't a lot of us. We make up less than 1% of the population. We cant assemble hordes and stage massive protests. Not to mention a lot of trans people are afraid to be outed. When our stories to make it to the headlines it's either because another one of us got killed for being trans or there's some rights issue going on. Just a couple weeks ago a 16 year old trans girl in Colorado got targeted with a fake news story claiming she was harassing girls in the bathroom. Now she's on suicide watch from all the negative attention and death threats.
Don't think because you're post op you're safe. You are still transgender not a bio woman and our enemies don't see you the way you see yourself and they still work against you regardless of how much of a woman you are in the eyes of the law.
Case in point
http://www.transadvocate.com/the-argument-against-your-transitioned-status.htm
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 28, 2013, 02:33:45 PM
It is an issue, there just isn't a lot of us. We make up less than 1% of the population. We cant assemble hordes and stage massive protests. Not to mention a lot of trans people are afraid to be outed. When our stories to make it to the headlines it's either because another one of us got killed for being trans or there's some rights issue going on. Just a couple weeks ago a 16 year old trans girl in Colorado got targeted with a fake news story claiming she was harassing girls in the bathroom. Now she's on suicide watch from all the negative attention and death threats.
Don't think because you're post op you're safe. You are still transgender not a bio woman and our enemies don't see you the way you see yourself and they still work against you regardless of how much of a woman you are in the eyes of the law.
Case in point
http://www.transadvocate.com/the-argument-against-your-transitioned-status.htm
Well I have not ever been given a hard time by anyone. I don't see anyone as what did you call it enemy. As I said earlier I stood up and fought for my rights myself and earned them. They were not given to me for nothing. I earned them. I don't live my life feeling like I am different than any other woman. You might think that forever I and any post op woman will suffer but in reality we for the most part carve a place out in society.
This is a very important discussion because the theme here is people wanting to effect change but then they don't fight for it. How can you expect society to accept any sort of change when the group wishing it does not stand up to fight for it. Now take gay marriage, gay people stood up and look at what is happening, slowly but surely they are effecting change. Last time I checked they make up a very small percentage of the population yet they are changing things.
If there is one very important thing I learned in life (and especially being trans) is that talk is cheap. So cheap that its often ignored. The only real thing that means anything is actual actions!
Katie
You are clearly blind if you think we don't fight.
Quote from: Katie on October 28, 2013, 02:23:23 PM
For the sake of this discussion I take the stance of the general public. I further reiterate that since I am aware of very few trans people that ever fight for rights in the eyes of the world I submit to you that it must not be that big of an issue.......
As I said if it was that big of an issue I would think the trans community would be standing up and in the news fighting for these rights they wish to have. Strange thing is I never had any issues using the bathroom even prior to earning the rights I have. I just did what I had to do and I did it with confidence that said I belonged where I was. Nobody gave me a hard time. Come to think of it most of the post op girl I have known have the same sort of story. They stood up put their boots on and did whatever they had to do to be the person they became in the eyes of the world.
Katie
How many african americans wanted to fight but didnt physically because of fear? its true that many dont come out into the open because of the lack of justice in the world.Many transwoman led home,only to be murdered and the law turns a blind eye.Beatings outside of a gay club,and they continue to get worse.People fight by voicing their rights everyday but a true transperson isnt out to make a statement by taking off their shirt,but to change opinions.A fight can be simply talking to family and giving them the truth behind the life of a transperson,a fight can be someone who stands outside of a law building with signs,a fight can be someone who takes the law into their own hands (which WOULD get any Transperson into trouble for sure) For me,im much more for the later as a person who is 100% fed up with the crimes but i would gladly rott in jail.Many cant and each fight is important like the others.like this OP,even if it was disheartening,it was a fight for the better though they handled it better then i would have.But it was STILL one.But the day WILL come when all will be forced to fight with more deadly means and we all must be prepared for the worst,doesnt mean we want it that way.Do you even know what sparked stonewall? even back then,the gay community didnt just *come out* screaming and fighting for rights.They spent YEARS in hiding,being controlled by police,killed,beaten and even unable to get within inchs of each other.One woman at stonewall *which was a controlled night club* screamed out as she was beaten and being dragged away to jail by a police officer.She yelled *help me!* which sparked rage by the rest who were (willingly) going along by hand cuffs.That is what sparked stonewall,one woman-just like one woman changed everything for the black community. dont disregard the Trans* community who is still in the stage of fear and oppression.
Quote from: DrZoey on October 28, 2013, 10:59:03 AM
Really? This upset you? There will always be those that don't understand, whose hearts are filled with hate, self loathing, and anger. It's a fool with a cardboard table and hand lettered sign. Tomorrow he'll be on another street corner with a sign warning us that the end is coming.
Be strong.
The unfortunate fact is that there are so many more of these "fools," they outnumber us. Hatred is a strong force to have to combat.
I have been trying to rationally discuss the issue of the teen transgirl in Colorado, who was falsely accused of harassing other girls in the high school restroom, with "Christians" and other reader of National Review, Charisma News, etc. Some of these people are thicker than bricks. We will never reach them. They will never have a change of heart. But by fighting for our right to survive, we may influence the open-minded.
Katie, if you've never been given a hard time, good for you. But lots of people have been given awful times, can't afford surgeries, don't qualify for hormones, aren't passable, etc
I personally wouldn't care if a 'dude in a dress' were in a female bathroom. Hold each person to the basic standards of 'don't be a creeper' and I don't see the issue. We have laws for peeping tommery, harassment, and assault, so everybody just needs to chill out
I read about the guy with the table and pen and say, "Oh well"
I read about hitting the guy with the pen and say "Idiot"
I read about burning the guys pen and say "Idiot"
I read about pouring water on the guys pen and say "Idiot"
Is this how you want to be seen? Is this how you would like others to treat you?
Set up a table and collect pro-transgender signatures. That's how you win, not by childish blustering.
Quote from: Miss Bungle on October 28, 2013, 05:38:09 PM
You can call me an idiot all you want. If I had set up a table in opposition, I bet you $10 that I would get little to no signatures and scorned by everyone else.
I suppose that if you had a couple of the super hot gals from "You look fabulous darling" thread standing there with you, you'd get plenty of male and a few female signatures.
As far as petitions go, I've seen a lot come through the store, they leave them at the counter for people to read and sign. The ones that oppose always gets more attention and signatures than ones that are for something. People feel better being against stuff than they do being for something. I suppose it gives them more satisfaction to try and stop whatever it is than to advance an idea or regulation.
Quote from: of a sort on October 28, 2013, 05:56:00 PM
As far as petitions go, I've seen a lot come through the store, they leave them at the counter for people to read and sign. The ones that oppose always gets more attention and signatures than ones that are for something. People feel better being against stuff than they do being for something. I suppose it gives them more satisfaction to try and stop whatever it is than to advance an idea or regulation.
Good observation, excellent point!
Quote from: Miss Bungle on October 28, 2013, 05:38:09 PM
You can call me an idiot all you want. If I had set up a table in opposition, I bet you $10 that I would get little to no signatures and scorned by everyone else.
I didn't go back and make notes of who wrote what. Let's leave transgender out of it. Say you're collecting signatures for something and someone pours water/burns/knocks your Little League applications all over the ground. You gonna be happy about that? Disagreeing with people is fine, laying hands on them isn't.
What do you stand to gain by assaulting the guy or wrecking his petition?
I don't have to think about it. I wouldn't even post in this thread, except the actions suggested by the so-called adults posting here are worse than anyone collecting signatures for any reason. Collecting signatures is legal. Assault isn't. Simple.
To me, the person who doesn't understand social graces and uses violence on a signature taker could well fall into the scumbags and cretins group.
This is latent transphobia. I really wouldn't take it personally. These people are just uneducateable! Kudos to you, though for holding your own!
It would annoy me too, to be honest, but don't let them win. They are seriously misinformed. Bigotry is not worthy of your being upset. Chin up :laugh:
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 28, 2013, 07:03:59 PM
To me, the person who doesn't understand social graces and uses violence on a signature taker could well fall into the scumbags and cretins group.
I have to agree here. If someone was asking for signatures on legalizing child slavery and someone else came and punched him, guess who's going to jail? And some people actually believe in the value of this system....amazing huh?
Temporarily locked to give people time to regroup.