Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transitioning => Facial feminization surgery => Topic started by: Gianna on October 27, 2013, 08:50:32 AM

Title: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Gianna on October 27, 2013, 08:50:32 AM
I am looking into getting FFS when I am older, but I saw that people basically have a whole wrapping around their head when they do. And they are also bruised up. Is it worth it to get FFS done?
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: LizMarie on November 12, 2013, 09:58:44 AM
The number of transwomen who "need" FFS is far lower than the number who get it. In terms of passing, the vast majority of transwomen can pass as-is. Yes, there are some that cannot but most can.

However, that level of "need" doesn't necessarily mean you look as good as you can. The truth is that almost all transwomen can benefit from some FFS procedures. A lot depends on how much testosterone poisoning your body has been exposed to and how much you've masculinized. But while the majority of us don't "need" it to pass, getting FFS will help and often helps build our own self-confidence as well, which is just as important.

The only transwomen who may not want to get FFS are those who go on t-blockers at a young age, before puberty, and can go through puberty as a female. In those cases (which are relatively new), those transwomen are going to develop as girls from the onset of puberty forward.

Finally, many transwomen who pass fine at a younger age without FFS, decide to get FFS later as they age, because loss of certain youthful fat deposits can expose more masculine bone structures.

TL;DR - you probably don't "need" FFS but at the same time, you probably would benefit from FFS at some point.
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Tristan on November 12, 2013, 10:25:17 AM
Omg yes it is worth it. look at it this way. even if you dont need it to pass. most women feel they want to change something about their body. you get a chance to do this and be all that more pretty. now if your not into that or want to make a statement or something like that about how looks shouldnt matter you can be that kinda woman, more power to you. But..... aot of us had things about ourselves we didnt like and had a chance to fix it and become more cute. and its so worth it for all the extra positive post op attention you get ;)
hey....im just sayin......
Title: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Noah on November 13, 2013, 04:45:40 AM
People always ask on here if it is "needed" in terms of passing - and while that's relevant obviously isn't it more important whether or not it is needed to ease dysphoria?

Anyway, FFS is totally worth it. And this is coming from someone who has their whole head wrapped up in bandages with a swollen bruised eye haha in the hospital had surgery yesterday.

Best thing I've done for myself since HRT
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Celia0428 on November 14, 2013, 04:06:42 PM
Quote from: PrincessDi on November 13, 2013, 04:45:40 AM
People always ask on here if it is "needed" in terms of passing - and while that's relevant obviously isn't it more important whether or not it is needed to ease dysphoria?
in my case both questions are equaly relevant but not everybody feels the same.
Title: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Noah on November 14, 2013, 05:13:55 PM
Yeah both are important.
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Gianna on November 14, 2013, 06:14:00 PM
How painful is the recovery?
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Tristan on November 14, 2013, 07:04:54 PM
Quote from: Gianna on November 14, 2013, 06:14:00 PM
How painful is the recovery?
thats a tough one. it totally depends on the person, the pain meds, whats done and the surgeon  ???
mine was a walk in the park but not everyone is so lucky. scratch that the first two days did feel weird cuz my nose was plugged.
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Damhnait on November 14, 2013, 07:46:59 PM
Unfortunatly the majority of us "need" FFS to truly pass. There is only a rare few that do not. I had FFS and it was the best thing I ever did. Right the nose plugged up thing was a real bother. The first few days was not fun...
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: delani25 on November 15, 2013, 07:52:24 PM
i think it definitely worth it although it's very pricey
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: JLT1 on November 15, 2013, 11:37:35 PM
Hi,

Look at my avitar...Do I pass?  Need?  Yep.  And I have seen worse come out very nice looking. 

Hugs,

Jen
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: abbyt89 on November 16, 2013, 12:21:19 AM
Quote from: Damhnait on November 14, 2013, 07:46:59 PM
Unfortunatly the majority of us "need" FFS to truly pass. There is only a rare few that do not. I had FFS and it was the best thing I ever did. Right the nose plugged up thing was a real bother. The first few days was not fun...

I agree with this for the most part. While most of the differences between a man and woman's face are pretty subtle, they can all add up to create what a brain will automatically identify as male. So it is a relatively rare bunch that has no distinct masculinities in their face and can pass 100% of the time with just HRT.

Like for me, I pass in general but it's only because I spend as much time as possible making myself look as least masculine as possible lol. So when I go out to the store or whatever I've never been misgendered. But when I'm just wearing pajamas and sitting on the couch with my hair up I don't really pass due to my super masculine forehead/orbital rims (that you can't really see from the front and with my hair down like in my profile pic.)

So while I don't "need" FFS to pass, I do need it if I want to pass under every or at least most circumstances.
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: JLT1 on November 16, 2013, 01:49:19 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on November 16, 2013, 12:21:19 AM
I agree with this for the most part. While most of the differences between a man and woman's face are pretty subtle, they can all add up to create what a brain will automatically identify as male. So it is a relatively rare bunch that has no distinct masculinities in their face and can pass 100% of the time with just HRT.

Like for me, I pass in general but it's only because I spend as much time as possible making myself look as least masculine as possible lol. So when I go out to the store or whatever I've never been misgendered. But when I'm just wearing pajamas and sitting on the couch with my hair up I don't really pass due to my super masculine forehead/orbital rims (that you can't really see from the front and with my hair down like in my profile pic.)

So while I don't "need" FFS to pass, I do need it if I want to pass under every or at least most circumstances.

Abbyt89

I still don't see it.  I just think your cute. 

However, sometimes FFS can make the person feel better about themselves.  And self confidence is very attractive.

Hugs to all!!!!

Jen
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Dahlia on November 16, 2013, 03:56:12 AM
Quote from: LizMarie on November 12, 2013, 09:58:44 AM


The only transwomen who may not want to get FFS are those who go on t-blockers at a young age, before puberty, and can go through puberty as a female. In those cases (which are relatively new), those transwomen are going to develop as girls from the onset of puberty forward.

Ehmmm....no, puberty blockers don't work wonders....sure, no adams apple, no beardgrowth or bodyhair, a high voice, yes...

But most adolescent MTF on puberty blockers grow unusually tall...because the human body needs sex hormones during adolescence to stop the bones from growing after a certain age.

The 19th century castrata singers also grew unusually tall after being castrated at even before adolescence. Also their voices didn't remain high pitched and clear as it was when they were very young boys.

Same thing goes for the Indian (from India) eunuchs too.

Furthermore are a wide, square jaw and chin, sloping forehead too are a matter of genetics.
Look closely at AIS women's faces, , from birth totally insensitive to testosterone, yet some have a masculine, sloping forehead, a big, square jaw and chin etc.
And some MTF too, after having been on puberty blockers and after that HRT.

QuoteFinally, many transwomen who pass fine at a younger age without FFS, decide to get FFS later as they age, because loss of certain youthful fat deposits can expose more masculine bone structures.

The same thing goes for genetic women too...they too masculinisise when they grow older. A receding hairline, the (male) pattern of heavy wrinkling etc makes them look masculine, while their nosetip and ears keep on growing as cartilage doesn't stop growing over the years.

I'd like to add I've seen excellent FFS results on MTF...but their bodyshape and especially the way they moved, walked, talked etc simply overruled the excellent FFS results and screamed 'MAN!!!!!' even from a distance, when walking with swinging shoulders (and a cup D swinging with it on their wide trunks...) and walking like a version of John Wayne wearing a skirt....no amount of FFS won't help there.

Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Tristan on November 16, 2013, 11:30:40 AM
Quote from: Dahlia on November 16, 2013, 03:56:12 AM
Ehmmm....no, puberty blockers don't work wonders....sure, no adams apple, no beardgrowth or bodyhair, a high voice, yes...

But most adolescent MTF on puberty blockers grow unusually tall...because the human body needs sex hormones during adolescence to stop the bones from growing after a certain age.

The 19th century castrata singers also grew unusually tall after being castrated at even before adolescence. Also their voices didn't remain high pitched and clear as it was when they were very young boys.

Same thing goes for the Indian (from India) eunuchs too.

Furthermore are a wide, square jaw and chin, sloping forehead too are a matter of genetics.
Look closely at AIS women's faces, , from birth totally insensitive to testosterone, yet some have a masculine, sloping forehead, a big, square jaw and chin etc.
And some MTF too, after having been on puberty blockers and after that HRT.

The same thing goes for genetic women too...they too masculinisise when they grow older. A receding hairline, the (male) pattern of heavy wrinkling etc makes them look masculine, while their nosetip and ears keep on growing as cartilage doesn't stop growing over the years.

I'd like to add I've seen excellent FFS results on MTF...but their bodyshape and especially the way they moved, walked, talked etc simply overruled the excellent FFS results and screamed 'MAN!!!!!' even from a distance, when walking with swinging shoulders (and a cup D swinging with it on their wide trunks...) and walking like a version of John Wayne wearing a skirt....no amount of FFS won't help there.
your right on with that tall statement. even starting young made me go from 5"2 (what the doctors thought my height was going to stay) all the way up to 5"10. no i must admit i am pleased cuz i hated being short. but i am a baby giraffe and loving it.
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Donna Elvira on November 16, 2013, 11:58:14 AM
For me, a 1000% worth it.  I went from very, very masculine and totally unpassable to close to 100% passable, even without make-up. I also made me look years younger (I'm 56)

It was expensive (about 27k€ in total) and a lot of hassle in terms of time (3 operations representing about 20 hours of surgery in total over 3 years: upper face, lower face and finally a face lift) and recovery, all the more so as my face swells and bruises very easily.

In spite of that, absolutely no regrets and today, especially after the final finishing touches I did last month, the facelift, I myself no longer see anything other than a woman looking at back at me in the mirror. The pleasure and confidence that comes with that makes it very easy to put the hassle behind me.
Hugs
Donna

P.S. In terms of pain, the recent facelift, while far from being very painful, was probably the most painful procedure I had as it involved considerable stretching of facial and neck muscles. The real FFS procedures, which included a very invasive and aggressive sliding genioplasty, were not painful at all. Just a lot of discomfort for about a week and swelling and bruising which took 3 to 4 weeks to mostly disappear.   
 
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Dahlia on November 17, 2013, 05:05:19 AM
Quote from: PrincessDi on November 13, 2013, 04:45:40 AM


Anyway, FFS is totally worth it. And this is coming from someone who has their whole head wrapped up in bandages with a swollen bruised eye haha in the hospital had surgery yesterday.

Best thing I've done for myself since HRT

Congrats! But how can you possibly know it's worth it when you're only a few days out of surgery?

It takes at least a year before the final results show...
Title: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Noah on November 17, 2013, 08:29:46 AM
I couldn't possibly know and yet I totally know! But ill update you a year from now don't worry :)
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: abbyt89 on November 17, 2013, 09:13:04 AM
Quote from: Dahlia on November 17, 2013, 05:05:19 AM
Congrats! But how can you possibly know it's worth it when you're only a few days out of surgery?

It takes at least a year before the final results show...

For things like forehead the swelling is usually gone within a week or so. Nose is typically a month or two from what I read, and it's the jaw/chin work that can take several months/up to a year to see final
results.
Title: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Noah on November 17, 2013, 09:46:57 AM
Yea my swelling almost all fine 5 days post OP. it's amazing!
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Northern Jane on November 17, 2013, 10:13:24 AM
I agree with the comment that it depends on the degree of masculinization - add to that your genetic background.

I was 17 when I started HRT (in the days before blockers) and am 64 now. Most of my life I have been called "cute" (by guys) and in more recent years everything from "cute" to "extremely beautiful". (Maybe men's eyesight is failing LOL!) I wouldn't do anything to my face even if somebody paid me!
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: abbyt89 on November 17, 2013, 10:58:07 AM
Quote from: PrincessDi on November 17, 2013, 09:46:57 AM
Yea my swelling almost all fine 5 days post OP. it's amazing!

Did you have a hairline incision or a coronal incision? Just curious what the scar is like at this point if it was a hairline incision.
Title: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Noah on November 17, 2013, 11:08:35 AM
Hairline. I got a scalp advancement and hairline recontouring, too.

At this point the stitches are still in it so it looks intense. But it's healing very well. Spiegel said that hair will grow through the incision eventually.
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Jenna Marie on November 17, 2013, 12:47:44 PM
I totally support anyone doing anything they need to be happy, and especially to banish dysphoria.

But I have trouble believing the majority of trans women need FFS. Maybe I just have an exceptionally fortunate group of friends? Out of 30 or so, only one is still being misgendered more than a year after starting HRT... and she hasn't changed her voice at all, and only gets "sir" after she speaks. I haven't had a problem since about six months after HRT.
Title: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Noah on November 17, 2013, 01:18:12 PM
I agree w you. I think most of us can pass way more than many of us think.
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Tristan on November 17, 2013, 03:22:07 PM
Quote from: Jenna Marie on November 17, 2013, 12:47:44 PM
I totally support anyone doing anything they need to be happy, and especially to banish dysphoria.

But I have trouble believing the majority of trans women need FFS. Maybe I just have an exceptionally fortunate group of friends? Out of 30 or so, only one is still being misgendered more than a year after starting HRT... and she hasn't changed her voice at all, and only gets "sir" after she speaks. I haven't had a problem since about six months after HRT.
your right about the dyshoeria being gone. after everything is over and all said n done. its just melts away like a bad memory
Title: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Noah on November 17, 2013, 03:34:54 PM
It's only been 5 days and I already feel so separate from my old self. Like that forehead haunted me for so long and I actually was able to let it go...FFS is the best thing EVER
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Tristan on November 17, 2013, 03:57:20 PM
FFS really is. its so nice to be able to look into the mirror and be happy. it makes the whole FFS recovery worth it  ;D
Title: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Noah on November 17, 2013, 04:06:05 PM
:)
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: abbyt89 on November 17, 2013, 04:14:59 PM
Ahhh you guys are making me so excited for my FFS! It's just 4 weeks away :D.
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Tristan on November 17, 2013, 04:18:13 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on November 17, 2013, 04:14:59 PM
Ahhh you guys are making me so excited for my FFS! It's just 4 weeks away :D.
Abby in all honesty you really should be excited. its so worth it. for any girl trans or not. tweeking some things about yourself if you feel the need adds to extra cuteness and thats always lovely  :P
Title: Re: FFS - Is it worth it?
Post by: Gianna on November 22, 2013, 06:07:44 PM
Quote from: Tristan on November 17, 2013, 04:18:13 PM
Abby in all honesty you really should be excited. its so worth it. for any girl trans or not. tweeking some things about yourself if you feel the need adds to extra cuteness and thats always lovely  :P
Wow, I thought it wasn't worth it AT all! I was SO wrong! Thank you ladies!