Just curious because I like to sing and wouldn't wanna loose it
It will change it. You'll need to continue to practice more than ever, but it's possible, post-T, to have an incredible range.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZAiz86XQHg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZAiz86XQHg)
So that means I'd have to find a different range then or if I practice even more on T will it be similar ive heard transguys say the sucked after and it scared me
I've seen a really thorough discussion of this elsewhere on this board, with links to videos made by a non-T transguy and voice coach, but I can't seem to find them with the search function. Anyone else know this voice coach's name or remember the posts I'm talking about?
Yeah it will change. I personally know several singers, people in bands (with singing) or people who sing (as solos) who are trans. I am pretty sure that losing your singing voice temporarily may be pretty common. Of course people have been known to go on very low T doses, which might help, just don't see you doing this. I like to sing, though I am not *that* good at it, and I am pretty hoarse, but I don't think extended hoarseness is common. I have started being able to sing again, after about 4-5 months of not being able to sing at all.
I personally have a theory that some of the lose of abilities is preventable by working on breath control. I had a pretty nice voice at about 3 months where a lot of people lost theirs. The difference is that I can play the recorder and Indian flute which require breath control to get to the lower notes. I think practice helps "maintain" your voice, but obviously it is not going to be soprano-- and very few guys are alto.
There's a young guy named Ro, who I think does more rap, but he is able to sing. He has some advice on his youtube channel I think.
--Jay
Anyone can sing across a huge range, and by that, I mean around four octaves. It's just a matter of studying a technique that focuses on tension release (SLS, Jaime Vendera's Isolation Method, etc.).
Source: XY, "professionally trained" singer for the better part of a season. I can bring my purest head tones past a C6, but I never practiced hard enough to find a coordination that adds chestier resonance across the higher spectrum. I quit when I came out as trans, as training a male voice is a bit pointless. Maybe I'll come back to it in a few years, but mid-transition just isn't the time.
Well @Horizon is more professional than I have ever been. I have sung in a choir a couple times, and I like to sing to entertain myself. The people I know aren't professional on that level. I know a trans guy in a small band with 4 others, they sing blue grass that sort of thing. I am pretty sure he sings in the tenor range. I know a couple guys on youtube that have sung various more popular kinds of music. Skylarkeleven I know IRL. There's a young guy, I don't know him, Ryan Cassata, who isn't going on T primarily because of his voice.
You lose your voice for a bit, unless your voice changes a bit more gradually. You have to basically learn again is what I have noticed. I'll just write this, don't think you would be interested but maybe someone else will, you go on a super low T dose (usually with t-cream or gel, though it can be done with injections) and the voice changes VERY very gradually. Of course, in the end T kind of makes the decisions.
I might want to join the Gay Men's Choir when my voice stabilizes, they are fine with trans guys joining afaik.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on November 28, 2013, 01:21:36 PM
Well @Horizon is more professional than I have ever been. I have sung in a choir a couple times, and I like to sing to entertain myself. The people I know aren't professional on that level. I know a trans guy in a small band with 4 others, they sing blue grass that sort of thing. I am pretty sure he sings in the tenor range. I know a couple guys on youtube that have sung various more popular kinds of music. Skylarkeleven I know IRL. There's a young guy, I don't know him, Ryan Cassata, who isn't going on T primarily because of his voice.
You lose your voice for a bit, unless your voice changes a bit more gradually. You have to basically learn again is what I have noticed. I'll just write this, don't think you would be interested but maybe someone else will, you go on a super low T dose (usually with t-cream or gel, though it can be done with injections) and the voice changes VERY very gradually. Of course, in the end T kind of makes the decisions.
I might want to join the Gay Men's Choir when my voice stabilizes, they are fine with trans guys joining afaik.
--Jay
I never had to learn or train myself to sing that was a God givin gift just like my dancing skills and the ability to play multiple instruments I know bio guys who could sing before and after puberty, What's the difference?
Quote from: Brandon on November 28, 2013, 01:29:26 PM
I never had to learn or train myself to sing that was a God givin gift just like my dancing skills and the ability to play multiple instruments I know bio guys who could sing before and after puberty, What's the difference?
Not many guys can sing as well after their voice breaks, or in such a desirable range. I knew several guys who had the same thing happen to them, and they were trained a lot. My school liked to throw money at weird things like swimming and singing over academics. If I remember right their voices were breaking in about 2010, and they were starting to sing well, but not amazing like before, in 2012 when I left.
The majority of the time our voices have spent a larger time in the female range, which might have an effect on what it's like once it breaks. I'm not interested in singing so I don't know how accurate what I say on this topic is. I haven't sung for years, except for one or twice in the chapel congregation.
Here's the closest analogy I can think of.
I play reed instruments: clarinet, saxophone of various sizes and to various levels. At one point in learning Bb soprano clarinet I switched from soft, mushy, easy-to-play beginner reeds to stiffer, squeakier, richer grown-up reeds. Actually, it made my range grow into higher notes and improved resonance throughout so not exactly the same but pretty close.
It wasn't like learning to play again from scratch, but I sounded horrible for a couple weeks. Make that a couple months, and that's what T does to your voice. Richer resonance, much lower floor, squeeeaky.
A lot of guys give up on singing during this time. There's nothing that says you have to. Your voice will be different, but still you. Just you as a guy. I can't promise anything, but I do not think that's what you will consider "ruined."
Quote from: musicofthenight on November 28, 2013, 07:01:44 PM
Here's the closest analogy I can think of.
I play reed instruments: clarinet, saxophone of various sizes and to various levels. At one point in learning Bb soprano clarinet I switched from soft, mushy, easy-to-play beginner reeds to stiffer, squeakier, richer grown-up reeds. Actually, it made my range grow into higher notes and improved resonance throughout so not exactly the same but pretty close.
It wasn't like learning to play again from scratch, but I sounded horrible for a couple weeks. Make that a couple months, and that's what T does to your voice. Richer resonance, much lower floor, squeeeaky.
A lot of guys give up on singing during this time. There's nothing that says you have to. Your voice will be different, but still you. Just you as a guy. I can't promise anything, but I do not think that's what you will consider "ruined."
Well I don't think it will be messed up I think it will still be their considering I practic singing alot, But I play trumpet from what my band teacher said helps your voic that goes with any instrument you blow into that's only if you can sing though
Well, I'll be honest with you - I sang professionally for a number of years before being on T, but after my voice changed it has been a struggle. I can no longer hit the same high notes as I could before, but my range for the lower notes has become phenomenal.
For the first year after starting T - I will be up front with you, my voice was terrible. It was all over the place and would randomly just cut out when trying to sing - as in, I would open my mouth and my voice would start to come out then would just go silent. I was stuck singing in a range of two octaves (and the upper end was a struggle).
The weirdest thing happened to me recently - I am at 2 years on T and my voice has had another drop after I had a cold. Now I am singing in a BASS range which I had read of guys doing, but honestly doubted that it was really possible. My voice has also stopped "cutting out" and squeaking, so now I am able to sing long, clear notes again - just in a very, very deep range.
Quote from: Kreuzfidel on November 28, 2013, 10:17:59 PM
Well, I'll be honest with you - I sang professionally for a number of years before being on T, but after my voice changed it has been a struggle. I can no longer hit the same high notes as I could before, but my range for the lower notes has become phenomenal.
For the first year after starting T - I will be up front with you, my voice was terrible. It was all over the place and would randomly just cut out when trying to sing - as in, I would open my mouth and my voice would start to come out then would just go silent. I was stuck singing in a range of two octaves (and the upper end was a struggle).
The weirdest thing happened to me recently - I am at 2 years on T and my voice has had another drop after I had a cold. Now I am singing in a BASS range which I had read of guys doing, but honestly doubted that it was really possible. My voice has also stopped "cutting out" and squeaking, so now I am able to sing long, clear notes again - just in a very, very deep range.
Well It's hard to believe that, that happens to everyone
Quote from: Brandon on November 28, 2013, 01:29:26 PM
I never had to learn or train myself to sing that was a God givin gift just like my dancing skills and the ability to play multiple instruments I know bio guys who could sing before and after puberty, What's the difference?
Well I have never trained my voice either. I just wasn't ever that serious. But voices are workable to an extent. I am pretty sure these aren't secrets but info that is fully available on the internet and so forth. There are people who work with speech therapists to train their SPEECH voices, so obviously it is doable. And it's common for singers to have voice coaches. But still I am pretty sure you could get the info FREE.
Training won't make it less great. But obviously you wouldn't be able to take it for granted that it is there. For instance, you could improve your ability to dance by study. It wouldn't make you a less amazing dancer. It might make you a better dancer. I know a guy who graduated in theater but could dance from age 2. He can now do flips and so on, while keeping a beat and so on.
There ARE trans guys that sing before and after T, but it usually takes us longer. The thing is that in bio guys the T starts off very low, slow, and steady. That's not usually what happens in trans guys. We want the changes and usually go thru what amounts to several years of puberty in one year. That's a LOT of stretching of the larynx that is hard on the voice.
That's why REALLY low doses can work with this OTOH, you take the very slow changes.
I don't think all bio guys are as good after T either,even with training. Obviously there is something quite lovely about the young voice before puberty. I think it's typical for guys on T to lose their voices for a certain length of time. I think I'm a baritone now which seems really odd being such a little dude. I think I'll have a pretty nice voice in a couple years, just by being patient. Don't know how it would compare with before.
--Jay
I was worried about the same thing, and for me, I not only didn't lose my singing voice, it actually seemed to help it. Granted there was some time in the first few months where my voice kept cracking, but now it's all settled down and I still have my voice, just lower octaves.
It won't ruin your voice, but it will be a significant amount of work to get your voice through the transition in good form. It won't be as easy or natural as it feels like it is now, in part because you actually HAVE done a lot of work since you were little to train your voice, even if you didn't realize that's what you were doing at the time, and your new voice will need training also.
I used to be a fairly good singer. I was in the top vocal ensembles in my high school and sang in college also. I started T several years after I stopped singing, and I took no trouble at all to take care of my voice or to get it back into shape. Because I didn't do any work on it, it is now A WRECK. My voice cracks in several places, although I haven't figured out where that is, and it feels like someone moved all my internal pitch-markers, so if I hear a C and try to sing a C that is not what comes out. If I started over and worked to rehabilitate my voice I'm sure I could do a lot better, but I have not done any work at all, so it is a mess and I no longer sing in public.
Well I have a God givin gift that I don't think is just gonna go away
Quote from: Brandon on December 01, 2013, 11:24:16 AM
Well I have a God givin gift that I don't think is just gonna go away
Why ask if you're not going to listen to everyone saying that they had to work to keep theirs after taking T? I'm honestly confused.
Quote from: AlexanderC on December 01, 2013, 12:00:40 PM
Why ask if you're not going to listen to everyone saying that they had to work to keep theirs after taking T? I'm honestly confused.
I only asked because I heard it from one guy from another forum, All I said was that if its God Givin I don't think you would literally suck after
Quote from: Brandon on December 01, 2013, 12:34:31 PM
I only asked because I heard it from one guy from another forum, All I said was that if its God Givin I don't think you would literally suck after
The problem is not your voice, but the dose of T most trans guys receive. Most trans guys (not exempting myself here, want a larger dose, as they don't really want to wait around 3-5 years for changes. If they were, they would not have such a hard time with their voices. There is a doctor in Phoenix who does a lower dose like this but all the guys are in a group that meets a couple times every week, so that they get to discuss it. It is VERY hard to do a gradual change like this. But it IS doable.
Your dose would be much more gradual and your voice would have more time to settle and change in a more natural way. Even some cis guys need to readjust to their voices post-T. But hey if you have all the answers why do you ask?
Were their voices perhaps not so God-given as yours'. That concept is pretty insulting.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on December 01, 2013, 03:20:58 PM
The problem is not your voice, but the dose of T most trans guys receive. Most trans guys (not exempting myself here, want a larger dose, as they don't really want to wait around 3-5 years for changes. If they were, they would not have such a hard time with their voices. There is a doctor in Phoenix who does a lower dose like this but all the guys are in a group that meets a couple times every week, so that they get to discuss it. It is VERY hard to do a gradual change like this. But it IS doable.
Your dose would be much more gradual and your voice would have more time to settle and change in a more natural way. Even some cis guys need to readjust to their voices post-T. But hey if you have all the answers why do you ask?
Were their voices perhaps not so God-given as yours'. That concept is pretty insulting.
--Jay
Everything I say gets tooken out of Contex but ok, I didn't say anything about reajusting I understand that yes we do but I'm saying would I suck butt after T
Imagine driving the same car for 18 years ( your voice) You know everything about that car. you know how to make it shine, you know how what makes it the best it can be. Now imagine swapping that car for a different one. ( Your new T voice ) you'd have to relearn every inch of it like your old car to make it all it can be again. No one is saying you are going to suck or be a horrible singer but it will be a learning process for you to be able to sing when your voice lowers.
Another things is that it could take years for your voice to finally settle so it will require a lot of adjusting and re-adjusting.
I've been singing since I was young and now 3 months on T I have had to "re-learn" how to sing some songs that I love just because my voice is in a lower range that I am not used to.
Quote from: thatboyfresh on December 01, 2013, 05:14:00 PM
Imagine driving the same car for 18 years ( your voice) You know everything about that car. you know how to make it shine, you know how what makes it the best it can be. Now imagine swapping that car for a different one. ( Your new T voice ) you'd have to relearn every inch of it like your old car to make it all it can be again. No one is saying you are going to suck or be a horrible singer but it will be a learning process for you to be able to sing when your voice lowers.
Another things is that it could take years for your voice to finally settle so it will require a lot of adjusting and re-adjusting.
I've been singing since I was young and now 3 months on T I have had to "re-learn" how to sing some songs that I love just because my voice is in a lower range that I am not used to.
That's a perfect analogy for it. Figuring out your new range can be difficult but it's not like every aspect of your ability to sing just disappears because your voice dropped an octave. If that were the case, male singers that hit puberty during their careers would all be screwed. It's really no different from that at all, T is essentially putting you through puberty all over again, just the guys version. Your voice will crack and piss you off for a while but toward the 7 month-1 year mark (I think, can't remember for sure) it levels off and you can figure out your new range.
Quote from: thatboyfresh on December 01, 2013, 05:14:00 PM
Imagine driving the same car for 18 years ( your voice) You know everything about that car. you know how to make it shine, you know how what makes it the best it can be. Now imagine swapping that car for a different one. ( Your new T voice ) you'd have to relearn every inch of it like your old car to make it all it can be again. No one is saying you are going to suck or be a horrible singer but it will be a learning process for you to be able to sing when your voice lowers.
Another things is that it could take years for your voice to finally settle so it will require a lot of adjusting and re-adjusting.
I've been singing since I was young and now 3 months on T I have had to "re-learn" how to sing some songs that I love just because my voice is in a lower range that I am not used to.
That is a great analogy! I don't have any experience since I've not been on T, but I've been singing all my life and did my undergrad degree in vocal performance as a high soprano. My worry about going on T is losing that higher range, but I wonder if any trans men have been able to train as countertenors. That would be my dream outcome because I'm quite happy with my singing voice, but how awesome would it be to have a tenor range and a treble range!
Well countertenor is quite a high voice. I had a low alto voice before T, when my voice stabilizes which isn't too often now, but I am easily singing baritone.
Some guys after T are going to be in that range. I know guys with fairly high voices.
--Jay