I've listened to some of the voice transformations on here and quite frankly it's blown me away. Should I go for this too. Here's my problem with it. I'm in my mid 50's and whilst my voice is sort of OK, I don't get mis-gendered on the phone or anything like that (unless I have a cold!!), its no where near as good as the girls who have had the VFS. The other thing is what do I say to work colleagues/friends if I come back from Korea with a different voice. I had a similar issue when I had FFS but I told them I'd had a facelift which seemed to be accepted. I can't think of any sort of reason/excuse to explain a voice change.
I've been stealth for such a long time and I couldn't bear to be outed by myself. I've tried to improve myself and be the best it's possible to be and the VFS would take me to another level, but is it worth the risk.
Please help me come to a decision.
The right answer is the one you feel is right. Are you OK with your current voice? Or do you want to change it? It's as simple as that, but also so difficult.
You can simply say that you had some throat surgery done to take care of some issues that were affecting your voice.
People have throat surgery for various reasons. One example is polyps that might form on the vocal cords and cause voice issues.
It seems clear to me from VFS that although one's voice may sound differently after surgery, it's not a voice that one cannot obtain before said surgery. And if you've been using your current voice for many years, all the surgery will do is make it less tiresome to reach your higher pitch. You've done 90% of the hard work already. It gives one more of a consistency in regard to pitch. It won't transform your voice into something radically different that won't sound like you. And in that regard, I don't think you should worry too much about it. Your 'old' voice should be available post-op too.
Quote from: LizMarie on November 29, 2013, 02:52:34 AM
You can simply say that you had some throat surgery done to take care of some issues that were affecting your voice.
People have throat surgery for various reasons. One example is polyps that might form on the vocal cords and cause voice issues.
I second this! First thing that came to my mind was a vocal chord tremor. Not too sure if that's the scientific name for it but if someone told me they had that, I would simply say "Oh my! I'm glad you got that taken care of!"
I agree with Nicolette, so far what I'm finding is that my new voice sounds remarkably similar to my pre-op "high" female voice did. It is softer and more natural sounding now, but overall it still sounds like me I think. I'm going to continue doing recordings as I recover so I'll have a better idea once I can actually talk again, but that's what I'm finding so far, and I remember Jenny saying the same thing too.
SarahR, you sound fantastic so far. Well done.
Saskia. I have been preparing this option for a while now and some issues played into my hands. I actually did have voice prolems for a while now. Speaking in my present voice for the past 15 years strained my voice over time and I developed issues. I have to cough and clear my throat a lot, I sometimes sound raspy. And I kind of pointed towards that at work, that I do have these issues, cursing about it and using herbal throat pills a lot. Then I told them I need to go to a voice exam, which was actually true. Then i told them the rsult of the voice exam which was that my vocal chords do not come together in some parts of the voicebox. I told them that I got a prescription for voice training but if that doe snot work, they may have to do a surgical correction by closing that gap in the vocal chords to allow me to speak again without straining. Now if I ever do this procedure, they even know exactly what will be done and its not a secret at all. I can even ask for being off work for a while to get this done and choose with them a date that fits the no-speaking period. The only thing they dont know is basically what is the true background of me bein in this situation. I admit, it was a bit things falling into my lap there, as I expected some other issues with my voice or even none at all, but they basically found somethig that can easily explain why I am getting exactly the procedure done at Yesons.
So maybe you could pull off something similar?
Thank you all so much for your input and suggestions. Some of the suggested reasons for voice change would, I'm sure, be believed and accepted.
My partner is completely against this operation and goes ballistic when I even mention it which has really surprised me. So being able to do this would cause a lot of problems and worries. She worried about me when I had FFS and I think she doesn't want all the stress of another operation in a far off country again. I did explain there was no cutting as such but she just won't listen.
I would need to have her onboard to be able to go otherwise I can't do it.
In the meantime I bought the 2 Eva apps (breathe and pitch) to check out how my voice is. If it's within the normal female range (like it was when I was in my 20's) I'll have to just accept my voice is OK, even though I can't stand listening to myself.
Again thank you so much
Try analyzing it with praat, its free and there is a tutorial in the forum.
Everyone i know is very much against VFS. Its because people are scared we loose our voices they have gotten accustomed to or get hoarse or too high pitched or breathy in the end. We are identified by our voices - people know who we are on the phone even they dont see us- They are afraid that this would go away. AFAIK it does not with glottoplasty (Yeson and others like him). My best friend says she will support me if I do it but she still wants me not to do it. My phoniater and voice therapist both are opposed, though they admitted that it is possible that I could benefit from it in some way as I have that dysfunktion developed. this surprised me...
Yes your voice will sound like "you" to people who already know you. This is perhaps one of the greatest parts about this surgery compared to other methods of VFS like CTA and laryngoplasty where the difference can indeed sound like a completely different voice. The tonal difference is a subtle shift as Sarah mentioned :)
There really is no known risk from the procedure, unless you have had extensive dental work or don't have the strongest of teeth. Age does play a part into the risk in that regard.
So I'm going ahead with this. My partner is now going to come with me which I'm so pleased about - to have her support makes all the difference. I've emailed Yeson a couple of times but not got a reply (are they normally like this), so tomorrow I'm going to try to call them, I'd like to go mid April next year.
I'll use one of the reasons you girls suggested to give to my employer. I'm happy to have made my decision = Thanks for your advice and help
Saskia
That's great to hear Saskia! Remember to follow all of their instructions and you won't be disappointed :)
As far as communication, Jessie usually got back to me within 24-36 hours, mainly due to the time zone difference. I know there were a couple times it took longer, but no longer than a few days. I'm sure she's getting busier these days with the influx of people going to Yeson, but I'd say double check that you have the right email address, check your Spam/Junk folder, and if everything looks good then just give them a call like you say.
Just a little update -
Got a reply from Yeson today. So Jessie advised me to contact her again end of Jan for the op in April.
Today at work found out I might have to go to Malaysia to give some training for some new colleagues (a week of non-stop talking) and guess when I will need to go - yes March/April time. Grrrrrr
So if this training comes off I'll have to do the VFS afterwards. Right now I'm hoping the training is cancelled even though I really like Malaysia and under normal circumstance would be excited to be going back again.
Just a little update.
I think these are my dates. I confirmed with Jesse this morning
Tue, April 21st: Consultation and Examination
Wed, April 23rd: Operation
Wed, April 30th: Follow-up
I just need to complete those pre-op questions and send off next week. Also the training I'm supposed to be giving in Malaysia will be end of March so no issues now, and my partner is still on board and will be coming with me.
I briefly mentioned to my boss about the surgery (although not the real reason) and said I will not be able to speak properly for a while after. He just joked that it would be quieter in my office.
So just need to sit back and wait. I'll book the hotel in the next month or so and the flights.
Saskia
Sounds great. Isnt that the time Amy Berlin will be there as well? You two could meet...
What excuse did you use for your boss?
Oh and did you see what Amy is doing for a pre/post recording? I think its cool. Gives people who will do it in the future a really good impresison of what is possible there. Maybe if you want you could do something similar and do various recordings for comparison. I find these pre/post recordings very great help for others who consider this.
Greetings
I just booked my flights. 2 return tickets to Seoul (Incheon) 2200 Euros. Now it really feels like I'm going.
The hotels are quite expensive. Will spend the next few days researching where we can stay thats reasonably priced and close to sightseeing stuff.
Dear Saskia,
Quote from: Saskia on January 08, 2014, 02:14:10 PM
2 return tickets to Seoul (Incheon) 2200 Euros.
This is getting more expensive by the day. Only last week, my partner and I paid 1800 round-trip for 2 passengers.
Quote from: Saskia on January 08, 2014, 02:14:10 PM
The hotels are quite expensive. Will spend the next few days researching where we can stay thats reasonably priced and close to sightseeing stuff.
Check out http://www.philhouse.co.kr/ (http://www.philhouse.co.kr/). Jessie recommended them and we booked our stay there. They're self-catering apartments, so if all four of us were staying there, we could have even less stress and save more money by cooking for four people.
BTW, I've sent out a few emails to the relevant jazz clubs in Seoul. If we're lucky, they'll let me have a night, piano solo. I won't be able to talk, but I sure could play!
Take care,
Amy
Oh so you two or four really will meet there? Marvellous :) - Makes me wish I could join you there, sounds like you will be having fun. But that flight is not cheap at all, wow. It was cheaper to fly to Thailand from here including a week in a hotel for vacation once. So i guess I will not join you just for the fun of it... ;)
Ah by the way Amy - how is your singer friend doing - you said you had a friend who is a professional singer and who went to Yesons for this surgery some weeks ago now? Is she doing well and sounding as great as the others here already?
Quote from: Saskia on January 08, 2014, 02:14:10 PM
I just booked my flights. 2 return tickets to Seoul (Incheon) 2200 Euros. Now it really feels like I'm going.
The hotels are quite expensive. Will spend the next few days researching where we can stay thats reasonably priced and close to sightseeing stuff.
I got the last 2 seats on Korean Air. From where I live there are only 2 airlines flying direct, so when I checked yesterday afternoon there was only 2 seats left, I thought I better book them quick. I was surprised at how quickly it was getting booked up.
Amy - I'll email you my flight details. I'm having to be there earlier than I wanted due to there being no flights left.
On the hotels front, whilst the phil-house looks ok, I think we want a nice standard of hotel but which is close to tourist areas. We don't want to stay in business areas or where there is not much close by. We want to spend max about 100 Euros per night. How much is the Phil-House by the way, out of curiosity.
Good luck, Amy, with the Seoul jazz clubs, would be great to see you play.
Anjaq - yes the flights are really expensive, when I looked before Christmas I was getting 800/900 Euros per ticket. Wished I'd booked then.
More news to follow.
Dear Anja, Saskia,
Quote from: anjaq on January 08, 2014, 06:51:48 PM
Ah by the way Amy - how is your singer friend doing - you said you had a friend who is a professional singer and who went to Yesons for this surgery some weeks ago now?
She's not singing for a living, but she's good at it. Well, considering she's 6 weeks postop, she's doing fine. No miracles yet as far as singing is concerned – of course not, it'll be another 2 weeks before she's even allowed to try – but her speaking voice sounds much improved. So all in all, her case parallels the other consistently good results we've heard from Yeson on this forum.
Quote from: Saskia on January 09, 2014, 12:12:45 AM
From where I live there are only 2 airlines flying direct, so when I checked yesterday afternoon there was only 2 seats left, I thought I better book them quick.
There are no direct flights from Berlin, so that wasn't a factor, since we'd have one changeover anyway.
Quote from: Saskia on January 09, 2014, 12:12:45 AM
On the hotels front, whilst the phil-house looks ok, I think we want a nice standard of hotel but which is close to tourist areas. We don't want to stay in business areas or where there is not much close by. We want to spend max about 100 Euros per night. How much is the Phil-House by the way, out of curiosity.
It's quite a bit cheaper: 60,000 wons per night (approx. 41.50 euros). It's on the north side of the river, and there appears to be a good connection to the city centre by metro line 5 (purple) – 12 stops to Gwanghwamun Gate. Metro tickets reportedly are inexpensive and the service reliable, so I find it quite a good compromise not to be smack dab in the middle of where everything's happening, especially since with Mt. Achasan, there seems to be quite a scenic park within walking distance of Phil House (google for photos). The only downside I can think of is that it takes 2 changeovers at Gunja and Konkuk Univ. metro stations (or a significant detour of 6 extra stops) to get to Yeson. Still, even this trip (13 stops) should be entirely feasible within the half hour.
Have a great day,
Amy
QuoteAnjaq - yes the flights are really expensive, when I looked before Christmas I was getting 800/900 Euros per ticket. Wished I'd booked then.
Oh good to know - I guess if it comes to it, I would have to consider planning far enough ahead.
Quote from: AmyBerlin on January 09, 2014, 01:07:40 AM
She's not singing for a living, but she's good at it. Well, considering she's 6 weeks postop, she's doing fine. No miracles yet as far as singing is concerned – of course not, it'll be another 2 weeks before she's even allowed to try – but her speaking voice sounds much improved. So all in all, her case parallels the other consistently good results we've heard from Yeson on this forum.
Ah ok, I misunderstood then - I somehow had in the mind she does it professionally. Of course she will not sinf 6 weeks post op LOL - We know that so far. Some more months to go.... But as long as her voice is as great as the others we heard so far from that stage of the healing - its cool. She is about parallel to Sarah then, plusminus 1-2 weeks? Will she write about it or record anything somewhere in the web? Or is she keeping it more to herself, which totally is understandable given the modd in Germany :) (I mean even if you have a perfect result as some here have, they will always find something to nitpick and return to the fixed belief that VFS is not helping and that the best voices are those who did only voice training and no surgery - its like a mantra that cannot be broken or disturbed by experiences so the experiences have to be invalidated)
yikes !!!!!!!!!!!
One week tomorrow I'll be on the plane to Seoul. It's come round so quickly, but I'm so anxious and nervous. Of course I'm looking forward to having a better voice (even though family have told me I don't need to have this done).
I think I'm worried about what the voice will sound like after and what my work colleagues will say. I've prepared my team as much as possible and told them that my voice will ''possibly'' change after my throat operation. I've had to tell some small lies to cover myself but I really hope I don't out myself by having this done (it would be quite ironic if that happened).
I hope I don't slip up and say something in the 3 weeks or so after the op, as not being able to speak for that length of time will be difficult.
I'm also a little worried about the pre-examination and what tests they will do. With FFS I knew exactly what to expect and none of it was a surprise, but with VFS alot of it is still unknown.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to being in Asia again, to trying out the food and to meeting Amy who's going to be there at the same time as me.
I'll keep you all posted.
Dear Saskia,
you're not the only one excited, you bet! Although we're leaving 3 days later than you, we're already in full preparation mode. We're so looking forward to exploring a new country!
As for the no-speaking thing, I've made arrangements with my clients that they can expect me to play beautifully as ever, but that I won't say a word. They were very understanding, and I will have my first job on May 3 in the evening (we arrive back here May 1). From then on it's going to be a light-to-normal work schedule until May 28, when a friend from the States will come over to play a few concerts together. But I should be able to talk again by then, over 5 weeks post-surgically.
As I've visited a phoniatrist here in Berlin before to make sure nothing's wrong with my voice that could preclude surgery, and also to be informed of the surgical options here in Germany (which I detailed in my VFS thread), I'm pretty sure of what's to come. The laryngoscopy isn't bad at all. Just be sure Dr. Kim uses an approach through the nose! For me, the through-the-mouth approach triggers my gag reflex.
Hugs,
Amy
The normal speed laryngoscopy is done through the nose, but the high speed (super slow motion) stroboscope laryngoscopy is done down the throat. He didn't touch any of my throat however, so no gag reflex. He's good ;)
Congrats Saskia and Amy! So cool that you guys are going to actually meet each other!!
Hey soon to be Seoul visitors!
Day after my op here. I hardly feel any trouble in my throat at all, even before starting the 7 day medication this morning. At the end of the op day, I walked back to my apartment as I felt good enough to...not what I was expecting before that day, I had so much nerves going around in my head. Weather is really nice right now - fairly clear air, comfortable temperatures and lots of sun.
As everyone says, Dr Kim is a really nice person and spends a good amount of time going over matters to you and when I saw his work on my cords before I left, I was so impressed seeing how neat his work was on me, all I could do was beem a big smile and grab his hand with both mine. They measured me at 145hz chest voice before and Dr Kim said I should just speak with chest voice in future after healing, as if I use a head voice I might be going too high.
So I am having a chill out day in my apartment today as my travelling companion is feeling under the weather, then lots of sight seeing and shopping from tomorrow onwards.
Quick few tips from me, get a wifi egg prebooked to collect at ICN when u arrive. Very handy that was in room after op with a smart phone/iPad..when u have hours of time to while away, plus with walking around using google maps etc. My throat was bit rough for first few hours after waking up from op, but having the icecream down the throat first was bliss for it.
Good luck Amy and Saskia.
Dani x
Hey Daniella,
congratulations on your surgery! I'm really glad you had such a positive experience!
Quote from: Daniella on April 10, 2014, 04:08:51 AM
even before starting the 7 day medication this morning.
what is the 7 day medication? *curious*
Quote from: Daniella on April 10, 2014, 04:08:51 AM
Quick few tips from me, get a wifi egg prebooked to collect at ICN when u arrive.
How do you do that? And wouldn't a prepaid SIM card (if my cell phone works in S. Korea) or a rental phone (if it doesn't) be a much more sensible choice?
Quote from: Daniella on April 10, 2014, 04:08:51 AM
Good luck Amy and Saskia.
Thanks :-)
Amy
Thanks Jenny and everyone.
Daniella, really pleased everything went well for you and thanks for the tips. I'm just going to make do with Skype for calls, although I will also have my works cell phone with me for emergencies.
Amy - Skype me when you arrive so we can meet up for dinner and have a safe and pleasant trip.
XX
Hi Amy
Here's the link for wifi egg reserving.. They also do cell phone rental
http://roaming.kt.com/renewal/eng/reserve/reserve.asp
As I can't do regular phone calls.. obviously.. I thought this best thing to use - IM aps over internet for free and that way the person with me can also share easy wifi on foot too.
The medication: antibiotics, expectorants, digestant, antipyretic analgesic and some horrible yucky syrup (helps reduce cough). I hate the syrup!! Basically a bag of pills after each meal, till I go back next week for final check up and Botox.
Long day on foot today across underground, visiting the Seoul tower and then hours across the Myeong-dong shops. SO many shops! The cat cafe was my favourite time out there, as I miss my home kitties.
Dani x
Update from Seoul. We arrived safely after a long flight from Europe and have had a few days now to look around. We are staying at Jongno which is a good central location for zillions of shops and eating places. The Kwangchang market is 5 mins walk away, and has all sorts of local specialities. The locals are very friendly and want to know where we are from. We've even had complete strangers saying hello and welcome to Korea (how nice is that)
Anyway yesterday I had my examination at Yeson. Everyone there is super sweet and helpful especially Dr Kim who explained everything very clearly and of course Jessie.
My vocal chord length is somewhere between female and male and my current pitch is gender neutral with a value of 170. He said that I should achieve 240 after surgery which is completely in the female range (yipee). However not all good news, I have assymetry and a bad vocal chord tremor. This explains my voice getting hoarse after a certain period of time. I will have a botox injection to help out but may need further ones after if I can't control this tremor myself by lowering the pitch. Some of the examination procedures were a little tricky.
Tomorrow at 9am is when I have the surgery. So no eating or drinking after 8pm tonight.
Thats all for now. Today is the last day with my current voice.
I'll do another update after tomorrow.
Quote from: Saskia on April 21, 2014, 08:21:56 PM
Update from Seoul. We arrived safely after a long flight from Europe and have had a few days now to look around. We are staying at Jongno which is a good central location for zillions of shops and eating places. The Kwangchang market is 5 mins walk away, and has all sorts of local specialities. The locals are very friendly and want to know where we are from. We've even had complete strangers saying hello and welcome to Korea (how nice is that)
Anyway yesterday I had my examination at Yeson. Everyone there is super sweet and helpful especially Dr Kim who explained everything very clearly and of course Jessie.
My vocal chord length is somewhere between female and male and my current pitch is gender neutral with a value of 170. He said that I should achieve 240 after surgery which is completely in the female range (yipee). However not all good news, I have assymetry and a bad vocal chord tremor. This explains my voice getting hoarse after a certain period of time. I will have a botox injection to help out but may need further ones after if I can't control this tremor myself by lowering the pitch. Some of the examination procedures were a little tricky.
Tomorrow at 9am is when I have the surgery. So no eating or drinking after 8pm tonight.
Thats all for now. Today is the last day with my current voice.
I'll do another update after tomorrow.
Oof. So exciting! Please do keep us updated!
Glad to hear your trip has been wonderful so far :)
Post Op Update.
Could hardly sleep last night and gave up trying at 2:30am. We arrived at Yeson 40 mins early and waited for everthing to happen. Amy was already there and we wished her well before she had her op.
I got my Yeson pyjamas on, saw the anaesthatist and was fastened up to the drip. A short while later Dr Kim came around for the consent and explained everything and possible things that might happen.
At 10:45 they came for me and I walked to the operating theatre and laid on the table. I was connected up to the monitors and whilst doing so Dr Kim gently held my finger. The Oxygen mask was put on my face and after a few gulps the anaesthetic gas did it's job. The next thing I knew I was back in the recovery room being woken up - it was 12:15. I had a sore throat but that was all. I got thirsty and had a bit of phlegm build up (all as expected). After an hour or so they gave me water and some juices and after another hour a light lunch of Vanilla Ice cream (lovely and soothing) some porridge oats some very sickly sweet cakes and a yoghurt.
We had to hang around till after 6pm before we could get discharged. I had another inspection by Dr Kim and he showed me the pictures post op. I had 2 lots of sutures, one to cure the assymetry and the other for the shortening. He said everything looked good and normal.
Not talking or making any sounds is quite difficult. I didn't realize just how difficult until today.
Amy's op went well too, but she can tell you about her experience herself. It's been a pleasure to have met her and her partner.
We are here another week and travel home next Thursday.
If anyone is worried about travelling to South Korea and to Yeson, there is no need to be. The staff and Dr Kim are all lovely, and the country itself is safe and the people are friendly and helpful.
I'm so very curious how my voice is going to sound 6 months down the line.......................
Best wishes to all
Saskia
Quote from: Saskia on April 23, 2014, 05:34:41 AM
Post Op Update.
Could hardly sleep last night and gave up trying at 2:30am. We arrived at Yeson 40 mins early and waited for everthing to happen. Amy was already there and we wished her well before she had her op.
I got my Yeson pyjamas on, saw the anaesthatist and was fastened up to the drip. A short while later Dr Kim came around for the consent and explained everything and possible things that might happen.
At 10:45 they came for me and I walked to the operating theatre and laid on the table. I was connected up to the monitors and whilst doing so Dr Kim gently held my finger. The Oxygen mask was put on my face and after a few gulps the anaesthetic gas did it's job. The next thing I knew I was back in the recovery room being woken up - it was 12:15. I had a sore throat but that was all. I got thirsty and had a bit of phlegm build up (all as expected). After an hour or so they gave me water and some juices and after another hour a light lunch of Vanilla Ice cream (lovely and soothing) some porridge oats some very sickly sweet cakes and a yoghurt.
We had to hang around till after 6pm before we could get discharged. I had another inspection by Dr Kim and he showed me the pictures post op. I had 2 lots of sutures, one to cure the assymetry and the other for the shortening. He said everything looked good and normal.
Not talking or making any sounds is quite difficult. I didn't realize just how difficult until today.
Amy's op went well too, but she can tell you about her experience herself. It's been a pleasure to have met her and her partner.
We are here another week and travel home next Thursday.
If anyone is worried about travelling to South Korea and to Yeson, there is no need to be. The staff and Dr Kim are all lovely, and the country itself is safe and the people are friendly and helpful.
I'm so very curious how my voice is going to sound 6 months down the line.......................
Best wishes to all
Saskia
Yaay! Sounds like such a glowing review! So glad that both yours and Amy's op went so well. I am SO VERY excited for both of you!!
Your experience sounds like it parallels mine; traveling to S. Korea for this surgery is kind of a dream- Seoul is an amazing city and their staff is heartwarming, caring, and kind. I am no doubt going back to visit Seoul with some friends in the next year and a half :)
Anyway, try to get some rest (trust me I remember how hard this was) and drink flipping TONS of water. It will help if you get the urge to cough. Best of luck and keep us updated!
Can't wait to hear from Amy too!