I am home from my first session with E3000, on December 18th. They managed a full facial clear with two technicians in just over 10 hours total (5 hours per tech). Originally they expected a lot more hours so I got off easy. This was because neither my cheeks nor throat were as densely bearded as they initially feared based on the facial photos I'd submitted.
Their current rates are $110 per hour. My bill for this session was $1100, of which they already had part paid for by my deposit.
They use a sheathed needle so that the electrical and heat effects are only applied at the base of the hair follicle and not the length of the entire shaft which can cause more scarring and also damages collagen structures within the skin.
My face was very swollen and also very red in the immediate aftermath of those 10 hours. This is normal and their aftercare handout explains how to treat these conditions - ibuprofen, ice on the affected areas (20 minutes on/20 minutes off) and zinc oxide cream to promote healing.
The swelling goes down on its own over the first few weeks time.
Here is a before/after photo from the first session. The tiny hairs left in the after photo are not normal stubble but are dead hair fragments that are being pushed out by the skin as the swelling drops and the skin heals. Even with those though, it is very apparent that the first session removed massive amounts of facial hair. The picture doesn't show it but the neck hair was as dense as the chin and about the same grey coloration.
I was informed that in 2-3 weeks I should begin really seeing the second growth wave begin. We'll see how dense that is. The second session will likely be nearly as long as the first, but after that sessions should begin to be seriously fewer charge hours (probably switching to just one tech from session 3 forward).
You can also see some of the residual swelling (it was way worse three days ago!) and some of the residual redness as the skin heals.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3s6Ct7eoyCNYzE3ZFFzTlV1b0E/edit?usp=sharing
Wow! That's a big difference. (Photos)
Holy crap, amazing work! You have SKIN!!! :D
Thanks! I am really pleased at how things are turning out at this early stage.
It's only the first clearing so subsequent growth waves will fill things in again, though I am told each successive wave will be less dense than before.
I'll try to update this with before/after photos from each session so people can see the progress.
I will also very likely do a full facial dermal abrasion at least once after all the hair is cleared. I'm told that can greatly help smooth out differences in the complexion across regions of the face.
How bad was the swelling 4 days or so after the first procedure?
At 4 days? I'd say it was about 80% gone. There were still things that you could tell were swollen but not badly. And no one remarked at a Monday meeting where I spent with other co-workers half the day. So it either wasn't noticeable or they were just being polite. :)
As promised, I am visually documenting my progress with E3000. I forgot to take an immediate pre-session before photo so I grabbed one at the 1.5 hour break mark. By that time the upper lip was largely cleared and work had also begun on the lower right side of the chin but it still conveys the amount of facial hair which was about the same as session one. I was told not to expect significant decrease in facial hair overall until we've completed at least four sessions but I will remark that there were more small "bald" spots on my face this time meaning less overall hair total.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flizdaybyday.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F02%2Fe3000_session2_before_after_resized.jpg&hash=c9cf9504294f2eb5bb5e7a07573d9d5bd5a9f014)
The above were taken February 13th, 2014, in Dallas. The before photo was about 1.5 hours into the session and the after photo was immediately upon arrival back at my hotel around 5pm.
Also note that swelling continued to worsen until later that evening when my face was very swollen. I have a pic of that but will combine that with an "after" swelling has gone down photo in a few more days and post that then.
Using ice and zinc oxide cream and the face is recovering very rapidly again. If this goes like last time I will have about 2 weeks of no shaving at all then slowly begin to resume shaving as hair growth cycle number 3 begins to kick in.
P.S. Edited. Had to change image location as it just wasn't showing up despite setting sharing correctly on Google Drive. I used my blog's copy of the image instead.
Do you know the reason for them asking people to have had no laser treatment for 3 months prior to the visit?
Unice, I believe that this is because other hair removal treatments will interfere with and give an incorrect assessment of where your face actually is in terms of facial hair growth. By avoiding other facial hair removal for three months before hand, the facial hair you arrive with there will be a "normal" full wave of facial hair. You can continue shaving during that time and stop shaving 4-5 days before your first appointment.
Below are the before and after for session 3, that I had on April 4, 2014. Of note to me, I am seeing significant change in the upper and lower lip area between session 1 before and session 3 before. The chin and jawline are still pretty dense.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flizdaybyday.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2Fe3000_session3_before_after.jpg&hash=4c38239aa3819a0f983b2b45a14df7e3e2a9254b)
As a reminder to myself, costs were over $1100 for the first session, over $1000 for the second session, and $751 (and change) for the third session. The first two sessions involved two techs for 5 hours each (10 total hours) and 4.5 hours each (9 total hours) respectively. The third session was actually harder because it was one tech but I was in the chair for 7 hours total. There were breaks in there, including an hour for lunch, but total actual chair time was about just under 7 hours. So there was maybe 25% less hair total to be removed than during the first two sessions.
My next appointment is May 30th. I'm eager to see what the before photo looks like then.
I will note that my face has been smoother this time for longer than each of the first two sessions. I also took a few hours the second evening back and used tweezers to pull dead hairs that had broken off. It's very easy to tell which are dead and which are not. The live hairs still hurt like the dickens when yanked! The dead ones don't hurt at all, and occasionally slide out so easy that it's funny. I got about a hundred dead hairs then couldn't find any more, though I did yank 6 or so live ones along the way.
I will also note that now, a week after this session, there are still zero beard hairs showing this time yet. There are lots of very fine and small facial hairs, that many women often have, but no beard follicles yet. The process does appear to be slowly whittling down the number of facial hairs and HRT may be affecting new growth as well.
Liz, you're progress looks amazing! I'm definitely going to them considering they're just 2 hours away. I was wondering though how many sessions do you have to go? And how did you get started? I was considering emailing them my face pictures. Also can they do more than 14 hours on a face per session? Thanks in advance!
I am six days after the most recent session and didn't do pics this time. There is still slow steady progress being made. This time however we went back to 2 techs because I had extra dense hair growth on the lower chin and the neck area below the chin. The outer edges of the neck are thinning. The upper and lower lip continue to slowly thin. And the cheeks are very very sparse now.
Because of the extra hair, this session ran $990 total.
E3000 has also relocated, from Carrollton to Lewisville, about 15 minutes further northwest, at 105 Kathryn Drive in Lewisville.
My next session is July 18th.
Patience, they can do more than 14 hours but then require two days in the chair. A lot of first sessions are two day affairs, particularly for people whose facial hair density is very high.
I love E3000 and the work they've done thus far. :)
I completed session #5 on July 18th, 2014. Session #6 is scheduled for September 12. This session was over very quickly, less than five total technician hours, for $515 total. The senior technician said that the decrease in facial hair was very obvious to her. Compare this to over 10 hours total on the first session back in December 2013. Time in the chair is now down to half.
I am attaching a composite photo of the before from session 1 (before I did any facial hair removal) and the before from session 5. There is still very clearly a long ways to go obviously, but just as obviously progress is being made. If you look at the two photos, the upper lip is clearly less dense as is the area all around the mouth and the center of the chin. Also, not as obvious from this photo, the cheeks are almost fully clear before this session.
I am not including an after photo this time because they all look the same. I've realized that the interesting comparisons are the before photos from each session. Finally, as she said is true for almost all customers, the lower chin and neckline are the very last areas to begin to thin and clear.
(https://lizdaybyday.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/session1_session5_before.jpg)
I underwent my sixth session at E3000 on September 12th. The before photo is a bit blurry but does show continued decreases in overall facial hair with remaining high density areas continuing to be the lower chin and neck.
I will note that the results seem different this time. In the past there tended to be more hairs broken off that had to push their way out afterwards and I would often pluck those. They never hurt because they were already dead. But now, three days after, there are still zero hairs to pluck, I suspect that HRT is continuing to change facial structure including thinning the skin in a more feminine manner, perhaps making yanking the hairs after being zapped easier.
My electrologist seems to be confident that we're headed the right direction. Oh yeah, total cost this time was $678, a bit more than last time but she also seemed to take a bit more care this time on the neck and jawline.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flizdaybyday.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F09%2Fsession-6-before.jpg%3Fw%3D300%26amp%3Bh%3D215&hash=79700276c40ff893941c90eec5823acf87d498da)
In other news, I have my appointment with my lawyer tomorrow (9/16) to begin the formal legal name and gender change process. If I can obtain all the relevant letters from doctors and such in time, she can include me in the September 29th session she is going to do. I'm looking forward to getting this step done. :)
October 30th, 2014 session
I went into this session very aware that there was a lot less facial hair this time. It's getting thin everywhere now, even the neck. We've still got a ways to go but we've turned the corner on this.
My time in the chair was not quite a full 5 hours this time and total bill with tax was $586. And she took her time this time rather than speeding through. I didn't mind either because there were far fewer "leftover" hairs and now, just 6 days after that, my face really feels smooth and soft. I know it won't stay this way... yet, but it's a promise of things to come.
And... on the morning of November 5th, Wednesday, I got up and went to the bathroom and noticed something that I have never ever seen before as an adult. Looking in that mirror, for the first time in my adult life, there was no discoloration of the skin where facial hair normally grows. Today I could have literally walked out of the house with no makeup and there wouldn't have been a clue that I had ever had facial hair.
I am not done yet. I know this. But the progress has been swift and amazing and I am so very thankful for the professionals at E3000 and the work they do.
Thanks for posting this LizMarie. I have a question. Have you noticed any skin damage or negative results from the electrolysis? I've had a lot done over the years but I still have some hairs left and would love to get them all done at once.
OMG you did 10 straight hours?! :o jaw drops
I know, 20 on 20 off... but... wow...
You're amazing!!! Congrats on having the pain tolerance.
I am undergoing laser, and once my 15 minutes is up, I am ready to turbo run the hell out of there. And I am sure that ^^ is a bit more painful.
December 19th, 2014 session
This was my 8th session at E3000. As a correction, my prior session was just a bit over five hours, not under. This session, on December 19th (a year and a day since I started) was four hours and fifty five minutes - $525.
Additionally, Denise was remarking how she's noticing how sparse the lip and cheek hair is getting finally.
The jawline and lower chin continues to be somewhat thicker though it too is thinning. The center of the neck remains almost as thick as always, not quite, with the added caveat that there are small spots that are showing and staying completely cleared.
I once again used the aspirin therapy starting the night before and continuing on into today and the swelling has been much less than times past. It's still swollen though.
My next session will be February 6th, 2015. We'll see where we stand after that but I'm sure there will be yet more sessions to go, the only question being how many more?
To Alexis, who posted back in November - I go to E3000 because they use lidocaine injections into the face. The shots hurt (especially upper and lower lip) but once an area is numbed, I feel almost nothing while the hairs are removed. In fact, I've fallen asleep in that chair and did so yesterday again. :)
Have you always done full clearances? Isn't one of their big sales pitches 3 treatments and done (or is it an old pitch)?
I see they say most are done by 4th now. But at one point the buzz was three and that is why people flew in to see them..... Maybe when they renamed.
Thanks for posting LizMarie. Have they mentioned anything in passing about it taking longer than usual? 8 sessions seems much more than average to still have thick areas of hair. Sounds a little discouraging compared to all the hype for E3K, but you seem pretty happy with your results so far, right?
Here is the thing with E3000 for me.
1. They use pain killers to make the session easy.
2. They do full facial clears each session.
3. They are only 4 hours drive for me which does not bug me in the least.
I've never seen them advertise "3 and done" so I am unfamiliar with that claim. When we started she told me "probably 7-9 sessions but maybe a few more" and she said this because I had very dense facial hair. But the total reduction has been massive. See the picture below. That was a quick selfie taken today. My hair (human hair wig) is pulled back into a pony tail. But look at my lower face. I am still shaving daily but it's now very sparse and that pic is with no makeup at all aside from some lip gloss. A very trifling light foundation, some powder, and I'm ready to go. Gone are the days of massive makeup prep to hide beard shadow.
The roughness in the face is still there but there is basically no beard shadow left. That roughness comes from three things (I am told):
1. Years of shaving.
2. Remaining hair follicles.
3. The facial skin being far more sensitive now under 2+ years of estrogen than before under testosterone.
All in all, I am quite pleased with the progress. I don't think we'll be done in 9 sessions but I can see 10 or 11 total. And it still will be a bargain given that my original estimate for weekly 1 hour sessions here in Houston was 3 years at $75 per hour which would have totaled about $11,700. This is going to come in at under 18 months. My current expense is about $6150 so far and I expect to spend about another $2000. Even adding $100 overnight food and lodging costs to each trip will only add another thousand to the total, so this is going to probably save me about $2700 and 18 months and I don't have to be in pain constant because of it. Oh, and I only grow the face out for a few days every 6-7 weeks.
I do plan a full facial peel once this is done to help smooth out the complexion and that roughness. I fully expect to have a complexion that no one will be able to tell was ever male. Add in some FFS later and I believe I'm going to look damned good for an older lady. :P
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTq2lB7P.jpg%3F1&hash=4f43b97920314c36eb51345b1244f8bc089c52b8)
Quote from: LizMarie on January 06, 2015, 12:25:51 PM
I do plan a full facial peel once this is done to help smooth out the complexion and that roughness. I fully expect to have a complexion that no one will be able to tell was ever male. Add in some FFS later and I believe I'm going to look damned good for an older lady. :P
After? You look damned good for a lady (older or otherwise, we're all older than someone!) right now!
I think I do look pretty good at this point. A cups in the breast, a nice figure (38-31-37, shooting for 38-29-37 eventually), and my face is pretty good. But there's enough tell-tale male there compared to my sister and my daughter that it bugs me. So after GCS at some point, I'll follow with FFS and a full facial peel. I think at that point, I'll look almost like my mother, may she rest in peace. I always did think she was a beautiful woman and other people said that to so if I can get to look like even a shadow of my mother, I'll be immensely pleased.
As another E3K patient with seven sessions done so far I asked about the amount of sessions to completely remove it. The reply I got back that complete removal takes around 12 sessions, but there is still the possibility of a hair popping up. Mostly it is advertised as around six sessions, but that is because many clients stop coming for various reasons. While I am happy with my results so far I still feel as if I have a long ways to go.
I've got my first appointment scheduled in March and I'd like to make hotel arrangements. I see they've got a couple options with discounts on their site. Any recommendations or experience with those or other alternatives?
I use the Baymont in Lewisville. Make sure the site has been update to reference to the new location in Lewisville. I've not checked the site since before they moved so am not aware if it's updated or not. There are cheaper accomodations, and I've tried a few but been happiest with the Baymont. I show up in androgynous mode, am never given any flack for a female name with a hairy face, and they have a nice continental breakfast before driving over to the office, just a few miles away.
One thing I am noticing is the less hair left, the more irritated my skin gets in the final two weeks before the next appointment, where there are still some concentrations of hair. For me, that's the chin and the jawline, and a very small area right at either corner of the mouth. All of those are far less dense than when we started but still the worst parts of my face (YMMV of course) and with HRT at 28+ months now, the irritation that a large, thick male facial hair does to my skin is quite noticeable. And when there are a lot of them, they are annoying in the extreme.
I love my face for the first 2.5 weeks after a session then it starts coming in thick enough again that I have to resume shaving, and by the 5th or 6th week, it's downright irritating.
Thanks! The Baymont looks like a winner to me. It's cheaper and closer than their cheaper discounted option. The one they suggest has a shuttle service, but since I'll have my car that's not a requirement. (Their site is up to date, and they were very helpful about offering travel and lodging tips when I called to make the appointment.)
Sorry to hear about the irritation, I hope it's done soon!
The image below is a comparison from before my first E3000 session in December 2013 to today, which is immediately before my ninth E3000 session on Friday morning.
Clearly there is still facial hair to be removed but just as clearly there has been a gigantic reduction in total facial hair. The densest areas remain the jawline and the lower chin. The neck is beginning to thin nicely now also. And I took a magnifying mirror and did a rough count - my upper lip probably has about 60-70 total hairs left on it, compared to hundred when I began.
I am fairly certain I will complete facial hair removal sometime this year, and maybe even in the first half of the year. Overall, I am pleased.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYXYsj38.png&hash=74e70f93d448eb5d5d9ac955f592b985b114e5d2)
The latest session, on February 6th, was $565, about 5 hours and 20 minutes total or "a hair more than before" as I joked to a friend. However, Denise remarked that there was noticeably less hair and that she was taking more and more care with each remaining hair now, occasionally zapping the same hair twice when she wasn't certain about it. I'm expecting 3-6 more sessions at this rate but who knows? Facial hair can be rather unpredictable. :)
I had a session on March 12th, of about 4.5 hours, $471 total. Hair reduction continues, slowly but steadily yet there remains a lot of annoying hair especially on the jawline and lower chin. The throat continues to thin out nicely and the cheeks now just have a few stray hairs per session. The upper lip continues to be stubborn, with probably 75-100 total hairs removed during the last 3 sessions each. It's obviously very thin yet just as obviously hairy enough to be bothersome.
My next session will have to wait until July. I was told I should wait at least two months after FFS, which I am doing in late April, so late June or early July made sense. Since I will be going to Thailand in mid-July, I chose to get it done in the first week of July. The next session after that will likely be sometime in September, if it's still needed (which I suspect it will).
My surgeries this year will stretch out my time for finishing facial hair removal but I won't stop at this point, that's for sure!
Thanks for the update. I'm a couple weeks away from my first visit. Feeling kind of anxious, but looking forward to getting it over with.
On my way to Dallas, appointment is in a couple days. It's funny, I'm more worried about coming out to an old friend in the area than spending 14 hours having my face poked, prodded, and zapped.
Incidentally any suggestions for food in the area? I'm thinking I'll want to bring something with me for lunch, and probably something that doesn't involve being out in public for dinner... :-)
I just noticed this, Jeni. Sorry! I always just do fast food via a drive through on the day of my session. I usually eat early before leaving Houston to go to Lewisville since it's a four hour drive approximately. I have the complimentary breakfast at the Baymont, getting up early enough that people don't notice me. And I tend to dress very andro most of the time when doing this.
Thanks, it worked out great. I stopped at Subway in the AM and stuck a sandwich in the fridge there, then on the second day brought in some pizza that I had delivered to the hotel. (I had a friend hanging out with me, so I let him answer the door.)
The hotel was pretty empty, so there wasn't a crowd at breakfast. The first day I just popped down to grab some pastries rather than linger, though. That was more because I didn't want to drool all over the tables trying to eat with my upper lip swollen. :-)
For me it was about a 14 hour drive which I split up into a couple days. They've added more affordable flights into Dallas now, so I think next time I can fly and rent a car for the same cost as the gas and hotel en route. I am also now more confident that my swelling will be at a level where I can be out in public after a day's healing. (I'm booked for two days next time, but even on this one I only needed a couple hours on the second day to clean up my chin.)
I am really, really, really happy with the experience. Well, aside from the whole electrolysis thing. The time in the chair went a thousand times faster than I expected. It helped that there was a really good radio station on (well, great up until ad where the morning deejay did his "ha ha I'm a ->-bleeped-<-" "joke." Even by standards of that "joke" it was pathetic.)
Yeah, the fact they number your face makes it so much easier to tolerate. Like I said before, I've fallen asleep in the chair as they've worked on me.
It's also about 3 weeks since the March 12th clearing and we crossed a threshold. I can let it go an extra day and unless someone gets close t my face, they can't see that there is facial hair there. And where it is, it is very spotty now. Right jawline is almost bare now but the left is a bit thicker. Bottom of the chin remains hairier than anywhere else but even that is far thinner than before.
So this is at 10 sessions for me. I don't know how many more I'll need but there's a light at the end of the tunnel and I don't think it's an oncoming train! :D
This is an update. Progress continues!
After an almost 4 month break, since I had FFS in late April and had to let the face heal before continuing hair removal, I had another session on Thursday, July 2nd, 2015. This was session #11. While it still looked and felt horrible to me, it was far less hair than ever before. Despite nearly 4 months since the last session, there were just 3 hours in the chair this time. Technically it was 4 hours, but she needed to take a few breaks in there as I guess she was assisting a new electrologist who was getting familiar with how things were done while working on another client.
So I was billed for basically 3 hours, $318.
I can't tell how far away it is, but there's light at the end of this tunnel now, finally.
As usual, the Baymont Inn where I usually stay, was courteous both at checkin and checkout (no comments about the bearded lady).
Since I am having GCS in July, my next session will be mid-October, after I've had time to heal down there a bit.
Great! Thanks for the update! Glad things are progressing (and congrats on the FFS and upcoming GRS).
When I was in a few weeks ago, the new electrologists were there. One, who was still in trainee, worked on me the second day. That was a little anxiety-inducing at first, but she was great.
Baymont is great, though I present male when interacting with the front desk so I don't really test those waters. It's nicely quiet, though. It's also nice they've got the Cracker Barrel next door. I mustered up the courage to go in for breakfast with a 3/4-hairless, asymmetrically swollen face last time. Nobody said a thing (though the Texan courtesy runs a little heavy on the "sir" for my tastes...). The Baymont waffles are great, but I felt like something a little different that morning.
Since last fall when I got my court order done, I've not even attempted to pretend male again. Even for these appointments. :) I suspect the Baymont gets its share of E3000 customers. And my IDs and credit card are all in my female name, female pictures. I'd rather honestly explain the facial hair, if asked, than try to deal with me using a woman's credit card while trying to look male anymore. :)
October 18th was session #12 for me at E3000.
It is now more than two weeks later. I am currently shaving only every third day or so. I suspect we're near the end but not quite there. There are a couple patches on the left jawline that are annoying and on the neck. The remainder are all stragglers except for two small clusters of hair at each corner of my mouth (so annoying!).
I was told 70-90 total technician hours. It now looks like that's going to be very close.
I'm almost done, and after FFS, BA, and GCS earlier this year, my medical needs now become routine endocrinology things and just living my life.
I remain super satisfied with E3000. The comfort, compared to electrolysis without lidocaine injections, is huge. And I did that for nine months before booking my first trip to E3000 nearly 2 years ago.
I've had reasonably dense and unfortunately stubborn facial hair, yet they've consistently and professionally tackled it each time.
I have nothing but praise for my personal experience at E3000.
I forgot to put an entry here for my Dec. 18th session. Under 3 hours! Hair is getting very sparse. I'm not sure how many more sessions there will be but the end continues to approach.
Once again, my latest session was done very well and professionally, and I am very happy with the results.
My next session will be Feb. 12th.
LizMarie, are their rates still $110 per hour or have they gone up?
Beverly Ann, yes, their rates are still in that range.
I've had two sessions since the January report. The first was Feb. 12th and was just over three hours. The second was March 29th and was just under three hours.
It was getting frustrating after two years now of continuing to have facial hair growth, even though it was diminished, but as of today, 9+ days after the March 29th session, there's not even a hint of male hair on the face. I'm sure this will change before the next session on May 13th, but I may have crossed another threshold here and we may be down to simply scattered remaining beard follicles. I'll know more in another 7-10 days.
Adding this, since it's informative, I hope. Here are my sessions, times, and prices paid. There's some variation because of amounts of lidocaine used, I believe. Please note that I am now at 81 hours in and after this last session, I feel we are getting really close to done. I am hoping we finish here in the next 2-3 sessions and I am expecting those sessions to be less than the 3 hours lately from recent sessions.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZBSqMs4.jpg&hash=5d668aca731004bfb959d39d23e37f191abf6f91)
Is there some reason it takes 10 - 11 sessions??
I'm wondering if hair density plays a factor. I've had 4 sessions of laser and I'll have my 5th this month. Im 3yrs on hrt and my facial hair isn't dense at all. I'm considering e3000 after my 9th laser session to get whatever strays are left. I'm also wonder if 8k is pretty standard for clearing with them. I've already spent 3k on laser with a 60% off discount. It also includes free sessions for life after the 9th treatment
I had 7 laser sessions and so far am on E3K session #9 coming up. Time will tell how much more I need. This will be the first time that I stick to just the face due to recent GRS. My time with them is probably 20% more than Liz and I would say I'm in now way done with hair clearing. It will probably be another 8-9 sessions but that's life. They are getting shorter though.