I transitioned in the early 80s and a few years later changed jobs, at which time nobody I came into contact with on a day-to-day basis knew about my past. From then on I've lived a normal life. At the various jobs I have had over the years, including where I now work, nobody knows my past.
True, I've kept in touch with my two children and have an excellent relationship with them. However, My grandchildren don't know about my past, nor do my husband's family.
The point I am trying to make is that very few people know about my past. Recently, coming on sites like this for information regarding FFS (which I've since had), I came across the word "Stealth" and realised it referred to people just like me who prefer to live life as a natural-born woman as much as possible.
I recently saw the top endocrinologist in the UK and even told him I was in stealth and he understood it as referring to someone in my position.
However, I have since seen the term used on here by people who have not yet transitioned, one who said she wasn't able to wear nail varnish because she was in stealth. ???
I'm now confused. Lost in translation, perhaps?
Caroline
They again mean that nobody know. Simple as that.
I am nearly able to go stealth. Wld require a job change tho, so I am a bit torn.
I think the word stealth means different things to different people. I agree with Caroline's interpretation of the word where someone who has already transitioned successfully and nothing is mentioned of their male past. However, some see the term, when applied to transitioning as not telling anyone that they identify as a woman, dress indoors or take hormones for example, but still present as male on a daily basis. They are hidden away to the world, except, maybe on a forum such as this. And, for those that do, please don't take the pervious sentence as criticism. All of us do what we have to do. Just different ways of reaching our goals.
It may be that the difference in interpretation, particularly for us that are UK based, comes from the fact that most of us in the UK have to hide in plain sight in order to get the treatment we need. RLE (which for me included my name change as proof of starting RLE) prior to getting hormones or anything else through the NHS for example. :'( Not fun. Stealth to me, in this case would be hoping that no body notices (unlikely) and not telling anyone either. In the US, it is my understanding that people get HRT/treatments/therapy prior to starting RLE so 'go stealth' until they are convinced that they have a chance of 'passing'.
I may be completely wrong though. ;D
Quote from: nikkit72 on December 07, 2013, 05:05:39 AM
I think the word stealth means different things to different people. I agree with Caroline's interpretation of the word where someone who has already transitioned successfully and nothing is mentioned of their male past. However, some see the term, when applied to transitioning as not telling anyone that they identify as a woman, dress indoors or take hormones for example, but still present as male on a daily basis. They are hidden away to the world, except, maybe on a forum such as this. And, for those that do, please don't take the pervious sentence as criticism. All of us do what we have to do. Just different ways of reaching our goals.
It may be that the difference in interpretation, particularly for us that are UK based, comes from the fact that most of us in the UK have to hide in plain sight in order to get the treatment we need. RLE (which for me included my name change as proof of starting RLE) prior to getting hormones or anything else through the NHS for example. :'( Not fun. Stealth to me, in this case would be hoping that no body notices (unlikely) and not telling anyone either. In the US, it is my understanding that people get HRT/treatments/therapy prior to starting RLE so 'go stealth' until they are convinced that they have a chance of 'passing'.
I may be completely wrong though. ;D
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes that now makes perfect sense. I haven't looked through any of my previous posts yet, but no doubt I have mentioned being in stealth and our American cousins may have got the wrong impression. It's only with medics and on this site and the UK Angels site that I might even mention it, so I will bear that in mind that using the word stealth here on Susan's is not necessarily the correct term for someone living full-time as a female but not telling anyone.
I wonder what is the correct term? Can anyone tell me?
Caroline
now I'm confused I always thought stealth was living female just not mentioning your past as male.
It is really simple :)
In one case, the person does not tell that she was not born a female. Like, stealth life :).
In the other, she does not tell that she is transitioning. Like, stealth transition :).
I am falling under the latter group, but if anyone would ask if I am trans, I would not deny anything. So that is like part-time stealth or smth? (just wanted to bring some more confusion, sorry ;) )
thanks, sounds better
I'd like to live my life as woman, but I am sort of pre-transition. I go to work in guy mode and my MTF GID situation is secret. I'm in a stealth mode. If I wore nail polish, I'd have some splaining to do. Caroline is living in stealth mode. She presents as a CIS woman. Her past is mostly a secret. So yeah- they are almost opposite situations, meanings. I'd love to trade my stealth for her stealth.
i think your fine. a woman is aloud to have secrets. and when you get married you and your husband share each others secrets 100% and watch each others backs. everyone else just doesn't need to know.
Quote from: Gina_Z on December 07, 2013, 11:10:25 AM
I'd like to live my life as woman, but I am sort of pre-transition. I go to work in guy mode and my MTF GID situation is secret. I'm in a stealth mode. If I wore nail polish, I'd have some splaining to do. Caroline is living in stealth mode. She presents as a CIS woman. Her past is mostly a secret. So yeah- they are almost opposite situations, meanings. I'd love to trade my stealth for her stealth.
Hi Gina,
Thanks for your comment. I must admit after all these years I take a lot for granted.
I have a friend whom I have only known for a couple years because she had just gone through with FFS and I wanted to pick her brain, and a very fine brain she has. She has been very helpful in so many ways, one of which is advising me to get off the hormone Premarin which is not very good for us but it was prescribed to me at Charing Cross Hospital in London when I was told I would be taking them for life. 34 years after starting on them I am now on Progynova, thanks to her advising me to see the top endocrinologist whom I saw last month. He recommended my GP change my prescription.
Sorry, I digress. The point I was coming to is that she is a couple of years younger than me and had her op less than two years ago. She says she is envious of me starting earlier and also the fact that I have been working in quite a good profession continuously for all those years without people knowing about my past. I must admit I had not really appreciated what I had achieved.
However, if your age is anything like your avatar, I'm envious of your youth, but sorry, I wouldn't trade my stealth!
Best wishes for the rest of your life.
Caroline
Quote from: Caroline2000 on December 07, 2013, 04:03:56 AM
I'm now confused. Lost in translation, perhaps?
Caroline
Kia Ora Caroline,
It's not going to change, trans-people at all stages are going to continue to use this "
under the radar" term...
I had/have the same problem trying to understand some posts where the word 'stealth' was/is used... :icon_confused:
However it might be a good idea for forum use, for members if they choose to use the term stealth-(bearing in mind some don't) to use something like a simple prefix before the word stealth, example
BFT-stealth (Before Full Transition Stealth) AT or PT-stealth (After/Post Transition Stealth)...
Perhaps Susan's should have a competition to come up with a simple prefix to put before "stealth" to end the confusion...
Abbreviations do have a habit of catching on...
BTW... I'm PT "S" stealth= Post Transition Semi-stealth-for the most part having the luxury of going about my business unchallenged, but at the same time quite comfortable disclosing my past should the need arise... Whilst some see themselves as PT"D" stealth =Post Transition Deep-stealth - also going about their business unchallenged but for
safety reasons(possibly having a justifiable fear for their personal safety ie living in a transphobic environment) not wishing for others to know anything about their past life...
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Anatta on December 07, 2013, 02:24:26 PM
However it might be a good idea for forum use, for members if they choose to use the term stealth-(bearing in minesome don't) to use something like a simple prefix before the word stealth, example BFT-stealth (Before Full Transition Stealth) AT or PT-stealth (After/Post Transition Stealth)...
Perhaps Susan's should have a competition to come up with a simple prefix to put before "stealth" to end the confusion...
Abbreviations do have a habit of catching on...
BTW... I'm PT "S" stealth= Post Transition Semi-stealth-for the most part having the luxury of going about my business unchallenged, but at the same time quite comfortable disclosing my past should the need arise... Whilst some see themselves as PT"D" stealth =Post Transition Deep-stealth - also going about their business unchallenged but for safety reasons(possibly having a justifiable fear for their personal safety ie living in a transphobic environment) not wishing for others to know anything about their past life...
Gotta love all that labelling and labels :).
Unless... if You, Madam, were actually sarcastic... then You just made an excellent post :) :) :)
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on December 07, 2013, 02:28:39 PM
Gotta love all that labelling and labels :).
Unless... if You, Madam, were actually sarcastic... then You just made an excellent post :) :) :)
Kia Ora Emily,
::) Part serious...Part sarcastic ...But don't ask me which is which ;) ;D
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Anatta on December 07, 2013, 02:32:58 PM
Kia Ora Emily,
::) Part serious...Part sarcastic ...But don't ask me which is which ;) ;D
Metta Zenda :)
I
was confused, now I'm just completely baffled. I'm not getting any younger, you know. I'll end up having to pull out a list of acronyms just to be able to understand what you girls are talking about. ???
Rather than stealth, I've spoken with my handlers, and we'll use the phrase 'pre-transition'. If I was currently in transition, I'd be more out and not hiding who I am so much. Dang. That doesn't work so well when you're transitioning and part time girl mode and also part time guy mode, which is what a lot of transitioners do. 'Stealth' means something is unseen. So if you're tucking.... I don't know. Confusing. I am going back to the Joy of Collecting Shoes thread, to get my head straight. ???
Quote from: Caroline2000 on December 07, 2013, 04:05:39 PM
I was confused, now I'm just completely baffled. I'm not getting any younger, you know. I'll end up having to pull out a list of acronyms just to be able to understand what you girls are talking about. ???
Kia Ora Caroline,
Ok, how about the acronym BISTP (blending in sans trans-prefix) ;) ;D
Trans-people are in every sense of the word Con fusing ???
Con=to trick/persuade...
Fusion = joining two or more things together to form a single entity. ;)
Metta Zenda :)
Hi Caroline,
My definition of stealth is the same as yours. Sometimes it feels like people try to make it confusing.
I believe that stealth should apply to those living in their real gender and who are not telling the world.
I am a woman who is forced to work as a man until I can pass. I call that "boy mode" and leave it, and my tears, there.
Jen
I think some people simply confuse " stealth" with "closeted"
I just think that if someone is a woman they will learn to be a woman, which means keeping their mouth shut. Now if they are a trans person they will probably be out so to say but then they aren't allowing themselves to be a woman now are they?
I am basically 90% stealth...but can anyone that was born a different gender really say they are 100%?? Your parents and siblings will at least know....and no one can keep a secret that well!!
I have transitioned where I live and have children therefore I cannot be 99% stealth. Doctors, teachers, relatives, pastor and some past friends know....but even though so many know I still am fairly stealth. Where I work I am completely stealth...but in this world of technology I wonder if I really am!
Even people that know about me such as teachers I still am stealth since they don't remember that I have told them or that I haven't...I am assumed to be my children's mother but I don't tell them I am, I say I am my child's parent. they still assume I am my children's mother....at times it is difficult since my children do not want to refer to me as m their mother, they have one! there are many times my children go "with the flow" .
Like today, we volunteered for a Special Olympics bowing event, at some time during the event my youngest was treating me rudely (nothing new!!) the young girl also volunteering asked if I was his mother...he said yes...she then told him he should treat me better. She then joked with him and said her mother always told her "I brought you in this world, I can take you out" It got a bit awkward for him and me. I later did joked with him about what was said, but also wanted to make sure he knew its not something I can avoid with out telling my whole story. He understands...but I do feel really bad for my children when this happens.
I live in a fairly small community and run into people that once new me before, but rarely does anyone remember me. This helps in being stealth but also makes for a lonely life, since I do not talk with anyone that new me before.
I don't like to refer to myself as stealth, I like to feel that I am just another women. I do realize though who I once was so therefore I have no choice but describe my life as stealth. But things like todays event just remind me of the fact that I am not trying to fool anyone I am just me. There are also times that remind me of how much I missed learning growing up as a women. today was also one of them. I have had numerous affirmations of being a women for the past 3 years but today came a few new ones. One was admiring a new mothers 16 day (yes day) new born, she described much of what I was familiar with (I have 3 boys) but nothing I was intimately familiar with, I don't feel awkward...just wish I could relate better. I ended up ejecting myself from the conversation earlier than I would of like too!
In saying all this....stealth does have its advantages but also comes with regret when there is so much of a normal childhood most genetic girls share. Sure I can get by and make small talk and even relate well, but its not the same when you can't relate the feelings the same.
Quote from: Katie on December 07, 2013, 07:57:39 PM
I just think that if someone is a woman they will learn to be a woman, which means keeping their mouth shut. Now if they are a trans person they will probably be out so to say but then they aren't allowing themselves to be a woman now are they?
You know I'm not post op so maybe I'm not allowed to have the same feelings you do! but I am also a woman and its just that!! But unfortunately I have had a past life in a different gender as have you, and it does need to be known in rare instances.
No one really knows my past and no one needs to know....this is how I live my life, but there are times it needs to be known....doctors, children's teachers (not all of them) children's friends.....and men (once intimacy is wanted)....since I am pre-op
I can't remember the last time I have had to tell anyone...but I am sure I will have to again someday!!
Quote from: Just Shelly on December 07, 2013, 08:17:50 PM
You know I'm not post op so maybe I'm not allowed to have the same feelings you do! but I am also a woman and its just that!! But unfortunately I have had a past life in a different gender as have you, and it does need to be known in rare instances.
No one really knows my past and no one needs to know....this is how I live my life, but there are times it needs to be known....doctors, children's teachers (not all of them) children's friends.....and men (once intimacy is wanted)....since I am pre-op
I can't remember the last time I have had to tell anyone...but I am sure I will have to again someday!!
And you bring up a good point that I can make. The difference between pre op and post op is quite extreme. I promise you once you have srs you start a new transition and the way you see the world changes dramatically. And yes your desire to keep your mouth shut is very likely to increase. This is not dissing your pre op status it is only pointing out what happens after surgery. I am not suggesting your any less of a woman either. But when you have srs well as I said it all changes again.
You know I do believe you are right...one reason I feel only 99% a woman. Maybe once I have surgery it will feel as if it should of been that I felt only 80% of a women. ???
I really don't know....but how many times in life does someone ask to see what's in between your legs...how am I any different than you or a genetic women, unless we all walk around naked.
I do want surgery very badly...in fact I feel I need it!! but how will this change how I am perceived now....the only things now would be the changing room at a pool and definitely with intimacy!....and sure it will help me perceive myself when going to the bathroom....but other than this my life isn't much different than yours.
Please do not be offended but I do get a feeling of the almighty post-op from you....but I do understand where your coming from. Yes it does help to have what all women have in between our legs....I can only dream of the day :'( But I am just trying to enjoy myself as the women I am accepted as..... even more than I could have ever thought possible. Getting surgery will definitely be the topping on the cake...but I already have at least a seven layer one going :)
Kia Ora,
Becoming stealth (post transition) is (in a sense) just swapping one 'closet' for another....
It would seem most of us are in the closet 'prior' to coming out trans (and beginning our transition)-then stuffed back into the closet goes one's birth-sex 'post' transition "stealth"...
And the deeper the stealth, the further back into the closet ones past-life is pushed - which is a potential recipe for paranoia, which can lead to panic attacks, anxiety etc ...
However I should point out tis "Different Strokes For Different Folks" whatever floats ones boat... (my stealth-boat is 'semi'-submerged)
Metta Zenda :)
You know it is totally ok for you to feel like I am speaking from that almighty. There was once a time when I felt like you and a wise post op woman told me what I told you and I was thinking hey im as much of a woman as I will ever be. Well needless to say I was wrong. You can ask any post op woman if it changed her in ways she never could have imagined and she will say yes. Perhaps thats why srs is an all important part of the process. I should point out to you that many of the changes are difficult to put into words. Perhaps the best comparison is all the changes you went through when you started hormones. Changes you could not have imagined till you lived through them.
Quote from: Just Shelly on December 07, 2013, 08:09:25 PM
I am basically 90% stealth...but can anyone that was born a different gender really say they are 100%?? Your parents and siblings will at least know....and no one can keep a secret that well!!
I agree, nobody is 100% stealth. I just find it to be an easy shorthand way of describing my postition to other TGs on this forum and on the odd occasion to a medical person. Let's face it, even a Stealth bomber was never 100% stealth, but it was when it was important.
Quote from: Just Shelly on December 07, 2013, 08:09:25 PMThere are also times that remind me of how much I missed learning growing up as a women. today was also one of them. I have had numerous affirmations of being a women for the past 3 years but today came a few new ones. One was admiring a new mothers 16 day (yes day) new born, she described much of what I was familiar with (I have 3 boys) but nothing I was intimately familiar with, I don't feel awkward...just wish I could relate better. I ended up ejecting myself from the conversation earlier than I would of like too!
In saying all this....stealth does have its advantages but also comes with regret when there is so much of a normal childhood most genetic girls share. Sure I can get by and make small talk and even relate well, but its not the same when you can't relate the feelings the same.
Although I had my GRS years ago, you and I are really similar in this respect. Sometimes the girls at work will be talking about motherhood and giving birth etc, and one of them might, for example, ask how it was for me back in the 70s when my two were born. I am now confident enough to go into a bit of detail but just swapping the roles in my mind, because I was there for both of the births.
But sometimes it can be the most simple question that can catch you out. When I changed job in the mid 80s to start my stealthy existence, I was talking to one woman and she was asking if I was married - I said I was divorced - did I have children - I said no because I knew it could lead to questions about me working long hours and who looks after them. Easier to say no. Then, to my surprise, she asked: "What was your husband's name". I immediately replied "Steve". It was a name I just plucked out of the air, but you can't really spend time thinking about a question like that. I then made a mental note that my first husband's name was Steve.
I asked her why she had asked and she said: "I don't really know! I was expecting you to say you had children and I suppose it kinda threw me that you didn't."
Over the years I've learnt to cope with all sorts of natural questions. It became easier when my children got to their 20s and the next job I went to I just let people know I had a boy and a girl in their 20s.
Shelly, it sounds like you've got three nice boys. You must be proud of them.
Caroline
x
I concur stealth is a very specific condition, and it takes some tough choices to get there, ( like breaking all relations with friends and family then moving to a different region.) I think there is plenty of room between activist and stealth, one could call it the "easy road", but then, there is no such thing for TS people.
I do not want to be known as the "TS girl", at work, or anywhere else for the matter. So I never mention it, I went through all the proper channels to take care of legal stuff, and my old identity is fading away. At work a co-employee that was hired after my legal transition knows about my planned medical leave. He guessed it's for a boob job, hasn't got a clue it's for srs, and that's just the way I'll keep it.
Quote from: Sarah7 on December 08, 2013, 11:53:20 AM
My kind of situation is not so uncommon anymore, with people transitioning younger and younger. Especially in Canada where SRS is covered by our public healthcare. Lot of people transition during university and then just go live their lives.
I like to see myself in that situation however could I ever be truly 100% "not out"? I wonder... here in Quebec for example, I just went to change my name and gender marker in at our DMV equivalent (SAAQ). I was told by the worker that although my gender would say F and my name would be changed, there would forever be a record somewhere in a database on the computer showing that a change would be made, and my old information would be somewhere in storage >:( No use complaining to her, that is an issue for the politicians