Seeing as ENDA goes up for a vote today, I've been paying closer attention to what the senate is discussing about it today.
The Republicans, specifically Dan Coats (IN) is saying that ENDA, as well as Obamacare and pretty much everything the government is doing is impeding all Americans' religious (Christian) rights and keeps everyone from "freedom of expression and religion."
Then there is Jeff Flake (AZ) who discussed how he voted for ENDA back in 2007, when it didn't include gender identity. Yet he is "concerned" about the current bill because it includes us in it. >:(
This isn't meant to be a Republican bashing thread. I felt others would like to discuss what's going on today.
Amy
The amendment to broaden "religious organizations" exemption from ENDA has failed to pass. 43 Y - 55 N.
amy
The vote for ENDA will happen at 1:45pm EST (45 minutes from now)
Here is the link (http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN2/) if you want to watch this online.
amy
A shame the religious liberty amendment failed. This isn't getting through the House unless it respects the wishes of the Other Half as much as its own target audience.
That said, it doesn't seem like respect is high on the Dem Senate's list of goals with this. This seems more like forcing change than reaching common ground.
Quote from: ZoeM on November 07, 2013, 12:07:43 PM
A shame the religious liberty amendment failed. This isn't getting through the House unless it respects the wishes of the Other Half as much as its own target audience.
That said, it doesn't seem like respect is high on the Dem Senate's list of goals with this. This seems more like forcing change than reaching common ground.
I thought about that when I first heard the news... but then I thought - what about the people in those positions? If it's OK for one person to be gay and teach at a christian university, why does the administration have the right to impose their system on that one person?
What if it were the transgender group they capitulated on... to make the right happy? If this passes both houses without transgender inclusion... we won't see ENDA as a group for another 5-10 years at best.
Quote from: ZoeM on November 07, 2013, 12:07:43 PM
A shame the religious liberty amendment failed. This isn't getting through the House unless it respects the wishes of the Other Half as much as its own target audience.
That said, it doesn't seem like respect is high on the Dem Senate's list of goals with this. This seems more like forcing change than reaching common ground.
I don't agree with it but ENDA already includes exemptions for religious organizations. The amendment that failed was to give them further exemptions.
amy
Sorry for the ignorance, but what is going on today?
Quote from: <3 on November 07, 2013, 12:54:47 PM
Sorry for the ignorance, but what is going on today?
ENDA = Employment Non-Discrimination Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discrimination_Act)
Basically, it will make it illegal to discriminate against LGBT people in the workplace in the United States.
amy
Quote from: <3 on November 07, 2013, 12:54:47 PM
Sorry for the ignorance, but what is going on today?
The US Senate is voting on the Employment Non Discrimination Act (ENDA). If it passes there, it goes to the House of Representatives to be tabled indefinitely.... I mean for their action (or non-action).
Quote from: Amelia Pond on November 07, 2013, 12:57:17 PM
ENDA = Employment Non-Discrimination Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discrimination_Act)
Basically, it will make it illegal to discriminate against LGBT people in the workplace in the United States.
amy
It's not already?
Quote from: kabit on November 07, 2013, 12:57:43 PM
The US Senate is voting on the Employment Non Discrimination Act (ENDA). If it passes there, it goes to the House of Representatives to be tabled indefinitely.... I mean for their action (or non-action).
It's unfortunate that it's the way this is headed. :(
Quote from: <3 on November 07, 2013, 12:58:42 PM
It's not already?
Not in all states, like mine for example.
amy
Quote from: <3 on November 07, 2013, 12:58:42 PM
It's not already?
Unfortunately it's a common misconception. Those not LGBT+ often believe we all have the right to not be fired just because of who we are. It is only true in a few states (by state law).
Quote from: Amelia Pond on November 07, 2013, 01:00:08 PM
Not in all states, like mine for example.
amy
Interesting. So you can be fired for being gay?
Quote from: kabit on November 07, 2013, 01:01:42 PM
Unfortunately it's a common misconception. Those not LGBT+ often believe we all have the right to not be fired just because of who we are. It is only true in a few states (by state law).
I believe in 29 states it's still legally allowed for employers to discriminate against people for their sexual orientation and 33 are currently allowed to discriminate against people for being transgender.
amy
Quote from: <3 on November 07, 2013, 01:03:24 PM
Interesting. So you can be fired for being gay?
yep
amy
Are there any similar loopholes in the US?
The vote is technically still going on but it's passed!!! :eusa_dance: Now to get Boehner to allow a vote in Congress. >:(
amy
Quote from: Amelia Pond on November 07, 2013, 01:19:52 PM
The vote is technically still going on but it's passed!!! :eusa_dance: Now to get Boehner to allow a vote in Congress. >:(
amy
Boehner is just a temporary setback. Stay tuned for 2015. . .
The religious amendment is primarily canard. They would still be hostile to the ENDA Bill if it existed and did not even describe a group. They very much support the fire anyone for any reason business practice. It matters little that religion or TS people or gay people are involved.
Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on November 07, 2013, 02:17:50 PM
The religious amendment is primarily canard. They would still be hostile to the ENDA Bill if it existed and did not even describe a group. They very much support the fire anyone for any reason business practice. It matters little that religion or TS people or gay people are involved.
It's so funny that they care about the "money to small business" side of it...
http://www.advocate.com/politics/2013/11/06/study-discrimination-costs-64-billion-every-year (http://www.advocate.com/politics/2013/11/06/study-discrimination-costs-64-billion-every-year)
So... what now, Congress?? Oh... it's just a "study" and you don't believe in "theories." ;) -- Bigots will always have an excuse.
http://www.bilerico.com/2008/04/a_possible_solution_to_the_enda_equation.php (http://www.bilerico.com/2008/04/a_possible_solution_to_the_enda_equation.php)
Quote from: Nikko on November 07, 2013, 04:20:05 PM
http://www.bilerico.com/2008/04/a_possible_solution_to_the_enda_equation.php (http://www.bilerico.com/2008/04/a_possible_solution_to_the_enda_equation.php)
This economic method works well for economic issues, for example: green standards that go above mandated standards. When it comes to bigotry, people willingly throw money away to enforce their stance on issues of hate. Take, for example, Barilla Pasta, Chick Fil A, and others like them. They do nothing wrong under the writ of free speech, but they do social wrongs that hurt them directly. If either CEO kept their mouth shut they'd have the LGBT+ population buying their products. They use hate speech (in the form of policy, but hate nonetheless) to express their homophobia.
Economic theory cannot replace human rights legislation.
Quote from: ZoeM on November 07, 2013, 12:07:43 PM
A shame the religious liberty amendment failed. This isn't getting through the House unless it respects the wishes of the Other Half as much as its own target audience.
That said, it doesn't seem like respect is high on the Dem Senate's list of goals with this. This seems more like forcing change than reaching common ground.
Well, to be fair, ever since the Tea Party got hold of the Republican party, the Republicans have refused to negotiate on much of anything. Good faith efforts to reach a deal have not been met with reasonable counter-offers, but with hyperbole and demagoguery. For example, when pushing for badly needed healthcare reform, the president could have listened to his base and gone with a more efficient single-payer system. He didn't, instead choosing to go with a system
originally written by the Republicans as an alternative to the system his base wanted, that, frankly, tends to trip over itself trying avoid stepping on toes. And the response? Hyperbole about death panels followed by repeated attempts to shut down the government. Given that sort of environment, I can't blame the Democrats for not even trying to cross the aisle. You can't work with someone acting in bad faith: you just have to go around them. Extreme behavior breeds extreme behavior, ya know.
Quote from: kabit on November 07, 2013, 03:21:05 PM
Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on November 07, 2013, 02:17:50 PM
The religious amendment is primarily canard. They would still be hostile to the ENDA Bill if it existed and did not even describe a group. They very much support the fire anyone for any reason business practice. It matters little that religion or TS people or gay people are involved.
It's so funny that they care about the "money to small business" side of it...
http://www.advocate.com/politics/2013/11/06/study-discrimination-costs-64-billion-every-year (http://www.advocate.com/politics/2013/11/06/study-discrimination-costs-64-billion-every-year)
So... what now, Congress?? Oh... it's just a "study" and you don't believe in "theories." ;) -- Bigots will always have an excuse.
It's not about costs so much as power. Our elites resent being told they have to treat anyone with respect, and will fight tooth and nail, even against their own interests, to make sure their power remains unchecked and unchallenged. The thing is, they know that if they couch their argument in religious terms, they can easily round up an army of zealots to fight for them. Thus all the nonsense about "threat to religious liberty." Honestly, I'd argue not having protections to be a bigger threat to liberty. By telling me I must adhere to the tenets of a religion I might not follow, or I'll lose my job,
my freedom to choose my faith without coercion is infringed upon.
This was my point in another thread. Unfortunately, I'm not good at expressing my thoughts into words as well as many of you.
Quote from: JenSquid on November 07, 2013, 04:53:57 PM
" Honestly, I'd argue not having protections to be a bigger threat to liberty. By telling me I must adhere to the tenets of a religion I might not follow, or I'll lose my job, my freedom to choose my faith without coercion is infringed upon.
Quote from: LordKAT on November 07, 2013, 05:07:04 PM
This was my point in another thread. Unfortunately, I'm not good at expressing my thoughts into words as well as many of you.
♥ your words are important!
Religious freedom is what this country, and especially my state, was built on. Unfortunately that freedom was for Christians being free from the Catholic state... and
some of those Christians (and the original Catholics) would like to see their rights placed above the rights of others... sound familiar?
Yes. We're dealing with religious privilege... for all these particular Christians think they're oppressed, it's quite the opposite. In my area the Catholics feel the same way - and there are a ton of them (hey - I'm one... or was, at least).
I'm also not attacking Christianity. The tenets are good. The inclusive, accepting Christian groups are among the best people in the country... but a lot is done politically in the name of Christianity that are directly opposite to the true teachings of their religion (not to mention directly opposite to The Constitution). It blows my mind that a religion based on the love of others, despite their differences, can be the source of so much hate.
Here's a tweet I sent (https://twitter.com/KabitTarah/status/397032757013905408) Nov 3:
"Sameness is most important, ostracize those who are different, and for god's sake stay away from the lepers." - 11:3 Nowhere in the Bible