This is inspired by one of the FTM threads that posted a few weeks ago. There is research going on that is looking at how genes control the "sex" of the gonads even into adulthood. Around 2009, the European Molecular Biology Lab isolated a gene that allows ovaries to remain ovaries and in 2011 researchers at the Univ. of Minnesota identified the antagonistic gene that allows testes to stay testes. By manipulating these genes in adult mice they've been able to transform testicular cells into ovarian cells and visa versa. While the switched cells don't produce eggs or sperm, they do produce the estrogen and testosterone that corresponds to their new identities. Studies are still incomplete and in their infancy, but this may eventually explain the pathway by which some other species change sexes in adulthood.
The article is at...
blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/07/20/one-gene-keeps-mickey-from-turning-into-minnie
If anyone has an update on this, please post.
I was unaware they found the gene in men. Thought it was a one way trip >.>
At any rate I'm sure that in the next 15 years or so they will have developed the necessary advances in gene therapy and stem cell applications to make trans folks fully functional xx females and xy males.
I would guess that if it were possible to convert testes to ovaries, they wouldn't be fertile and would only be useful in producing estrogen. Natal women are born with their ovaries containing all the eggs they will ever have. Seems unlikely that eggs could grow after testes are fully formed.
On a related note, I met with a fertility doctor to store sperm and he told me of new research that is making progress towards a technique that could allow for male genetic material (from sperm) to be put into an egg, then to have the egg's DNA removed, thereby making an egg that contains only the sperm's DNA, which could then be fertilized by a male partner's sperm (which would then be carried by a surrogate). He said it was very early and if it ends up being possible, it would be about 10 years out.
I do wonder about some of the unsuspected and perhaps unexplored effects of estrogen on us - we are all aware that estrogen gives us breasts and nice skin and slimmer skeletons from alterations to the bone-muscle connections but as my surgeon says that my new vagina now looks indistinguishable from a genuine one I do wonder if the estrogen I take and the fact that the operation put some of the penis skin inside has actually made that skin remember it was female at birth until it got the dose of testo at about 6 weeks?
Logically it is possible that the estrogen is able to trick the penis skin into reverting to female type which in the womb makes the vagina.
As our bodies' cells are in a state of constant renewal it might be that MtF transsexuals new vaginas do become very much like the real thing after some time.
I'd like to hear from a FtM about whether or not a clitoris enlarged from testosterone therapy loses the softness of the original article and gets a rougher skin more like a natural penis?
Quote from: Thylacin on December 23, 2013, 09:12:29 AM
On a related note, I met with a fertility doctor to store sperm and he told me of new research that is making progress towards a technique that could allow for male genetic material (from sperm) to be put into an egg, then to have the egg's DNA removed, thereby making an egg that contains only the sperm's DNA, which could then be fertilized by a male partner's sperm (which would then be carried by a surrogate). He said it was very early and if it ends up being possible, it would be about 10 years out.
On the subject of sperm and eggs... there's some research going on in the UK and Japan that shows some promise of creating sperm from a woman's stem cells and eggs from a man's stem cells. They can even create the basic germ cells that create sperm and eggs and implant them in sterile mice to restore fertility.
There are still a lot of issues to work out but given time, (and a surrogate womb for M/M couples), it should be possible for same sex couples to reproduce.
The science is there... but it may take a lot longer for the ethics of the procedure to be approved.
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/tech-researchers-make-sperm-and-eggs-from-adult-skin-cells-082613
very interesting..
maybe there still hope for a m2f mommy...
That something that makes me very sad, that I cant fall pregnant. Woman say its wonderful. But with science who knows.. I am almost 24.. so in ten years or so I will only be 34.. even 15 years I will only be 39... I could still have a baby..
M2F will not be able to give natural birth, due to our hips...
I had an interesting thought about MTF gene therapy. What about the sperm itself? Men produce female DNA (sperm), and it is similar to your own DNA as well. Could your own female sperm be used for MTF gene therapy?
Quote from: Thylacin on December 23, 2013, 09:12:29 AM
I would guess that if it were possible to convert testes to ovaries, they wouldn't be fertile and would only be useful in producing estrogen. Natal women are born with their ovaries containing all the eggs they will ever have. Seems unlikely that eggs could grow after testes are fully formed.
You're right. Women don't make new eggs, but if you can turn your testes into
your genetic ovaries that's all you would need. Well that and a cloning ban to be lifted. haha If you cloned your ovaries, the new ones would start out at day one and fill with eggs just like that of any cis female's while in the womb.
If your testes are turned into ovaries, where would they move them? For many MtF, you can't very well have them "hanging around" for forever. That's the first question I thought of. I'm sure they'd be able to move them, but it seems complicated.
testes have to be one degree lower temp than the body but presumably ovaries are the same temp so that is a problem to be thought about in any future gene therapy.
Hello,
I have done considerable research with this fiel. I remember reading a book called 'Stoplight Parrotfish' by Ellen Witlinger. In the middle of the book there is a small passage where scientists are researching how species change sexes when it is necessary, or how insects change colours (not mentioned in the book).
I guess one of the more difficult challenges to overcome is the complete alteration of the human body by using the target body for comparison. At the rate we are going, I estimate that 3D printing and full body imaging could happen within the next five to ten years. What we need though is a greater amount of support from people around the world, not just on the Western portion.
I've written a fifty-thousand-plus word novel for last year's NaNoWriMo, and I introduced various types of possible procedures to help transgender people.
Quote from: SunKat on December 23, 2013, 03:38:02 AM
This is inspired by one of the FTM threads that posted a few weeks ago. There is research going on that is looking at how genes control the "sex" of the gonads even into adulthood. Around 2009, the European Molecular Biology Lab isolated a gene that allows ovaries to remain ovaries and in 2011 researchers at the Univ. of Minnesota identified the antagonistic gene that allows testes to stay testes. By manipulating these genes in adult mice they've been able to transform testicular cells into ovarian cells and visa versa. While the switched cells don't produce eggs or sperm, they do produce the estrogen and testosterone that corresponds to their new identities. Studies are still incomplete and in their infancy, but this may eventually explain the pathway by which some other species change sexes in adulthood.
The article is at...
blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/07/20/one-gene-keeps-mickey-from-turning-into-minnie
If anyone has an update on this, please post.
Apologies for bumping up this thread after such a long period of time. However, here goes:
In addition to the
extremely large benefits that this type of technology can eventually provide for transgender people, I was wondering this--can such technology also provide cisgender people with a
guaranteed way to achieve
permanent sterility? Indeed, I am specifically thinking of having cisgender people surgically remove their gonads, then use stem cell research (or whatever) to create new, opposite-sex gonads for themselves, and then manipulate the antagonistic genes in these gonads in order to create
sterile same-sex gonads for them?
Indeed, any thoughts on this?
Well the one gene that I do know is that the SR Y gene usually on the Y sex chromosome is what generates the testosterone base induction and evolution into giving the testes their defining structure.
I'm not entirely sure if the removal of that would cause any changes, since its generally in the growth stages in the fetus in which it differentiates the structured body function.
But in the same direction if say in the chromosomal alignment of XY with the removal of the SR Y gene in theory would direct a more masculined female in that regard. I'm not entirely sure what other genes it has for the production of testosterone and whatever else that incorporates the traits, but if that gene is manipulated before the embryo stages, theoretically you could generally have an XY female.
I would like to find out more information about the human genome in which gives the differentiable traits for the structures on gender. And if there is possibility in which to manipulate as such to create the testes into an evolution to ovaries.
Kate <3