There seem to be a lot more people openly identifying as trans* compared to when I tried to transition the first time.
Susan's is only a small slice of the overall world's transgendered population but even so, judging by the number of people who have signed up to this forum - identifying as, or at least questioning whether they are, trans* - there are more and more people who might ultimately go on to transition and bring trans* reality to the awareness of family, friends, co-workers, health professionals, etc.
There was a post elsewhere about "being the only transgender in the office" but I wonder if and when that might change and when there will be more than just one "out" person in the office (or family, or school, or church or wherever) who is known to be trans*. And if so, what is the tipping point, the critical mass when general public attitudes start to shift and change?
Could it happen in the next few years, or will it take much longer? How might it change?
I think it has always been the case, but people were wary of earlier procedures and social stigmas. Now that we are no longer "mentally ill", somewhat accepted and surgical procedures are better and safer I think we will see a "nuclear" event VERY soon. Another thing it reminds me of is a dance. Even though everyone wants to, no one does until a few get on the floor and then everyone else joins in. My opinion of course. :)
Quote from: Ms Grace on December 31, 2013, 07:25:12 PM
There seem to be a lot more people openly identifying as trans* compared to when I tried to transition the first time.
Susan's is only a small slice of the overall world's transgendered population but even so, judging by the number of people who have signed up to this forum - identifying as, or at least questioning whether they are, trans* - there are more and more people who might ultimately go on to transition and bring trans* reality to the awareness of family, friends, co-workers, health professionals, etc.
There was a post elsewhere about "being the only transgender in the office" but I wonder if and when that might change and when there will be more than just one "out" person in the office (or family, or school, or church or wherever) who is known to be trans*. And if so, what is the tipping point, the critical mass when general public attitudes start to shift and change?
Could it happen in the next few years, or will it take much longer? How might it change?
Do you know of a forum as active as Susan's?
Can't say that I do, but I was thinking Susan's was a "small slice" of the overal trans* population more from the thought that there are probably a lot more people in the world who might be trans* or trans* questioning who, for whatever reason, aren't on this forum (or any forum for that matter). :)
As a former Paramedic dealing with the public stats indicate about 4 for every 1 on here. A lot of people don't even know what their issue is called, just a feeling they may have had for a long time, but the public's opinion won't let them consider it.
According to this fact sheet (http://www.transgenderlaw.org/resources/transfactsheet.pdf) from transgenderlaw.org (http://www.transgenderlaw.org)...
QuoteAn estimated 2 to 5% of the population is transgender (i.e., experience some degree of gender dysphoria)...Recent statistics from the Netherlands indicate that about 1 in 12,000 natal males undergo sex-reassignment and about 1 in 34,000 natal females.
But you know what they say about statistics, right?
All the same, even at 2% of the population being transgender,
that's a lot of people! Obviously not all those people get genital corrective surgery, many won't even transition to their identified gender let alone start HRT or even seek to talk about it. But 2%-5% of the population with, say, 10% of those transitioning at the very least, means there's potentially a lot of people going through transition (and a lot of other people possibly feeling quite miserable about their gender).
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on December 31, 2013, 08:46:51 PM
A lot of people don't even know what their issue is called, just a feeling they may have had for a long time, but the public's opinion won't let them consider it.
Yes, I think you're spot on here. The cis public's attitude around trans gender elicits a lot of shame and ridicule and secrecy, and it works against people who are transgendered. But if there is a higher profile around the issue now than say 20 years ago, where will that profile might be in another 20? Will it result in more and more people seeking transition and/or will it change gender perceptions.
Back 25 years ago, it was a M2F nurse at the hospital I worked at that "triggered" me. I know that during my first transition I "triggered" someone who went on to transition. No doubt for many people on this forum it was the experience of others who acted as a catalyst for their own questioning and/or transition. So does more people transitioning mean a greater percentage of that 2-5% will explore their gender expression? More and more? Will it make a difference to gender attitudes, improve the rights of trans* people, etc?
Sorry, just thinking out "aloud"... :)
Quote from: Ms Grace on January 01, 2014, 02:26:06 AM
According to this fact sheet (http://www.transgenderlaw.org/resources/transfactsheet.pdf) from transgenderlaw.org (http://www.transgenderlaw.org)...
Will it result in more and more people seeking transition and/or will it change gender perceptions.
I think we will see an explosion of both very soon. It's like the dance metaphor, the more that do it, the more will join in. I don't think even we know the full extent of those with Dysphoria. I imagine it is higher than either one of think it is. When it looses it's stigma and shame, well, Katy bar the door.
I do know that referrals in Australia have gone through the roof.
If it is like you described it there to me, uh, Yeah! Here I feel like I am under a homophobic totalitarian and oppressive system. Wait a minute, I am! ;D
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on January 01, 2014, 02:42:06 AM
If it is like you described it there to me, uh, Yeah! Here I feel like I am under a homophobic totalitarian and oppressive system. Wait a minute, I am! ;D
Ahh yea!
Funny, my Dr mentioned to me that it was far more common than people realised or I thought as she sees many people who are trying to cope with GD. She made me feel at ease with it and not feeling like a freak when opening up to her.
She is a wonderful doc and person to have on my side.
Sometime I feel like just giving her a huge hug for being so supportive.
Jen
WOW! Just think, someday WE could be the new Normal! ;D Bet I just scared a bunch of people who might have read that. ::)
Reminds me when my GP congratulated me for getting BP and depression under control. I told I could help any of his male patients and he asked how?
Castrate them.
He didn't think it would be popular for some reason!
Quote from: Cindy on January 01, 2014, 03:04:20 AM
Reminds me when my GP congratulated me for getting BP and depression under control. I told I could help any of his male patients and he asked how?
Castrate them.
He didn't think it would be popular for some reason!
LMAO! How could a medical professional not adequately treat his patients. What is up with that. Does he cut it as a GP? ;D
How would they know if they didn't try?
Worth a go?
Quote from: Cindy on January 01, 2014, 03:04:20 AM
Reminds me when my GP congratulated me for getting BP and depression under control. I told I could help any of his male patients and he asked how?
Castrate them.
He didn't think it would be popular for some reason!
Gee, I wonder why, LOL
Quote from: Jenny07 on January 01, 2014, 03:08:39 AM
How would they know if they didn't try?
Worth a go?
He could try a half off sale! :D
I think it was the next visit he asked me about surgery and whether guys could tell the difference between a neo-vaj or a natural one.
When I told him guys don't care as long as they get their rocks off he went bright red.
BTW he is great!
I think our fearless birthday girl Mod has taken this topic below the belt, shouldn't we get back on topic?
What was it again? :laugh:
Skydiving?
Quote from: Cindy on January 01, 2014, 03:14:13 AM
I think it was the next visit he asked me about surgery and whether guys could tell the difference between a neo-vaj or a natural one.
When I told him guys don't care as long as they get their rocks off he went bright red.
BTW he is great!
Sounds like a "Critical Mass" topic to me! ;D
Transgenders are still a tiny percentage of the population. If referrals are sky rocketing then one possible reason for this could be due to a backlog of transgender people only now realising their true selves who could not permit themselves to come out under a less tolerant society in the past.
heh, I was going to post this pic...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Feiinsider.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F06%2Fderailed-train.jpg&hash=dd0daf9aeae5b1f56ec9e3ff6623ef8f728da3a7)
oops, looks like I did! Annnnnnyhoooo... ;)
Quote from: Nicolette on January 01, 2014, 09:41:40 AM
Transgenders are still a tiny percentage of the population. If referrals are sky rocketing then one possibly reason for this could be due to a backlog of transgender people only now realising their true selves who could not permit themselves to come out under a less tolerant society in the past.
This is true but judging by the commentary from a lot of people struggling with their issues on this forum they still perceive a lot of intolerance...? Maybe?
Another way of looking at it... might people feel that transition in their workplace would be "easier", "more acceptable" if there was already another transitioned trans* person in that workplace? Or if there was already someone in the family who had transitioned, would that make it "easier" to come out to the family? ???
OK, Australian tolerance verses U.S., middle of the bible belt tolerance? Can I immigrate now, please! :o
Just remember to pack your Jenny repellent :laugh:
Jenny do you think we should warn the immigration department?
We could have Snow White on the way and from what I've read she brings a entourage of small people!
As long as she doesn't arrive in a boat she should be OK.
Quote from: Ms Grace on January 02, 2014, 01:47:10 AM
As long as she doesn't arrive in a boat she should be OK.
I have this image of Snow White and seven John Howard's for some reason.
And yes the boats! I feel so sorry for those people. It doesn't sit well with me what the policy is.
Quote from: Joules on January 02, 2014, 01:51:16 AM
Another thought here is that trans folks will sometimes blend in and vanish into the crowd! Transitioners who start at an early age can often pass perfectly, or nearly so. Many of them choose to go stealth, their changes unknown to most of the people around them.
This is very true. i mentioned on the previous page that back in 1989 it was a nurse from the hospital I worked at proved to be the final shove I needed to get myself fully investigating and then pursuing transition. However I only knew she was trans* because I worked in Human Resources (waaaaay down the rung) and she came in to change her name, etc. Some of the guys in the back office were all "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" and let me in on the "joke". Honestly, if they hadn't told me I would never have known, she passed so well. So if I'd remained in the dark about her would I still have received that jolt of incentive and awareness needed to pursue my own transition?
Quote from: Cindy on January 02, 2014, 01:59:31 AM
I have this image of Snow White and seven John Howard's for some reason.
Scary. Very scary.
Quote from: Cindy on January 02, 2014, 01:59:31 AM
And yes the boats! I feel so sorry for those people. It doesn't sit well with me what the policy is.
It's Aussie intolerance at its inglorious best... :-\
So true Sis!
I think we of all people feel the scourge of intolerance in any form and it hurts to know others, no matter why, are also subjected to it.
Enough said, I don't want to go there!
Quote from: Ms Grace on December 31, 2013, 07:25:12 PM
There seem to be a lot more people openly identifying as trans* compared to when I tried to transition the first time.
Susan's is only a small slice of the overall world's transgendered population but even so, judging by the number of people who have signed up to this forum - identifying as, or at least questioning whether they are, trans* - there are more and more people who might ultimately go on to transition and bring trans* reality to the awareness of family, friends, co-workers, health professionals, etc.
There was a post elsewhere about "being the only transgender in the office" but I wonder if and when that might change and when there will be more than just one "out" person in the office (or family, or school, or church or wherever) who is known to be trans*. And if so, what is the tipping point, the critical mass when general public attitudes start to shift and change?
Could it happen in the next few years, or will it take much longer? How might it change?
Part of it must relate to the greater access to diagnostic information. I think that self-recognition is becoming more prevalent. I wallowed in ignorance for over 35 years, knowing that something was "different" about me, but not knowing what it was. From the time I was a teen, I supposed it was just bisexuality. Instead, it was genderfluidity.
Some of our more recently signed-up members have unique site identification numbers just over 30,000. That numbering system began, I believe, in 2005. We have about 9,000 active members. But those numbers are just a small percentage of the numbers of TG/TS persons in the world.
Let's assume that all of our 9,000 active members are Americans (I know they are not - just a mental exercise). It is estimated that about 900,000 self-identified TG/TS persons live in the USA. That means we have only enlisted 1% of them. :(
How do we reach more of them? How do we provide an information-base to help educate our own, as well as the cis world? How do we help those folks who wonder today, like I did 40 years ago, why they are feeling the conflict between mind and body?
We have challenges before us. But we also have tremendous upside potential.
We have to realise that we are comfortable in this thread. We all accept ourselves to an extent where we can talk sensibly about the issue. Most people be they TG or not cannot do that. Fear is paramount among most.
I recall a recent incident. I was giving a public talk about TG issues and society, I was approached after by a woman who had helped me 'come out' she expressed amazement that I, who was such a terrified little girl when she helped me, was now publicly leading discussion.
I realised that the steps we take are massive, even just being able to log onto a site like this is full of fear for so many.
Why?
And how do we let people overcome that?
I have questions but few answers.
Story of my life :laugh:
Quote from: Cindy on January 02, 2014, 01:59:31 AM
And yes the boats! I feel so sorry for those people. It doesn't sit well with me what the policy is.
Human Rights violation in Niugini :-\
Quote from: Cindy on January 02, 2014, 03:07:53 AM
We have to realise that we are comfortable in this thread. We all accept ourselves to an extent where we can talk sensibly about the issue. Most people be they TG or not cannot do that. Fear is paramount among most.
I recall a recent incident. I was giving a public talk about TG issues and society, I was approached after by a woman who had helped me 'come out' she expressed amazement that I, who was such a terrified little girl when she helped me, was now publicly leading discussion.
I realised that the steps we take are massive, even just being able to log onto a site like this is full of fear for so many.
Why?
And how do we let people overcome that?
I have questions but few answers.
Story of my life :laugh:
leave it for the future historians :-\
Quote from: Ms Grace on January 01, 2014, 02:26:06 AM
All the same, even at 2% of the population being transgender, that's a lot of people! Obviously not all those people get genital corrective surgery, many won't even transition to their identified gender let alone start HRT or even seek to talk about it.
(Bold face added by me.)
"Gender dysphoria" doesn't necessarily mean "identifies with the opposite gender from their assigned gender." One can be uncomfortable with one's assigned gender without identifying with the other gender.
One of the problems with the term "transgender" is that different people use it and define it in different ways. Some use it as a synonym for "transsexual," others call anyone who is gender-variant "transgender." Which is why the referenced web page defines what they mean:
Quoteis transgender (i.e., experience some degree of gender dysphoria)
Quote from: Cindy on January 02, 2014, 01:44:09 AM
Jenny do you think we should warn the immigration department?
I think you should warn the whole continent! Not like I could hide in the crowd anyway. ;D
The way we are treated here, being wrapped up by jellyfish while being eaten by a shark and scraping on a coral reef sounds remarkably peaceful. :laugh:
QuoteI think we will see a "nuclear" event VERY soon.
Ominous onions, indeed! (But in a good way.... hopefully!)
Since crossdressing openly, a few friends of mine have come out of the woodwork and have asked to try it. And the NHS's current explanation as to why I'm having to wait an extra 4 months for another appointment is apparently because of a MASSIVE increase in people seeking treatment or therapy which has occurred within the last year or so. I've read similar accounts online on various blogs, too. Ultimately I don't know whether its true or not, so perhaps they'll be an epidemic of gender-related treatments & coming-outs very soon, or perhaps not.
Would be amazing if a sizable proportion of the world was transgender, an awakening to the flexbility and wonderment of fluid genders. From a dating and organisational point of view - it would be chaos of course. Filling in forms would be even more tedious than now. However, from a pure understanding, accepting and expressing point of view, it would be awesome sauce.
Roll on Binary Apocalypse! :icon_2gun:
As long as significant barriers exist to accessing care, all but the most motivated, connected, and desperate won't. Where I live, in the absence of any literature (road-map), publicity, or formal policy structure, I effectively had to design my own ad hoc care structure by educating and cajoling doctors and counselors into helping me. And that's in Canada, where $$ barriers don't factor.
I can only imagine how many people thousands would make the leap if free and publicized trans-health clinics were to start popping up universally.
The thing that amazes me is that there aren't more services available... technically transition is big money - from shrinks, counsellors, endos, drugs, blood tests and potentially - depending on whether M2F or F2M - prosthetics, cosmetic/corrective surgeries, vocal cord surgery and/or voice training, hair removal, hair regrowth, wardrobe changes, special size clothing and foot ware, genital corrective surgery, etc, etc. I mean, we're talking tens of thousands of dollars or more - admittedly and unfortunately gleaned off our suffering - but it's still big money and yet we still get the brush off by so many (so called) professionals and businesses who either don't cater for us or won't.
Quote from: Ms Grace on January 05, 2014, 02:18:02 PM
The thing that amazes me is that there aren't more services available... technically transition is big money - from shrinks, counsellors, endos, drugs, blood tests and potentially - depending on whether M2F or F2M - prosthetics, cosmetic/corrective surgeries, vocal cord surgery and/or voice training, hair removal, hair regrowth, wardrobe changes, special size clothing and foot ware, genital corrective surgery, etc, etc. I mean, we're talking tens of thousands of dollars or more - admittedly and unfortunately gleaned off our suffering - but it's still big money and yet we still get the brush off by so many professionals and businesses who either don't cater for us or won't.
Them being uncomfortable, their fear of making their "normal" clientele uncomfortable or just don't want to get mixed up with crazy people.
theres always more transgender than we notice.
in the time of my first school I thought I was the only one, but later I found out 2 people I knew had transitioned.
I belive the number is actually pretty huge. ::)
I'm with Natkat. I thought I was the only one in a town of 28k. Nope, met 6 and heard of a couple more. Who knows how many are still closeted or just blend well enough that I don't know who they are.
Quote from: big head horsey-face on January 05, 2014, 02:21:44 PM
Them being uncomfortable, their fear of making their "normal" clientele uncomfortable or just don't want to get mixed up with crazy people.
Well maybe so - but my endo shares his waiting room with a number of other specialists who are not endocrinologists. Every time I've visited the room has always had at least two M2F trans* clients (that I can notice, at any rate) and the rest are presumably cis*, here for another doctor and another reason. When I notice a trans person in a public space I try to pay more attention to how everyone around them is reacting to them - are they looking, staring, changing their body language, whispering to someone else and pointing - thus far I'd say nobody has seemed to notice, or they don't care, even in the waiting room where things are a lot more confined.
Quote from: LordKAT on January 05, 2014, 02:44:57 PM
I'm with Natkat. I thought I was the only one in a town of 28k. Nope, met 6 and heard of a couple more. Who knows how many are still closeted or just blend well enough that I don't know who they are.
My work place has about 20 or so people. I found out that someone who worked there about six or seven years ago was M2F, she was presenting as male at the time and didn't transition until maybe three years after she left. But I would never have guessed at all she was trans*, even in retrospect I can't think of a single "clue".
10/28000 = 0.036%
That is about right. In large urban LGBT friendly locations I bet the number is higher.
Where I work Trans* procedures are covered for employees and families. So we are naturally higher at 0.1% for our company. 14 out of 14,000 workers. Perhaps it is much lower due to family coverage and the denominator ballooning to perhaps 42,000. So perhaps we are at 0.033%. So between 0.033% to 0.10% of the population at work and their families are trans*.
Shortly before my legal name change, I read that it was like 1 in 34k people. That has been changing rapidly ever since.
There are also those that take themselves away from visibility by going back in the closet after transition. If someone came out in my office, I'm not sure I'd out myself to them. At this moment, I'm certain I wouldn't. To that person, they would still be the only one.