And is the dysphoria constant or fluctuating and sometimes close to zero ?
I have dysphoria but not every say. So i wonder if not having it all the time means one is not transsexual but rater transgender.
When I decided to transition I felt like I was lying to myself because I didn't really "hate" my body. As I went on HRT and my body changed I realized that I had been living with dysphoria for years but that I didn't understand it as such.
I had settled for my male body and that meant I was just complacent and detached. I felt inhuman and really disconnected from myself.
That's not quite the same manifestation as some trans ladies whose dysphoria is seen as a very clear and legible disconnect between the mind and body.
Now that I understand myself and know how my body ought to be my dysphoria is much more tuned to that angst of a male body with a non-male mind.
I used to try to explain my transition to justify it to others because I was trying to justify it to myself. These days I just accept myself and don't much care WHY I am transitioning. Who cares why If it makes me happy it's the right thing to do.
Don't let dysphoria notions confuse you, but that being said - if you lack dysphoria meaning you don't mind being seen as and having the body of a man - a full transition might not be right for you. In such a case transition might make your dysphoria worse or open a can of worms where you could have left it alone.
That's up to you, none of us can know what this means to you.
Keep asking questions and being honest with yourself
:)
Here are the terms we use on the site. This may help avoid confusion:
Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.
Dysphoria varies from person to person and doesn't determine how you identify. Hugs, Devlyn
I don't think so, at least not "body" dysphoria in the usual sense. For lack of a better word, I guess that people who take active steps to change their bodies do, to different extents. People who do not physically transition, may or may not.
Those who do not often have different reasons some of which might be financial, but other don't because their gender isn't fixed or very binary, even though some of these people do have feelings of dysphoria. But this is a myth kind of that everybody who is trans feels dysphoria or that all dysphoria is paralyzing and so on.
--Jay
I know somebody will disagree, but I think the answer is yes. (Assuming you are talking about transsexual people and not about the trans* umbrella, that would be completely different)
I think that you have to feel dysphoria to transition. That said, as you will know dysphoria has infinite faces. For somebody is more severe, for others is more subtle. It is a different feeling for everyone.
I heard stories of 4yo kids self mutilating their genitalia, stories of kids who were little more than toddlers already telling theirmparents they should have been born of the opposing sex. And then there are people who feel disgusted by their body, others who feel disconnected, others who cannot understand what they feel about their bodies. And it's okay, none of these experiences is more validating than the others.
In the end I think that people should ask themselves: would I feel better about me and about my body if it were of the opposite sex? If the answer is yes, that's dysphoria. It doesn't matter wich shapes it takes for you.
Sorry for my bad english, but I hope my point was clear.
^ that's a great breakdown!
Body dysphoria? Nope, never had it... I did have a knowledge that my body was wrong, but that was as far as it went. I guess my username is appropriate, because despite the lack of dysphoria, I transitioned - and it's been the best choice I've ever made.
Why did I transition if I was 'happy' in my male body? I could no longer lie to myself (or others) about what and who I knew the real me to be.
I know some people who can't even be associated with their birth sex. Then again, I know some people who could care less, as long as they're addressed properly. Mistakes can be made, but they won't be completely uppity about it.
I personally would just like to be recognized as female, but I know what I look like, so I won't hold it against anyone if they make a mistake. I'll correct them and move on. If it becomes an issue, then I just stop talking to the person, because clearly, they aren't worth my time or energy.
[edit] and look at that! I'm in the ftm section. Sorry! *runs*
Though there are some commonalities, dysphoria can take different forms for different people. I always had an inkling that I would much rather of been female at birth, but never explicitly hated being male bodied. I just accepted the hand that I had been dealt physically even though I felt something was wrong, which basically crippled me emotionally for a long while.
After starting hrt and beginning to transition a lot of my emotional issues went out with the T, but I feel more physical dysphoria than previously (I want to get this done and dusted so that I can start living life to the full), but I know that will pass.
I found this (http://freethoughtblogs.com/zinniajones/2013/09/that-was-dysphoria-8-signs-and-symptoms-of-indirect-gender-dysphoria/) article a few months ago which pretty much sums up me up to age 30, rather than the classic "I always wanted to play with barbies and wear pink princess dresses/woman in a mans body" style dysphoria.
^^^ my experience too!
Quote from: Kaylee link=topic=153970.msg1281527#msg1281527
I foundurl=http://freethoughtblogs.com/zinniajones/2013/09/that-was-dysphoria-8-signs-and-symptoms-of-indirect-gender-dysphoria/]this[/url] article a few months ago which pretty much sums up me up to age 30, rather than the classic "I always wanted to play with barbies and wear pink princess dresses/woman in a mans body" style dysphoria.
I had read this article some time ago and I liked it a lot, but then I couldn't find it anymore, I looked for it everywhere. Thank you for sharing it, I was actually hoping somebody would sooner or later!!
And by the way, for who has issue deciding if transition is the right choice and if what she/he feels is dysphoria, I strongly recommend reading it. I found it enlightening.
Quote from: PrincessDi on November 13, 2013, 10:22:35 AM
When I decided to transition I felt like I was lying to myself because I didn't really "hate" my body. As I went on HRT and my body changed I realized that I had been living with dysphoria for years but that I didn't understand it as such.
I had settled for my male body and that meant I was just complacent and detached. I felt inhuman and really disconnected from myself.
That's not quite the same manifestation as some trans ladies whose dysphoria is seen as a very clear and legible disconnect between the mind and body.
Now that I understand myself and know how my body ought to be my dysphoria is much more tuned to that angst of a male body with a non-male mind.
I used to try to explain my transition to justify it to others because I was trying to justify it to myself. These days I just accept myself and don't much care WHY I am transitioning. Who cares why If it makes me happy it's the right thing to do.
Don't let dysphoria notions confuse you, but that being said - if you lack dysphoria meaning you don't mind being seen as and having the body of a man - a full transition might not be right for you. In such a case transition might make your dysphoria worse or open a can of worms where you could have left it alone.
That's up to you, none of us can know what this means to you.
Keep asking questions and being honest with yourself
:)
Dysphoria does not mean you hate your body and hating your body doesn't not mean you live dysphoria.
Dysphoria is a bunch of symptoms mixed = anxiety, depression, irritability, rage...
I do not hate my body. I just would like a female body instead. But I have dysphoria.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 13, 2013, 10:25:08 AM
Here are the terms we use on the site. This may help avoid confusion:
Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.
Dysphoria varies from person to person and doesn't determine how you identify. Hugs, Devlyn
I know what transgender means and I am obviously not using this broad definition but the original one which is people who want to live in the opposite gender without changing their sex and who do rather feel bi gendered. They are between ->-bleeped-<-s and transsexuals.
Quote from: Kaylee on November 13, 2013, 02:37:59 PM
Though there are some commonalities, dysphoria can take different forms for different people. I always had an inkling that I would much rather of been female at birth, but never explicitly hated being male bodied. I just accepted the hand that I had been dealt physically even though I felt something was wrong, which basically crippled me emotionally for a long while.
After starting hrt and beginning to transition a lot of my emotional issues went out with the T, but I feel more physical dysphoria than previously (I want to get this done and dusted so that I can start living life to the full), but I know that will pass.
I found this (http://freethoughtblogs.com/zinniajones/2013/09/that-was-dysphoria-8-signs-and-symptoms-of-indirect-gender-dysphoria/) article a few months ago which pretty much sums up me up to age 30, rather than the classic "I always wanted to play with barbies and wear pink princess dresses/woman in a mans body" style dysphoria.
Playing with dolls has no link with dysphoria. It is a hobby. And transexual often tell that, often because they know shrinks expect them to tell that.
Quote from: Sacha on November 13, 2013, 06:59:07 PM
Dysphoria is a bunch of symptoms mixed = anxiety, depression, irritability, rage...
I hope that ya'll don't mind me posting on the guys side, but this topic got my attention :)
This is the way I experience dysphoria. All last week I was unable to present as myself, and i grew more anxious all week long without realizing what was happening. When I was finally able to be me, the anxiety immediately went away and a good feeling came over me. If i ignore the anxiety it eventually builds up to a point that I can't take it and I experience depression, irritability, and rage, exactly like you said.
I can't say that i've ever really hated my body, but I know that some do experience their dysphoria that way.
I know that there are different strength of dysphoria, the one of ->-bleeped-<- is rather mild as he can make it go away with just dressing.
Trans have stronger dysphoria and so want more than dressing.
But I was surprised to meet a trans who told me he was never suicidal. So may be he didn't felt dysphoric or he could just handle it so did not want to kill himself.
I have average dysphoria but it doesn't last long. So I never had enough time to kill myself, just to think about it.
You make a lot of assumptions about other people's identities. Hugs, Devlyn
It sounds logical that some trans do not feel dysphoria as gender identity disorder is no more in the DSM so being trans is no more a illness while Gender Dysphoria is in the DSM.
So if one is trans with no dysphoria he is not ill, only being dysphoric means ill.
It is similar to homosexuality and ego dystonic homosexuality in 1973. Only sick if feels bad to be homosexual.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 13, 2013, 10:25:08 AM
Here are the terms we use on the site. This may help avoid confusion:
Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.
Dysphoria varies from person to person and doesn't determine how you identify. Hugs, Devlyn
How you identify determine the dysphoria = if you think you are a woman while you are male you may feel dysphoria while if you think you are a man and are male you have no chance to feel gender dysphoria.
But dysphoria may be the visible part of the iceberg, you feel dysphoria and discover later that it is a gender one and you discover that your gender is not the good one.
Hi Everyone,
Hope people don't mind me stepping in the guys room, but I saw Sacha's post in the "whats new" and wanted to respond.
Sacha, you're right that transgender is no longer in the DSM. Gender Dysphoria is, which is being depressed about the gender you appear.
"But I was surprised to meet a trans who told me he was never suicidal. So may be he didn't felt dysphoric or he could just handle it so did not want to kill himself."
It shouldn't be a surprise, not every trans*person is or has been suicidal. We have a greater risk though, but the root cause of suicide is depression - that can be clinical - as in an imbalance, or situational, which is related to someone's situation and feelings of helplessness, which is heightened in our community because people don't understand us and frequently reject us.
I haven't gotten any real dysphoria myself because I know as long as I keep listening to my doctor and following what she suggested, that I won't look like this forever. That doesn't mean I don't have a good cry once in a while or feel sad for a while about something I noticed in a mirror or something someone said to me, but I don't hold on to it, I don't hate myself for it. I also remember when I looked like a girl when I was young, so I have that to hold on to as well. The danger for me is that when I've completed transitioning, I won't look like her again, so I have to base my expectations on reality - factoring in my age, health, and the simple fact I'm not 19 anymore, lol.
With time and medication - and people in groups like this or real life meet-and-greets - we can ALL make it through to the other side - together.
Hugs,
Kelsie
For me, the dysphoric episodes would always come and go since adolescence hit, but the severity of them got progressively worse as I got older. They got so bad last year that I frequently would curl up into a fetal position and cry myself to sleep, hating everything about my body and no longer cared if I had lived or died. My go-to coping methods of denial and suppression with a side order of booze and drugs were no longer working and I was finally forced to face my #1 demon and deepest, darkest secret that I had sworn I would take to my grave.
Had I not felt the extreme soul-crushing dysphoria, I'm pretty sure I would never have transitioned. Hey, I might have never so much as worn women's clothing in private. Apparently I have quite some capacity for self-delusion...
Quote from: Jill F on November 13, 2013, 08:39:14 PM
For me, the dysphoric episodes would always come and go since adolescence hit, but the severity of them got progressively worse as I got older. They got so bad last year that I frequently would curl up into a fetal position and cry myself to sleep, hating everything about my body and no longer cared if I had lived or died. My go-to coping methods of denial and suppression with a side order of booze and drugs were no longer working and I was finally forced to face my #1 demon and deepest, darkest secret that I had sworn I would take to my grave.
Had I not felt the extreme soul-crushing dysphoria, I'm pretty sure I would never have transitioned. Hey, I might have never so much as worn women's clothing in private. Apparently I have quite some capacity for self-delusion...
Interesting testimony.
I understand and agree that if dysphoria gets stronger with time or more often present with time, sooner or later once has no choice, it is death or changing something in the way of living the gender ( dressing at first, then changing body then changing life ).
I think it is a balance between the dysphoria degree and the self defense to cope with it. As long as you have enough mental strength to control dysphoria you can stay a man who do not even dress.
If your defenses get more fragile because you have other problems or less energy or if the dysphoria goes more and more powerful and floods the defense one day, you become a zombie, depressed and incapable to have any pleasure or will to live. You feel not alive so killing yourself does sound terrible and somewhat not real as you do not live anyways. You live like a flowers with no pleasure or target.
My dysphoria has been going up in the last few years as I needed to express more and more the feminine side. Now I have long hair with a rather feminin cut and it looks weird as a man. But I fells better than with short hair. More in tune with myself. Sexually I started with men 5 years ago and could not imagine now stoping sex with men, too good, I feel too much myself to stop sex with men. I am less and less interested in women. I see them like nice art pieces, some magical creature I admire but I have no real desire to have sex with them. And I probably never had.
So the dysphoria is pushing me to act in a more and more feminine way, physically and sexually.
The more the dysphoria is present, the less I can function socially. I stay in bed, like empty and desperate. Being online and waiting the best moment in the day = when I go to sleep because then there is not dysphoria.
Luckily, dysphoria doesn't last more than a few hours or days. So when it vanished I can live more or,less normaly. But I feel a little bored without the dysphoria and this erotic sensation that I am a woman. And once it has gone I feel that it is just sleeping, that it can come back suddenly, that it is inside me even when not handicapping.
This feeling of the invisible dysphoria always here, even after sex is rather recent. May be the explanation of this invisible ghost is that I realized and/or admitted to myself that I was trans (and not a man playing only sexual games for fun) or that the ghost is here to open my eyes and show me that I am not a real man but a genuine trans person who will never be in peace with himself if he does not give his hand to the ghost and let the ghost be his guide.
What is sure is that dysphoria never vanishes by itself, I must do something to scare the ghost, like dressing at home, going outside in drag, having sex with a man or with my dildo, expressing my feminine side in public being the best way to kill the dysphoria, may be better than sex, just walking outside as a woman and being seen as genuine woman is the best weapon to make the ghost sleep.
What to do with my ghost ?
Will he become too powerful and win ? I tend to think that sooner or later he will win and take the control of my whole life. Then I would probably live as a woman openly. At least a part time social life as a woman's to start with. Hormones. May be surgery. The ghost has no limit I guess. Once he wins, there will be no come back.
There was an incident at a friends birthday party where a person kept referring to themselves as trans. This person was packing with a ridiculous bulge down the length of their thigh, binding with an ace bandage, was very obviously female, not passing at all etc. and kept feeling the need to talk about how 'trans' they were. They got angry about being misgendered. They were wearing a trans pride flag on their belt. Ever since this incident I have come to the realization that there are people out there who treat our medical problem like a fashion accessory and make it out to be the latest cool trend, because they cosplay and found twinfools on youtube and "want to be just like (him), even if means suddenly becoming a boy cause thats totally cool (sadly enough this is a statement I've actually heard someone make)!"
So now, to me, the idea that someone can be transgender and not feel dysphoria is mind boggling as well as infuriating. When I didnt have a binder available I used duct tape--and this was before I even knew what binding was--that left me horrible cuts and blisters. The phsyical pain I felt from that was so inconsequential in comparison to having my breast be obvious to people. I have cut off entire friend groups because someone called me 'she' and I was paranoid that everyone knew I was a natal female. So when I see people call themself trans and then refer to their biological penis or vagina as their mangina and talk about how much they love it and how comfortable they are with their body, I don't believe they're trans. How can you do that? How you be comfortable in a body you don't want? In a body that causes you emotional, phsyical, and mental anguish? How can you be transgender if it doesn't? My definition of transgender has always been identifying with the opposite assigned sex at birth. My definition may be wrong but I believe transgender is still an ever growing and expanding term. There are people who identify as agender, genderqueer, or third gender, and these people confuse and frustrate me to no end. As if life isn't difficult enough being born in the wrong body you want to bring MORE attention to yourself by coining yourself something as out of the ordinary as neither male nor female? Perhaps I shouldnt be so closed minded but these people who want to be Sally somedays and Samuel others make my condition feel invalidated. How can I ever come out to someone as transgender when their experince with it will most likely be the ridiculous things they've seen on the internet?
Sorry for the long winded post everyone. That was something thats been on my mind for ages that I've never really been able to express.
I will caution here that at Susan's transgender is inclusive.
I will remind people that MtF cross dressers are women and the correct pronouns are to be used.
I will not tolerate incorrect pronouns.
Please correct your posts
Cindy
Quote from: Sacha on November 13, 2013, 10:12:19 AM
And is the dysphoria constant or fluctuating and sometimes close to zero ?
I have dysphoria but not every say. So i wonder if not having it all the time means one is not transsexual but rater transgender.
To me, "gender dysphoria" are symptoms of a suppressed personality, regardless of what I look like. I knew I was a girl when young, the hormones blocked off personality development, and I had "gender dysphoria" until I took anti-androgens and could "unlock" my original personality.
My dysphoria was nearly eliminated once my personality could finally express itself. (Though, looking like a male was disturbing - it was not dysphoric - just thought I look ugly). Now I just have "body dysphoria" of having a penis.
At a prior job, everyone in the small company regarded me as female, even though I looked male because I spoke and acted like a female. They also found it amusing that a "guy" was talking like a girl. "Gender dysphoria" was never about what I looked like.
The DSM seems to be written from a mental-illness model. "Gender dysphoria" is presented as "man wears dress and says he is woman" :P and it does not mention that a person's real personality is being suppressed.
There's a lot of excellent breakdowns of real lived experience with dysphoria, far exceeding the stereotypes society establishes for us.
Ttim:
You're experience sounds very traumatizing, and I can understand why you would feel very strongly regarding your gender as a condition given this.
I don't understand how you can trivialize non-binary experience as you so. This is a recurring issue that I see expressed by the FTM community and not so much by the MTF. I understand how this person you saw at a party might seem appropriative.
But look how many of us transition without this standard narrative of crippling dysphoria? Being who you are is not always so cut and dry. It is a privilege to be within the male/female binary and not all trans people feel comfortable in that framing.
I think I'm a woman but I also think I'm non-binary. I mean at the end of the day life without transition was pale in comparison to what happened when I accepted myself. I really love this idea of dysphoria as a lack of access to ones true self.
Please be open to other realities, this is a diverse world. That doesn't mean that we can't make space to talk a out this issue, I really appreciate you taking the time to articulate it for the first time. I just hope you're open to hearing others as well.
Quote from: PrincessDi on November 14, 2013, 05:11:03 AM
There's a lot of excellent breakdowns of real lived experience with dysphoria, far exceeding the stereotypes society establishes for us.
Ttim:
You're experience sounds very traumatizing, and I can understand why you would feel very strongly regarding your gender as a condition given this.
I don't understand how you can trivialize non-binary experience as you so. This is a recurring issue that I see expressed by the FTM community and not so much by the MTF. I understand how this person you saw at a party might seem appropriative.
But look how many of us transition without this standard narrative of crippling dysphoria? Being who you are is not always so cut and dry. It is a privilege to be within the male/female binary and not all trans people feel comfortable in that framing.
I think I'm a woman but I also think I'm non-binary. I mean at the end of the day life without transition was pale in comparison to what happened when I accepted myself. I really love this idea of dysphoria as a lack of access to ones true self.
Please be open to other realities, this is a diverse world. That doesn't mean that we can't make space to talk a out this issue, I really appreciate you taking the time to articulate it for the first time. I just hope you're open to hearing others as well.
In regards to being open to other realities, I would like to be. It's just very difficult when people want to be called gender neutral pronous that just aren't part of the everyday persons vocabulary. It's confusing to suddenly treat people as if they're something not male or female, despite wanting to transition, those are the only 2 genders we learn growing up. Doesn't that sound ridiculous to any normal human being---"I'm not a he or a she, I'm a ze/xe--how do you actually function in the outside world as neither gender? Do you just pick and choose what gender you wanna be depending on whats convenient for you that day? It's confusing to me more than anything, I don't understand it. Granted, my anger probably has to do with bad experiences with genderqueer people in general, but that doesn't change the fact that it does make me feel like my condition is being made a joke of. I can't be he one day and she the next. I can't accept something I don't understand and something that has never been explained to me.
I actually got negged for expressing my thoughts on here, one of the main reasons I've always disliked and stayed away from the entire lgbtqrstuv etc. community. You have to be accepting of everyone, no matter what! Sorry for anyone I offended...but that's just not the way it is sometimes. I think we should all know that by now. Everyone has opinions and we should all be open to helping eachother understand, not by making passive aggressive neg comments (that's you, orangecreamsicle!) or telling people how wrong they are. You don't get people to understand you like that. Sorry if my original post came off in that manner.
"you have to be accepting of everyone" . . . but respecting someones request of using gender neutral pronouns "sounds ridicilous to any normal human being"? ???
I think you mean "we need to be accepting of everyone I find acceptable".
Unacceptable for a place that's supposed to be inclusive. Being trans sounds ridiculous to many in society. There's non-binaries out there. Get over it.
Hi friends :police:
Time to take break
Topic locked
Thank you
V M