Disclaimer: I'm not sure if this is in the right spot, though it is related to women's health.
I'm just wondering if there are any studies that prove wearing a bra prevents sagging. While I have heard about the French study that contradicts this notion, I read that there were flaws in the study. Does anyone know if there is any truth to it? Should women wear a bra everyday to prevent sagging? Even though there are reasons to wear one besides this, I'm just curious to know if the gravity myth does have a kernel of truth. Regardless, I need one, but it would be nice to know that if that isn't an issue.
And on a side note, if that doesn't prevent sagging, any other good tips? I'd like to avoid any problems in the future.
Thanks all. :)
It might have something to do with the size of the breast. Larger heavier breasts must sure stretch the skin and supportive tissues, so if the overall weight was supported then it must surely prevent the worst aspects of that. There would be other factors in play, child birth and breast feeding being the prime example. I've seen the bare breasts of many wome, old, young, large, slim, black, white... and everywhere in between - I've seen young women with very droopy breast, old women with quite firm breasts, thin women with saggy breasts and huge women with rather perky breasts, my point being that it varies greatly. I guess if bras did stop the droop they clearly haven't helped in all cases!
Quote from: Ms Grace on December 11, 2013, 08:54:42 PM
It might have something to do with the size of the breast. Larger heavier breasts must sure stretch the skin and supportive tissues, so if the overall weight was supported then it must surely prevent the worst aspects of that. There would be other factors in play, child birth and breast feeding being the prime example. I've seen the bare breasts of many wome, old, young, large, slim, black, white... and everywhere in between - I've seen young women with very droopy breast, old women with quite firm breasts, thin women with saggy breasts and huge women with rather perky breasts, my point being that it varies greatly. I guess if bras did stop the droop they clearly haven't helped in all cases!
Yeah, from what I read it's very inconclusive. The thing is I've been having a lot of growth recently (for me) and I want to make sure I keep everything healthy. And sometimes it's more comfortable for me to not wear one (like around the house). I'm just making sure that not wearing one 24/7 would be an issue. I'd hate to have a problem because I was a bit careless.
I've been concerned about this but also the extreme end - compression for hiding early on. What in any of this is needed either way and what is problematic?
I don't know whether it prevents sagging, but I do know having support is a lot more comfortable than not having any support at all. You won't catch me leaving the house without a bra on. ;)
I have herd both fron friends, one friend said that wearing a bra did help prevent sagging and has kept her boobs perky, but another friend, same bra size, said wearing a bra didn't help anything and her boobs are really saggy. One thing that seems to be a constant tho between both friends is genetics. The friend who has perky breasts said both of her sisters and mother have no problems with sagging, and the friend who does said that her mother, sister and so on all have sagging problems. So my conclusion is simply look to your mother and sisters if you have them.
some interesting stuff here! I really liked the last quote from the former CEO of Playtex. You would think that he would have
a financial interest to push sales. I would also like to note that the ones I wear are fun, frivolous, and frilly. I like to wear them.
Bras Make Breasts Sag, 15-Year Study Concludes
Saturday 13 April 2013 - 12am PST
Women's Health / Gynecology
Bras Make Breasts Sag, 15-Year Study Concludes
Health Professionals:
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Public / Patient:
1 2 3 4 5
Wearing a bra does more harm than good - it does nothing to reduce back pain and weakens the muscles that hold up the breasts, resulting in greater breast sagging, Jean-Denis Rouillon, a sports science expert from the University of Besançon, France, reported after a 15-year study.
Rouillon says that the main conclusion from the preliminary results of his "marathon experiment" is that the bra is a false necessity.
In an interview with France Info (radio), Professor Rouillon said:
"Medically, physiologically, anatomically - breasts gain no benefit from being denied gravity. On the contrary, they get saggier with a bra."
Prof. Rouillon used a slide rule and a caliper (a device used to measure the distance between two opposite sides of an object) to carefully measure changes in breast features of hundreds of women over a 15-year period at the Centre Hospitalier Universitaire, Besançon.
All his volunteers were between 18 and 35 years old. Rouillon emphasized that although his study spanned many years and included hundreds of women, he in no way claims his sample population is representative of the global population of women.
Rouillon found that women who never wore bras had nipples on average seven millimeters higher in relation to their shoulders each year than regular bra users.
In an interview with France Info, a 28-year old female called Capucine says she swears by Rouillon's findings.
Capucine, who was one of the volunteers in Rouillon's study, said:
"There are multiple benefits (to being without a bra): I breathe more easily, I carry myself better, and I have less back pain."
Rouillon warns that some women should not throw their bras away immediately. For example, older women (45 years or more) would derive no benefit from throwing away their bra. In an interview with Reuters, he said "But a middle-aged woman, overweight, with 2.4 children? I'm not at all sure she'd benefit from abandoning bras."
In an interview with The Local, an English-written newspaper in France, Rouillon stressed "These are preliminary results. The small sample of 320 young women is not representative of the entire population - that would require something like 300,000 subjects."
The study did confirm that, according to preliminary data, when young women stop wearing a bra:
There is no deterioration in the orientation of their breasts
There is widespread improvement in the orientation of their breasts
A previous study by the University of Portsmouth, England, revealed that some women are damaging their breasts because they are wearing the wrong bra size.
Rouillon acknowledged that women wear a bra for a number of reasons, apart from hoping to conserve the shape of their breasts and to prevent sagging. Some find them more comfortable, especially those who live far from the equator during wintertime.
In order for these "preliminary results" to become "definitive", Rouillon says he needs to recruit a much larger sample of women, and to conduct further research on the subject.
John Dixey, former CEO of bra-maker Playtex, explained in a Channel 4 (British TV channel) interview "We have no evidence that wearing a bra could prevent sagging, because the breast itself is not muscle, so keeping it toned up is an impossibility.... There's no permanent effect on the breast from wearing a particular bra. The bra will give you the shape the bra's been designed to give while you're wearing it."
Written by Sarah Glynn
Makes sense, the female body evolved to not need breast support. People might point to tribal cultures where the breasts of older women are down to their navels and flat. This is true, but the breasts only serve one real biological purpose and that is to nurse babies. Western cultures and those influenced by them have developed a fetishism around breasts remaining youthful and perky and this has been facilitated by the bra, which in fashion terms isn't a very old concept (a bit over 100 years I think). It makes sense breasts would go flat and saggy after child rearing years are over, most women wouldn't want to carry a DD+ bossum around into their fifties and sixties.
There was a study once that suggested wearing bras, or at least tight bras, could lead to breast cancer. Don't know if that's since been debunked or not.
Quote from: Heather on December 12, 2013, 12:10:57 PM
I don't know whether it prevents sagging, but I do know having support is a lot more comfortable than not having any support at all. You won't catch me leaving the house without a bra on. ;)
I disagree with the comfort thing, I don't wear a bra at all (not even a sports bra while running). No problems with discomfort!
Also no sag. :)
There was a documentary on this a little while ago. It focused mainly on sagging due to pregnancy and associated enlarging of the breasts.
From what I recall, there are some strong fibres that support the breast and stop sagging. While those fibres are strong, they tend not to stretch well. Each time a woman got pregnant and her breasts enlarged, those fibres stretch to support the fuller size. However after breast feeding stopped, breasts would reduce in size, but the fibres already stretched maintained their stretch size, leading to sagging. They suggested that breast sag could recover after one or perhaps two pregnancies, but beyond that it was very unlikely that they would ever recover. There was also evidence that physical movement could result in stretching of those fibres too.
I don't put much stock in studies preferring to rely on personal observation. My mother-in-law never bothered with bras and now her D sized breasts are swinging pendulously at close to navel level. Her 60+ year old daughter who is also a D, has always worn good support, replaced them regularly and is just as perky as any 25 - 30 year old woman. Same genes, different women with different attitudes about breast care and support. Both women had children and breast fed.
Quote from: RoxanneN on December 12, 2013, 03:16:36 PM
I disagree with the comfort thing, I don't wear a bra at all (not even a sports bra while running). No problems with discomfort!
Also no sag. :)
Well how fast are you running and for how long? (Sorry I'm a runner) I know my girls have to be strapped down when I run or I'm going to feel it. :P But it's ok you don't like bras I kinda love them I'll admit and as long as a bra is in good condition I don't have any discomfort wearing them. :)
Yeah, that's my main issue if I don't wear a bra and am doing some sort of bouncy activity like running or riding rollercoasters or something... lots of bouncing, and that hurts like hell with how sensitive they are at the moment. So I wear a sports bra when I'm going to be doing any sort of fast-motion activity. Too much motion hurts.
Really, if you want a history, though, the bra was basically just invented to replace the top half of the corset as a body-shaping object when girdles became more popular. That's all it does, and that's all it was invented for, was to shape the breasts into a more youthful perky appearance while it's on. It serves no health benefits whatsoever, and is purely a product of our beauty/fashion culture. The only other purpose it serves is cultural modesty, to protect the innocent eyes of those who are offended by the existence of... *gasp*... nipples!
Quote from: Carrie Liz on December 13, 2013, 03:21:25 AM
The only other purpose it serves is cultural modesty, to protect the innocent eyes of those who are offended by the existence of... *gasp*... nipples!
I wear soft bras with no padding and nipples show through those under a T shirt. I don't want even 1/8" of padding like what is in T shirt bras because it makes my boobs look way larger than they are which tells me that a hell of a lot of cis women are fooling a lot of male boob watchers out there. Meanwhile I have found nipple covers in the women's intimates section at Macy's that does the trick. Last thing I want is for some dork ogling my nipples and making Bevis & Butthead comments at my expense. "Oh look Bevis, she/he or whatever it is has nipples!" :icon_peace:
I have been told they do.
I have D cup breasts, I wear a bra daily or tops that provide support, the only time I don't is when I in my pjs. I was told women with bigger breasts need to the support to save them from back ache
I have relatively perky breasts.. they don't hang down too much once my bra comes off.. I will tell when i am older is a bra helped.. I am only 23.
A far as I know the only thing you can really do to prevent sagging is to keep your pecs in shape. I found this video that shows some exercises you can do to keep them at maximum perkiness ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq9EXcpSJcE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq9EXcpSJcE)
Thanks for all the feedback. It seems that bras don't do much for prevention. That's a relief too me because I'm comfortable not wearing them around the house all the time. Still, I should be wearing one outside. My nipples are very noticeable and at this point I have very noticeable breasts. And I do like having support and comfort when they are sensitive, but they aren't too big yet and I'm not always doing vigorous activities outside. Having worked out on a treadmill without one, I can definitely understand the support and comfort that bras really do add. Very painful.
Well, I have to do something to make sure they stay in good shape. I think doing exercises might be a good idea. Thanks lady oracle for sharing that video. However, I can't do even one pushup, so it will be a challenge, lol.
The proof is in the physical mostly.if trained since puberty then yes,they can help and they do form the breasts but if not trained at development then gravity takes over.for me,I trained early as I should have but I didn't stay at it.over time (and 2 kids later) I let it go,not keeping them in the shape I wanted them to form to.but I'm happy personally because I hate bras and makes binding easier.so in a nut shell.IF the breasts are trained at puberty and a good,normal routine kept-they will form nicely and shape to that,rarely sagging at all but you would need to keep it up and pregnancy WILL pull them down due to weight (milk and feeding) but even then if you are smart about,sagging to bad can be avoided.otherwise,there isn't a thing I can offer to help with it.once you leave the training stage,your pretty much left to devices and special bras/sugery's.no way to go back naturally.
Quote from: Heather on December 13, 2013, 02:03:45 AM
Well how fast are you running and for how long? (Sorry I'm a runner) I know my girls have to be strapped down when I run or I'm going to feel it. :P But it's ok you don't like bras I kinda love them I'll admit and as long as a bra is in good condition I don't have any discomfort wearing them. :)
5 mile jog. Though I can sprint or do HIIT braless and still no problem.
Tried many bras, dislike them greatly. Very uncomfortable. I can't remember the last time I wore or even owned one.
Quote from: Heather on December 12, 2013, 12:10:57 PM
You won't catch me leaving the house without a bra on. ;)
Same here. My breasts are so heavy now that for me it is a matter of survival -- I am at the point where I
have to have the support. And I wear a bra to bed now, too, for comfort. :o
Perkiness is the last thing on my list of worries. It's way back in the r ear view mirror. 8)
Not too long ago I could easily go in boy mode 24/7. Lots of changes, but good. :)
No. Bras don't . Breasts sag with age as the amount of collagen in our skin decreases. Yes if you have very large breasts (atypical for trans women) the weight will pull them down. A bra won't stop that. If your breast grow very quickly they can cause stretch marks to form.
Tl,dr gravity and age gets everyone.
Also, I always find it amusing when people say they worry about compression affecting development. Push up brass rely on compression and have been in popular use since the 60's.
I use Palmer's Coco Butter Massage Lotion for Stretch Marks and rub it in while I am doing my breast massaging which I do twice a day for 10minutes. It has Vit E, Elestin, and Collagen in it really helps. I have found that the Playtex 18hr bras work the best for support and they make both non wire and underwire bras, but there are specific one I use. They are not very expensive either. Besides massaging I also do light tri pull downs which helps lift the breasts and help them stay close together.
Quote from: Isabelle on December 15, 2013, 07:05:48 AM
No. Bras don't . Breasts sag with age as the amount of collagen in our skin decreases. Yes if you have very large breasts (atypical for trans women) the weight will pull them down. A bra won't stop that. If your breast grow very quickly they can cause stretch marks to form.
Tl,dr gravity and age gets everyone.
Also, I always find it amusing when people say they worry about compression affecting development. Push up brass rely on compression and have been in popular use since the 60's.
I'm sure that's true. Still, I want to do my best to avoid sagging as long as possible. It's better to prevent the issue early on.
Quote from: Michelle Hayden on December 15, 2013, 08:43:33 AM
I use Palmer's Coco Butter Massage Lotion for Stretch Marks and rub it in while I am doing my breast massaging which I do twice a day for 10minutes. It has Vit E, Elestin, and Collagen in it really helps. I have found that the Playtex 18hr bras work the best for support and they make both non wire and underwire bras, but there are specific one I use. They are not very expensive either. Besides massaging I also do light tri pull downs which helps lift the breasts and help them stay close together.
I use Gene's vitamin e cream and aloe vera on my breasts everyday to prevent stretch marks. It seems like stretch marks in that area are a problem for most transwomen, so I'm trying to do what I can to avoid that issue as well.
Quote from: generous4 on December 15, 2013, 05:17:38 AM
Same here. My breasts are so heavy now that for me it is a matter of survival -- I am at the point where I have to have the support. And I wear a bra to bed now, too, for comfort. :o
Perkiness is the last thing on my list of worries. It's way back in the r ear view mirror. 8)
Not too long ago I could easily go in boy mode 24/7. Lots of changes, but good. :)
I'm still growing and haven't been on hrt too long, so my breasts aren't that big yet. Right now, I'm comfortably wearing a b cup, but I'm really more of an A. I just needed to find a band size that worked for me. In any event, I'm slowly understanding why bras really do help with support, lol.
I'm not sure if what I read was related directly to sagging but one health reference website provided the following quote:
During Stage 4 breast development "it is very essential to give adequate support to the breasts with the help of a good bra."
One other thing I'm getting worried about after comments here and further reading is the potential for stretch marks forming. How likely is this to occur? I read that it can be very common in transwomen, possibly because the unnatural hormone administration can force growth through more quickly. Any additional suggestions to help avoid this would be welcome. I don't want to end up with problems because I'm too distracted by the wonder of development!
Violet, I think some skin types have less elasticity and are more prone to stretch marks, but who knows until it happens. Best plan is to do breast massages with coco butter or some coconut oil like several of the gals have suggested. It lubricates the skin and gets the blood flowing more efficiently to the hormone receptors.
Quote from: Shantel on December 16, 2013, 09:35:02 AM
Violet, I think some skin types have less elasticity and are more prone to stretch marks, but who knows until it happens. Best plan is to do breast massages with coco butter or some coconut oil like several of the gals have suggested. It lubricates the skin and gets the blood flowing more efficiently to the hormone receptors.
Looks like I have much to learn, I had no idea about any of that.
Quote from: Violet Bloom on December 16, 2013, 09:19:12 AM
I'm not sure if what I read was related directly to sagging but one health reference website provided the following quote:
During Stage 4 breast development "it is very essential to give adequate support to the breasts with the help of a good bra."
One other thing I'm getting worried about after comments here and further reading is the potential for stretch marks forming. How likely is this to occur? I read that it can be very common in transwomen, possibly because the unnatural hormone administration can force growth through more quickly. Any additional suggestions to help avoid this would be welcome. I don't want to end up with problems because I'm too distracted by the wonder of development!
Prevention is key for stretch marks. Everyday I use Vitamin e cream with aloe vera and haven't ran into too many problems (I use a lot of body lotion). Unfortunately, it can happen because of the hormones and there is only so much you can do. Since your fat is being redistributed and stretching the skin in new areas, it's not too unlikely for them to form.
Make sure to drink lots of water and too lose extra weight in a healthy manner.
Quote from: Shantel on December 16, 2013, 09:35:02 AM
Violet, I think some skin types have less elasticity and are more prone to stretch marks, but who knows until it happens. Best plan is to do breast massages with coco butter or some coconut oil like several of the gals have suggested. It lubricates the skin and gets the blood flowing more efficiently to the hormone receptors.
My skin has good elasticity and is quite taught. I'm also starting with near bottom-of-healthy-range BMI and am quite thin. I don't think I'm going to have too much trouble with sagging but I am concerned that my skin won't want to make room quick-enough to accommodate my development. That said I might never have significant-enough fat deposits for breast-building unless I start eating like crazy. I can at least say that I've re-gained some of my pubertal appetite again and have put on a few healthy pounds since.
Quote from: Ms Grace on December 12, 2013, 03:13:34 PM
Western cultures and those influenced by them have developed a fetishism around breasts remaining youthful and perky and this has been facilitated by the bra, which in fashion terms isn't a very old concept (a bit over 100 years I think).
Absolutely - that's what everyone used to think ... until a bunch of 600 year-old bras were found in an ancient Austrian castle last year ... and they look EXACTLY like modern bras.
So I guess that women figured out a very long time ago what the best way was to shape breasts and prevent them from drooping ... and who are we to argue?! :)
Here's the link, and it's well worth following just to check out the shape of the medieval bra!
http://www.historyextra.com/lingerie
Quote from: Carlita on December 16, 2013, 11:44:11 AM
Absolutely - that's what everyone used to think ... until a bunch of 600 year-old bras were found in an ancient Austrian castle last year ... and they look EXACTLY like modern bras.
So I guess that women figured out a very long time ago what the best way was to shape breasts and prevent them from drooping ... and who are we to argue?! :)
Here's the link, and it's well worth following just to check out the shape of the medieval bra!
http://www.historyextra.com/lingerie
Lending credibility to the biblical saying, "There is nothing new under the sun!"
That link was awesome :) good find. I always thought bras (as they are known today) were a much more modern invention
Happy to be of assistance with all your brassiere-related historical inquiries, ladies! :)