I found this photo being shown around by the *Im Transgender* group on facebook and i wanted to place it here for everyone to share their opinions on it and to give their perception on their transition.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=481027285345519&set=a.326050354176547.76486.326042684177314&type=1&theater
You will need facebook to see this,shouldnt be hard if your auto logged in.Im sure some have already seen it and for those who do not have a facebook i will post what its about below.
Its a picture of ariel from the little mermaid with her on shore and sowing her legs together and it says below
*After changing to fit into society,you are eventually going to want your old self back sooner or later*
Here was a comment i posted on this *picture* with my personal views and perceptions of my transition
*Though many see the physical body resulting in that box we are placed in,perception is what is most important to OUR daily lives.If anothers perception is what drives us,then the *change* was pointless to start with and gives a better understanding to ones crushed mental and emotional state.So to comment on this very photo,to say that *we as Trans people,only Transition to fit into society and NOT who we *really are*,then we will regret it in the end* this is false on over half of the Trans population because we are FAR from trying to *fit into society* and those who do such a thing,will have the highest regrets.Why would anyone want to *change* to fit into a society that wants nothing to do with them? and why would anyone *want* to be attacked,beaten and killed for said change? Its MUCH deeper then that and i find this photo downplaying the full transition process.And anyone who molds to society to start with,deserves those regrets.Me? I have NONE and am not changing to fit into society but fit into WHO I AM.*
What is your opinion on this and according to its image and idealism,what do you say about why you transitioned,was to fit in or was it because of who you are?
Hi little brother! I am definitely NOT changing to fit into society. I feel my body has been wrong my whole life and I want it to be "corrected" to fit who I really am and NEED to be. I think we both agree on this one whole heartedly. I am proud to be your sister in this family. Society is not worthy of me doing anything more than I already did for them as a Paramedic. If they can't live with me I CAN live without them. We have a freedom they will never understand or deserve. We are the truly brave one's in this world. Love ya! :)
*After changing to fit into society,you are eventually going to want your old self back sooner or later*
I kinda read it in a diffrent way
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for us transgender we often get a presure from the outside word. if you identify as a guy you sure will get less crap if you look like a guy, wear boyish clothing act boyish, having T or a surgery, than if not.
do we do that for ourself or for the sociaty to accept us? I think it a mix of both, and I think somethimes we forget we are good enough as ourself regardless of people telling us we arnt masuline/femenine, man/ or woman enough, or even trans enough.
I kinda get the felling is about the presure, from being trans to go into the hetronormative world you may get to a point where you push yourself abit too much to be accepted and I think its more what its about.
I guess the picture can be read in many diffrent ways.
I think I read it so because I see the mermaid as a trans symbol while her becoming so to speak "a real human girl" is something she kinda has to do to get the prince she want.
It is a misleading picture. I did not take it as Ariel. I saw it as a human wanting to be a mermaid but that she can't be one and will want to return to human. I now can see it the way some of you seem to.
It is false I think. I am not who I used to appear to be. I didn't worry about that so much as not having a body that fit with the image I had of myself. That is what was and is so wrong. The social perception of me as male is important, but secondary.
Realizing I had to transition was probably the first thing I did where I put what I wanted over what I thought people or society would think of me for it.
I want people to see me the way I see myself - yes, very much so. But, the friction and social incongruity of how I see myself and how people relate to me when they read me as female is secondary.
This is something I did not realize until I actually started T. Before, I thought passing and being seen as male was just as important. But once I felt the centered feeling of being on the right hormone finally, I knew it was a medication I would take even if I could never pass as anything but transgender in society - I would take it even if I never fit in. I would take that over being seen as female in any situation.
I found the picture disturbing. So many things wrong with it.The imagery implied the transgender experience to be loneliness and self injury. It paints Transgender People as desperate to fit in.
The Irony is that if we have any desperation it lies in our desperation to fit into our selves and to stop expending energy on trying to fit into society. and that it not something we go through alone, we have the support of many around us, people that would never want us to conform. they want only for us to excel.
When I gave up on everything that was holding me back, I realized all experiences with fear I had had would serve a purpose while dealing with the fears of how fast I began to move forward. It is a very thin line between fear and exhilaration.
Before transition, I fit into society just fine.
I just fit into it as a man, which never felt right.
I am changing to fit into my self. I've always been more a part of female society... even as a man. What I might want back is my family... I hope I can recover from that.
I see no problem with social binaries... as long as the non-binaries are accepted too. One comment mentioned something about using "woman" as a convenience, but they'll never be a woman *because* they're transgender. I look at that differently... I will be a trans woman, which is a specific group of women. I don't see the problem with that, either...
Really, though... I don't like how we have to be put into these groups as if everyone in the group shares the same traits. There's a spectrum and if you fall far enough onto one side, you're female... if you're somewhere in the middle you're androgyn... and it's really up to you to decide where you fall. Plenty of FAAB women are close to androgyn without trying . . . and that's more than OK...
Be who you are.
(But no... I certainly hope I won't want to change back -- and neither did Ariel! There's a reason she's my favorite princess).
Original mermaid died, turned to sea foam. I am not much of a fan of remaking so many fairy tales and classic novels into dumb romantic stories.
I can't say I fit into society all too well; however, its more to do with me than others. I just simply don't know how to live as a "guy" and don't view myself as one. As a result, I find myself feeling constantly anxious, self conscious, frightened and shy. Many people would think I'm a normal person who's a little ecentric and/or gay. No one would say that I don't fit into society at all. Even though I don't feel that I do, it's not the fault of society. My perception of myself is what's the issue. IIt's how I see myself and the person that I am inside. Without societies input, I'm tortured and desire to change. I just see myself as a girl and have always desired to live like any other one would. We don't choose this path and we are not doing it to appease others. That's just not wise (imo).
Having said that, I won't lie and say society doesn't play a role. I do want to have the "female privilege" to be able to express myself as I am. It's an internal identity that causes me to feel this desire, but societies acceptance makes things much easier. If or when I pass, I will feel much more at peace with myself and feel more capable of being true to who I am. It's nice to be true to myself, but I would also like the societal privilege that comes with being female. After all, guys aren't often accepted when they wear dresses. So, society and self perception are both important to me, but for different reasons. While society certainly hasn't led me to this path, I do desire the acceptance that will come with passing and becoming my true self.
Doing something to fit into society?
HahahahahaahehehehehehehehahahahahahahwhwhwwhwhehehehehehehhhHhhhHhwhhwwhwhh I think that sums up my response :)
I am changing because I want to.
I couldn't care less what society thinks.
As for the image, and the comment, no, I am not expecting I will someday ever want to go back.
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on November 03, 2013, 07:26:08 PM
Doing something to fit into society?
HahahahahaahehehehehehehehahahahahahahwhwhwwhwhehehehehehehhhHhhhHhwhhwwhwhh I think that sums up my response :)
I am changing because I want to.
I couldn't care less what society thinks.
As for the image, and the comment, no, I am not expecting I will someday ever want to go back.
LOL
The number of years I did something to fit into society... to fit what my culture thought I should be... to fit what my parents thought I should be... :P :P :P LOL
All awesome points and personal perceptions.
i said ariel because of the clear two things that she has on that is the same as the character.Her *shell* bra and long red hair.For me the concept was going back to when she *wished* to be human in order to find her lover boy and when she first got her *sea* legs or human legs.Almost like a contradiction though,the picture almost showed *once she got them,she regretted it and tried to get her fin back* by her own means of course.So in all *a choice that SHE felt was a mistake* and yeah i agree with another poster,almost like self harm while doing so.Oh and btw,according to *disney* version of this story,she DID become human,had NO regrets AND lived as one from then on.Even had children,so using this concept *i feel* was out of line personally (well i disagree with the statement on it too but) there are different methods to prove a point.
And alot of us here seem to be on one page though,regardless of how we start out,we can agree that transition is for self and not society.Even though we *strive* and work hard in hopes that we are accepted even with that transition,that doesnt mean thats WHY we transition.
Quote from: Chaos on November 04, 2013, 01:12:18 AM
All awesome points and personal perceptions.
i said ariel because of the clear two things that she has on that is the same as the character.Her *shell* bra and long red hair.For me the concept was going back to when she *wished* to be human in order to find her lover boy and when she first got her *sea* legs or human legs.Almost like a contradiction though,the picture almost showed *once she got them,she regretted it and tried to get her fin back* by her own means of course.So in all *a choice that SHE felt was a mistake* and yeah i agree with another poster,almost like self harm while doing so.Oh and btw,according to *disney* version of this story,she DID become human,had NO regrets AND lived as one from then on.Even had children,so using this concept *i feel* was out of line personally (well i disagree with the statement on it too but) there are different methods to prove a point.
And alot of us here seem to be on one page though,regardless of how we start out,we can agree that transition is for self and not society.Even though we *strive* and work hard in hopes that we are accepted even with that transition,that doesnt mean thats WHY we transition.
The story is a bad analogy whether you use The Little Mermaid from Disney or from Hans Christian Anderson. The Disney mermaid has no regrets. She doesn't want to be human for a man - he was just what drove her "dysphoria" over the edge. He is central to the story because otherwise Disney had no story, and it helps it stay true to the original.
The Hans Christian Anderson mermaid leaves the sea to be with a man she loves. There's a bunch of stuff about the soul, how mermaids don't have them and how humans do... but it doesn't really have anything to do with her decision. She's changing herself for the chance to be with someone else... if that love fails, she dies the death of a mermaid (becoming an air spirit). In terms of the moral of the story, HCA's version is better -- don't change yourself for anyone else.
Disney's story is an improvement on the original. Yeah, there are parts that are anti-feminist (she's a princess... it's a common theme), but overall it's about a girl being who she wants to be. That sounds a lot like me.
In both cases, the girl does not want to change back but is forced to (though Disney's plot deviates from this somewhat). That sounds like many of the people who detransition.
Regrets? Always... every decision carries at least some regret. I already do... which is to say - I wish I could have my family as it was. That doesn't mean I made the wrong decision, to finally be myself.
Quote from: kabit on November 04, 2013, 04:04:01 AM
The story is a bad analogy whether you use The Little Mermaid from Disney or from Hans Christian Anderson. The Disney mermaid has no regrets. She doesn't want to be human for a man - he was just what drove her "dysphoria" over the edge. He is central to the story because otherwise Disney had no story, and it helps it stay true to the original.
The Hans Christian Anderson mermaid leaves the sea to be with a man she loves. There's a bunch of stuff about the soul, how mermaids don't have them and how humans do... but it doesn't really have anything to do with her decision. She's changing herself for the chance to be with someone else... if that love fails, she dies the death of a mermaid (becoming an air spirit). In terms of the moral of the story, HCA's version is better -- don't change yourself for anyone else.
Disney's story is an improvement on the original. Yeah, there are parts that are anti-feminist (she's a princess... it's a common theme), but overall it's about a girl being who she wants to be. That sounds a lot like me.
In both cases, the girl does not want to change back but is forced to (though Disney's plot deviates from this somewhat). That sounds like many of the people who detransition.
Regrets? Always... every decision carries at least some regret. I already do... which is to say - I wish I could have my family as it was. That doesn't mean I made the wrong decision, to finally be myself.
Yeah like the brothers grimm,i dont get into negative view points of said stories or alternates.so sadly the only one i was raised on and will watch is the Disney version and even it has a great concept here.From what i remember *the disney version-havent seen it in years* she fell in love with him and wanted to be with him up above but her father wouldnt allow it but she did it anyway behind his back.But its an awesome story and one reason i have distaste for this art work picture posted.And i agree that regardless of which version you watch or get into,it was a bad analogy.And to say that this is WHY people transition,is hogwash..Well i guess there are SOME that do but idk..Yeah we all have regrets in many things,i know i do-mine dont involve transition however and i feel its my families loss but then again my situation is much different then everyone elses.I feel as long as someone is being who they are,thats what matters.
Quote from: Chaos on November 04, 2013, 06:24:54 AM
From what i remember *the disney version-havent seen it in years* she fell in love with him and wanted to be with him up above but her father wouldnt allow it but she did it anyway behind his back.
That's the memorable part. In Disney's version, she was extremely interested in humans long before she fell in love with the prince. Some of that is left to assumption, not specifics. She likes to visit the surface and collects things from human life. The prince was just her trigger to make her dream a reality.
HCA's version was that every mermaid visits the surface on her 15th birthday. When the title mermaid visits, she witnesses the shipwreck and saves the prince (whom she instantly falls in love with - who knows why, he's unconscious). She's given a spell to go to the surface to find love but if she fails she gets turned into sea foam (all mer-people's normal fate upon death). The whole death / sea foam bit is more about gaining a soul than living as human. The plot is shallower and the theme is part of the romanticism movement.