The Hidden Impact of Obamacare and the Economy (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hidden-impact-obamacare-economy-103000621.html)
The Fiscal Times | Jacqueline Leo
22 Dec 2013
Obamacare has delivered another sucker punch to the middle class. This time it's sticker shock.
Now that a few people can get past the tech problems of HealthCare.gov and actually see the real cost of insurance plans available, they are finding that Affordable Care is big hit to the family budget. And when the family budget gets hit in the solar plexus, guess what happens to consumer spending and the economy.
In California, policies for about 900,000 Californians are being canceled because of Obamacare's mandates and about 2/3rd of these do not qualify for subsidies, according to The Chicago Tribune. The result—these folks will be paying higher premiums.
In Alabama, premiums have doubled for some middle class families like Courtney Long, a stay-at-home mother of four. She told WHNT News. "It's devastating. I started crying," said Long. "I mean, we have worked so hard to get out of credit card debt, get ahead on the car loan, transfer our mortgage to a 15 from a 30 year mortgage... and for what?"
.... The top 20 percent of income earners account for about 40 percent of all spending in the U.S. When you increase the costs of health care and the new taxes associated with Obamacare, you can hear the wallets closing.
Full article at the link, above.
Get ready for the next Great Depression.
Get to know who bank roles your writer, which by the way has no economics or health-related degree or experience... such a magazine pusher!
Quote
Radical Republicans think that they can roll back the welfare state. Conservative Republicans want to find a way to pay for it that is more efficient than the revenue systems that conservative Democrats will contrive. No one is sharper on these differences than Bartlett, who keeps track of his reading, maintains a blog and writes occasionally for Tax Notes, and posts these articles on the Social Science Research Network (author search required).You can sign up here to for an email edition of his weekly column for The Fiscal Times.
Eventually these differences will resolve. The radical Republicans are going to lose the argument, along with creationists and the deniers of climate change. At some point, a rising generation of conservative Republicans will take over the party. Until then, it's going to be a rough ride. Fasten your seatbelts, please
http://www.economicprincipals.com/issues/2010.10.31/1194.html
"bank roll"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Leo
Rather than make ad hominem attacks against the eZine editor and writer, why not contest the facts? However, I appreciate your implicit argument that a "welfare" state exists, and might I say, is being rapidly expanded.
Quote from: Jamie D on December 22, 2013, 04:28:58 PM
Get ready for the next Great Depression.
At least two "ACA" threads were already locked, here we go again. :icon_dizzy:
Quote from: Jamie D on December 22, 2013, 05:20:43 PM
"bank roll"
Well known fact my dyslexia and foreign tongue gets to me every time....still does not detract the fact that the woman has not credentials, she is just perpetuating the "Reader's Digests" war on the disenfranchised... and that is in Christmas's time... what would Jesus say...the shame of at all!
Quote from: Jamie D on December 22, 2013, 04:28:58 PM
Get ready for the next Great Depression.
*Rolls eyes* This is what republicans said when Obama took office. <sarcasm>Yeah 2013 was so horrible for my portfolio. I hope we can get someone like GWB back in office to repeat what happened in 2008!</sarcasm>
I thought they fixed the problems on the website and it works a lot better now.
For the majority of people who lost coverage... Weren't the plans they had bare-bones awful plans that didn't cover much of anything?
And for the people who don't qualify for subsidies... You have to be pretty well off not to qualify.
Bunch of fear mongering. I'd either be dead or have cancer if it wasn't for the aca, so people who don't like it can kick rocks imo.
It is "cadillac" plans that got canceled. Mine just got more costly than it is worth to have. Cheaper to pay the fines for the next 5 years.
Just a ninja reminder to everyone, we all have differences in opinion, but let's all get along and respect those who differ in those opinions. These topics sometimes flare up emotions, so be sure not to make disagreement on issue into a personal dispute. Even though that hasn't happened yet, I just wanted to throw that out there because it has gone there before (and I've been part of this problem too).
As for the ACA, I'm mixed on how I feel about it. It's impacted my own life in both positive and negative ways. It was positive for me because I got to get on my mother's insurance. I went through a terrible period of unemployment, despite my efforts to get anything, and this was a lifer saver to me. Since I have very little to my name, the coverage of medication, blood work, and doctors visits saved me from being completely destitute and unable to continue my transition. It was negative for me because it caused economic strains for my employer causing a hiring freeze just when I needed my transfer into a permanent full time position after my temp position ended. Because of that, I must get approval from those at the top and have to wait until they make their decision (I'm hopeful though because they really need to fill this position and the hiring freeze can be lifted in certain circumstances). If they don't approve, I may have to wait for the freeze to be lifted or look elsewhere for a job.The ideas behind the legislation were admirable (in my opinion) and did bring about some positive changes, but I think there were a lot of major oversights that should have been addressed. Nonetheless, it's been both a positive and negative in my life. I'm sure there are people that have had different experiences with it (some good and some bad) and we need to remind ourselves that it's not always a black and white issue. I can easily see both sides of the story here and don't begrudge anyone for feeling one way or the other on this topic.
Okay, that's it for me on this subject. Peace and love all! :)
Oh no not another Obamacare thread I thought that fad was over. :P I guess they'll be more pointless arguing over something nobody has any control over. ;)
It's embarrassing that watered-down pandering to the health insurance industry is what passes for socialized health care south of the border. Somewhere, Tommy Douglas is watching this fiasco and shaking his head in dismay.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhero.com%2Fimages%2Fguest%2Fg38270%2Fhero34234%2Fg38270_u36266_Tommy_Douglas_younger.jpg&hash=3c79513e6c77883808370036c22f39094d99f262)
My health insurance premiums have quadrupled under the ACA. The replacement insurance plan is worse, the deductible is higher and has very high copays.
My insurance has skyrocketed to pay for the subsidies (a.k.a., welfare) of other people. My state has allowed the individual mandate delay and I'll have my old plan until January 2015. At that time I will go uninsured for the first time in my life, I can't afford the astronomical premiums. I'll increase my life insurance and just insure my children.
This law is horrendous.
But Obama has corrupted our government with his governance by executive fiat so the next President who doesn't support obamacare can end it easily if he so chooses. Just sign an executive order that removes the mandate... simple.
93 million Americans are expected to lose their employer provided insurance in less than a year (those are this administration's own numbers), maybe then people will care. But hey, as long as YOU aren't being screwed... who cares right? What a shame.
It sky rocketed due to no lifetime limits, and no pre existing condition clauses among other things. Not to cover welfare, insurance has nothing to do with that.
Quote from: GeWnYnNyNwEg on December 24, 2013, 01:14:08 PM
It's embarrassing that watered-down pandering to the health insurance industry is what passes for socialized health care south of the border. Somewhere, Tommy Douglas is watching this fiasco and shaking his head in dismay.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhero.com%2Fimages%2Fguest%2Fg38270%2Fhero34234%2Fg38270_u36266_Tommy_Douglas_younger.jpg&hash=3c79513e6c77883808370036c22f39094d99f262)
Tommy Douglas = "father of the Canadian single payer system"
On the flip side:
For instance, when Robert Bouressa, the Premier of Quebec, had to have his potentially lethal skin cancer treated, he quickly beat a path to the United States and paid for treatment at the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda, Maryland. Source: Nancy Wood, "Missing, But Not Forgotten," McLean's (December 10, 1990): 14.
Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams will be sidelined from three to 12 weeks because of heart surgery he'll undergo at an undisclosed location in the United States, acting premier Kathy Dunderdale says....
"Having the surgery done in the province was never an option that was offered to him," Dunderdale said.
"Ultimately, we have to be the gatekeepers of our own health, and he has taken medical advice from a number of different sources," she said. "Based on all of the medical advice that he's received, he is doing what is best for him, to do everything he can to ensure that he can have the best outcome from the surgery and that he can be back on his feet and back here doing his job as quickly as possible." Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/heart-surgery-to-sideline-n-l-premier-for-weeks-1.869535
OTTAWA–Belinda Stronach, the MP for Newmarket-Aurora and former cabinet minister, travelled outside Canada's health-care system to California for some of her breast cancer treatment earlier this year....
Speed was not the issue, MacEachern said – it was more to do with the type of surgery she and her doctor agreed was best for her, and where it was best performed. The type of cancer Stronach had is called DCIS, ductal carcinoma in situ, one of the more treatable forms.
Stronach, who has announced she is leaving politics to return to executive duties at her father's Magna empire, paid for the procedure. Source: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2007/09/14/stronach_travels_to_us_for_cancer_treatment.html
VANCOUVER, CANADA — When the pain in Christina Woodkey's legs became so severe that she could no long hike or cross-country ski, she went to her local health clinic. The Calgary, Canada, resident was told she'd need to see a hip specialist. Because the problem was not life-threatening, however, she'd have to wait about a year.
So wait she did.
In January, the hip doctor told her that a narrowing of the spine was compressing her nerves and causing the pain. She needed a back specialist. The appointment was set for Sept. 30. "When I was given that date, I asked when could I expect to have surgery," said Woodkey, 72. "They said it would be a year and a half after I had seen this doctor."
So this month, she drove across the border into Montana and got the $50,000 surgery done in two days.
"I don't have insurance. We're not allowed to have private health insurance in Canada," Woodkey said. "It's not going to be easy to come up with the money. But I'm happy to say the pain is almost all gone." Source: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/27/nation/na-healthcare-canada27
To be honest, living in the UK, I don't know much about Obamacare, except for what I read and how its affected my family. My mother has cancer and has had her treatments stopped due the simple problem of the insurance problems with Obamacare. I don't see it getting better anytime soon. She has had nothing but problems since it has started and she is getting more and more worried about her treatment. She has 2 different kinds of cancer at the moment and they won't do anything because of this horrible thing.
if you want to know why obamacare is an absolute fail, its because its being brought into existence by a criminal politician, now i know obama was the first black president and that was a groundbreaking achievement but unfortunately he is absolutely destroying the us economy by trying pay for it with more debt, which intern makes the Canadian economy(where i live) suffer, in Canada we don't see the propaganda filled news that you americans see, one thing to put into perspective is that the US national debt is $17 trillion, and keeping that in mind you should watch this video you will definitely laugh at the end
http://youtu.be/DyLmru6no4U
Quote from: LordKAT on December 25, 2013, 09:51:07 PM
It sky rocketed due to no lifetime limits, and no pre existing condition clauses among other things. Not to cover welfare, insurance has nothing to do with that.
It has everything to do with welfare. Insurance isn't about welfare, but the government is, that's why they stuck their bloated nose into the system to take from some to give to their constituents. It's a massive wealth redistribution scheme and many so-called winners in this theft will be happy. Many won't though, they understand it's wrong to steal.
Let me tell you what insurance is, it's a mechanism for willing participants to spread
THEIR risk over time. The government has forced people to participate AND to pay for other people's risk. That's not insurance. If you get a subsidy, YOU ARE NOT INSURED, YOU ARE ON WELFARE. Congrats.
I don't believe in coercion of this nature, it's un-American. I support a person's right to join a program like obamacare if they freely choose, but don't force it on people.
I'm pro-choice. I believe it's our body our choice. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... how can so many pro-abortion people support obamacare? obamacare IS about our rights to our bodies, our health choices. Abortion isn't at all, it's about killing another human being. How ironic.
This president lied about everything concerning this so-called law. Many of you just don't know yet the ramifications, you're still under a delay of this 'law'.
But hey, like I say, as long as YOU don't get hurt, don't worry about it. Don't worry about the families losing their coverage because they can't afford it. Don't worry about the cancer patients losing their current plans and doctors, thus losing their scheduled procedures and being thrown into chaos. Many of these people literally can't live with any delays or changes in treatment.
But don't worry about it, it's other people, not YOU.
Can someone put all these topics in a can and burn them. This is NOT a USA political site it is an international support site for gender dysphoric people.
This is a political thread, you don't have to participate. The title of the thread gives ample evidence of what this discussion is about.
I wish people would stop bashing my views, but I'm not going to go to threads I'm not interested in and start whining about it.
Good grief.
Quote from: kiaraja on December 26, 2013, 04:58:40 AM
if you want to know why obamacare is an absolute fail, its because its being brought into existence by a criminal politician, now i know obama was the first black president and that was a groundbreaking achievement but unfortunately he is absolutely destroying the us economy by trying pay for it with more debt, which intern makes the Canadian economy(where i live) suffer, in Canada we don't see the propaganda filled news that you americans see, one thing to put into perspective is that the US national debt is $17 trillion, and keeping that in mind you should watch this video you will definitely laugh at the end
http://youtu.be/DyLmru6no4U
And I thought I would never agree with Obama! Excellent. (Am I allowed to post this Cindy? ;D)
I understand the topic will not interest many people. In fairness, the board is described on the main page as,
The forum is intended for political discussion of legislation, laws and issues which affect the entire gender spectrum.
In the United States, the ACA legislation has the potential of negatively affecting 10's of millions of people. And, by our specific exclusion from the law, it also negatively affects us.
Quote from: Jamie D on December 25, 2013, 10:36:50 PM
Tommy Douglas = "father of the Canadian single payer system"
On the flip side:
For instance, when Robert Bouressa, the Premier of Quebec, had to have his potentially lethal skin cancer treated, he quickly beat a path to the United States and paid for treatment at the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda, Maryland. Source: Nancy Wood, "Missing, But Not Forgotten," McLean's (December 10, 1990): 14.
Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams will be sidelined from three to 12 weeks because of heart surgery he'll undergo at an undisclosed location in the United States, acting premier Kathy Dunderdale says....
"Having the surgery done in the province was never an option that was offered to him," Dunderdale said.
"Ultimately, we have to be the gatekeepers of our own health, and he has taken medical advice from a number of different sources," she said. "Based on all of the medical advice that he's received, he is doing what is best for him, to do everything he can to ensure that he can have the best outcome from the surgery and that he can be back on his feet and back here doing his job as quickly as possible." Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/heart-surgery-to-sideline-n-l-premier-for-weeks-1.869535
OTTAWA–Belinda Stronach, the MP for Newmarket-Aurora and former cabinet minister, travelled outside Canada's health-care system to California for some of her breast cancer treatment earlier this year....
Speed was not the issue, MacEachern said – it was more to do with the type of surgery she and her doctor agreed was best for her, and where it was best performed. The type of cancer Stronach had is called DCIS, ductal carcinoma in situ, one of the more treatable forms.
Stronach, who has announced she is leaving politics to return to executive duties at her father's Magna empire, paid for the procedure. Source: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2007/09/14/stronach_travels_to_us_for_cancer_treatment.html
VANCOUVER, CANADA — When the pain in Christina Woodkey's legs became so severe that she could no long hike or cross-country ski, she went to her local health clinic. The Calgary, Canada, resident was told she'd need to see a hip specialist. Because the problem was not life-threatening, however, she'd have to wait about a year.
So wait she did.
In January, the hip doctor told her that a narrowing of the spine was compressing her nerves and causing the pain. She needed a back specialist. The appointment was set for Sept. 30. "When I was given that date, I asked when could I expect to have surgery," said Woodkey, 72. "They said it would be a year and a half after I had seen this doctor."
So this month, she drove across the border into Montana and got the $50,000 surgery done in two days.
"I don't have insurance. We're not allowed to have private health insurance in Canada," Woodkey said. "It's not going to be easy to come up with the money. But I'm happy to say the pain is almost all gone." Source: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/27/nation/na-healthcare-canada27
Excellent. Sadly this is a very small tip of the ice berg.
So many people seem to think a person is born a doctor or surgeon. They are not. It's a professional choice among many. There's a reason the U.S. has the most talented doctors in the world. We're already hearing stories of doctors planning early retirement or looking for new professions due to the hassle of this profession. Great doctors have a strong entrepreneurial spirit, they will leave this profession as their choices and freedoms disappear. It's what's happening in these single-payer systems, the quality and talent of healthcare is dropping in these systems.
Message to everyone,
There is no reason to make your disagreement into a personal dispute. Share your opinion and criticize the beliefs expressed here if you want, but don't personally critique other people for not sharing your view or make comments that can easily be interpreted that way. Let's respect one another and get along despite the differences of our views, it's a support site first and foremost.
Quote from: Cindy on December 26, 2013, 08:22:36 AM
Can someone put all these topics in a can and burn them. This is NOT a USA political site it is an international support site for gender dysphoric people.
I agree, but there was a political section placed on the board as well as many other unrelated topics, so I feel it is fair game and there is nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions. Nonetheless, the tone of forum should be consistent with support and understanding.
I like a lot of the parts of the ACA - the pre-existing conditions clause, the being able to have your kids on your plan until they are 26, and so on. These are excellent, forward thinking ideas that really help people. Another great idea in the ACA is the ability for some people to be able to get coverage that they otherwise would not be able to get, at a price point they can afford.
Unfortunately, there are parts of the law that were not well thought out, or were put there for political purposes. The ACA is a massive piece of legislation and there was a lot of room in it for these less desirable conditions to be hidden in the law, and now that we are able to "read it" we are finding out about them. Things like requiring maternity coverage for a 70 year old man which makes no sense. I have read lots of stories about people's premiums doubling or tripling for new plans with much higher deductibles and less coverage.
Out of curiosity I looked on a state exchange and a plan that has a similar monthly cost as my existing plan provided by my employer would cost me a lot more in out of pocket expenses to meet the deductible. A serious medical emergency would effectively wipe me out before the deductible is met.
I think that ultimately the voters will decide the fate of the ACA one way or the other.
Quote from: Eva Marie on December 26, 2013, 09:28:37 AM
I like a lot of the parts of the ACA - the pre-existing conditions clause, the being able to have your kids on your plan until they are 26, and so on. These are excellent, forward thinking ideas that really help people. Another great idea in the ACA is the ability for some people to be able to get coverage that they otherwise would not be able to get, at a price point they can afford.
Unfortunately, there are parts of the law that were not well thought out, or were put there for political purposes. The ACA is a massive piece of legislation and there was a lot of room in it for these less desirable conditions to be hidden in the law, and now that we are able to "read it" we are finding out about them. Things like requiring maternity coverage for a 70 year old man which makes no sense. I have read lots of stories about people's premiums doubling or tripling for new plans with much higher deductibles and less coverage.
Out of curiosity I looked on a state exchange and a plan that has a similar monthly cost as my existing plan provided by my employer would cost me a lot more in out of pocket expenses to meet the deductible. A serious medical emergency would effectively wipe me out before the deductible is met.
I think that ultimately the voters will decide the fate of the ACA one way or the other.
All great points. I think the mandated maternity coverage for a 70 year old man (or woman) should be all one needs to know to support repealing this legislation and putting together a sound policy. I think having young healthy people pay two to three times more than their expected insurance costs to subsidize wealthier older people is also terrible.
Just saw this, thought I'd share. Reminds me of torture and death by a thousand cuts... this will only get worse.
http://nypost.com/2013/12/25/new-obamacare-fees-coming-in-2014/ (http://nypost.com/2013/12/25/new-obamacare-fees-coming-in-2014/)
I also recently learned of a man whose wife receive benefits through Medicaid, upon her passing, the government seized her and their joint property. I recommend getting informed.
Just found a similar article related to this...........
http://www.elderlawanswers.com/medicaid-recovery-of-home-catches-many-families-by-surprise--5915 (http://www.elderlawanswers.com/medicaid-recovery-of-home-catches-many-families-by-surprise--5915)
And another...
http://ezinearticles.com/?What-is-the-Medicaid-Estate-Recovery-Program?&id=2632409 (http://ezinearticles.com/?What-is-the-Medicaid-Estate-Recovery-Program?&id=2632409)
Also note, obamacare rules are consistently encroaching on us (as the very first article shows) and these rules will continue to affect more and more conditions and people.
This stuff is all over the place, you have to try to not know this at this point...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/25/affordability-healthcaregov-plans-usa-counties/4165513/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/25/affordability-healthcaregov-plans-usa-counties/4165513/)
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/after-month-trying-i-still-cant-sign-obamacare_772303.html (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/after-month-trying-i-still-cant-sign-obamacare_772303.html)
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/26/patchwork-obamacare-insurance-deadlines-adds-to-confusion/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/26/patchwork-obamacare-insurance-deadlines-adds-to-confusion/)
BTW, next November (2014), I'm going to start a thread called "See I told you so, please post your apologies here...". For real... >:-)
Too many of the policies the country has are drawn up by people who know nothing about the particular field. How can insurance companies tell me what I need to help stay healthy? Another example: Ben Bernanke is the spokesperson for the banking industry and he doesn't even work in the industry. He's a lawyer! Both Democrats and Republicans have it all wrong. The left doesn't do any scholarship about topics; the right gets it wrong all the time. That's why the country is in the mess that it's in.
I tried to get in the last day of registering. The options available in Colorado are $ 450+ a month with a $400 deductable with very little medication discount at age 61. I haven't yet rack a yearly doctor's bill of over $400, despite my problems. There is no discount whatsoever here! That is $5,400 plus yearly with me paying full for doctor's visits under $400 over the year. That plus my yearly cost of living (home & auto repairs and insurance, taxes, food, utilities, etc.) would have me running out of money by year's end. My neuropathy problems prevent me from getting a job and my application for disability hasn't come through yet with a yea or nay answer.
That's what we get when we elect lawyers to office!
Joelene
Don't feel bad, your options are better than mine! My new plan deductible is $6,500 (in network) and $19,500 (out of network), and my new network is very slim to say the least. What's most concerning is my copay, it's anywhere from 25% to 50% depending on the medical service rendered. A major illness will bankrupt me and I'll never receive any benefit from anything other than major illness. My new plan is a joke. Fortunately, I have my old plan for another year. Oh but dang, I don't have maternity coverage!! What will I do????? ;)
Quote from: Nikko on December 26, 2013, 11:02:15 AM
This stuff is all over the place, you have to try to not know this at this point...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/25/affordability-healthcaregov-plans-usa-counties/4165513/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/25/affordability-healthcaregov-plans-usa-counties/4165513/)
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/after-month-trying-i-still-cant-sign-obamacare_772303.html (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/after-month-trying-i-still-cant-sign-obamacare_772303.html)
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/26/patchwork-obamacare-insurance-deadlines-adds-to-confusion/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/26/patchwork-obamacare-insurance-deadlines-adds-to-confusion/)
BTW, next November (2014), I'm going to start a thread called "See I told you so, please post your apologies here...". For real... >:-)
With the "employer mandate" coming due, employees being cut back from 40 hours per week to <30 hours per week (so they don't have to be covered by the employer anymore), and layoff notices coming, I expect the anger of the public will be played out in the General Election.
The plan to uninsure or underinsure or bankrupt 100 million people, so 30 million can be cared for, is pure genius! ;)
Quote from: Cindy on December 26, 2013, 08:22:36 AM
Can someone put all these topics in a can and burn them. This is NOT a USA political site it is an international support site for gender dysphoric people.
Sorry people I was in a place no one should be in last night, it was an anniversary of an event that is difficult to live with, but I do and will.
I was lashing out in sadness.
My apologies.
Quote from: Jamie D on December 26, 2013, 02:12:56 PM
With the "employer mandate" coming due, employees being cut back from 40 hours per week to <30 hours per week (so they don't have to be covered by the employer anymore), and layoff notices coming, I expect the anger of the public will be played out in the General Election.
The plan to uninsure or underinsure or bankrupt 100 million people, so 30 million can be cared for, is pure genius! ;)
I suspect the 2014 midterms will be very bad for those who supported obamacare. Every republican campaign commercial should just be Obama's own words...... "If you like you current insurance plan...", etc., etc. :D
Quote from: Cindy on December 26, 2013, 02:35:58 PM
Sorry people I was in a place no one should be in last night, it was an anniversary of an event that is difficult to live with, but I do and will.
I was lashing out in sadness.
My apologies.
Very sorry to hear that, sorry for my flippant remark as well. Hope you feel much better soon, some anniversaries can be difficult to deal with. :(
Oh thank goodness the super sleuths are there ready to expose the hidden horrors of modest reforms to the health insurance industry that costs us more than any other industrialized nation and gives us less for it. We are saved!
Hopefully we can also soon expose the hidden impacts of unemployment insurance, social security, medicare and food for hungry children.
Let them eat cake and pray for health the rugged individualist up by the bootstraps way. Why can't children just get a job? Or as a recent politico advised, have the kids getting food sweep the floor at school.
Ahh these happy holidays of sharing and caring.
Quote from: Tessa James on December 26, 2013, 03:01:45 PM
Oh thank goodness the super sleuths are there ready to expose the hidden horrors of modest reforms to the health insurance industry that costs us more than any other industrialized nation and gives us less for it. We are saved!
Hopefully we can also soon expose the hidden impacts of unemployment insurance, social security, medicare and food for hungry children.
Let them eat cake and pray for health the rugged individualist up by the bootstraps way. Why can't children just get a job? Or as a recent politico advised, have the kids getting food sweep the floor at school.
Ahh these happy holidays of sharing and caring.
1. Unemployment insurance beyond a certain point worsens the unemployment situation by dis-incentivizing people to work.
2. Social security should be called socialized insecurity. The money has been long spent by greedy politicians and there aren't enough young people to tax to pay the promised benefits to the retirees. Get ready to receive less and work until you're eighty. Privatized plans would've benefited everyone much more.
3. Medicare is going broke and more and more doctors are refusing medicare patients, the reimbursement rate puts doctors on par with Buddhist Priests who have taken vows of poverty.
4. Poor children in the U.S. are more likely to suffer from obesity than starvation.
How'd I do? ;D
Happy Holidays!
Addendum to my above post: I rechecked the Colorado marketplace and the deductable ranges around $5,000 not $400. I checked on my disability application online and found out that a response for my application has been mailed. I will find out in a few days. Otherwise for my application for ineligibility for Obamacare will take 2 months after I apply for medicare and get rejected! Bureaucracy!
Joelene
I'm not going to worry about all of this stuff. I am just going to see what happens. I have medical insurance at the moment and I already got my letter from the insurance company informing me of my rate for the new year. The increase was the usual bit that has been the norm. No sort of sticker shock. IF that does occur....I don't know.
I'm not going to stress myself out at this point. I'm just going to take this as it comes. Hell, it's ultimately out of my hands anyway.
Quote from: Nikko on December 26, 2013, 04:21:56 PM
1. Unemployment insurance beyond a certain point worsens the unemployment situation by dis-incentivizing people to work.
2. Social security should be called socialized insecurity. The money has been long spent by greedy politicians and there aren't enough young people to tax to pay the promised benefits to the retirees. Get ready to receive less and work until you're eighty. Privatized plans would've benefited everyone much more.
3. Medicare is going broke and more and more doctors are refusing medicare patients, the reimbursement rate puts doctors on par with Buddhist Priests who have taken vows of poverty.
4. Poor children in the U.S. are more likely to suffer from obesity than starvation.
How'd I do? ;D
Happy Holidays!
Thank you Nikko. Seriously, I needed a good laugh and a good tweek back
Tweek?!
AAAAAHH!!!! THAT'S TOO MUCH PRESSURE!!!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20101223143649%2Fsouthpark%2Fimages%2Fe%2Feb%2FTweek_Tweak.png&hash=a6dc9b10c273d11e8903a22a689707fbc178fdb1)
Quote from: Tessa James on December 26, 2013, 08:19:47 PM
Thank you Nikko. Seriously, I needed a good laugh and a good tweek back
I thought you'd find it somewhat humorous... mission accomplished. :)
Quote from: Nikko on December 26, 2013, 08:06:27 AM
Let me tell you what insurance is, it's a mechanism for willing participants to spread THEIR risk over time.
What we have now isn't insurance. What we have now is middle-men and big government inflating healthcare costs. Insurance shouldn't cover pre-existing conditions, because they are pre-existing. That would be like me being up to my neck in floodwater, and then using my cellphone to call the insurance agency and try to buy a flood insurance policy. Insurance has historically been a pool of money from a large group of people that might be paid out to a small group of people in the event of unlikely circumstances. With the pre-existing condition clause, it has become a pool of money from a large group of people that WILL be paid out in the event of LIKELY circumstances, some of which are already known. Premiums and taxes MUST rise to pay for that.
Forcing insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions would be like forcing home insurance companies to offer me flood insurance when I am up to my neck in water.
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!
But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.
Quote from: Stephe on December 28, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!
But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.
What am I??? Chopped liver??? ;)
With all due respect Stephe, the shame is on you.
This topic is harming many of us and I found it very helpful to discuss. Again, for those who have very limited comfort zones, please stay clear of these topics, it's not worth it.
I wish you well dear.
Quote from: Stephe on December 28, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!
But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.
If there wasn't a politics board, you'd have a point, but there is and that's where these posts are placed. I'm no conservative as anyone can tell you and Jamie and I don't agree on much at all, but I don't think it's fair to call Jamie out like this. I've gotten irritated by some of the constant political bickering before and hate the partisan tone the boards can take at times; however, Susan decided to include this board and it's her site. Give Jamie some credit. He/she (sorry not sure which pronoun to use) isn't such a bad person.
Quote from: Stephe on December 28, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!
But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.
Stephe,
Your being really unfair with those comments. Regardless of the ACA and its positive/negative aspects, people have the right to discuss them. Accusing members of being right wing extremist for voicing their opinion is totally out of bounds. If you think any of the comments in this thread are "right wing extremist", then you don't get around much. We're all in the same boat(Trans). ???
To top it all off, you threaten to leave the forum. Trying to make everyone think the big bad "non liberal" members are the cause. Or is your plan to get the thread shut down, that way nobody can say anything negative about the all mighty Obamacare? ::)
Quote from: Nikko on December 26, 2013, 08:28:14 AM
This is a political thread, you don't have to participate. The title of the thread gives ample evidence of what this discussion is about.
I wish people would stop bashing my views, but I'm not going to go to threads I'm not interested in and start whining about it.
Good grief.
Sure hope this was not directed at the MODERATOR. :o
Quote from: DanicaCarin on December 29, 2013, 01:16:21 AM
Stephe,
Your being really unfair with those comments. Regardless of the ACA and its positive/negative aspects, people have the right to discuss them. Accusing members of being right wing extremist for voicing their opinion is totally out of bounds. If you think any of the comments in this thread are "right wing extremist", then you don't get around much. We're all in the same boat(Trans). ???
To top it all off, you threaten to leave the forum. Trying to make everyone think the big bad "non liberal" members are the cause. Or is your plan to get the thread shut down, that way nobody can say anything negative about the all mighty Obamacare? ::)
The funny thing is I'm a huge hippie lefty and even I'm mixed with the affordable care act. I have major issues with Obama and the current political environment, but I am no conservative and probably more progressive than most people you will meet. Not all disagreement with the President or his party's platform is coming from the right or "extreme" right. If it does, I would be a very interesting addition to the tea party, lol.
Having said that, I do hate when we have threads that were created with the sole purpose of bashing one side or the other on this forum which does occur from time to time. It happens to both sides and it can be annoying when we forget our purpose is to build an inclusive and supportive environment. And as a lefty, some of the conservative liberal bashing threads can irk me at times and make me feel alienated, so I can understand why people can get annoyed; however, I don't think Jamie has any malicious intent, and I refuse to believe that she/he (sorry about the pronoun confusion) is trying to stir up hatred of members to them against one another.
Quote from: learningtolive on December 29, 2013, 07:05:42 AM
The funny thing is I'm a huge hippie lefty and even I'm mixed with the affordable care act. I have major issues with Obama and the current political environment, but I am no conservative and probably more progressive than most people you will meet. Not all disagreement with the President or his party's platform is coming from the right or "extreme" right. If it does, I would be a very interesting addition to the tea party, lol.
Having said that, I do hate when we have threads that were created with the sole purpose of bashing one side or the other on this forum which does occur from time to time. It happens to both sides and it can be annoying when we forget our purpose is to build an inclusive and supportive environment. And as a lefty, some of the conservative liberal bashing threads can irk me at times and make me feel alienated, so I can understand why people can get annoyed; however, I don't think Jamie has any malicious intent, and I refuse to believe that she/he (sorry about the pronoun confusion) is trying to stir up hatred of members to them against one another.
I know the feeling Learning..... I'm a Libertarian. I think the US government is the biggest criminal enterprise in the history of Man. The Dem's & Repub"s are full of meadow muffins and the Country is one step away from bankruptcy. If we all stopped listening to the BS, started voting on results & the Constitution, we would be much better off.
Happy New Year....
Quote from: learningtolive on December 28, 2013, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: Stephe on December 28, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!
But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.
If there wasn't a politics board, you'd have a point, but there is and that's where these posts are placed. I'm no conservative as anyone can tell you and Jamie and I don't agree on much at all, but I don't think it's fair to call Jamie out like this. I've gotten irritated by some of the constant political bickering before and hate the partisan tone the boards can take at times; however, Susan decided to include this board and it's her site. Give Jamie some credit. He/she (sorry not sure which pronoun to use) isn't such a bad person.
LTL is correct. This is the politics board. We also have boards for all kinds of topics unrelated to TG issues. We also have the ignore board and ignore topic feature. There are some boards that I stay away from. You have options. You can ignore the entire politics board or a single thread. Tips on how to do so from a member:
QuoteQuote from: big head horsey-face on December 21, 2013, 03:08:57 pm
Go to your profile, under modify profile-->look and layout, you will go to the bottom and there is a spot that says "Show quick moderation as" and you set it to checkboxes. Then when you are in unread topics, there will be little checkboxes by the topics that you can check and then choose ignore topics at the top right by mark selected messages as read.
You can even ignore a member if their posts bother you. There's no reason to leave the site over one small area. Plenty of other non-political discussions going on. Hope you stick around. :)
Quote from: Stephe on December 28, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Jamie, this antagonist fear mongering is why I left this forum and rarely come here anymore. There are a ZILLION forums to discuss politics but you constantly INSIST on trying to stir up hatred and political infighting posting this stuff here. SHAME ON YOU!
But I have come to realize some conservatives have NO BOUNDS on where they feel it is OK to talk about this stuff. Time to go away again and let you and the other ring wing extremists use yet ANOTHER unrelated forum to push your agenda.
I echo Steph general position that JamieD, as a long standing "anchor" on this forum should not initiate threads -like this one- that are going to lead to nothing but dissent.
On the other hand I do not think that JamieD does this constant pro extreme right campaigning out of malice but rather out of a true political and religious beliefs, and that we should respect JamieD rights to do so. We should abstain from personal attacks to good old JamieD, and agree to disagree.
Susan's forum is a microcosm that truly parallels the what is going on the world at large.
The globalization of the world, and specifically the globalization of the western culture has brought this philosophical diametrically-opposed groups to continued and more visible "war" on the nature of human relationships, and the roles of the state laws.
Lets look at the history of the west for the past two hounded years, the two sides (liberal vs conservatives have been fighting over:
slavery,
racism,
children labor laws,
women right to vote,
the rights of the so called minorities,
the rights of women,
the rights of poor people to food and health care and education,
the rights of homosexuals, and more recently,
the rights of transgender people
I agree with FA. There are many sections on susan's which if I went there I would get into arguments and I hate being in arguments so I don't go there. The politics board is probably one of them.
Quote from: learningtolive on December 28, 2013, 02:26:20 PM
If there wasn't a politics board, you'd have a point, but there is and that's where these posts are placed. I'm no conservative as anyone can tell you and Jamie and I don't agree on much at all, but I don't think it's fair to call Jamie out like this. I've gotten irritated by some of the constant political bickering before and hate the partisan tone the boards can take at times; however, Susan decided to include this board and it's her site. Give Jamie some credit. He/she (sorry not sure which pronoun to use) isn't such a bad person.
They, them, their.
LOL, I think I'll take "isn't such a bad person"! ;)
Okay, for the people complaining about deductible costs.
For each insurance company I've had, the deductible has been high.
On my latest plan before i got employer coverage, it was a terribly expensive private plan under my parents. Deductible was like five grand with 250$ emergency room copays. BUT, for doctor visits, I never paid more than the copay to see them, unless it was a specialist.
Unless this evil Barack Hitler Obama law changes how deductibles work, you will only be responsible for the deductible costs for procedures like surgeries, and once you fulfill your deductible, you don't have one for the rest of the year. I don't know how other plans work for other people, but all four plans I've had in my life have worked this way
Quote from: VeryGnawty on December 27, 2013, 09:27:34 AM
What we have now isn't insurance. What we have now is middle-men and big government inflating healthcare costs. Insurance shouldn't cover pre-existing conditions, because they are pre-existing. That would be like me being up to my neck in floodwater, and then using my cellphone to call the insurance agency and try to buy a flood insurance policy. Insurance has historically been a pool of money from a large group of people that might be paid out to a small group of people in the event of unlikely circumstances. With the pre-existing condition clause, it has become a pool of money from a large group of people that WILL be paid out in the event of LIKELY circumstances, some of which are already known. Premiums and taxes MUST rise to pay for that.
Forcing insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions would be like forcing home insurance companies to offer me flood insurance when I am up to my neck in water.
I have ulcerative colitis. It's a genetic autoimmune disease of the colon.
I was diagnosed when I was twenty one. If the aca didn't roll out when it did, allowing me to stay on my parents' plan until I was twenty six, I don't know where I would be.
Medications for maintenance without insurance would cost sixteen hundred usd/month, not counting doctor visits.
I would be uninsurable due to this 'pre-existing condition'
It seems that the only people not wanting pre-existing conditions to be covered don't have such conditions themselves, hence the childish flood insurance analogy that comes up. It's the typical conservative "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality
Quote from: Hideyoshi on December 30, 2013, 09:10:17 AM
I have ulcerative colitis. It's a genetic autoimmune disease of the colon.
I was diagnosed when I was twenty one. If the aca didn't roll out when it did, allowing me to stay on my parents' plan until I was twenty six, I don't know where I would be.
Medications for maintenance without insurance would cost sixteen hundred usd/month, not counting doctor visits.
I would be uninsurable due to this 'pre-existing condition'
It seems that the only people not wanting pre-existing conditions to be covered don't have such conditions themselves, hence the childish flood insurance analogy that comes up. It's the typical conservative "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality
Not true in my case. I have a serious pre-existing condition. We have an amazing health care system, people who say otherwise have no clue what they're talking about, it has saved my life twice already. If we had a single-payer system, based on the urgency of care I needed both times, I wouldn't be alive under this system... unless I was a cat and had nine lives. My biggest fear is the loss in quality of health care this law WILL cause.
But again, I support people's right to choose what's best for them and am totally against this heavy handed coercion of our federal government to force people to pay for things they can't afford, and that is the law now. It has to be repealed, I see Howard Dean is now out against this mandate.......... it's a matter of time before this disaster is repealed. We should all hope anyway.
Quote from: peky on December 29, 2013, 10:04:46 AM
I echo Steph general position that JamieD, as a long standing "anchor" on this forum should not initiate threads -like this one- that are going to lead to nothing but dissent.
Actually, I'd say there were a LOT of respondents that were in full agreement, most in fact it appears. Some dissenters were just very intolerant and noisy, no surprises there........ truth is never easy for some.
Quote from: Nikko on December 30, 2013, 02:22:31 PM
Not true in my case. I have a serious pre-existing condition.
What was that condition? And did you have health care at the time? How much were your premiums? Could you even get insured with that condition? I was only able to stay on my parent's plan because of the ACA, otherwise I was 'ineligible.' It cost $600/month for my insurance premiums from when I was 23 to now (which makes me kind of raise an eyebrow at the person who was talking of $400/month at 61 years old being a lot), then I finally got employer healthcare coverage.
QuoteWe have an amazing health care system, people who say otherwise have no clue what they're talking about, it has saved my life twice already. If we had a single-payer system, based on the urgency of care I needed both times, I wouldn't be alive under this system... unless I was a cat and had nine lives. My biggest fear is the loss in quality of health care this law WILL cause.
But again, I support people's right to choose what's best for them and am totally against this heavy handed coercion of our federal government to force people to pay for things they can't afford, and that is the law now. It has to be repealed, I see Howard Dean is now out against this mandate.......... it's a matter of time before this disaster is repealed. We should all hope anyway.
If by amazing, you mean that when somebody is uninsured, they can wait until they are deathly ill and then head to the emergency room and get immediate treatment, then roll the dice on whether or not the hospital will forgive their bill? What an amazing system to expensively treat problems as they come rather than provide preventive care.
If we have an amazing system, why are we 34th in infant mortality? First in cost per capita by nearly double? 37th overall in healthcare? Why are we this outlier of the civilized world where everybody else can provide healthcare for all of their citizens but not the US?
The ACA is NOT what I wanted, which was socialized medicine. Yes, there will be a few people who will be dissatisfied, but it's better than what we had before for the population as a whole. Definitely.
Quote from: Hideyoshi on December 30, 2013, 09:10:17 AM
It's the typical conservative "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality
Not really fair. I am a traditionalist and an individualist "republitarian." Most would say that I am on the conservative side of the political spectrum, but I hold moderate social values.
I have written about my middle daughter, who has Crohn's. I have written about how I have helped in raising thousands of dollars for the Crohns & Colitis Foundation of America. I have also participated in the last two "Take Steps" campaigns. I freely give my time and money to the cause of finding treatments and cures for the diseases from which you and my daughter suffer.
I'm not sure I would call that a "To hell with everyone else" mentality.
My concern is about the effect of poorly written and incompetently executed law.
QuoteWhat was that condition? And did you have health care at the time? How much were your premiums? Could you even get insured with that condition?
I had surgery to save both my kidneys eight years ago. Since that time, I've been able to get insurance, but not for this particular condition, I have an endorsed policy with this exclusion. I didn't lose my insurance due to this pre-condition, I lost my insurance because I switched jobs and thus switched insurance. One of the republican ideas that have been around for some time now is to de-couple our insurance from our employer so that when you change jobs you don't change insurance.
QuoteIt's the typical conservative "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality
I can't tell you how sad and utterly misguided this thinking is. I grew up in a very conservative environment. The compassion and giving spirit was unbelievable and I'll never lose site of it and it's importance to one's spirit and happiness. As an adult, I now live in far more progressive areas and I can tell you there is NO comparison. The reason I'm most against obamacare and other coercive government programs is because they hurt people. I have seen an attitude regarding this topic of 'well, I'll have to wait to see how this law affects ME'. I would be against this law even (especially) if I got it for free at someone else's expense. I don't care how rich or poor the other person happens to be, it's still theft in my view.
I'm a firm believer in helping those who currently find themselves in a position they need help. But greedy people who take advantage of this system (and they're plentiful) are rotten citizens who should be ashamed of themselves. I believe there are a lot of people who are free-loaders who believe otherwise. I agree with one of Dr. Phil's points, if you're unemployed, your full time job is finding a job. You spend as much time looking for work as you would doing work if employed, that means eight hours a day looking for work, and not just on a computer sending out resumes, but pounding the pavement talking to potential employers. My guess is a lot of people don't do this, they feel entitled to living off of others or don't even see it that way.
Real compassion to me is getting as many people as possible self sufficient and living meaningful lives. Huge numbers on assistance is not compassion, it's pathetic.
QuoteOn the point about unemployment, I have to disagree that most don't do much to secure employment.
Couple points on that. There have been studies in various countries that show there is a huge spike in employment just prior to the end of benefits, regardless of the length of benefits. For example, if it's two months versus 24 months, there's low employment of these people until the very end, pretty good evidence. Plus, numerous people admit to it. I hired a painter this summer to paint my home and I asked him about his crew, their experience, etc. He mentioned how difficult the hiring process is because ninety percent who apply don't want a job, but rather are looking for proof of job 'searching' to remain on unemployment benefits. NINETY percent... his estimate anyway, he may have been exaggerating but it makes sense. If you're able bodied, you should be able to find
something in short order to get off taxpayer assistance, unless painting houses is 'beneath' them, sure isn't for me.
QuoteAll I can say is the ACA was a lifesaver for me because it allowed me to go on my mother's policy when I was in need.
But I want the beneficiaries to understand there are people losing their insurance because of this 'law'. A lot of young people's parents are losing their health insurance and the young are being asked to pay double and triple appropriate premiums for them to pay for the elderly. That's not right.
Again, I believe in helping those who can't afford health insurance. But how many of these people gave up cable television and their expensive phone plans before forgoing health insurance? I don't know, but it's not zero.
Blowing up the whole system to deal with 5-10% of the population who many can afford but choose not to insure is ridiculous.
QuoteI don't mind plans being cancelled if they lacked certain standards and were just insurance in name only, but I do know that deductibles and premiums for many of the decent plans have changed.
You don't mind that I'm soon to be uninsured, but I do. I don't need maternity coverage, etc.
I feel you're in the group that if it benefits you, you support it and if it doesn't you won't, but I could be wrong but it sounds correct.
I'm not in that group. I'm against this law even if I got the world's biggest exemption (and there are many for Obama's favored constituents like unions, etc.) and got it for free.
The only good thing for me personally though is, I no longer regret not going into medicine.
I believe in freedom and it's our greatest asset that we're giving up. I'm cool with you choosing to do that, but I'd like to be free to choose freedom. It works best every time it's tried. Plus, you don't need tall barbed wire fences to keep people from escaping, that's a nice bonus feature IMO. ;)
Hi friends :police:
This conversation is getting a bit too heated folks
Time to take a break and find something else to do with yourselves awhile
Topic locked
Thank you
V M