Hi, I've just got 6 sessions of laser hair removal treatment for two areas of my face. I'm choosing my upper lip and chin areas since they seem to be the most stubborn/hardest to shave without cutting. I get shadow much more on my upper lip unless I avoid shaving for over a week (which I hate doing). Someone mentioned to me that it could possibly grow back in future if I run out of an anti-androgen, even if taking estrogen. They mentioned something about galvanic electrolysis as the one true way for permanent hair removal. Thus, I would like to know more about this and of how much it costs, etc. I've just had a patch test done and it did sting a bit and made me flinch a little, but from what I've heard, electrolysis would hurt a heck of a lot more.
Thanks!
Electro sucks. Period. It's like getting hundreds of bee stings in one sitting. But it sucks less than having facial hair and I want it gone yesterday, so I go for 2-3 hours a week. Laser isn't fun either, but it's most likely temporary. So far about half of what I lasered has come back. It was enough to fast track me enough to go full time, and that was about it.
Ok at the beginning of transition years ago I had seven settings of laser on my face and neck. The laser got rid of the hair where one would grow a beard. It reduced the hair on my neck and did a little in the goatee area. After that I simply shaved for a good number of years ignoring the hair.
Last July I brought a professional electrolysis machine. The one I got is an older Apilus model but it is computer controlled and has both galvanic and AC modes and then blending of both.
I have been going at the remaining hair since July and am close to being done. It has taken at least one hour a day sitting in front of the mirror. For the most part it is not very painful. The only really hard parts are under the nose and mustache area. What I do is to get these hairs is turn the power down somewhat and increase the exposure time. It makes it less painful. This might be kind of funny but I actually don't mind doing it myself. I crank up the sound system and start zapping. There is a sort of mesmerizing pleasure to zapping a hair and removing it with what I call the hair guts attached (its dead).
You mentioned galvanic. Yes it works as does AC current. If you go to a professional she will either use AC or a blend of both. The reason why is if you use galvanic alone you have to zap each hair for more than six seconds. With AC you can do each hair in less than a second. Since time is a factor she will be using AC.
So that's my story. Laser can work no doubt, on the other hand having done both I would say for the most people electro is going to have to be used no matter what to get rid of the light hairs and such and when electro is done correctly the hair is NEVER going to come back!
Katie
Electrolysis hurts... but it's worth it. After laser I still have a mix of white and dark hairs leftover and I go in for an electrolysis session every two weeks.
Relaxation and meditation exercises help with the pain, except in the upper lip area. Rather than turn down the settings, my tech uses a topical anesthetic for that area. It still hurts, but not as bad.
As for the cost... that will vary according to where you live. Where I live the cost for personal services is fairly high and there isn't much competition. I'm paying about $80/hr for blend electrolysis but I've heard there are some parts of the country where you can get it for $30 per hour. The one thing you'll have to factor in is number of sessions. Depending on what you need, you may have either dozens or hundreds of sessions in your future. (Expect to eventually spend several thousand.)
The best way to go forward is to call around where you live and make an appointment. Basically you just go in for a trial session, see if you are comfortable with the technician and trust her with your face, and ask how much they charge and how many sessions it should take for what you want to have done.
Is it hard to DIY electrolysis? Also, if one DIY's electro treatment, can they damage the underlying skin or something? Thanks!
Is it hard to do it yourself? Good question. Yes you can hurt yourself, its quite easy to burn yourself and I have done just that when I was beginning.
The best advice is to look on ebay and places like that for a professional machine, you don't want junk. Also you can do a lot of learning from info you get off the internet.
So say you come to the idea you want to do it yourself. I can assure you it is going to take a lot of time!!!!!!!!! It is going to take a lot of time!!!!!! On the other hand one of the advantages of having your own machine is say you see one of two stray hairs on your face, you can simply go zap them. A lot better than waiting a week or two for your next appointment. Also professionals often have a minimum fee so when you get to the point where you just have a few hairs left its kind of hard to go to a pro where you know you have to pay say 40 dollars for a few hairs.
Wouldn't topical anesthetic make it easier and quicker to accomplish permanent hair removal?
Quote from: supersilk98 on December 15, 2013, 11:27:28 AM
Wouldn't topical anesthetic make it easier and quicker to accomplish permanent hair removal?
Some electrologists will offer some kind of numbing stuff for an extra fee, or you can get some dentists (or some kind of doctor, not entirely sure) to administer before you head in.
I've heard store bought numbing creams don't have as much of an effect.
I found laser hurt a bit more than electrolysis. Different people feel it all in different ways.
Quote from: supersilk98 on December 15, 2013, 04:19:11 AM
Is it hard to DIY electrolysis?
The process itself isn't hard, but there are areas where you'll find it difficult to see what you are doing and areas where its difficult to hold your hands in the right position. I tried using a One Touch unit some years ago, but I found it very hard to see under my own chin and I never got the hang of doing the left side of my face with my right hand. Having someone else do it is a lot easier and a professional is less likely to cause any pitting or scarring.
I don't know that the topical anesthetic makes it easier or quicker. My tech works just as quickly and efficiently regardless of whether she is working on a numbed area or not. What it does do is allow her to work on the numbed areas without lowering her settings. This means that the hairs she gets are less likely to come back.
While it might sound like a good idea to just slather anesthetic over your whole body before going in... topical anesthetics are still drugs and overuse can be fatal. My best advise would be to give electrolysis a try first before deciding which areas could use a bit of judicial numbing.
Ah yes there are parts I cant get at myself and for that I have a friend that will take care of it for me. Your absolutely correct the left side of my leck is very difficult to see correctly to get the needle in there.
On the plus side if you have a lot of trans friends and a pro machine you can rest assured that there are people you know that would love to trade chair time.
Quote from: Katie on December 16, 2013, 08:04:06 AM
On the plus side if you have a lot of trans friends and a pro machine you can rest assured that there are people you know that would love to trade chair time.
That, and a friend might happily zap those spots that your tech would charge extra for.
Quote from: SunKat on December 16, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
That, and a friend might happily zap those spots that your tech would charge extra for.
If your friend just happened to be a bit of a sadist...
I have my own lasers and a flash - n - go and do mine myself. The flash - n - go can hurt in the upper lip area, so does the laser. However I put up with it because I am so repuled by hair on my face. It has taken well over a year but I have pretty much gotten rid of all the black hairs on my face I had. It's those that due to my age have grey'ed that cause me the most trouble. For them I use charcoal dye. While I've thinned them out considerably I feel I may eventually need an electrolysis machine to rid myself of all of them. ;)
would shaving then just using makeup suffice?
or is that visible anyways?
I shave and use make up right now, but really hoping I won't have to do that in a few months after more laser sessions. I think it works ok but when I go out I'm pretty nervous about my beard showing. The other night when it rained and I was going to Target I almost had a panic attack till I got to a mirror! I felt a little better after but was definitely nervous still, didn't stop me trying on shoes but none of them fit!
Electro hurts, no doubt about that. So if you have dark hairs use the laser all you can girl friends.
And a Happy New Year.
@katty
Thats another issue for us. Shoes. I might just stick with converse. There pretty genderless. :p
I might get laser...
But idk. How long till it grows back approximately?
I only just had my first treatment yesterday and its not noticeable yet. Its supposed to take a couple weeks for the hair's that got the follicles killed to fall out though. My chest is covered in red bumps right now and supposedly that's a good thing. Hope it worked cause I can grow a sweater atm if i needed :(
I like the idea of doing it myself, but it sounds a bit time consuming and tedious.
I'd rather throw down some cash, get numbed up, and have someone clear my face in one session. As long as they can promise a full clearing each session I'm game. Sometimes it's just worth it to pay. I plan on flying to a place to get this as soon as I finish saving for the first clearing. I don't have the patience to only do whatever a local tech can do in a few hours. I'm so ready for it all to be gone.
Hair removal is hands down the worst part of transition....lol
@katty
Keep up the hope! Im sure youll be clear and happily hairless in due time.
@janae
Good point.
There's three types of electrolysis. Thermolysis, galvanic, and the blend. My electrolysist uses thermolysis in her clinic and it really wasn't bad for me. Her staff all have years and years of experience and I didn't have a negative experience. That said I did just one hour. I can probably handle two hours at a time just fine but any more than that I would need some advil and better pillow. Holding my head in place for that long was just aggravating and painful. The "zaps" and needle sticks themselves really didn't hurt unless the hair was near a nerve.
Like some others have said though once you get on a roll and that hair is just being removed you kind of want to just stay there until the job is done. Each zap was a tiny victory for me and less than 20% of my hair has come back. I just need to save up some more so that I can get more work done on it :)
@christine
This is starting to sound more appealing despite the pain i keep hearing about.
Quote from: Emo on January 01, 2014, 12:26:30 AM
@christine
This is starting to sound more appealing despite the pain i keep hearing about.
Tiny victories, tiny ones. I didn't even use the lidocaine cream that I bought. Now if only the service wasn't that expensive I'd go more often. Her quote came out to $6000 for my whole face to be relatively hair free. That price was probably the most painful thing. No bee stings and it was far more comfortable than going to the dentist. Well $100 worth down and $5900 to go ;)
Thats brutal. 6000...
Why is being trans so expensive?
Quote from: Emo on January 01, 2014, 12:35:31 AM
Thats brutal. 6000...
Why is being trans so expensive?
Well really I expect to not take the full $6000. She did such a good job on my cheeks in just an hour that I'm pretty confident that I won't have many repeat sessions.
As for trans being expensive yes it is but on the brightside it's totally worth it if nothing more than the estrodial puts a serious hamper on my social anxiety.
So it really doesnt come back or will it after a while?
Quote from: Emo on January 01, 2014, 12:50:42 AM
So it really doesnt come back or will it after a while?
Depending on how hearty your hair is and the skill of the technologist you will see a 50-80% permanent reduction in the number of hairs in the area treated. The rest of the hairs often come back thinner and grow slower. So even what they don't kill is easier to shave and won't grow back as fast.
I forget what the numbers are for laser but it's a similar deal where what comes back is often damaged thinner hair that grows more slowly and shaves easier.
If you have blonde or red hair then electrolysis is likely the only way to go. If you have dark hair then pick your poison. :)
I got really lucky with pricing for laser. Searched groupon and there was a spa in new york that was offering 4 large areas for $350 each. I ended up paying just over $1500 and am getting 6 treatments for face, chest, stomach and back/shoulders. Was surprised at how quickly the session went actually and only had pain in a few areas, mainly face and nipples.
Properly done electrolysis completely kills the stem cells at the root of the hair, no hair can form again from that root.
The human body is very resilient and new hair follicles can be formed. Without androgens (T), new hairs will remain as small and thin vellus hairs just like genetic females have.
More detail if you want it
The complexity of hair follicles and their development cycle can make achieving a one zap = one kill difficult.
Multiple roots can effectively share the same pore, roots that have had insufficient nutrients can be re-energized as a side-effect of hair removal treatment on nearby hairs, damaged roots can be pointing away from the skin surface making treatment less effective on that root.
Hair growth cycles can make it seem like the process is not working.
The most effective treatment happens when the hair is growing (anagen phase).
When the growing stage ends, the hair bulb detaches from the root, the root becomes dormant while the hair is slowly pushed out until it sheds (this phase can last months).
For effective treatment, the probe needs to be very near the root stem cells when the electric current (or radio frequency burst) is triggered. An electrologist inserts the probe down to the hair bulb by feel, when the hair is not actively growing, the hair bulb is moving away from the root stem cells, thus reducing the effectiveness of the treatment.
The first full clearing of your facial hair can appear like it didn't work well, as only the actively growing hairs were killed. The good news is essentially all of the hairs that appear after than should be in the growth phase and the zap to kill ratio will go way up. Successfully getting rid of a mail beard will take regular sessions every month for many months.
Lasers: Lasers are always less effective than electrolysis. When dealing with terminal hairs, especially male beard hair, some folks achieve a "good-enough" result that allows them to transition quicker and/or get an initial clearing quicker.
-Cindi
Race and genetics have alot to do with your success and the amount of treatments you'll need as well. For example, my being Native American I didn't have a full beard to start with. So the amount of treatments I needed to get rid of the black hairs on mt face was minimal (I still have the grays to deal with due to my age), whereas, a Trans Woman of Medeterranian or Middle Eastern decent will need many more treatments.
Also girls, I recommend getting this part of transition over with while you are young enough to not have gray facial hairs to deal with. These are the hardest wretched things to deal with and with lasers or pulse light devices will require charcoal dye to be effective. The dye works but it is very messy.