I was just wondering how most cis men and women view "trans" women. It was pointed out in a thread today of the possibility of some doctors having a dim view of us. I'm just starting transition and just don't know how they will react to me once I'm me. I'm bi and always will be. Honestly men turn me on can't help it . I told a friend of my transition a few days ago and haven't heard back from him so I don't know if he hates me now or what, He's really a cute guy.
from what I've experienced, the trend goes towards confused sissy gay male who wants to masquerade as a woman to entrap straight males and turn them gay.
true story. I've heard this one many times
A dirty little secret to screw when their wives and girlfriends are having periods.
Quote from: Oriah on December 13, 2013, 10:03:29 AM
from what I've experienced, the trend goes towards confused sissy gay male who wants to masquerade as a woman to entrap straight males and turn them gay.
true story. I've heard this one many times
Yep, both homophobic
and transphobic in one fell swoop. Cis dudes can be real class acts!
Simply put, gay/lesbian/bi/trans people aren't interested in 'turning' others, but those who discriminate against us spend years of their lives convincing others to do likewise.
Please let's not tar all men with the same broad brush.
Yes, there are ignorant folk who believe ridiculous tales and who look down on us.
I know a number of men who, while they don't understand why I needed to transition, they respect it and are very good about using my new name. They are just as polite and friendly as they were when they saw me as an ordinary guy. 90+% of the men I know fit in this category.
IMO, the more we educate people about transgender (e.g., we are wired this way, it's not something we choose, it's a medical treatment for a condition that otherwise has serious consequences, etc.) the less we're going to see of these attitudes.
Quote from: suzifrommd on December 13, 2013, 10:22:15 AM
Please let's not tar all men with the same broad brush.
Yes, there are ignorant folk who believe ridiculous tales and who look down on us.
I know a number of men who, while they don't understand why I needed to transition, they respect it and are very good about using my new name. They are just as polite and friendly as they were when they saw me as an ordinary guy. 90+% of the men I know fit in this category.
IMO, the more we educate people about transgender (e.g., we are wired this way, it's not something we choose, it's a medical treatment for a condition that otherwise has serious consequences, etc.) the less we're going to see of these attitudes.
Agreed. This topic seems designed to encourage bashing of men.
I have 2 doctors, my doctor for HRT and my primary doctor who is a general physician.
My HRT doctor is a wonderful human being, he is the only one in the area to treat transgender people, I believe his reputation has even been affected for doing so.....though I hope it's been good rather than bad. I even thought he was gay up until about my third year on HRT...I just figured someone that is helping a group of people like us, must also be in a minority. I found out recently he has been happily married for years, though his wonderful nurse is a lesbian...just found that out also.
The reason I mention this is because it does seem to help if your therapist or doctor is part of the LGBT community....but this isn't the case for me at least. My therapist was a gay man and even though he helped me immensely I also felt he was more one sided of favoring anything I may do.
My primary doctor is a married hetero women, I have only recently decided to stop seeing her...this is only because my HRT doctor is also a general physician. I am sad over doing this since I feel she is just as wonderful of a human being....but my main reason is because she is not familiar with the HRT regiment TG people need. I do get a feeling at times that she may not agree with what I am doing but I know she does not hold any prejudice against me since she also questions if her one daughter is TG.
I have also seen other doctors in the last 3 years and can say I have been treated with the same respect anyone else has. There was one doctor that I consider a quack and treated me like a number...but this had nothing to do with me being Trans, since he never knew. He was just a bad doctor....about the third one I have had in my lifetime....but that's out of about 20....there's always good and bad in any profession.
I can't say what the majority of people think without knowing them. What I will say is that most who know about me are very sweet, compassionate and understanding. Not everyone will approve and really comprehend what I feel, but most seem to have a "do what you want and be happy" mentality. Now, if only I can get my family there, lol.
For disclosure purposes, I'm not out to everyone in my life just yet, but a decent amount of people do know about my transition. I'm not making an effort to hide it either.
Edited to make more sense, lol.
95% don't seem to care, and I also don't want to guess what they think. But those in California who know me are courteous, and only the religious cousins back in Michigan despise me.
Really how could we possibly know? I can tell you that the vast majority of people I know and meet treat me very well or with the indifference afforded any other stranger. And then there are plenty of people who have met transgender people who "pass" so completely that no one is aware of their past.
I suggest we cannot let the tyranny of the majority determine our course in life or our ultimate happiness. Live free as yourself and share the joys of self liberation with those we meet.
I've noticed when I read the comments section of news articles concerning trans gender issues that it's about an even mix of men/women doing the "bashing talk" but the one group that really stands out are the religious commenters, they can get very very mean and disgusting!
Quote from: Tessa James on December 13, 2013, 11:57:42 AM
Really how could we possibly know? I can tell you that the vast majority of people I know and meet treat me very well or with the indifference afforded any other stranger. And then there are plenty of people who have met transgender people who "pass" so completely that no one is aware of their past.
I suggest we cannot let the tyranny of the majority determine our course in life or our ultimate happiness. Live free as yourself and share the joys of self liberation with those we meet.
Agreed. It's impossible what's in the hearts and minds of people we have never met, assuming most of us have not met all of the worlds population, lol. I just hope youtube comments aren't a reflection of it.
Oh internets comments in general are a reflection of what the population isn't. Certain websites do have different mixes of commenters than others.
I know for me personally before I realized that's what I was, well I probably always realized it maybe after I accepted it to myself. I grew up seeing the jerry springer version and the Geraldo version of the prostitute transgender. I worked by a street in Chicago notorious for prostitution by the trans prostitute. That was my perception for a long time of the trans woman. I am trans and I have been a prostitute. Maybe my view of transgender got misguided along the way, The thing though because of the neighborhood I worked in ,The heart of the lgbt community, my perception started to change a lot. It's weird because I am trans ,but maybe I didn't totally want to admit it. Then I started to transition and found Susan's place. My view of the trans community is so different after seeing everybody on this web site. I personally had a very different view than I do now.
A better public quiz would be how would they feel about a person they have known for years, was trans and had transitioned 12 years ago. As a reasonably passing person, it's not my thing to ever disclose, but neither is it a secret if it comes up.
I can only go by what the media says, people who generally equate "lgbt" rights to white cisgender middle class gay marriage rights sprinkled in with some anti-discrimination and anti-bullying campaigns. There is a massive ignorance in society of anyone who is not gay, those who are bi, pan, trans, intersex, etc. For trans people there is a large ignorance which has lead to very very casual transphobia. I see it all the time and not just from the right but from really wonderful people who will make jokes or misunderstand us because of western civilizations grip on the gender binary and transphobia. When I saw Jon Stewart, who I think is a wonderful comedian news pundit, interview Jared Leto on his character in Dallas Buyers Club I was rather annoyed. Not once did either of them mentioned or talked about Letos character who is a transwoman. Rather he spoke at length on some incredibly inane thing about how Leto had to lose weight for the role. Not even once did the terms "transgender" "transwoman" "male to female", etc come up. It could have been an excellent stage to talk and educate people about us since Jon Stewart is extremely influential in todays politics. Colbert some times makes transphobic jokes which are very offhanded, such as in the Word talking about the size of "her adams apple". Then you have TV shows like South Park who have equated us trans people to trans ethnic or trans species people and end the episode with Mr. Garrison saying he's just really a man and would rather be a woman who can't have a period than a ->-bleeped-<-. Or perhaps various movies in which trans women are bad guys such as Hannibal Lector or Ace Ventura. Is it a wonder that so many people are ignorant and/or harbor transphobic tfeelings because society constantly bombards us with the ideas that it is wrong and shameful to be transgender, that somehow we are wrong for who we are, that people are only the gender they were born with and that we transition so that we wouldn't be gay. I can even go into transphobia within the "LGB" community with the likes of Kathy Brennan. It honestly angers me that because of society I and many, many other trans people harbored so many transphobic thoughts which have actively prevented us from becoming who we are and most importantly happy about ourselves. It's prevented many of us from getting the medical care we need and having to pay thousands upon thousands of dollars to be happy. We are under so many threats just because we go beyond the gender binary and norms that I could write a whole volume of books. We need to fight this, gain allies and take back the LGBT movement, make it all inclusive and not just for middle class to rich white cisgender gay people.... Yeah so many feels here about our rights...
Ms Brennan's writings aren't allowed on this site. Please don't anyone go fetching anything from her.
I have recently made a couple of new friends in my town they are both straight but are also open minded and allow me to be me around them they don't care so there are good ppl out there but they are severely outweighed by ppl who don't understand therefore are cautious in a negative way to keep us at a distance for their own peace of mind.
Emily.T xx
From my limited experience in dealing with the public in my job, I have found that most view us as individuals and how we are towards them is most often reflected back. A number of men that knew me from before transition have adjusted to who I am and treat me accordingly. Sure a few are obviously uncomfortable around me, but I can't say what their issue is as I haven't asked them and they certainly aren't going to volunteer the reason why they are.
I've learned to just do my thing, treat people the way I would like to be treated and things are just peachy when dealing with people.
I do wonder why it is that you seem to always start topics that are almost sure to stir something up though.
Quote from: big head horsey-face on December 13, 2013, 03:21:09 PM
From my limited experience in dealing with the public in my job, I have found that most view us as individuals and how we are towards them is most often reflected back. A number of men that knew me from before transition have adjusted to who I am and treat me accordingly. Sure a few are obviously uncomfortable around me, but I can't say what their issue is as I haven't asked them and they certainly aren't going to volunteer the reason why they are.
I've learned to just do my thing, treat people the way I would like to be treated and things are just peachy when dealing with people.
I do wonder why it is that you seem to always start topics that are almost sure to stir something up though.
'Sperience.
some are supportive, like my mate and best friend, while others want to witch hunt us, most people where i live, in the end theres no way of knowing how someone feels unless they tell you.
I have had 90% positive response from guys. Even country guys seem to like us as long as we are cute and there type of girl. They treated me like any other girl they liked with the bonus of not having to worry about birth control and knocking me up . Now woman on the other hand have seen me as mostly just another woman. The down side to this is they see me as just another woman and use whatever diet they can against me like they would any other girl. It's bitter sweet. But all and all they seem to see us as people ( as long as we pass) at least the ones I have mostly come across. And this includes my nephew and nieces PTA.
I would think that left to one's own devices with no outside input, people would mostly not draw negative conclusions about transfolk. It's completely irrational. Unfortunately, we live in a world where this is not even remotely the case. The US unfortunately has a culture that is mostly toxic towards transwomen. We have (among other things) dudebro groupthink, Jerry Springer, religious fanatics, politcians using us as pawns in the culture war and an exploitative porn industry to thank for that. This is why it is important to me to look as unmistakeably female as possible. Being a woman in the US is tough enough as it is, but being clocked as a transwoman dramatically increases your likelihood of very bad things happening to you.
So thank you, society. I'm sure my plastic surgeon will thank you even more.
Generally speaking, men seem turned off to us because many think having sex with a transsexual makes them gay. Unfortunately that's what many of them see women as being good for, and if you were a man who now has a vagina you pose a pretty serious threat to his sexual orientation. Again, not saying all men are like this. It's just the predominant male attitude. Women seem to be much more understanding in general and seem be more inquisitive about our situation.
Quote from: Gene24 on December 13, 2013, 04:37:58 PM
Generally speaking, men seem turned off to us because many think having sex with a transsexual makes them gay. Unfortunately that's what many of them see women as being good for, and if you were a man who now has a vagina you pose a pretty serious threat to his sexual orientation. Again, not saying all men are like this. It's just the predominant male attitude. Women seem to be much more understanding in general and seem be more inquisitive about our situation.
There's just something really ironic about the fragile nature of masculinity.
Quote from: big kim on December 13, 2013, 10:14:17 AM
A dirty little secret to screw when their wives and girlfriends are having periods.
I'm dreading this... I feel like it's going to happen to me at some point. Being with a guy that will rush me out when someone is coming, or hide me, or not introduce me to any of his friends or family. I'm still quite optimistic that I'll find plenty of guys (and girls) that won't act like that at all, but even if it happens just once or twice, I think it'll be hard to deal with. :-\
Quote from: Jill F on December 13, 2013, 04:42:06 PM
There's just something really ironic about the fragile nature of masculinity.
It definitely can be blunt, rigid, and not understanding at times! The other day my best friend (who I came out to) saw a MTF transsexual while we were out. The only thing that gave her away were her kind of stocky, masculine calves. Then he said "Is that a man or a...? Dude, I just don't know why you're not gay."
I wouldn't know I guess but most people treat me great. My BF told his parents he was living with me and shows people pictures of me and they are always like "wow, I didn't expect her to look like that" meaning normal. But I guess I look really femme and pretty enough that people think I should be doing this. I'm not sure but I have never encountered animosity. I couldn't deal so I guess I'm lucky.
But no one thinks I'm trans so there is that. I don't identify as trans either.
It's probably been said before, but there are too many variable situations to consider such as where you are what you look like etc. Most people simply do not care as they are more concerned about getting to where they want to go as opposed to playing the "lets stand around and see if we can spot a load of ->-bleeped-<-s" game. Again, depending on what demographic you ask, many people in the modern world know we exist and simply accept that. Luckily, at least in the UK, we do not have religious or political death squads being sent out to deal with the "bothersome" increase of transgenders in the town. Younger generations are more concerned about getting laid with whoever or whatever they want to become coupled with at the end of a booze and drug fuelled night. Local farmers are too busy getting uncoupled from the local sheep and Mrs Jones is more concerned about picking the best looking cabbage, potatoes and carrots in the supermarket to go with the joint of beef Mr Jones picked up last night ready for this Sundays lunch. See, we exist in the same spaces as everyone else. We are visible yet invisible.
Radfems have an issue though. I think that once they figured out that women do run the planet, when they feel it's necessary to do so, and can look good doing it, they figured they'd become obsolete. They panicked and looked for the next thing to bash, for another reason to exist. Us.
Anyway I do not know where I'm going with this. Maybe it's the Tramadol ;D and it's late ???. This reply is about as valid to the trans community as is the original question.
No one cares. Go into the real world, smile. Exist. You'd be surprised at how people do react. :P
Quote from: Joanna Dark on December 13, 2013, 05:26:53 PM
I wouldn't know I guess but most people treat me great. My BF told his parents he was living with me and shows people pictures of me and they are always like "wow, I didn't expect her to look like that" meaning normal. But I guess I look really femme and pretty enough that people think I should be doing this. I'm not sure but I have never encountered animosity. I couldn't deal so I guess I'm lucky.
But no one thinks I'm trans so there is that. I don't identify as trans either.
That's the thing- If you're pretty and femme, you're viewed as a woman, nothing more. If you look like a shaven ape in a dress, it's not so great. I got clocked a lot early on, and some d-bags really let me have it. Thankfully HRT and facial hair removal worked some quick magic on me and I basically just look like an amazon woman now. I haven't been treated badly in a few months now. If everyone knows you're trans, it is a different experience entirely.
We know society does not care for "us" so I'm trying to just become as nice & normal a woman as humanly possible so I do not have to deal with that.
I've had my share of experiences with mean men in the past and that was no fun. Policeman were the worse giving me a very hard time when I was not causing anyone any harm at all.
Women have mostly always been nice.
Quote from: kathyk on December 13, 2013, 11:45:54 AM
95% don't seem to care, and I also don't want to guess what they think. But those in California who know me are courteous, and only the religious cousins back in Michigan despise me.
I agree with Kathy, probably most folks don't give a rip. They're too wrapped up in their own world to worry about what someone else is doing. But, as a general rule, I think women are probably more sympathetic toward trans-people than men are. I think there are some men who are scared of us, because they might have wanted to wear female clothing, or have maybe questioned their own gender at some point in their life. The "religious" zealots will despise us along with everyone else who's different, so what they think doesn't matter. I happen to have God on speed dial, and He already told me He's cool with us. So, we have that goin' for us...which is nice... ;)
I don't know about the anti-men thing either. Men treat me great. Prolly too good it's weird lol but I did get fired however maybe I just sucked and that's all there is to it. In fact she said that: you suck this isn't personal. I actually believe that since the first thing she told me to do is use the womans rooom. But really I don't talk about trans stuff ever. EVER.
Also I have been stopped by the police and forced to disclose and other then being accused of being crude for suggesting I'm actually MAAB, again nutin' but politeness. But I tell people I'm a woman not a trans woman.
Wow!! I must be in the Greatest part of the world. I have yet to run into any genuine negativity. I've often felt that if you treat people how you want to be treated that's what you're going to get. Since I reached the point of going out in public, (pre-op and post-op) I can only remember once when someone questioned my gender. This subject should not bring on all the thoughts and opinions of how someone views us. After all, if you don't tell them who you were prior to your re-birth. They should never know. We should focus on the glorious fact that you are either on the way to becoming who you feel you really are, or you have arrived. Enjoy and believe and it will become.
Dina
It might vary a lot depending on the area. I can only speak for the my location.
It depends very much on the ability to pass.
Vast majority of people are indifferent and very much tolerant. Younger generations are much more accepting.
There are many people very accepting and supportive
Most people are only superficially familiar with this subject. Yet many people are so aware it is unbelievable.
The trans terminology is often unknown
The public thinks this stuff is mostly about SRS
People make jokes about "cut it away"
Things like preop , nonop and different gender varities are too weird for the general public
Many do not understand but are still friendly.
Some people say stuff like man in a dress , it's not a real man/woman . They need therapy not mutilation surgery. Will insurance have to cover that? This type of thing. But they will usually keep it to themselves. Direct confrontation would be rare and not socially accepted.
Most so called straight people would not be willing to date a transperson themselves.
Still people have issues with transpeople and children. Some people still raise the question if transpeople can be good parents.
The situation is not bad but there is still so much room for improvement.
A funny thing happened when reading this thread: I thought about disclosure. It seemed like an academic exercise in the other thread and maybe that's how some approached it--as academic. But for me it is a serious question. I don't know it just felt like it got so heated and now I wonder how many trans women actually face that issue. prolly most but maybe most don't post?
Food for thought. The main thing I meant to say is maybe peeps should wait to present if it causes too many problems. The only reason I started presenting in June was because I wasn't passing as male and I found I got treated great when peeps saw me as I am: female.
Its human nature to be leery of things they don't understand, deviate significantly from what they are accustomed to, and a host of other things.
Now from what I have observed most of the trans population in their own minds are the above. Even if they had a seamless appearance, they would still stand out as different. Otherwise put if you don't own who you are other people are going to nail you over and over again.
Oh and finally for those that think the best approach is to try to educate the masses about trans people.... well be my guest. Since there as so many facets of trans I can only guess that it confuses people. An example would be someone speaking to the people saying they are female with male parts and want to keep them. Im sure that goes over really well. Crap I don't even get the trans thing anymore. I have been waiting for someone to tell me they are trans species, turning into a zebra or something.
Katie
Quote from: Katie on December 13, 2013, 07:43:23 PM
Its human nature to be leery of things they don't understand, deviate significantly from what they are accustomed to, and a host of other things.
Now from what I have observed most of the trans population in their own minds are the above. Even if they had a seamless appearance, if they don't see themselves as normal then they will stand. Simple as that.
Now I realize there are people that want to stand out as different and more power to them but for people that want to be seen as normal well the best place to start is in their heads.
Oh and finally for those that think the best approach is to try to educate the masses about trans people.... well be my guest. Since there as so many facets of trans I can only guess that it confuses people. An example would be someone speaking to the people saying they are female with male parts and want to keep them. Im sure that goes over really well. Crap I don't even get the trans thing anymore. I have been waiting for someone to tell me they are trans species, turning into a zebra or something.
Katie
Big hug! Sorry you're struggling to understand these complex things, hon. Maybe a tutor? Hugs, Devlyn
Okay, I don't know why people think women are more accepting. Let me tell you about a jarring experience.
I've been working at my place of employment for nearly 5 months now. Now, I'm still stealth. I assume some people know (like the office manager, HR manager, and maybe the doctors that work there), but I know for a fact that at least some of them do not. Case in point:
Recently I was hospitalized. While I was in the hospital, a coworker of mine and her daughter were visiting me. We were in my room talking, acting cheerful, etc... when my not passable at all roommate walked in with food. Immediately, the daughter of my coworker shut her mouth and didn't talk the rest of the time. My coworker and I continued to converse, which she didn't seem bothered by anything at all. My roommate said very little.
The day after my next day of work, my coworker called me on the phone. First thing out of her mouth "Okay, WHY didn't you warn me about that roommate of yours? I had to explain that to my daughter!" "I was blushing, so I just kind of apologized and said I wasn't expecting "him" to come (I didn't want to get into the whole transsexual blah blah). She went on to say "I mean the first thing out of her mouth was 'Why did that man have boobs?'.." She went on to make fun of her situation for a good 30 minutes, and honestly I felt the need to go along with it to cover my stealth identity.
The kinds of stuff that were discussed were pretty transphobic to say the least. This all went on behind her back. Now there's a running joke that I have a crossdressing male roommate with huge boobs and when it's brought up in the office, everybody gets a kick out of it (btw I work in an office of about 95% women).
Let me add on another experience. When I was hospitalized, they gave me a bracelet that had an F on it. When I told the people in the ER that I'm trans, they didn't change it. Well, actually they did, but they didn't change it to M. When I got to the ICU, they were asking me why I was on such a high dose of Spiro, and I told them that I'm trans. Well these girls just were so sweet, but their attitude changed completely. It went from let me help you to let me ask you a bunch of questions about your gender ID. After that, they replaced my bracelet w/ an M. I can almost tell you for a fact that that very sweet nurse went to change it because she's not so understanding ... behind my back.
Point is: both sexes seem pretty equally freaked out by us. Men are just more on the table about it.
Ah a comment from my fan club. A tudor? No thanks. I understand transsexual women.......... the rest I don't and you know that's totally ok with me. Just not worth my time to try to understand all these other trans this and that.
I have to agree. If we don't blend in it seems to cause more of a issue. As this guy once told me," if you looked like a man in a dress I would probably have made fun of you or worse." It sucks but for those who don't blend in its like lets avoid them. And as far as the woman being just as bad remark it is so true. Depending on the person they really can be, and some people are just nice enough not to make fun of you in front of your face.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on December 13, 2013, 07:59:17 PM
When I was hospitalized, they gave me a bracelet that had an F on it. When I told the people in the ER that I'm trans, they didn't change it. Well, actually they did, but they didn't change it to M. When I got to the ICU, they were asking me why I was on such a high dose of Spiro, and I told them that I'm trans. Well these girls just were so sweet, but their attitude changed completely. It went from let me help you to let me ask you a bunch of questions about your gender ID. After that, they replaced my bracelet w/ an M. I can almost tell you for a fact that that very sweet nurse went to change it because she's not so understanding ... behind my back.
That reminds me of something that happened to me when I had my tonsils out. I went out of town to do it because I don't trust the idiots at my local hospital. As it turned out, I went to the same hospital where I had my orchi done exactly one year before. It was scheduled during the same time of day too...talk about freaky.
I was sitting in the room waiting on the nurse and this woman walks in. She looked liked she was in her 60s. She asked me the usual questions and then asked me when I had my last period. I just laughed and said "Well, I'm trans so that doesn't apply to me." Hell, I didn't care. I just wanted to get my tonsils out and go back home. She gave me a blank look and left the room. I just laughed to myself and thought "whatever." She sends back this other nurse that looked like she was in her 20's. As it turned out, she had a trans-sister. I just thought it was weird but funny at the same time. I told her that too. I wasn't really offended. I just wanted to take care of what I was there for and that was all. I guess the older nurse felt that the other nurse could "deal with it better". :D :D Whatever.
P.S.: The tonsil removal recovery SUCKED. Getting the twins cut away was much easier to recover from.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on December 13, 2013, 07:59:17 PM
Okay, I don't know why people think women are more accepting. Let me tell you about a jarring experience.
I've been working at my place of employment for nearly 5 months now. Now, I'm still stealth. I assume some people know (like the office manager, HR manager, and maybe the doctors that work there), but I know for a fact that at least some of them do not. Case in point:
Recently I was hospitalized. While I was in the hospital, a coworker of mine and her daughter were visiting me. We were in my room talking, acting cheerful, etc... when my not passable at all roommate walked in with food. Immediately, the daughter of my coworker shut her mouth and didn't talk the rest of the time. My coworker and I continued to converse, which she didn't seem bothered by anything at all. My roommate said very little.
The day after my next day of work, my coworker called me on the phone. First thing out of her mouth "Okay, WHY didn't you warn me about that roommate of yours? I had to explain that to my daughter!" "I was blushing, so I just kind of apologized and said I wasn't expecting "him" to come (I didn't want to get into the whole transsexual blah blah). She went on to say "I mean the first thing out of her mouth was 'Why did that man have boobs?'.." She went on to make fun of her situation for a good 30 minutes, and honestly I felt the need to go along with it to cover my stealth identity.
The kinds of stuff that were discussed were pretty transphobic to say the least. This all went on behind her back. Now there's a running joke that I have a crossdressing male roommate with huge boobs and when it's brought up in the office, everybody gets a kick out of it (btw I work in an office of about 95% women).
I have had similar experiences and during those times I feel bad that I don't speak up and defend or more so tell them its not right to judge others. Its a whole new world when your stealth though!
I know for a fact if someone was doing more than just talking or was damaging someone's reputation or affecting them personally...I would say something.....the times it has happened they were just talking about drag queens or men that wanted to be women type talk....I don't encourage it or add to the conversation, I just will nod or chuckle a little.
I will be honest, one of the reasons I don't say anything on either side is because I don't feel like I am trans...I feel like any other women does!
and yes women can be even worse...because its done behind your back....If that was a man in the room he may have said to your roommate "whoa, man are you a dude! Still isn't right...but at least the white elephant in the room is noticed!
Honestly??
A good amount of them think were freaks. I can't count how many times I've seen females cry that were not real woman because we can't get prego, or have periods, etc. No matter how beautiful, educated, intelligent, caring, loving, people we are they still think were men pretending to be what they really are. And that were only out to trick men and have sex with them. Men for the most part feel the same way. They will argue you down till their last breaths no matter how much you try to educate them. They feel like they hold the deed and monopoly on what's male or female.
Never mind the fact that sex, sexual orientation, gender, gender ID, etc are uniquely different they always reduce us to gay men who want to be woman to have sex with men. Most cisgender people can't understand that not everything is simply black or white. I've seen it on countless trans related posts all over the net. It's sad because it seems MTF's get the brunt of this type or opposition. No one ever considers FTM's or even acknowledge they exist mostly, or that MTF's can be lesbian with NO interest in men, or that sexuality has nothing to do with being trans in the grand scheme of things.
I think if transsexualisum and transgenderisum were more widely accepted as a legit medical condition similar to more obvious birth defects people would be more understanding. Insurance companies need to cover trans related surgeries and stop listing them as cosmetic. Job discrimination needs to be trans covered across the board, etc.
I think it needs to be driven home that we aren't doing this for fun. This is VERY real and it effects kids and adults and it's more common that people think.
People will make fun of anyone with a condition that is not what they deem "normal". I am disabled and walk about as well as a fish. Prior to starting RLE I would hear people muttering as they walk past about various things relating to my disability such as 'Mummy, that person walks funny..yes darling they are what is known as a cripple..' Followed by the obese father, balancing a bag of corn chips on his stomach, behind saying 'bet they get some great support from the government and a free parking space..' Sometimes, I just can not believe how blatant people are when criticising the misfortunes of others. I have heard people make all sorts of comments. You just learn not to hear them with time.
The funny thing is though, since I started RLE a year ago and have been out and about to the same public spaces I have not heard one derogatory comment about my disability or my obvious transness. Bizarre.
Truth is we make people uncomfortable. There is no point bitching about it here on Susan's either, because the majority of the universe can not hear us. If you want it to go away, you have to make those first steps into the world.
Quote from: Janae on December 14, 2013, 03:39:46 AM
Honestly??
A good amount of them think were freaks. I can't count how many times I've seen females cry that were not real woman because we can't get prego, or have periods, etc. No matter how beautiful, educated, intelligent, caring, loving, people we are they still think were men pretending to be what they really are.
I honestly can't fault them for part of that. I do want to be what they really are. It's their reaction that is all wrong. Rather than help people who need it, they choose to discriminate. It's the "Ewww! Transsexual!" reaction that keeps us from having our procedures covered by our OWN healthcare or making advances in medicine to where we could reproduce. I've always felt lacking because I can't reproduce as my gender and I probably will until science can make this happen. Hopefully most of you can deal with it better than me.
Since this question is about how most cis men and women feel about transwomen I guess I'll give an answer.
Religious views aside, I don't see any harm from them. To each their own I guess.
As far as I am concerned if a person feels male or female that's how they feel. I really couldn't care less how they walk or talk or sit or stand or dress. It's their body. It's their mind.
If I know FTM's they wished to be addressed as male that's how I do it. Likewise with the girls.
Just because I disagree on some things because of spiritual views doesn't mean that I will dishonor them.
Hope this answer from a cisgender male helps.
Just remember, it doesn't matter how everyone views us. As long as they treat us with respect and don't discriminate against us, there views are not important. Sure, there are people that do discriminate against us (and that's an issue that should be addressed nor be belittled), but I'm referring to those who don't agree with our lifestyle yet don't stand in the way. For those people, it's really not important. Most people have guessed I'm trans without me disclosing and they tend to be nice and friendly. It's possible they talk behind my back and see me as the cute silly gay guy who wants to be a girl (I expect it), but all I care about is whether they stand in my way to live my life. If not, who cares what they think. As long as I'm treated with the same respect that others deserve, then there opinions are not relevant. And the lgbt community is pretty accepted here in NY, so I doubt there are too many open hostilities. At the end of the day, you can't force people to accept you or understand who you are, but you can create a social and legal atmosphere where tolerance is practice. To be honest, it's hard to understand if you've never been through it. And for this reason, I can't even relate to many of the experiences of some in the transgender community, but I respect them for who they are and tolerate them for their differences.
Again, there is a lot of discrimination for us to fight against, but for those who just don't understand or condone our lifestyle, it's really not important. Those that do stand in our way to live and restrict our rights and freedoms are a whole different story. And I know there are many of those that exist.
Quote from: nikkit72 on December 14, 2013, 04:38:03 AM
People will make fun of anyone with a condition that is not what they deem "normal". I am disabled and walk about as well as a fish. Prior to starting RLE I would hear people muttering as they walk past about various things relating to my disability such as 'Mummy, that person walks funny..yes darling they are what is known as a cripple..' Followed by the obese father, balancing a bag of corn chips on his stomach, behind saying 'bet they get some great support from the government and a free parking space..' Sometimes, I just can not believe how blatant people are when criticising the misfortunes of others. I have heard people make all sorts of comments. You just learn not to hear them with time.
Wow...that is screwed up. But it doesn't surprise me. I have one family member that was in a really bad auto accident several years ago and she has problems with walking now due to this. She's told me that people have made screwed up remarks to her. It doesn't surprise me because I know how much the majority of people suck and will dog you for any reason, so I can only imagine what they say to her. I've never heard it in my presence, though, BUT if I ever do, that individual will end up wishing they had kept their mouth shut. Just the mere thought of it happening sets my blood to hyper-boiling. But if I actually witnessed this then all bets are off.
this isn't a lifestyle or a choice for me. Maybe I'm different since I have some intersex disorder which is why Mazzoni won't let me have injectable estrogen. (i have had b cup boobs since age 15 and puberty did nothing. My T level is 182 without HRT. 182!!!!) People have always told me I should get a sex change or just straight up treat me as a girl. So it's either go all the way or be stuck in between. I tried that and tried T, and this is the only thing that has worked.
so I someone saying they don't condone this is basically forcing me into the open closet of unhappiness. Eff that.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on December 14, 2013, 11:01:17 AM
this isn't a lifestyle or a choice for me. Maybe I'm different since I have some intersex disorder which is why Mazzoni won't let me have injectable estrogen. (i have had b cup boobs since age 15 and puberty did nothing. My T level is 182 without HRT. 182!!!!) People have always told me I should get a sex change or just straight up treat me as a girl. So it's either go all the way or be stuck in between. I tried that and tried T, and this is the only thing that has worked.
so I someone saying they don't condone this is basically forcing me into the open closet of unhappiness. Eff that.
It wasn't a choice or a lifestyle decision for me either. However, I can't expect everyone to agree with my transition or see it as natural. Not everyone will. As long as they don't stand in my way and respect me for who I am that's all I care about. If they treat me as female and don't make any problems for me, that's all I can ask for. Yes, I want everyone to view me as female and to accept it, but I don't think we can force others to think what we want. What I will say is that everyone who does know about me treats me like one of the girls. I appreciate that and don't want to second guess what may be in the back of their heads. Otherwise, I will lead a very paranoid or sad life. In any event, I'm going stealth as soon as I can, so it won't always been an issue for me.
Yeah there will always be haters no matter if your trans or whatever. I just enjoy life and my friends, family and fiancé. Life is what you make it :)
Quote from: Gene24 on December 14, 2013, 05:03:17 AM
I honestly can't fault them for part of that. I do want to be what they really are. It's their reaction that is all wrong. Rather than help people who need it, they choose to discriminate. It's the "Ewww! Transsexual!" reaction that keeps us from having our procedures covered by our OWN healthcare or making advances in medicine to where we could reproduce. I've always felt lacking because I can't reproduce as my gender and I probably will until science can make this happen. Hopefully most of you can deal with it better than me.
I know exactly how you feel. For the most part I've accepted my trans reality it is what it is. But I do wonder how much easier life would've been growing up if I were born female. I also long to have children. It get's so bad at times I get emotional and cry when I see really adorable kids on tv. Then I have to pull myself together. When I go to Walmart with my mom every month I get excited when we go to the baby section to pick out stuff for my nephews. It's become a real sore spot for me ever since I started my transition. The really sad thing is that females & men take their cis-status and "normalcy" for granted. We have to work, fight and claw for our womanhood. In a way I think it makes us better because it wasn't just given to us. It's sad that people can't see past what they grew up knowing. It doesn't take much to educate yourself or our condition.
Majority? They view us as a man no matter how hard we're gonna try.
I do not know how much notice people will take of this post, and it is not meant to be negative or offensive towards anyone in any way, but it seems that topics such as this serve up a lot of negativity compared to other topics here on Susan's. I know it is difficult etc, but it looks like people are looking for an excuse not to step through the door, and those that already have are not helping those that have not by posting about all their negative experiences that relate to being trans. Anybody for a quick shot of anxiety before making that initial step? ANYONE seen to be different from what society perceives as "normal" will be thought about, spoken about, confronted sometimes an in rare circumstances physically abused. This is not the privilege of the trans community alone. Life is too short, and when you have 2 of them to live, either side by side or one after the other, stop giving a s**t what others think.
Sooner or later people will start viewing trans people as those that sit in a closet all day complaining about things if we all do nothing about it.
Quote from: Evolving Beauty on December 15, 2013, 03:43:46 AM
Majority? They view us as a man no matter how hard we're gonna try.
Not my experience at all. The complete opposite of my experiences..
Quote from: nikkit72 on December 15, 2013, 05:03:29 AM
I do not know how much notice people will take of this post, and it is not meant to be negative or offensive towards anyone in any way, but it seems that topics such as this serve up a lot of negativity compared to other topics here on Susan's. I know it is difficult etc, but it looks like people are looking for an excuse not to step through the door, and those that already have are not helping those that have not by posting about all their negative experiences that relate to being trans. Anybody for a quick shot of anxiety before making that initial step? ANYONE seen to be different from what society perceives as "normal" will be thought about, spoken about, confronted sometimes an in rare circumstances physically abused. This is not the privilege of the trans community alone. Life is too short, and when you have 2 of them to live, either side by side or one after the other, stop giving a s**t what others think.
Sooner or later people will start viewing trans people as those that sit in a closet all day complaining about things if we all do nothing about it.
I don't bother much with posting the positives here any more.. Being called a liar gets to be a drain I don't need.
The fact is, I live my life as a woman.. I do normal things. I don't make my being trans an issue, it's so far down my list of priorities. But I've long been working on the 'Take me or leave me' theory. I am who I am.
Quote from: nikkit72 on December 15, 2013, 05:03:29 AM
I do not know how much notice people will take of this post, and it is not meant to be negative or offensive towards anyone in any way, but it seems that topics such as this serve up a lot of negativity compared to other topics here on Susan's. I know it is difficult etc, but it looks like people are looking for an excuse not to step through the door, and those that already have are not helping those that have not by posting about all their negative experiences that relate to being trans. Anybody for a quick shot of anxiety before making that initial step? ANYONE seen to be different from what society perceives as "normal" will be thought about, spoken about, confronted sometimes an in rare circumstances physically abused. This is not the privilege of the trans community alone. Life is too short, and when you have 2 of them to live, either side by side or one after the other, stop giving a s**t what others think.
Sooner or later people will start viewing trans people as those that sit in a closet all day complaining about things if we all do nothing about it.
I understand what you are saying, but I think it's important to share both the positive and negative. Look, we will all struggle and have hardships. Sharing those issues will help others get a realistic view of what we go through. If someone needs to make the initial step, they should prepare themselves for what can happen. Transitioning is a tough road and people should realize that. I feel that sharing the ups and downs is more helpful in the long run. Speaking as someone with paralyzing fear, I appreciate people sharing their hardships and difficulties. It's helped me in many ways, and it's also comforting to know others have been in the same place only to overcome it.
For what it's worth, all the progress that I've made has shocked me. I never thought I could accomplish the things that I have and it's amazing that the path has been as smooth as it's bee so far. Most of the people I have met have been understanding and supportive. And it's been pretty damn easy except the expense issue and family drama. Though, I have much more progress to make and many fears that prevent me from going forward at a faster pace. The only thing that gives me solace is that I've realized that most of my fears were overblown and no where close to reality (with the exception of my mother's reaction). Yes, there will be downs to come and people that will stand in my way, but this is what's right for me. If I follow my heart, the ups will outweigh the downs in time. And the more time progresses, the more and more I pass which is great! The positives, for me, beat all the negatives so far.
Probably depends on how you go about it.
I'd bet money if you wore one of those stereotypical one piece-ends at the knee dresses with a big wig (That seems to be the default transsexual mode of dress in television), you'd be seen as a pervert.
I'd bet pervert with a lot of people, actually. That or just a weird person.
Quote from: Mogu on December 15, 2013, 10:12:38 AM
Probably depends on how you go about it.
I'd bet money if you wore one of those stereotypical one piece-ends at the knee dresses with a big wig (That seems to be the default transsexual mode of dress in television), you'd be seen as a pervert.
I'd bet pervert with a lot of people, actually. That or just a weird person.
Yeah, I notice that there are some transgirls with questionable fashion. Just my opinion.
As a new trans woman this subject is very, very interesting to me. I am always watching how people react to me.
I don't have near the amount of presenting female as some of you do, but I have noticed some things that keep happening.
One of those things is guys staring at me. This has happened several times now. I don't know what they are seeing.
The other thing that has been happening is that women have been opening up to me and have been chatting me up even when I've been presenting in boy mode. I get the female smile from other women now too.
I can do without the men staring but the women being friendly thing is nice and it can stay.
I found that girls smile at me a lot more since my face has some noticeably small changes.
yeAh i was out at the falcons pre party last night and i didnt have any problems. these days i almost never have problems related to being trans. i know alot of woman do support trans woman as long as they pass. at least from what they tell me and others i have found say we are all goods creatures and should b treated as such. gadda feel that love from them :angel:
Quote from: gowiththeflow on December 15, 2013, 01:40:25 PM
yeAh i was out at the falcons pre party last night and i didnt have any problems. these days i almost never have problems related to being trans. i know alot of woman do support trans woman as long as they pass. at least from what they tell me and others i have found say we are all goods creatures and should b treated as such. gadda feel that love from them :angel:
good to hear I so much want to do full time. I 'm hopeful I'll be all right
evercrook for the most part full time is great. you get to just be you and start dealing with your demons inside so that that you can just be happy with life, be involved with things and have fun. i know in the beginning i fought everything transition related until it was forced upon me. turns out alot of our fears can turn out to either not be real or not as bad as we think the will be. most of the stuff school wise blew over within a few months. issues with guys for me turned out not to be that much different than any other girls. and that means so guys have things about girls that will make them not date you. but most will at least be friends with you first and then test the waters if you know what i mean and thats the most fun type. gossip amongst girls is also the same. rather your trans or not. they are always going to talk. and last the dreaded past. i will admit up until the begining of the year i though i was 100% over everything but then found i had that last hurdle to cross that i never did which was letting go of the past. once that happened i went from being happy 80% of the time to like 95% (5% for having to work overtime and babysit). bottom line is going full time can be fun because it frees your mind up some so you can start to deal with things. and girls who can deal with their issues can easily have alot of guy friends and some girlfriends. because in the end these other people will see you and not a stereo type. and thats coming from the token black/cuban girl with a white russan grandmother so you know people talk :P
Quote from: gowiththeflow on December 15, 2013, 02:18:36 PM
evercrook for the most part full time is great. you get to just be you and start dealing with your demons inside so that that you can just be happy with life, be involved with things and have fun. i know in the beginning i fought everything transition related until it was forced upon me. turns out alot of our fears can turn out to either not be real or not as bad as we think the will be. most of the stuff school wise blew over within a few months. issues with guys for me turned out not to be that much different than any other girls. and that means so guys have things about girls that will make them not date you. but most will at least be friends with you first and then test the waters if you know what i mean and thats the most fun type. gossip amongst girls is also the same. rather your trans or not. they are always going to talk. and last the dreaded past. i will admit up until the begining of the year i though i was 100% over everything but then found i had that last hurdle to cross that i never did which was letting go of the past. once that happened i went from being happy 80% of the time to like 95% (5% for having to work overtime and babysit). bottom line is going full time can be fun because it frees your mind up some so you can start to deal with things. and girls who can deal with their issues can easily have alot of guy friends and some girlfriends. because in the end these other people will see you and not a stereo type. and thats coming from the token black/cuban girl with a white russan grandmother so you know people talk :P
that's so much for the encouragement I feel so much better about my self as I inch forward . I really like the testing of waters statement.
Quote from: evecrook on December 15, 2013, 02:28:02 PM
that's so much for the encouragement I feel so much better about my self as I inch forward . I really like the testing of waters statement.
Sorry to take it off topic here, just wondering why you put so many spaces before you type your posts. It makes it a little annoying to read. Not a huge deal, just wondering.
Quote from: Orange Creamsicle on December 15, 2013, 02:40:03 PM
Sorry to take it off topic here, just wondering why you put so many spaces before you type your posts. It makes it a little annoying to read. Not a huge deal, just wondering. Well, I'm trying To figure this thing out. If I don't put spaces I end up inside the box , I'm just unsure of the proper format
Go to where it says [/quote], put the cursor to the right of the "]" and press Enter. Start typing. It goes inside the quote box because you type inside the [quote] and [/quote] tags.
your welcomes girl
Quote from: Orange Creamsicle on December 15, 2013, 03:11:18 PM
Go to where it says [/quote], put the cursor to the right of the "]" and press Enter. Start typing. It goes inside the quote box because you type inside the [quote] and [/quote] tags.
oh