Hey guys,
I know I've been banging on about this before in an older thread... I'm just at a loose end now and I either need to just let it go or do something about it. I would really appreciate some perspective on this:
I had top surgery in August 2012. Since then I have had two revisions - February 2013 and again in August 2013. The revisions were done because I felt it wasn't flat enough, that there was still tissue left behind and looked like I still had moobs.
Now that the recent revision has healed I can't stop thinking that it's STILL not right. I would really appreciate if you would take the time to let me know either:
1. It's fine / good enough / best I could get for my build
2. Will look better if I lose weight / workout
3. Maybe time to see another surgeon
Here are the pics:
After the original surgery healed:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu387%2Fcowboyryan1985%2FED7A97CF-BE1C-422D-9D1A-0B1F82E5C1F7-5399-0000029E26502508_zps2f065c40.jpg&hash=a725997a21f44e88c44f63d50876d82900318ce8) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/cowboyryan1985/media/ED7A97CF-BE1C-422D-9D1A-0B1F82E5C1F7-5399-0000029E26502508_zps2f065c40.jpg.html)
After the first revision:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu387%2Fcowboyryan1985%2F010BF339-E317-4F16-A5E6-78C79B2B83A9-5399-0000029DEFC7DDF7_zpse5bb3b96.jpg&hash=2c7bb46eea1e127c333f5a5183cca7ea3f6986c5) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/cowboyryan1985/media/010BF339-E317-4F16-A5E6-78C79B2B83A9-5399-0000029DEFC7DDF7_zpse5bb3b96.jpg.html)
Following the second revision (How it looks today):
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu387%2Fcowboyryan1985%2FCCDC60D1-ECA5-4791-8DA7-891192FBB23F-5399-0000029D9876DC9E_zps4d57cf3b.jpg&hash=28bfd1027feff105b7ae2843905fe5f220897aba) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/cowboyryan1985/media/CCDC60D1-ECA5-4791-8DA7-891192FBB23F-5399-0000029D9876DC9E_zps4d57cf3b.jpg.html)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhttp%3A%2F%255BURL%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1065.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fcowboyryan1985%2Fmedia%2FFB8398AC-F3BD-4357-8E85-73D9DB1BFCC5-5399-0000029D7AFE9B0A_zpsfcd7d4d9.jpg.&hash=a263b5b27b63a6d1694624fc639260cd7d1a9016) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/cowboyryan1985/media/5102EA44-1297-4B75-B67B-EA639F79AC7C-5399-0000029D8AA091B3_zps6b370cb4.jpg.html)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu387%2Fcowboyryan1985%2FFB8398AC-F3BD-4357-8E85-73D9DB1BFCC5-5399-0000029D7AFE9B0A_zpsfcd7d4d9.jpg&hash=8d40cac670edc087d9fd09e9938b8c591c3b4884) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/cowboyryan1985/media/FB8398AC-F3BD-4357-8E85-73D9DB1BFCC5-5399-0000029D7AFE9B0A_zpsfcd7d4d9.jpg.html)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1065.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu387%2Fcowboyryan1985%2F5102EA44-1297-4B75-B67B-EA639F79AC7C-5399-0000029D8AA091B3_zps6b370cb4.jpg&hash=94fc42ddc46c4387e0fe0fe7a06e199ebff2cabd) (http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/cowboyryan1985/media/5102EA44-1297-4B75-B67B-EA639F79AC7C-5399-0000029D8AA091B3_zps6b370cb4.jpg.html)
Thank you very much for your time and feedback.
As an MTF who has spent a lot of time in locker rooms, the shape/build of your chest looks completely unremarkable to me... in other words, I wouldn't have looked twice in the showers in high-school basketball or gym. Ok, I would have, but the second look would have been very sly and *that* would have come from me being bi and you being a really awesome looking hunk of a man. :)
On very close examination, using my super-secret trans powers, I *think* I can see what you are complaining about, which is the slight indentation visible above your pecs... all I can suggest for this is upper body workouts. It will take some time, but T and exercise does seem to add a lot of muscle mass between the shoulders and the pecs. I think once that happens you will be *delighted* with your chest.
*hug*
*Edited for MTF/FTM dyslexia. Sorry! :P
I think the most recent results look good and I would be pleased with them. If you built up your pecs you might be more satisfied. If you decide you want another revision, perhaps try another surgeon.
I think it looks good now. I admit ,I would not have been happy with your original result at all.
Over all i say that it seems to be due to weight.I seen one person on YT that was so obese,i was suprised that he even got anyone to do the surgery and then he complained that his results were not tight,thin and wondered why the weight hung off his back and body.(not saying your being that way) but for someone that is your size,you got awesome results and all that i can tell needs done is some weight loss and muscle building.You would be amazed how things will look then.I have also seen some perfectly matched weight people with very BAD results and i mean by over all surgery results.Add some scar cream to help with those and your good to go :D
Your chest looks great now! Initially I would have been dissapointed as well, but after the first revision it looked good and after the second you look great. Try to keep in mind that doctors aren't miracle workers and they can only do so much for a person--the rest is up to you. Some time in the gym would probably do you a world of good I think, since lowering your body fat and gaining muscle would tighten up your chest.
I don't think you're going to get any better than what you have now. You needed revisions but now that's right for a guy your size. If you want to tighten it up, that's all about weight loss and muscle building now.
The only thing that strikes me in the last set of pictures is the shape of the incision, but the good thing is that those scars will fade! I imagine you'll feel much better about things as the scars fade.
Can I ask which surgeon you went to?
Keep in mind that big guys usually have man boobs. You don't after those revisions. Plus that beard and belly hair make it so no one will misgender you.
Thank you all, very much for the feedback. Your comments have definitely helped to put this into perspective for me. Looks like it's time to be grateful, and maybe start eating a bit better!
Femboy - it was Dr Berry in London.
If you do some weight training, it'll build up your pecs and as a bonus you'll lose weight and your chest won't look like "moobs," although really your chest is fine.
Hi. Sorry to drag this one up AGAIN.
It still plays on my mind to the point of obsession so it is good to get some objective feedback from you guys.
I recently visited by original surgeon (Dr. Berry) to complain that I wasn't as flat as I had hoped, and he basically said he did the best he could and there is no more he could do, and suggested maybe the problem is psychological.
So for a second opinion, I sent photos of my chest to Dr. Yelland (much more well know than Dr. Berry with proven results). He reported back that he did think he could improve it - by starting over, so full blown operation again for the full sum of £6,000.
On the one hand, I'm really not keen on the idea of the operation and recovery all over again (and this will be FOURTH time under the knife for my poor chest). Not to mention the money.
But on the other hand, it has almost been 2 years past my original surgery date, after which I thought I would be so much happier - and yet am still constantly pulling at t-shirts and criticising my chest in the mirror on an almost hourly basis.
Objective opinions, please?
thank you
Quote from: lost.cowboy on May 22, 2014, 04:06:18 AM
Hi. Sorry to drag this one up AGAIN.
It still plays on my mind to the point of obsession so it is good to get some objective feedback from you guys.
I recently visited by original surgeon (Dr. Berry) to complain that I wasn't as flat as I had hoped, and he basically said he did the best he could and there is no more he could do, and suggested maybe the problem is psychological.
So for a second opinion, I sent photos of my chest to Dr. Yelland (much more well know than Dr. Berry with proven results). He reported back that he did think he could improve it - by starting over, so full blown operation again for the full sum of £6,000.
On the one hand, I'm really not keen on the idea of the operation and recovery all over again (and this will be FOURTH time under the knife for my poor chest). Not to mention the money.
But on the other hand, it has almost been 2 years past my original surgery date, after which I thought I would be so much happier - and yet am still constantly pulling at t-shirts and criticising my chest in the mirror on an almost hourly basis.
Objective opinions, please?
thank you
Mate, if you're unhappy with your chest (which it sounds like you obviously are), then you need to do something about it.
If you want to give therapy a go - then that's okay. I personally think that if someone is saying they can improve your chest, it's worth a go - even if it means more money.
In the end, it's really about how much your happiness is worth and making boundaries for yourself. If this operation means that your financial or health boundaries will be crossed, then you need to perhaps look at other options. If not, then go for it.
I think Kreuzfidel has spot on advice here.
lost.cowboy, your latest photos look pretty good to me. If it were me, I'd spend some time in the gym and work on changing my diet for a few months before going under the knife again. For one thing, doing those things will improve your overall health dramatically, and will probably improve the way you feel. For another, there are always risks to surgery -- a person can die on the operating table. The risks from working out and changing your diet are pretty small.
£6,000 would buy you a lot of gym time, and a personal trainer to go with it, and the results you get will go way beyond what you'll get with more surgery: at best, a "quick fix" for your moobs.
I agree that it's unrealistic to expect a lot better due to your size. I also agree that the cost of the revision would buy you a lot of gym, personal trainer time. If you lost weight and built muscle, I think you might be quite happy with your results. I don't mean to be brutal because you just have moobs that someone your size would likely have.
Though I have noticed that a lot of guys will fixate on their chests. Perhaps it's quite understandable given... But I think it's really more dysphoria. That said, I know someone who had a revision and is over the moon about it. But then he hasn't had two other revisions.
--Jay
I'm chiming in with the gym suggestion. Give it 6 months, work the hell out of your chest and pecs and zero in as much of muscle building as you can in that area because to me it looks great, you just need some muscle built up to make it pop like a pec.
If in 6 months of you trying and you're still not happy, then I'd go ahead for the revision. But in my honest opinion your chest looks great as is right now.
I think your chest looks...well perfect isn't the term but it actually looks completely normal to me and I spend a lot of time looking at- ahem. I'd really go for working the hell out of your chest, give you some nice pecs and probably improve posture.
One thing that I think would be an issue for me personally with the photos the OP has provided is the nipple placement. They don't look high enough to me and that, paired with the incision lines being in the original shadows of the breasts, makes it look a little off from the front view IMHO.
So I think that a revision would be something to consider if only for the nipple placement - and I also agree that a bit of weight loss/gym time wouldn't hurt.
Thanks, everyone for taking the time to comment.
Kreuzfidel - I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I couldn't work out why it looked so weird from the front, and now I totally see it; the low nipples plus curved lines add to the impression of saggy boobs.
Can I just say, to anyone who has not yet had the surgery - choose your surgeon wisely, and be patient! I was so desperate to get it done that I chose simply based on the surgeon who had the first available theatre slot (which, in hindsight should have spoken for itself really), even though I had not seen evidence of his results.
2 years on, oh how I wish I'd waited those 3 extra months for Dr. Yelland now!
The one you have now looks a lot better then ur other photos. Why not take step by step and take it slow by getting topples and get use to your chest? Maybe a talk to someone might help.
At first I was paranoid that my chest wasn't good enough or flat enough. But I soon gotten use to it and keep telling my self that it's was falter then before. Then I grew to love it.
Two years is a long time if you were unhappy about it. But what ever you feel right you want to do, but if u wanted an other revisions I think your better off with a different surgeon.
I think your chest looks fine now. I'm with the others that say to work on those pecs, both upper and lower, and build up some good muscle. Once you have some really meaty and well defined pecs, you will also have a better presentation to a surgeon if it still seems off to you.
Also, try putting concealer on those scars so you can't see the curvy lines, and take another picture - I think the scars definitely give an optical illusion of breasts. And if that's all it is - optical illusion - put on concealer every day if it helps :) Seriously, though, work out and get some good pecs going on before you see another surgeon. Pecs + reduced scar visibility in 6 months or so might make all the difference!
Quote from: Jack_M on October 31, 2013, 12:48:26 AM
I don't think you're going to get any better than what you have now. You needed revisions but now that's right for a guy your size. If you want to tighten it up, that's all about weight loss and muscle building now.
Exactly right.
Jen
I was going to show you some pictures of my chest for comparison, but my incisions look like ziploc slits that someone opened and emptied. Not typical. :D
I'm going to echo a lot of the earlier comment: You look fine / unremarkable, as far as having a "passable" male chest goes. Sure, you might find the appearance a bit more aesthetically pleasing if you worked out a bit, it certainly couldn't hurt, but I don't really think it's necessary.
Hell, in my case, I lost both nipples cos the surgeon (Dr Wilson in Detroit) told me I could "shower as normal" the very next day with skin grafts, the revision that I had to literally scream and make legal threats to get, looks only-OK on one side (I've only known one ostensibly cisgender man with nipples that huge) and the other side looks very unusual, almost like an inverted nipple, but not (if that makes sense)1, and somehow whatever Mediterranean-origin throwback genes I have from my Black Irish father has given me massive hypertrophic scarring in the centre of my chest --but nobody seems to remark on it when I'm shirtless in public. If nobody's been taken aback by my own nonsense, nobody's going to think *your* chest looks at all unusual.
We're all too often our own worst critics, and yeah, you might just be looking at the scars a bit much. The scars always look better after at least a year. If you still think there's room for improvement, try working out, cos short of silicone pec implants, I doubt there's anything else surgery could do for you. (And don't seriously consider pec implants, I've never seen anyone get those and *not* look like a muffin pan, after.)
1: I was pretty much locked in to going with that particular surgeon, cos I'm on Medicare, and Disability, and he's pretty much the only one in my state who'll take Medicare, and obviously I can't afford to take an out-of-state trip for surgery.
the second revision looks great, i can see why wouldn't like the first though, like everyone else said try the gym first and see if that helps