*Possible trigger warning*
Today I was at a course and the discussion went onto the Equality Act and gender identity and gender reassignment. One of my class mates started saying the world is full of confused people and you're either male or female, if you're born biologically male then you're a man, and if you're born biologically female then you're a woman. Anyone who says they're not is crazy. I sat in silence and let other class mates talk about it and some of their beliefs became very clear. I felt isolated and scared. I stepped in and explained people don't always identity with the gender they were assigned at birth and I challenged her beliefs that a penis makes you a man and a vagina makes you a woman. I asked what if a man had to have his penis removed or if a woman was born without a womb, does that make them any less of a man or woman? She told me those things were impossible and you're either a man or a woman. The teacher then stopped the discussion,
Later on she called me a woman so I said I'm actually a man. She looked uncomfortable and said you're very young then. I think her and everyone else now know that I'm transgender. I feel like I've let you all down though. I feel like I should have done more to protect and defend the trans community but I didn't. I feel like a coward. I'm sorry that I didn't do more.
Please don't feel that way. You don't have a responsibility to the trans community, you have a responsibility to yourself and doing what's in your best interest. Sometimes, that best interest may coincide with the community's interest, sometimes not. Its difficult to dispel other people's beliefs about gender, especially when you may not be prepared for it or when you have to remain in that situation with those people for some time in the future.
What she said. You got caught in a very tricky situation, and it sounds like you did very well. I'll thank you, as a matter of fact, you stood up for us, for yourself, and for your beliefs. You have experience in how to deal with a situation like this now, stick it in your toolbelt, young man. Hugs, Devlyn
You did not let the community down. You presented and alternate thought into a group that may not have had to think beyond themselves in the past. Educating while being subjected to bigotry is very difficult and you did a great job!
You did more than I would have had the courage to do in a classroom of people I have to see every day. Don't feel bad, I'd say what you did do was very brave. Thanks for fighting for those of us who lack the courage to do so!
You did not let anyone down baby. I think now that they know about you I see people hiding with this issue may start to approach you for more info. You really think no one else in the class may feel like us? Food for thought! You might just have given someone the courage AND a contact person to ask questions. Here is a BIG HUG!! :)
On the contrary, you helped educate a bunch of people. Education is a process, not an event. I liken it to filling a cup with a water dropper. It's discouraging, but unless you put the drops there, it will never be filled up.
Quote from: Joe. on October 31, 2013, 06:28:46 PM
*Possible trigger warning*
if you're born biologically male then you're a man, and if you're born biologically female then you're a woman.
In a psychology 101 class I got an 'A' in (engineering major so not my area), we watched a video of a man who was injured in a hockey game, and as a consequence supposedly decided he wanted to be a woman. We learned that his desire to be a woman was a mental illness caused by trauma to his head from playing hockey, and the man was later "cured", and realized he was not a woman. :embarrassed:
Quote from: genderhell on October 31, 2013, 08:27:41 PM
In a psychology 101 class I got an 'A' in (engineering major so not my area), we watched a video of a man who was injured in a hockey game, and as a consequence supposedly decided he wanted to be a woman. We learned that his desire to be a woman was a mental illness caused by trauma to his head from playing hockey, and the man was later "cured", and realized he was not a woman. :embarrassed:
Not everyone who has a passing thought that they might be gender incongruent is transgendered. But those who have these perceptions long term, might very well have gender dysphoria.
Quote from: Joe. on October 31, 2013, 06:28:46 PM
*Possible trigger warning*
Today I was at a course and the discussion went onto the Equality Act and gender identity and gender reassignment. One of my class mates started saying the world is full of confused people and you're either male or female, if you're born biologically male then you're a man, and if you're born biologically female then you're a woman. Anyone who says they're not is crazy. I sat in silence and let other class mates talk about it and some of their beliefs became very clear. I felt isolated and scared. I stepped in and explained people don't always identity with the gender they were assigned at birth and I challenged her beliefs that a penis makes you a man and a vagina makes you a woman. I asked what if a man had to have his penis removed or if a woman was born without a womb, does that make them any less of a man or woman? She told me those things were impossible and you're either a man or a woman. The teacher then stopped the discussion,
Later on she called me a woman so I said I'm actually a man. She looked uncomfortable and said you're very young then. I think her and everyone else now know that I'm transgender. I feel like I've let you all down though. I feel like I should have done more to protect and defend the trans community but I didn't. I feel like a coward. I'm sorry that I didn't do more.
Don't be so hard on yourself. You didn't do anything wrong. In fact you spoke up and did the best you could. If anything, you were brave and made us proud. While it's disappointing that you can't change the minds of those who are unwilling to entertain a different perspective, that's not your fault. To be honest, I don't know how I would have reacted in that situation. I'd probably be quiet and keep to myself.
QuoteI sat in silence and let other class mates talk about it and some of their beliefs became very clear. I felt isolated and scared. I stepped in and explained people don't always identity with the gender they were assigned at birth and I challenged her beliefs that a penis makes you a man and a vagina makes you a woman. I asked what if a man had to have his penis removed or if a woman was born without a womb, does that make them any less of a man or woman? She told me those things were impossible and you're either a man or a woman.
See the part in red? You were scared, and felt alone.
The next part, after the red (in black), tells me that you overcame your fears, and spoke up. There's a saying, it goes something like,
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz368%2Fhazel_eyes1911%2Fdemotivationalspeakevenifyourvoiceshakes_zps013d1833.jpg&hash=0bc7fa2132886fefb4a25691a66e3f5f0b0acc62)
You did this. You did GREAT! Now, like Devlyn said, you have experience, and next time it'll be a bit easier--not easy, but
easier.*high five!*
:)
The next part (in blue) is silly. Men can't have their penis removed? Tell that to John Wayne Bobbit!!
And women can't be born without a uterus? Someone needs to learn more about such things, because they *do* happen.
You stood up. That was awesome, Joe. You did all you could possibly do, you presented a differing point of view. It's just not possible to change everyone's minds but you probably made a few rethink their own positions. You did great. I'm proud of you. :icon_hug:
love,
-maggie
Joe,
After getting to know you I've noticed the following:
You're not the kind of person to get into stand up arguments with people at the sake of everything and trying to prove you're right. You're someone who watches, who waits to see what people think, how they think. You're someone who waits for the right time and gently says what he feels. Not forcefully, not abrasively... but honestly, quietly, with the integrity of someone who knows what he's talking about because he's experiencing it. Someone with the weight of a lifetime's soul-searching behind his words.
You're someone who makes their point with a persistent whisper, not an insistent shout. And you know what? Sometimes that's the best way.
You didn't let anyone down. You felt vulnerable but you didn't let that rule you. You felt isolated but you didn't bow to it. You said what you had to say. You explained your position and how you saw things. It's not your job to make what you said sink in for people. They have to do that themselves.
*hugs*
There are many different types of people in this world. I have had the fortune and misfortune to meet a few of them.
There are the cruel bigot who cannot think beyond blind hatred. The uneducated who follow belief without ever testing them, the educated fool.
And the brave.
Bravery is an odd thing, there is instant bravery - you stand in front of mob, you help your mates under fire - and the hardest one: You see what is wrong and stand for right.
You are the people who change the world.
Inch by inch.
I'm very proud of having you as a brother.
It is an honour to know you.
My Love my young Brother.
Cindy
Quote from: Joe. on October 31, 2013, 06:28:46 PM
*Possible trigger warning*
Today I was at a course and the discussion went onto the Equality Act and gender identity and gender reassignment. One of my class mates started saying the world is full of confused people and you're either male or female, if you're born biologically male then you're a man, and if you're born biologically female then you're a woman. Anyone who says they're not is crazy. I sat in silence and let other class mates talk about it and some of their beliefs became very clear. I felt isolated and scared. I stepped in and explained people don't always identity with the gender they were assigned at birth and I challenged her beliefs that a penis makes you a man and a vagina makes you a woman. I asked what if a man had to have his penis removed or if a woman was born without a womb, does that make them any less of a man or woman? She told me those things were impossible and you're either a man or a woman. The teacher then stopped the discussion,
Later on she called me a woman so I said I'm actually a man. She looked uncomfortable and said you're very young then. I think her and everyone else now know that I'm transgender. I feel like I've let you all down though. I feel like I should have done more to protect and defend the trans community but I didn't. I feel like a coward. I'm sorry that I didn't do more.
First i want to say that,with plenty of study,people will find that being born without reproductive organs *and some with both-tho very rare* it DOES happen.Most people who are *genes,dna* addicts,are the ones that are the hardest to get through to because they feel that the mind and what cant be seen,is invalid or void.These are the type of people that require *proof* of anything underlining and they most of the time will refuse any type of *feeling* attached to transition.For example of what i mean is-if one was on the verge of suicide,they would be the type to slap you and say exactly what the person doesnt WANT to hear.
But a good way to challenge these type of thinkers is to put them in that position with a visional outlook or example.When you talk to someone like that and they use *body parts* as a means to back their claims,then you need to use that to your advantage.Like ask something like *if you were to lose both of your breasts to cancer,could you say with full confidence that you were still a *woman*?* and if they say yes,then this is when you start asking why they feel that way,if there is MORE to gender then their *body*.It takes a different kind of understanding and willing to use what people project in order to get the point across that its NOT just between the legs or the body its self.
That also being said,i dont feel how you could have let anyone down.I know you didnt let me down and clearly many have said the same thing.Its true that we all dont deal with this kind of thing daily and most of all face to face and its also true that it challenges us and our own knowledge,self and over all way we see our selves when it comes to being Trans* but dont put un-needed pressure on yourself,most of all for no reason.We do all fight as a whole but we also have our own personal battles that we fight and learn from.So i think you should see it as a personal battle that has taught you,and good things at that.We have enough pressure on our shoulders *on a personal level*.Its good that you stepped in and even though it made you feel that way,you felt the need to step in and that does say alot about courage and stength and your character.Taking that step alone should be a huge boost to your self worth.None the less,no more worries :)
Well done. :)
You didn't let anyone down. In fact, you gave us all reason to be enormously proud of you.
I know only too well how difficult it is to be stuck in a roomful of bigots spouting their hateful misconceptions. Heck, I grew up in a country of bigots, so I know an uphill battle when I see one. Being that lone dissenting voice takes a great deal of courage. You found that courage, and knowing you I'm willing to bet you said your piece as calmly as possible (considering how hurt & frightened you must've been feeling). There are plenty of people who are decades older than you that don't have enough courage to do what you did.
So thank you for standing up for all of us and for doing the best you could. Remember that 25-year-old I keep mentioning? Well, I'm willing to bet he'd like to buy you a pint for what you said yesterday. ;)
you really hadnt let anyone down and should not feel guilty, but I feel sorry for you being in the situation.
I tried myself in school class or course lessons where the whole transgender topic came up and people been putting up with alot of ignorance. Its really horrible.
You can't all be me :)
Now me, I'd have waded into the discussion and I'd be worthy of the Doctor :)
I'm not afraid of the TG phobic in society, they're afraid of me :)
I think you did plenty though just doing that small bit.
Be proud of yourself.
As everyone stated above me, you should not feel ashamed but proud. Even though you feel you did not do much, you still stood up to your whole class and said your opinion. And that person is wrong, I know a woman that was born without a uterus and she did not find out till she was about seventeen. It apparently just never developed when she was in her mothers womb. I even know of a guy that was actually rather close on having his penis removed due to complications, and so forth. It happens, on more occasions then many believe. He is not a less of a man because of it, and she is not any less of a woman because she doesn't have a uterus.
Joe, what you did was amazing. Be proud :)
No one can blame you for not doing more. Given the hostile environment, I would imagine that most trans people would not feel up to taking a stand for the community. It's just a part of being trans and why so many people decide to go stealth.
But if you do feel like you should do a better job if another opportunity arose, then the first step is educating yourself so that you can make better arguments. Most people who think that the concept of a man born with deformed or nonexistent genitals is "impossible" are blinded by religion. In other words, they think that God only creates humans who are unambiguously male or female. But Jesus himself recognized the existence of men who were born with deformed/nonexistent genitals. In Matthew 19:12, he says, "For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it."
There is a long list of recognized congenital conditions in which the bodies either have anomalous internal sex organs or ambiguous external genitalia. These are commonly known as "intersex" conditions. Here's a good starting point for research: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex#Conditions_and_scope
FYI the condition in which a female is born without a uterus or vagina is Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser syndrome.
When you have the chance to talk about this stuff, be sure to tell your listener(s) to check out the Accord Alliance (http://www.accordalliance.org/) and the Intersex Society of North America (http://www.isna.org/). And while you're at it, mention Middlesex, the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel by Jeffrey Eugenides, which has been featured in Oprah's book club. The protagonist is a person whose specific intersex condition, 5-alpha-reductase deficiency (which is a real-life condition), plays a major part in the story. Make them feel stupid for being ignorant of such a significant element of recent popular culture ;)
Thank you all for your warm messages. It means the world to me that you're not disappointed. When it was happening all I could think about was my family here. They weren't just offending me, they were offending everyone here and that wasn't ok. People can say stuff about me, but the minute they say something that is offensive about any of my family that's when it bothers me. I couldn't sit back and say nothing. You are all my family here and no matter where you fit under the transgender umbrella, you're family to me.
I think that what worried me was because I didn't have as much knowledge as I thought I did. I mean, I told them what transgender was and the difference between sexual orientation and gender and I tried to challenge her beliefs on the biological man and woman thing from the perspective of a trans person (they don't know I'm trans myself) but I found myself lacking the evidence and confidence to back my points because of my lack of knowledge. However, this can be a good thing because it's made me realise that I need to look more into the biological aspect so that I can back up my arguments more efficiently. I tried my best in the situation, but it wasn't quite good enough. On reflection it's been a negative situation but it's given me a positive learning experience about myself as a person and I can now learn more about the parts I'm not so knowledgeable about.
Also, since I spoke out and argued my point, my teacher came in today and said that the discussion yesterday made her realise that she wasn't that well educated about transgender issues and gender reassignment. She told us she spent the entire evening last night gaining more knowledge and researching about transgender and speaking to a friend about it. So even though I may not of been able to change the opinion of the original lady, I managed to raise awareness and educate the teacher without even realising it.
Quote from: Joe. on November 01, 2013, 07:23:56 PM
Also, since I spoke out and argued my point, my teacher came in today and said that the discussion yesterday made her realise that she wasn't that well educated about transgender issues and gender reassignment. She told us she spent the entire evening last night gaining more knowledge and researching about transgender and speaking to a friend about it. So even though I may not of been able to change the opinion of the original lady, I managed to raise awareness and educate the teacher without even realising it.
Wow, that is so cool. You were the stimulus of change. Just like Sephirah said, the concept was presented without the anger, kudos!