While this has some relevance to the forums my question is also in general. Having been on Estrace for seven weeks there is clear change to my chest, although I won't have anything on most middle-aged men even for some time to come. I've observed that many pre-HRT MTFs have posted shirt-less pics, and men can have quite sizable moobs with or without some gynecomastia and nobody bats an eye. FTMs also get to freely display post top-surgery pics even though it's the same skin and nipples that would have been part of complete breasts shortly before.
Both my brothers have moobs and on the one they actually look like fledgling female breasts. No one says a thing to them about it if they're shirt-less in public. In my city it is legal for women to go top-less, although it is rarely practiced because it draws too much unwanted attention. If I grew fully-developed breasts but was still legally male at the time I think it would cause quite a stir to go bare-chested. I can guarantee no one would notice me right now, but how early in development does it cross the line?
So what's the deal - When is it a breast and when is it not? What is supposed to be inappropriate? If a woman is completely flat-chested, whether cis or not, does it still count if you know they are female? :-\ ???
If you ask me, the whole concept of anyone's chest being "inappropriate" is complete bunk. And the law agrees, since basically declaring boobs indecent exposure while bare male chests aren't is pretty discriminatory. (Women have won cases on the right to be topless in public.)
Really, it's just an issue of boobs being seen as sexualized objects because of our male-centered society. So basically, if guys could be turned on by it, it's considered obscene, if not, it's not. I call shenanigans on that, but whatever.
If you want a straight answer, I'd say that it's somewhere between the Tanner III and Tanner IV stage is where it would probably be seen as inappropriate, since that's the stage where soft tissue starts growing in and they start taking on an actual round boob shape rather than the flat limp moob look.
I can't relate at all. When I first went through puberty, I found myself looking at females. Their curves. Legs. Rear ends. Cleavage. I blame biology. Society had nothing to do with it. It had to do with visual cues and procreation. Even now, when I see gorgeous boobs, I get a kind of brain freeze. Stunning! I would probably put naked breasts in the same category as naked genitals. I think that's a reality. Bare boobs often have the effect of making a woman overly attractive. They're designed to do that.
after while I just kinda naturally got freaked out about being topless.
Before it was actually a question or concern.. I have pretty significant development I'd say~
It just depends. But my answer would be.. once you start to develop buds. And it will be painfully apparent when you do, this might be the time that you always keep covered.
It's funny that there's some sort of majority-rules thing about it because I happen to find A-cup and below to be very attractive on a women. They could be completely flat-chested and I'd generally still like it. Since a societal majority wouldn't agree with me I don't know what I'm supposed to think. If an AA or AAA-cup women goes topless does it get noticed or frowned on? Does it depend on how feminine they are perceived to be?
The trouble is that law or no law there are always localized rules or societal standards put in place and I don't know what is supposed to run afoul of them. Ya, it's all silly and unfair but I want to know at what point I start getting into trouble, this website's public area included. If I'm doing garden chores in the hot summer sun and feel like taking my shirt off I'm certainly not expecting to be viewed in a female sexualized way, especially if I've just got some puffy areolas, but some other people might see it that way. My neighbor with two young children may eventually raise hell even if they don't know about my transitional state.
Somewhat tongue-in-cheek, post your booblet pics, and if they get taken down, it's time to cover up. A lot has to do with how you carry yourself and present.
Violet, I agree. A-cup boobs can be very attractive.
Quote from: Joules on January 01, 2014, 11:29:52 PM
Since you are in Canada Violet, I'd guess it's not really an issue this time of year...
It's sort of amusing and depressing at the same time that when my house gets chilly and I'm changing clothes my nipples and areolas shrink back like as if none of this estrogen thing ever happened. :-\ Maybe I need to move to the Arctic until I'm ready for fulltime?
Quote from: Gina_Z on January 01, 2014, 11:36:26 PM
Violet, I agree. A-cup boobs can be very attractive.
I can never compliment a women on it though because they always get super self-conscious about it and try to reverse it on me saying I mustn't like boobs then. Can't win. :(
I've never been a fan of large breasts. I feel a woman is very attractive with A or B cups, and quite frankly since I just started hrt I have some time yet before I have anything to worry about. However I'm hoping mine don't get any larger than a B at most. However we don't get to decide that -nature does, so I'll just have to wait and see and be happy with what nature gives me.
As to when it is inappropriate to go topless, I have to agree with others here: When you painfully notice growth, as one put it, it might be time to start covering up. ;)
Quote from: Kelly-087 on January 01, 2014, 11:27:29 PM
after while I just kinda naturally got freaked out about being topless.
I am 3 years into HRT and have D cup breasts and I have never got to this stage, I don't mind being topless. I often sun tan topless, as I don't want tan lines when I wear stringy tops. I have never being to a nude beach yet, but after SRS I would like to visit one. Maybe I missed my calling in life lol.. I could have being a stripper lol.
When a bare chest is inappropriate ?
I think when you got breast buds, as I think that when your nipples start to look like female. If you are going to a nude beach or a beach wear topless sun bathing is allowed, then it does not matter.
I have A-cups and puffy nipples.. it's enough to make me reflexively put my arm over them if I'm shirtless and outside my bedroom or bathroom. That's the indicator for me.
Please!!! I have to ask. You're mtf, why in hell would you want to go shirtless in public at ANY point in transition? I know that the last decade has made it trendy for GUYS to take off their shirt on any occasion. I drive down my street and want to puke on the guys that don't (99%) have perfect figures, and are swinging around their muffin tops like they're showing off. All summer I should carry a supply of cheap T shirt to hand out to idiot males who think anytime is shirtless time (usually while there are also wearing a wool toque????)
Until you can do amateur night at the strip club, keep your shirt on!
Quote from: Paulagirl on January 02, 2014, 08:28:18 AM
Please!!! I have to ask. You're mtf, why in hell would you want to go shirtless in public at ANY point in transition? I know that the last decade has made it trendy for GUYS to take off their shirt on any occasion. I drive down my street and want to puke on the guys that don't (99%) have perfect figures, and are swinging around their muffin tops like they're showing off. All summer I should carry a supply of cheap T shirt to hand out to idiot males who think anytime is shirtless time (usually while there are also wearing a wool toque????)
Until you can do amateur night at the strip club, keep your shirt on!
Sometimes, it's just more comfortable to be shirtless.
I actually agree with Paula...
Quote from: Thylacin on January 02, 2014, 08:46:51 AM
Sometimes, it's just more comfortable to be shirtless.
Society's rules, decorum, and common sense were not put there for your comfort. You want to be a girl, and we can assume you are old enough to consent to transition. NO genetic girl that age would be caught dead in public topless. Transition is hard enough. If you want to play both sides, it's going to be way harder.
Quote from: Paulagirl on January 02, 2014, 08:28:18 AM
Please!!! I have to ask. You're mtf, why in hell would you want to go shirtless in public at ANY point in transition? I know that the last decade has made it trendy for GUYS to take off their shirt on any occasion. I drive down my street and want to puke on the guys that don't (99%) have perfect figures, and are swinging around their muffin tops like they're showing off. All summer I should carry a supply of cheap T shirt to hand out to idiot males who think anytime is shirtless time (usually while there are also wearing a wool toque????)
Until you can do amateur night at the strip club, keep your shirt on!
ahahaha! exactly.
To me, it would be as soon as you start hormones.
Most women don't go topless, except at a topless beach. If you consider yourself to be a woman, act like a woman
Quote from: Sarah Louise on January 02, 2014, 10:48:42 AM
To me, it would be as soon as you start hormones.
Most women don't go topless, except at a topless beach. If you consider yourself to be a woman, act like a woman
Well said. Now that I've started you'll never catch me topless.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on January 01, 2014, 11:08:50 PM
If you ask me, the whole concept of anyone's chest being "inappropriate" is complete bunk.
Couldn't agree more.
QuoteAnd the law agrees, since basically declaring boobs indecent exposure while bare male chests aren't is pretty discriminatory. (Women have won cases on the right to be topless in public.)
I actually attended a toplessness protest of sorts and the cop was on the radio for many minutes before he finally had to just let the woman go. She was walking amongst a bunch of topless guys.
QuoteReally, it's just an issue of boobs being seen as sexualized objects because of our straight male-centered society. So basically, if guys could be turned on by it, it's considered obscene, if not, it's not. I call shenanigans on that, but whatever.
FTFY. As a gay man, I'm turned on by shapely and rigid pectoral muscles and not at all by breasts. But no matter how much I oggle a fit dood for being topless, they don't ban male toplessness for some reason. Go figure. (I'm not that rude, actually. I'm very discreet with my oggles.)
QuoteIf you want a straight answer...
LOL at the accidental(?) pun. :)
Αctually I would never walk topless as a guy cause of the hate I would feel towards my body,,,even on the beach I would swim and then cover myself with a blanket looking like an idiot XD
If you ask me Id find it easier to be topless as a woman rather as a guy :/
If I was to wash my car in the driveway topless wearing boy type cutoff shorts, even with my pretty long blond hair no one would say much, if I do that topless while wearing bikini bottoms I might cause a traffic accident and have nosey neighbor ladies call the cops...makes no sense at all to me!
I can however wander the beaches in San Francisco topless in bikini bottoms though without even raising an eyebrow ;)
I have very pokie boobs with long hard nips, quite obvious braless in t-shirts
Quote from: Violet Bloom on January 01, 2014, 11:42:17 PM
I can never compliment a women on it though because they always get super self-conscious about it and try to reverse it on me saying I mustn't like boobs then. Can't win. :(
I've been there. My ex wasn't very big.. I loved 'em, but she was all kinds of neurotic about it, to the point of being jealous of my moobs. I remember one point we had a romantic evening were fooling around, and I told her how much I loved her breasts. She told me "apparently you missed the evolutionary bandwagon" and walked out of the room.
Quote from: Allyda on January 02, 2014, 11:28:58 AM
Well said. Now that I've started you'll never catch me topless.
I haven't started, yet, and you'll never catch me topless. I dunno. I've always been bashful about my chest.
Just to clarify, I'm not really interested in going around topless - I'm just trying to understand how and when it becomes 'indecent'. It seems to be a matter of individual interpretation. If people believe I'm a male then I suspect I could have significant development on display before anyone starts to question it. This would likely be far past the point of 'societal decency' if people saw me as a woman. It gets more complicated if you are trying to post photos and I don't know where the line gets drawn particularly if it is dependent on what your stated gender is. And what of the gender-fluid types? Is it okay to bare 'em if they are having a 'male day' but not if they're feeling female? Guidance please!
Maybe I'm misreading Violet's post, but to me it looked like she was asking what would be allowed/not allowed in posted pics on this forum.
I read her question as:
How much boob is too much boob for a pic posted in this forum ?
Your bare chest will never be inappropriate to me, Violet! ::)
But by my reckoning, moobs stop being moobs when they stick out further than the belly, then they are most definitely boobs... ;D
Quote from: Ms Grace on January 02, 2014, 10:26:13 PM
But by my reckoning, moobs stop being moobs when they stick out further than the belly, then they are most definitely boobs... ;D
Oops. I passed that particular milestone a while ago. Just as well I am wearing my winter camoflage. Summer might be interesting, especially since I am still presenting as male.
Quote from: Joules on January 02, 2014, 10:31:25 PM
You are quite right Tessa. We just love to chat about boobs, we take license with almost no provocation whatsoever ;D
LOL ... I guess I asked for that .... /hides
I actually went swimming when I was only 2months on hormones, I was torn on what I ought to wear because I was still super self concious because I was aware of how different my chest looked... However it was borderline. A month later I wouldn't have done so simply because my nipples got too big.
The gym. Until late spring I was going to the gym where I had to walk from my locker to the shower shirtless. At five months in, I was probably being paranoid about being noticed but I felt myself compelled to make sure I kept my towel stragically placed.
That was probably about the time I stopped padding my bra, as I had enough to go all me. No where close to filling out the cups, but enough to keep em' filled out.
My nips haven't seen sunlight in decades. I think the time to start doing things the way girls do is the day you decide you're a girl. If you consider yourself a feminine person why would you still do simple things like a guy, anyway? Passing as a woman may not be easy (at first) for everyone, but passing as androgynous is easier. Wearing a top all the time is an easy beginning.
Still, there are a few genetic women in the world who don't abide by the female chest covering tradition. There's a group in New York City called the "The Outdoor Co-ed Topless Pulp Fiction Appreciation Society" (Google them, but know they're NSFW), who regularly put New York's toplessness laws (or lack thereof) to the test by walking around the the city and Central park with their shirts off.
~ Lyric ~
Quote from: TessaMarie on January 02, 2014, 09:35:14 PM
Maybe I'm misreading Violet's post, but to me it looked like she was asking what would be allowed/not allowed in posted pics on this forum.
I read her question as:
How much boob is too much boob for a pic posted in this forum ?
You're right, but then I realized that the question was so much bigger than that. I'm completely open to expanding on every angle of this issue because it's important when everyone gets thinking deeply about it. It occurred to me just how silly this gets in society around women breast-feeding in public - everyone's up in arms about the bare breasts, particularly if children will see it, but nobody has any concern for the 'fragile' mind of the 'poor' feeding baby 'helplessly' pressed up against said breasts. ::) Oh, such irony. Anyway, I don't think anyone directly tackled my forum question, short of what appeared to be a dare. ;)
Quote from: Joules on January 02, 2014, 10:31:25 PM
You are quite right Tessa. We just love to chat about boobs, we take license with almost no provocation whatsoever ;D
Indeed - I was trying to 'provoke' fun and illuminated discussion on the 'illumination' of my chest.
Quote from: Ms Grace on January 02, 2014, 10:26:13 PM
Your bare chest will never be inappropriate to me, Violet! ::)
I'm glad you see it that way. ;) Allow me to expand on this thought:
As a guy I was horribly self-conscious about my body and everything about my presentation. Part of my growth as a person has been to shed this excessive and unrealistic concern so that I can be comfortable anywhere I go. It was a major challenge initially even to just have my shirt off in public or go to a swimming pool. I've gotten past all that now to the point that if for some reason I were to be completely naked in public I wouldn't give a damn, although I'm not an exhibitionist. It's just a sentiment. The more my mind and body shift towards a female appearance the more appropriate I feel about it and my transition is allowing me to shed the last of my internal shame for my body.
Quote from: Lyric on January 03, 2014, 09:19:06 AM
Still, there are a few genetic women in the world who don't abide by the female chest covering tradition. There's a group in New York City called the "The Outdoor Co-ed Topless Pulp Fiction Appreciation Society" (Google them, but know they're NSFW), who regularly put New York's toplessness laws (or lack thereof) to the test by walking around the the city and Central park with their shirts off.
~ Lyric ~
OMG - the apparent level of queer in that circle of women is totally breaking my heart! I need to meet girls like this. Gah, then I'd be too horny around them (which has little to do with the bare breasts, as my fellow lesbian/queer oriented female members here will understand).
I have to go out for a laser appointment right now, so everyone think all this over and I'll pick up the discussion again in the afternoon.
I can tuck well enough that I can wear a bikini and if it wasn't for my lack of hair I could pass with a lot of effort, so if I were to go to a public swimming pool in a bikini I would have the top on. I don't go topless in public at all anyway, no matter how well built I was when I worked out every day I was always self conscious about being without at least a T-Shirt.
My opinion, as an MTF what happens in private stays in private, but you're living as a woman and in public you're a lady so behave like it. You can strip but naked and have all the fun you want when you have some sort of privacy.
Quote from: Lyric on January 03, 2014, 09:19:06 AM
I think the time to start doing things the way girls do is the day you decide you're a girl. If you consider yourself a feminine person why would you still do simple things like a guy, anyway?
~ Lyric ~
I never decided I was a girl. I was one, but just refused to admit it. There is no choice there.
Further, I can be feminine, but still do some things how I always have, there is no rule of how trans people should behave.
As for the original question, it should never be inappropriate, but we unfortunately live in a society with messed up ideas about sexuality, gender, and sex. So whenever you feel your chest looks like it would be regarded as a female would be the point where you would want to cover it.
I never had to decide either -I always knew I was a girl. And, I have even as a kid been very self concious about going topless. Although on the Rez (reservation) where I spent my early years both young girls and boys went topless all the time when it was hot. It wasn't until I was adopted and moved to Washington DC with my new family that things for me anyway became very confusing. -when I was young that is.
The temperature here in Toronto today is -17ºC (1ºF) with a wind chill of -25ºC (-13ºF). No chance of toplessness! I once did a polar bear dip in Lake Ontario under similar conditions. The shock to my system was so extreme that I immediately went home and slept for almost 24 hours straight.
I was in Toronto once very nice place
I've been struggling with this question myself lately. I've been on HRT for 2 months now, and I've just recently started developing soreness around the nipple area. I also swim regularly with a masters swim club, so I have to be topless quite often. There really aren't many options when it comes to swimwear while presenting as male that cover the chest. I'd love to switch over to wearing female swimwear, but doing so means I'd have to socially transition with everyone I swim with. I know its only a matter of time before I won't have much choice in the matter. I'm still overweight, so I've had the moob thing going on for a while now as well, which may give me a little bit more time before they become too noticeable.
Quote from: Violet Bloom on January 03, 2014, 09:43:16 AM
You're right, but then I realized that the question was so much bigger than that.
TY for that reassurance Violet :) Thought I was going crazy imagining things ... oh, wait ... just imagining things ...
I don't remember being nearly as self-conscious about my body as most other people here seem to have been. That does make me second-guess whether or not I should be even thinking of transitioning. My sense of self was beaten down so thoroughly when I was very young (in the name of religion), that it is often hard to separate the illusion from reality.
id say when they start looking like breasts, or when your face is fem enough to where it would be socially ackward. Im a few months shy of 2 years, and Im a Large A small B and being as skinny as I am, I couldnt wonder around top less like a man in public at about the 5 month mark. and now its absolutly not allowable as I have slope shape size and bounce. Im dieing for summer to come, I cant wait to wear a bikini top. Tho being pre op I got a bad feeling ill be upset i cant wear a bottom yet. But hey, I like wearing my dark purple 3/4 lenght miller lite swimming trunks and my purple tie dye bikini top. hair pulled back into a pony with my bangs down.
As far is swimwear that covers the chest, underarmor makes swimming tops.
When my wife told me I can no longer walk around the house without a shirt :police:
I couldn't do it now. I'm four months in. Their too cone shaped
Quote from: Teela Renee on January 03, 2014, 05:26:59 PM
Tho being pre op I got a bad feeling ill be upset i cant wear a bottom yet.
Tuck and wear a sarong. :)
Quote from: Teela Renee on January 03, 2014, 05:26:59 PM
id say when they start looking like breasts, or when your face is fem enough to where it would be socially ackward. Im a few months shy of 2 years, and Im a Large A small B and being as skinny as I am, I couldnt wonder around top less like a man in public at about the 5 month mark. and now its absolutly not allowable as I have slope shape size and bounce. Im dieing for summer to come, I cant wait to wear a bikini top. Tho being pre op I got a bad feeling ill be upset i cant wear a bottom yet. But hey, I like wearing my dark purple 3/4 lenght miller lite swimming trunks and my purple tie dye bikini top. hair pulled back into a pony with my bangs down.
As far is swimwear that covers the chest, underarmor makes swimming tops.
I'm quite thin also so it's going to be obvious very quickly to people who know me that something's amiss, shortly followed by everyone else in the general public. I'm itching for the day when I have enough boob to anchor a bikini top. My preference for bottoms is the boyshorts style so at least that may assist somewhat in tucking. Otherwise I'll go with a skirted style for now.
Quote from: TessaMarie on January 03, 2014, 05:16:30 PM
I don't remember being nearly as self-conscious about my body as most other people here seem to have been. That does make me second-guess whether or not I should be even thinking of transitioning. My sense of self was beaten down so thoroughly when I was very young (in the name of religion), that it is often hard to separate the illusion from reality.
I had to learn to separate what I actually thought about my body from what other's told me I should believe via incessant teasing. Still nary a week goes by without someone making a comment about how much food I can eat because "someone this skinny shouldn't be able to". I have a wonderfully healthy body, healthy fat percentage and a healthy body image. Most of what I face now in adulthood is just the jealousy of others.
Quote from: Ashey on January 03, 2014, 06:06:17 PM
Tuck and wear a sarong. :)
Another very practical and fashionable choice.
When other guys start looking at you like this...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmysteryoftheinquity.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F10%2Fbarney-fife-bug-eyed.jpg%3Fw%3D950&hash=fee43cc577517ad7a59db1b1308f37edeac09218)
...it's time to cover up! :o ;D
Quote from: Ms Grace on January 03, 2014, 06:24:30 PM
When other guys start looking at you like this...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmysteryoftheinquity.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F10%2Fbarney-fife-bug-eyed.jpg%3Fw%3D950&hash=fee43cc577517ad7a59db1b1308f37edeac09218)
...it's time to cover up! :o ;D
Ugh... I don't want guys looking at me any which way!
heh - I know exactly what you mean, but I've had to face the fact it's likely gonna happen anyway since, unfortunately, (hetro) boys will be (hetro) boys... especially when it comes to boobs... :(
Quote from: Teela Renee on January 03, 2014, 05:26:59 PM
id say when they start looking like breasts, or when your face is fem enough to where it would be socially ackward. Im a few months shy of 2 years, and Im a Large A small B and being as skinny as I am, I couldnt wonder around top less like a man in public at about the 5 month mark. and now its absolutly not allowable as I have slope shape size and bounce. Im dieing for summer to come, I cant wait to wear a bikini top. Tho being pre op I got a bad feeling ill be upset i cant wear a bottom yet. But hey, I like wearing my dark purple 3/4 lenght miller lite swimming trunks and my purple tie dye bikini top. hair pulled back into a pony with my bangs down.
As far is swimwear that covers the chest, underarmor makes swimming tops.
Though I don't have much in the boob department yet cause I just got started, I'm skinny like you with long legs, a very femminine small oval face & thin chin, and in general, I have the body shape of a thin woman complete with hips. So like you in about 4-5 months just in time for summer (though here in florida it's never that cold) I'll most likely have to wear a bikini top at the beach or even out on my boat. I'm very fond of tank tops though and wear them everywhere. It seems you and I have alot in common in the skinny department, lol! I'm very excited to see where hrt will take my body a year from now. I like wearing my long straight black hair in pony's too and in the last 4 days I've noticed a complete halt to the hair loss issue I was having. As for going bare chested, For the last few years for me that has been impossible due to how I look. Especially around those who don't know me. ;)
They don't go to the bathroom in Toronto! They have a special operation, they have it removed surgically!
And the rest:
http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/I+Don+t+Want+To+Go+To+Toronto/WxE7i?src=5
Quote from: Ashey on January 03, 2014, 06:06:17 PM
Tuck and wear a sarong. :)
a what?
Edit: Just googled it, omg I need a purple tie dye one.
Quote from: Teela Renee on January 03, 2014, 09:23:00 PM
a what?
Edit: Just googled it, omg I need a purple tie dye one.
:laugh: You're welcome. I'm hoping to be in good enough shape by summer to wear that combo. :)
Quote from: Misato on January 03, 2014, 08:47:38 PM
They don't go to the bathroom in Toronto! They have a special operation, they have it removed surgically!
And the rest:
http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/I+Don+t+Want+To+Go+To+Toronto/WxE7i?src=5
Holy crap - it's ALL true! DONUTS!!! ;D I think the operation is called "frostbite".
(I can't believe I never heard this. Thanks!)
Quote from: Ashey on January 03, 2014, 09:39:20 PM
:laugh: You're welcome. I'm hoping to be in good enough shape by summer to wear that combo. :)
I'll be eagerly awaiting "The Sarong Thread" this summer! ;)
For me it was the moment that if someone walked in while i was nude what i covered first. literally my room mate at the time walked in while i was getting out of the shower and i instinctual covered my chest and nothing else . we had a good chuckle about it and i realized going topless was no longer an option.
Quote from: Violet Bloom on January 03, 2014, 10:20:13 PM
I'll be eagerly awaiting "The Sarong Thread" this summer! ;)
It's summer Down Under, a lovely sunny 28c where I am... plus I'm wearing a purple tie dyed sarong! ;D
Its all in the nipple imo.
Quote from: Emo on January 04, 2014, 12:18:53 AM
Its all in the nipple imo.
Tell me about it ;)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg4%2FKR3259%2Fodds%2520n%2520ends%2F1CAE7303-EE18-4079-B98E-41DCF5877166-4920-000004E97E450F8E.jpg&hash=a0192d6ce347dd44238100b3c546fbacd8d19d06)
Aww their so cute. :3
Quote from: Violet Bloom on January 03, 2014, 10:20:13 PM
Holy crap - it's ALL true! DONUTS!!! ;D I think the operation is called "frostbite".
(I can't believe I never heard this. Thanks!)
Welcome!
It's legally an option for a female to walk down the main street topless here.
So what, you are not going to do it and not be the talk of the town and a magnet for every cell phone that goes past you.
I like that with HRT I can likely wear anything Celine Dion can, I just can't sing like her.
And it would be inappropriate for both of us to be sitting at a picnic table chatting about being both from the same place in Quebec on a sunny hot day and topless while chatting. Might be legal, but, it would not be a good idea.
She has no real bust to speak of and I likely never will either, and women don't get to go topless and not cause all sorts of attention.
If you have almost no rack, it ONLY means you likely only require a modest place holder bra. But society will give you a hassle if you take off your bra in public regardless of how much you can put in it. Unless the article of clothing is normally worn without it.
A MTF in a bikini topless is going to be regarded as a man in a weird bikini. And men do wear bikini sized briefs.
My personal philosophy remains that it's more about shape than size. Basically, as soon as I looked in the mirror and thought "whoa, I'd do a double-take and ogle discreetly if those walked past," it was time to keep my shirt on. :) Unfortunately for me, given my pre-HRT development and how quickly everything perked up and stuck out, that was at like week 3! Oh, well.
However, I do disagree with one thing - if it's a place where it's legal for women to go topless and some women do, then doing so still clearly *is* something a woman does. (On the flip side, in I think it was Virginia, a trans woman was refused at the DMV when she went to change her gender marker... and then arrested when she took her shirt off outside to protest, despite the M remaining on her license. So doing it as a form of self-expression is valid but can be extra risky for anyone who is trans, given how the justice system can treat us.)
In some African cultures women do bare their breasts en mass as a sign of protest, but not for the right to go topless, rather it used as a way to show their displeasure with men and is a means of shaming them. Go figure. Who would have thought two little mounds of flesh and fat could cause, in one way or another, so much hysteria around the world.
QuoteMy personal philosophy remains that it's more about shape than size.
I completely agree. I can go to the pool and there are men with bigger boobs than mine, I can wear most shirts without any binding or anything and be just fine and stay in male mode, but I can't go shirtless without causing a huge scene! :D
Quote from: Ms Grace on January 04, 2014, 02:32:48 PM
In some African cultures women do bare their breasts en mass as a sign of protest, but not for the right to go topless, rather it used as a way to show their displeasure with men and is a means of shaming them. Go figure. Who would have thought two little mounds of flesh and fat could cause, in one way or another, so much hysteria around the world.
+2 I agree, who would have thought? :D
By now everyone should know im not on hrt just yet, but my chest looks like a female chest though a bit flat. Idk why but my pectorals are a bit rounder than most but arent saggy like moobs. Its sooo weird. >_>
Quote from: Sarah Louise on January 02, 2014, 10:48:42 AM
To me, it would be as soon as you start hormones.
Most women don't go topless, except at a topless beach. If you consider yourself to be a woman, act like a woman
What a sexist thing to say!
Women can do whatever they bloody well want to, unless its breaking the law!
I've gone topless at a beach, I've never been to a topless beach in my life.
I've gone topless at a pool party, gone naked for a large scale photoshoot as well.
They are just boobs, breasts, pockets of fat, if you're fine with walking around with them out, by all means do it, if you're not, don't.
But we should never tell another person to cover up or remove clothes as its call "personal choice".
My best friend gets worried showing more than a little bit of her boobs, me, I'm fine with bearing a bit more. each to their own.
Quote from: Nicole on January 04, 2014, 09:40:45 PM
What a sexist thing to say!
Women can do whatever they bloody well want to, unless its breaking the law!
I've gone topless at a beach, I've never been to a topless beach in my life.
I've gone topless at a pool party, gone naked for a large scale photoshoot as well.
They are just boobs, breasts, pockets of fat, if you're fine with walking around with them out, by all means do it, if you're not, don't.
But we should never tell another person to cover up or remove clothes as its call "personal choice".
My best friend gets worried showing more than a little bit of her boobs, me, I'm fine with bearing a bit more. each to their own.
Wow, agreed. I missed that on my first pass through this thread. Yeah, not only very sexist, but very limiting/narrow on how people can be trans
In my opinion it is never inappropriate to go topless. Boobs are boobs and it is insulting how sexualized society makes two lumps of fat intended to feed infants. Unless I'm having sex with someone it is just another body part to me.
Quote from: Nicole on January 04, 2014, 09:40:45 PM
What a sexist thing to say!
Women can do whatever they bloody well want to, unless its breaking the law!
I've gone topless at a beach, I've never been to a topless beach in my life.
I've gone topless at a pool party, gone naked for a large scale photoshoot as well.
They are just boobs, breasts, pockets of fat, if you're fine with walking around with them out, by all means do it, if you're not, don't.
But we should never tell another person to cover up or remove clothes as its call "personal choice".
My best friend gets worried showing more than a little bit of her boobs, me, I'm fine with bearing a bit more. each to their own.
I dont think its so much as keeping you down as it is being courteous to others who may feel ashamed looking at another person naked.
If your comfortable in your own skin and you dont mind people looking at you, then more power to you. But when someone else does not feel comfortable seeing a bare chest, it becomes an issue of sensitivity towards others.
Quote from: Violet Bloom on January 01, 2014, 11:01:28 PM
on Estrace for seven weeks there is clear change to my chest,
If you are taking Estrace, you should (a) keep covered like any other woman will normally do, or (b) if defiant of the prevailing laws, go topless when you feel the need.
When your shape develops a bit more, you will no longer feel uncertain.
Just my opinion.
Quote from: Ashey on January 02, 2014, 03:48:31 AM
I have A-cups and puffy nipples.. it's enough to make me reflexively put my arm over them if I'm shirtless and outside my bedroom or bathroom. That's the indicator for me.
Ditto for me. I love wearing camisoles and such..but no one sees the girls unless that person is on the inside with me. This would include my bf, mother (a CRNA), and my neighbor who gives my injections. Anyone else is gonna have to earn it! ;)
(Damn..I had to edit this. I should qualify that I do get invited (albeit rarely) to the nude resorts and clubs here. That's where they seem to really work well. I just tuck *really* good and wear a bikini bottom and get by fine, though it's a bit tense). Keeps peoples eyes off 'downstairs'.
I'm quite pleased how this discussion is shaping up. It's also amusing how so many of you think I want to go around topless! Not really what I was getting at but any help making me appear more bold is welcomed. ;) I never quite understood why there's always so much nudity at the Pride Parade because it doesn't seem to help getting the rest of the community to take it all seriously. That said, if everyone was doing it already I probably would too just for fun. Never been to one of these events yet but I'll probably go once. World Pride 2014 is being held in Toronto this year so what better time to start. Anyone making the trip?
Quote from: Michelle G on January 04, 2014, 02:22:31 AM
Tell me about it ;)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg4%2FKR3259%2Fodds%2520n%2520ends%2F1CAE7303-EE18-4079-B98E-41DCF5877166-4920-000004E97E450F8E.jpg&hash=a0192d6ce347dd44238100b3c546fbacd8d19d06)
Careful where you point those things - you might put an eye out! ;D
Nice way to go blind.
My personal take is women should never go topless whilst I am driving. It is just dangerous. Other than that...