So I was at my local Walmart this morning (11/21/13) as female, since I'm going part-time (well, not that local because this Walmart was in another town but in the same county. There is a Walmart that's closer to me but it's a 20 minute walk and I didn't feel like it. Plus, there are too many employees there who know my face well enough to recognize me).
But anyway, getting back to the story, I did my shopping for some clothes and makeup or whatever. When I finished, I sat outside the plaza to wait for the bus. There was this older man seated far away from me. He was there first and I was seated away from him.
After finishing his phone call, he asked me about the bus. Now this, you guys, is where the story gets interesting! We were seated at the same seats, he didn't get up and neither did I. I didn't hear exactly what he said to me but he did ask me about the bus saying he knows I know because he has seen me around here before or something along those lines. I didn't think anything of it because I thought he was just kidding around with me. I overlooked it and told him about the bus and exchanged brief pieces of information. When we were done talking, he said after that...
"All right, thanks, my man."
I couldn't believe it! I was stunned and offended both at the same time. I didn't know what to say or how to react! Then after that short moment's silence, I said, "Uh, excuse me?"
He ignored me. Well, I don't know if he was ignoring me or if he failed to hear me. Mind you, I never seen this man in my life, not, that I remember anyway.
I really wanted to punch the guy hard across the face but that aggression is closer to something a man would do, not to mention the situation would've escalated, then my cover would've really been blown. But I can't put into words how angry I was that he did that. >:(
I just let it go but now I deeply regret doing so. The least I should've said was, "I'm a girl you stupid idiot!" >:(
But I am NOT a man. I may've been born male and I may not be transitioning yet but I am NOT a man and never was a man, just a woman with the wrong parts.
I kept telling myself that it's only because he saw me before, as a guy. But that doesn't help because he should've been considerate enough to assume i'm transitioning, which I'm not yet.
If he didn't want to acknowledge me as a woman, then fine, but the most he could've said was just, "Thank you," and that would've been the end of it. I'm still trying to figure out why he couldn't just say that.
I did walk by him to wait somewhere else but that was because I wanted him to say something else to me, only for the satisfaction I would've got out of giving him the third finger.
I feel this all just relates to how ignorant and utterly inconsiderate cisgendered people (men especially) can be. Well, I don't want to say all cis people are like that because I'm sure they're not.
What I don't understand is that no one seems to give me a hard time about my gender. I can go in and out of the women's bathroom with no problem. I get ma'am'd for the most part.
How do you deal with those situations where despite presenting as your desired gender someone clocks you and calls you by your original gender? And I'm not just talking to m2f people, I'm interested in insight from f2m people as well.
I know this is the kind of situation everyone handles differently but I'd just like some insight so if I were to experience a similar situation in the future, I can handle it better and stand up for myself.
Happens, some times you have to just grin and bear it. People who are trying to be dicks will call you sir, he, ect. I had a man in my taxicab some time ago who repeatedly called me sir over and over. He's quite lucky i was driving and about to burst into tears, because he very easily could have just dissappeared never to be seen again...
Yeah ... welcome to tranhood. lol.
Unfortunately, THIS HAPPENS. You're right, men often are the ones who point it out the most. HOWEVER ... if you want to know if you TRULY, TRULY pass ... look at what small children are saying about you. You think men are bad? A child will outright ask "is that a man or a woman?" ... so, if you pass the small child test, in my opinion you're passing at least 95%+ of the time.
Anyway, the funny part about men who make it a big deal like that is.. they probably are into trans women. I've talked to men who will make fun of a trans women openly just so his friends don't catch on to his private desires. I wouldn't worry too much about it unless it's a violent confrontation.
My advice to you is voice training is your BEST FRIEND. I've been openly and embarrassingly clocked as fulltime exactly 6 times. In 5 out of the 6 times, I opened my mouth and started talking to them and they IMMEDIATELY retracted their statement and even apologized. For some reason, the voice / adam's apple thing is what people seem to go by as the ultimate way to tell if you're a "real girl." So... check out that girl, CandiFLA on Youtube (I forget what it is exactly, Google search that) and see what she has to say about voice training. It will help you a lot if you get into tricky situations.
Good luck with things and DO NOT let this discourage you ... it's happened to every single one of us.
I don't know if this is the case with him or not, but some people, especially the teenage to mid 20's males refer to everyone as "dude" or "man." If that's the case, I try not to get too offended when they do.
Hhhhm I really believe that they dont understand that they re hurting us...
I mean I cant believe that this guy called you man to insult you , he propably thought it was fine...
they dont understand the pain they cause us...
im pretty sure about that... :'(
early in transition, I would make much ado about such comments. Now I just blow it off, unless it is blatant. Then I become all over them.
A friend of mine shared with me a story from when she had her SRS. She was told by someone at a hospital she was transferring to, "You will have to dilate your own vagina, sir." To which she replied, "Really? You just said that!"
While I have not had near that extreme misgendering, the "Really?" response is my fave. It's like saying, "We're really going to do this childishness now?" as you exude confidence in yourself and your identity. That usually seems to inform the transgressors of their error, or at least silences them as they see they can't bring you down. Has worked out pretty good for me, and my friend reported a good response too.
In the original post you say "as female" but it's not clear just how "female". I wear a skirt so there is no doubt. If you were wearing jeans he could have gone by your voice.
Quote from: MaryXYX on December 19, 2013, 06:02:43 AM
In the original post you say "as female" but it's not clear just how "female". I wear a skirt so there is no doubt. If you were wearing jeans he could have gone by your voice.
I disagree completely. Firstly, why can't men wear skirts? I have a few friends who wear sarongs, and heck if they wanted to wear a skirt, more power to them. Wearing jeans does not make you less female than a woman in a skirt.
I know two men who wear skirts and yet have beards. I think it looks odd but they are comfortable with it.
It's not about being "less female" it's about what the man at the bus stop saw - or thought he saw. If he saw "person in jeans" and hadn't decided on the gender, then heard what he thought was a male voice, that would explain his response.
Many of the t-women I know say that wearing jeans means you are comfortable as a woman and don't feel any need to prove it. Unfortunately there are some psychiatrists who think it means you haven't really made up your mind to transition.
Hi AnnaiyahStarr,
Unless it was your voice that did it, if you were clocked, I'd be inclined to pass it off as a local colloquialism. In Oz there are various elements of society that will address everyone, from the Prime Minister down, as mate, guys, blokes etc. These people just don't care about gender, it's superfluous to them. And they really aren't aware of it.
Huggs
Catherine
Quote from: MaryXYX on December 19, 2013, 07:51:22 AM
I know two men who wear skirts and yet have beards. I think it looks odd but they are comfortable with it.
It's not about being "less female" it's about what the man at the bus stop saw - or thought he saw. If he saw "person in jeans" and hadn't decided on the gender, then heard what he thought was a male voice, that would explain his response.
Many of the t-women I know say that wearing jeans means you are comfortable as a woman and don't feel any need to prove it. Unfortunately there are some psychiatrists who think it means you haven't really made up your mind to transition.
Quote from: MaryXYX on December 19, 2013, 06:02:43 AM
In the original post you say "as female" but it's not clear just how "female". I wear a skirt so there is no doubt. If you were wearing jeans he could have gone by your voice.
My hair was in a bun, with a sparkling pink head band. I was wearing my Baby Phat coat, a denim skirt, and crimson red tights underneath (like the ones girls wear to catholic school) and my gender-neutral van sneakers and I spoke in a feminine voice. It's not perfectly female but it's not very manly either. So quite frankly, I don't know what the hell gave me away aside from my Adam's Apple, which isn't very prominent at all as its small and is just below my chin. Besides, I keep hearing the Adam's Apple surprisingly isn't the cause of an m2f person getting clocked, not to mention he was sitting a good distance away from me that it would have to have been next to impossible for him to see it.
Still even in that, I don't appreciate him clocking me. >:( Is it odd that to this day, I'm still mad about that? That I'm mad at him for clocking me and at myself for not defending myself?
Well, it wasn't that long ago. This was back in November.
Oh right - that gets me annoyed too. Nothing to give me away but somehow they knew.
I have got annoyed about people doing something similar (I didn't say anything about it) but later they said things that indicated that they actually had no idea that I was trans. I was projecting my fear of being read onto them. Its funny as I was so sure that I had been read at the time from exactly that sort of thing. Perhaps it was the same for you?
My advice:
You're not even on HRT yet. Give yourself a break!
You can't expect to pass 100% when you've barely even started. Give it time, give it patience. It takes time.
The fact that you can pass to people at all before even starting HRT should be considered quite the feat in itself. That some people are indeed gendering you female, even without the feminine skin, even without actual breasts and hips, that's pretty good!
Quote from: Carrie Liz on March 24, 2014, 07:19:41 PM
My advice:
You're not even on HRT yet. Give yourself a break!
You can't expect to pass 100% when you've barely even started. Give it time, give it patience. It takes time.
The fact that you can pass to people at all before even starting HRT should be considered quite the feat in itself. That some people are indeed gendering you female, even without the feminine skin, even without actual breasts and hips, that's pretty good!
I do have an appointment with the Mazzoni Center on the 31st and on the 10th so hopefully I will start my HRT relatively around mid-late-April.
It's exciting for me to hear you say that, but I don't think I can take all the credit. I do have to use makeup and concealer to make my face look somewhat feminine -- to hide my extended jaw and five o'clock shadow, and some eye shadow. As for breasts, I stuff my bra. But you are right though, I can't expect to fully pass as female when I haven't even started my transition yet.
As exciting it is for people to be gendering me female, that - might I add - I would use the women's restrooms and never once had a problem, sometimes, I don't know if there is something about me that's giving me away and that they're gendering me female to be polite or if they're really convinced I am female... though I'm not one... yet...
That's not the first time I got clocked, though. I once went to this one place just to use the bathroom because they were all locked, so I went to the front desk to ask the lady for the key to the bathroom and she handed me the key to the men's room, and yes, I was in my female masquerade. I was so angry! Damn her!
But then I just told myself, "I need to just wait until I transition to start going out as female."
No, you definitely don't have to wait until you've started HRT before going out as female. Do what makes you happy, and don't let perceived physical deficiencies stop you. All I was saying is that early in transition, you can't expect to pass 100%.
I actually enjoy being clocked. Call me weird/crazy, but I am a mischievious/onrey little botch and am tickled pink by it. I have even had people cast bets in front of me, only for me (depending on my mood if I want to pass off as "male" or "female") tell the person I am male or I am female just because I want to see if they really know or not...which case most people don't. Because: the answer is neither. The SRS is to get rid of the bits and not change my identity. But hey, if they are going to try and have fun at my expense I might as well have fun with them.
Maybe he was an admirer ;) and likes to push a girl's buttons...
Possible, but most people are just completely clueless about transgender "triggers" like misgendering. They don't do it to be intentionally mean, its just how they react. Especial men. Double especially older men.
Quote from: Ev on April 14, 2014, 08:04:09 AM
I actually enjoy being clocked. Call me weird/crazy, but I am a mischievious/onrey little botch and am tickled pink by it. I have even had people cast bets in front of me, only for me (depending on my mood if I want to pass off as "male" or "female") tell the person I am male or I am female just because I want to see if they really know or not...which case most people don't. Because: the answer is neither. The SRS is to get rid of the bits and not change my identity. But hey, if they are going to try and have fun at my expense I might as well have fun with them.
I LOVE THIS. I don't "enjoy" people clocking or speculating about me as it is none of their business, but I do enjoy messing with peoples' heads. More power to you, hun! >:-)
Yup. One of the fun things of androgyny is watching the reactions of people as they attempt to process the dissonant gender clues you send them. "Does not compute. Does not compute. Does not compute." LOL
Quote from: JamesG on April 26, 2014, 07:53:50 AM
Yup. One of the fun things of androgyny is watching the reactions of people as they attempt to process the dissonant gender clues you send them. "Does not compute. Does not compute. Does not compute." LOL
hahaha so true
I will say from past experience that some people don't like to be messed with. When I was 22, some friends and I were in a small little hole-in-the-wall bar and some guy started harassing two transgender girls for "messing" with him. I'm pretty sure he was the one flirting with them and then he realized they were transgender. (side note, I was being a long-haired boy that day) One of my awesome hippy friends - I used to call her big mama Sarah - kicked him out of the bar. She didn't work there either, she just kicked him out.
The moral of the story is don't put yourself in a bad position and be safe. Also, you me and everyone thats TG is an ambassador for the TG community. It kind of sucks but its also kind of neat.
Quote from: JamesG on April 26, 2014, 07:41:00 AM
Possible, but most people are just completely clueless about transgender "triggers" like misgendering. They don't do it to be intentionally mean, its just how they react. Especial men. Double especially older men.
Yeah, I know how that is. I go through the same thing with my dad, a friend of his, and my brother. I don't think that they mean to do it in a spiteful manner, they are just really dumb. I know that sounds harsh, but trust me, if you met them you would understand. My mom tries to rationalize it by saying, "well, it's their drug/alcohol use that has turned their brains into mush". But, I don't buy that. EVERYONE in my family has drank or did drugs at one point or another. I did it myself for years (but only to run away from the GID). But, if I were a cis person and I had a friend that was transitioning, I would never be so stupid as to misgender them and then cop out with such a lame excuse. Besides, I've always been pretty good with change and remembering things like that. The others are just moronic, imbecilic and downright dumb.
I wouldn't worry about it. When I'm in my male mode talking to several CIS girls I always say, "what are you guys up to today?"
Since they are CIS girls they don't think twice about it.