Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Topic started by: nonameyet on January 09, 2014, 06:37:32 PM

Title: okay can we clear this up
Post by: nonameyet on January 09, 2014, 06:37:32 PM
while language has a tendency to change even over short periods it makes no sense to change some of them. so.

a phobia is defined as an intense irrational fear.

hating any lgbt or similar group does NOT make you homophobic.

we really need to find a word for it if its going to be its own thing cause its been bugging me for years.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: MadeleineG on January 09, 2014, 06:40:03 PM
-misia is the greek suffix for hatred or intense dislike

so, homomisia and transmisia are more appopriate terms
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Sheala on January 09, 2014, 06:44:40 PM
The reason it is called homophobia is because it is though to originate from the fear of them. However that I'd not always the case
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Nero on January 09, 2014, 06:45:22 PM
Quote from: nonameyet on January 09, 2014, 06:37:32 PM
while language has a tendency to change even over short periods it makes no sense to change some of them. so.

a phobia is defined as an intense irrational fear.

hating any lgbt or similar group does NOT make you homophobic.

we really need to find a word for it if its going to be its own thing cause its been bugging me for years.

Good point. But some would argue hatred is fear.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jamie D on January 09, 2014, 06:49:37 PM
Quote from: Gwynne on January 09, 2014, 06:40:03 PM
-misia is the greek suffix for hatred or intense dislike

so, homomisia and transmisia are more appopriate terms

Or the Latin root "-odium"
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jenna Stannis on January 09, 2014, 06:56:05 PM
The fear (of the unknown) is supposedly the source of the hatred.

Homophobia: 1. an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: MadeleineG on January 09, 2014, 09:23:52 PM
Quote from: TARDISgirl14 on January 09, 2014, 09:17:53 PM
Now, if you're a linguistic purist then I suggest you start speaking like early man. They had the original language. Keep it pure.  ;D

And that's why I insist my child be a Proto-indoeuropean monoglot.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Thylacin on January 09, 2014, 09:25:31 PM
Quote from: nonameyet on January 09, 2014, 06:37:32 PM
while language has a tendency to change even over short periods it makes no sense to change some of them. so.

a phobia is defined as an intense irrational fear.

hating any lgbt or similar group does NOT make you homophobic.

we really need to find a word for it if its going to be its own thing cause its been bugging me for years.


Phobia is an irrational fear or strong dislike. It's a fine word for it.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: nonameyet on January 10, 2014, 06:03:12 AM
Quote from: TARDISgirl14 on January 09, 2014, 09:17:53 PM
Except for when it isn't...

-phobia
n combining form
1. indicating an extreme abnormal fear of or aversion to: acrophobia; claustrophobia.
[via Latin from Greek, from phobos fear]
-phobic adj combining form


language has a tendency to change and the meaning of -phobia is a good example because it has come from a suffix exclusively meaning 'fear' and evolved into meaning either 'fear' or 'aversion'. Language evolves. Want a word that means 'extreme abnormal or irrational fear or aversion of trans* people'? Transphobia.

Now, if you're a linguistic purist then I suggest you start speaking like early man. They had the original language. Keep it pure.  ;D

at no point did i suggest that i was any sort of linguistic purist. only that some words should remain intact and not follow the absurdity of the current use of 'literally', for example.

aversion is often seen as synonymous with fear, as the former rarely precedes the latter, and even if it werent, i have yet to see it synonymous with hate.

and as for the comment of early mans language development. without early language we never would have become early man in the first place.

and i called for the preservation of the current use and definitions of words where others would suffice. the less to muddle the meanings. not for a reversion to an earlier, more ignorant form of man. a path which already seems well on its own way to being forged without the help of linguistic idiocy.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 06:23:46 AM
Transphobia is the evolution of language in action. No need for a new word to describe something when the meaning is already well understood. I would rather work on reducing the extent of it.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: MadeleineG on January 10, 2014, 08:05:19 AM
We can play with semantics and morphology all we want, but the bottom line is that -phobia has a clear and consistent meaning in our society. And it has utility.

As long as we live in a society that considers fear shameful, calling the haters fearful is to our advantage politically. Add in that the "fear" is nonsensical, and as public awareness grows, the haters appear ever-increasingly absurd.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 01:52:49 PM
Quote from: nonameyet on January 10, 2014, 06:03:12 AM
aversion is often seen as synonymous with fear... i have yet to see it synonymous with hate.

You couldn't have looked very hard.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jamie D on January 10, 2014, 02:54:14 PM
Quote from: Gwynne on January 09, 2014, 09:23:52 PM
And that's why I insist my child be a Proto-indoeuropean monoglot.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/28/proto-indo-european-language-ancestors_n_4005545.html
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 03:21:07 PM
This was another thing that made me loose interest in forums and the net in general. The language police in action. Its tedious and boring.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 03:38:44 PM
I think it's very productive to define terms, as most forum hostilities and misunderstandings are triggered by semantic disputes.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: MadeleineG on January 10, 2014, 05:37:09 PM
Quote from: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 03:38:44 PM
I think it's very productive to define terms, as most forum hostilities and misunderstandings are triggered by semantic disputes.

Ah, but what do we mean by semantics?  :-\
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 05:52:29 PM
Disputes on forums are caused by the fact that they are forums. Thats why they exist. To create and perpetuate disputes and suck up productive time. Not as bad as the constant texting people do, but close. Its like some kind of drug.

Every single forum, but especially those for trans people are exactly the same.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 05:55:05 PM
Quote from: Gwynne on January 10, 2014, 05:37:09 PM
Ah, but what do we mean by semantics?  :-\


No, you came here for an argument.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 06:01:42 PM
Quote from: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 05:52:29 PM
Disputes on forums are caused by the fact that they are forums. Thats why they exist.


That's fine if you're defining "dispute" as discourse, debate and discussion. If you mean hostilities and misunderstandings, that's quite a bleak outlook.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 06:09:59 PM
Its called trolling. Everyone does it from time to time. Livens things up especially when it comes to a topic as completely irrelevant as this one.

We can derail the thread totally and talk about trans vs. transgender vs. transsexual vs. ->-bleeped-<-. That usually pushes a few people right off the edge.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Miss_Bungle1991 on January 10, 2014, 06:13:15 PM
Quote from: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 05:52:29 PM
Every single forum.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

I have been on many forums since 2005 and yeah, I've seen lots of conflict. But I have been on very small forums where things are pretty cool. Even if a dispute pops up, it got discussed, there were no personal attacks and things were resolved in a civil manner. As far as them being a waste of time. Again, you are wrong. I have one forum in particular that, even though it degenerated over time due to stupidity, was VERY important in my growth as a noiser. I came in contact with many cool people on many different levels. Were/are there a lot of jerks there? Yes. BUT the cool experiences absolutely invalidated the stupid crap in the long run.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 06:32:38 PM
Quote from: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 06:09:59 PM
Its called trolling... We can derail the thread totally... usually pushes a few people right off the edge.

I'll keep your views in mind the next time I'm reading one of your posts.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 06:47:29 PM
Yes, do that. Dont take everything seriously.

WTH is a noiser?
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Miss_Bungle1991 on January 10, 2014, 06:48:23 PM
Quote from: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 06:47:29 PM
Yes, do that. Dont take everything seriously.

WTH is a noiser?

Someone that is into Noise Music. No need for the attitude.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 06:52:03 PM
Attitude? Me? Noooo. You must be talking about someone else. Big hug hun.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Miss_Bungle1991 on January 10, 2014, 06:53:05 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 07:00:03 PM
 :angel:
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Miss_Bungle1991 on January 10, 2014, 07:27:59 PM
Quote from: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 07:00:03 PM
:angel:

:icon_pissed:
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: nonameyet on January 10, 2014, 07:38:58 PM
Quote from: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 01:52:49 PM
You couldn't have looked very hard.

didnt have to. i know what synonymous means
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 07:42:13 PM
Quote from: Casey Danielle on January 10, 2014, 07:01:55 PM
That depends on what you mean by argument. ;)

I mean this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLlv_aZjHXc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLlv_aZjHXc)
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: nonameyet on January 10, 2014, 07:44:52 PM
Quote from: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 05:55:05 PM

No, you came here for an argument.

good thing youre here to keep the peace

jeebus. all i did was bring a word to attention.

and now that word became irrelevant to the topic as people argue about whether they are arguing.

silly me. i assumed there was rational discourse to be had.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 07:49:54 PM
Quote from: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 06:47:29 PM
Yes, do that. Dont take everything seriously.



What, like your posts?
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jenna Stannis on January 10, 2014, 07:53:29 PM
Quote from: nonameyet on January 10, 2014, 07:44:52 PM
i assumed there was rational discourse to be had.

This site is all about feels.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: amber1964 on January 10, 2014, 07:55:23 PM
Anyone who actually knows the famous argument skit from Monty Python is a-ok in my book. I would like to buy one please.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: nonameyet on January 11, 2014, 01:01:03 AM
i actually managed to start a thread in which the subject matter was firgotten entirely by the end of the first page and replaced by non sequitous idiocy and intentional trolling.

hooray. progress
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Jenna Stannis on January 11, 2014, 01:11:00 AM
Quote from: nonameyet on January 11, 2014, 01:01:03 AM
i actually managed to start a thread in which the subject matter was firgotten entirely by the end of the first page and replaced by non sequitous idiocy and intentional trolling.

hooray. progress


As long as members don't attempt to highlight or enforce forum rules, anything goes.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Cindy on January 11, 2014, 01:34:36 AM
And people do not become fractious

Cindy
Global Moderator
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: ~RoadToTrista~ on January 11, 2014, 02:04:56 AM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.tinypic.com%2F20ihah.jpg&hash=e43cbd15ff29a01cf26d1e86dc33b09bc319cb3f)
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Cindy on January 11, 2014, 02:08:41 AM
And people are becoming so!

Please don't start silly arguments.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: amber1964 on January 11, 2014, 04:49:32 AM
But we got a video from Monty Python Cindy. I hadnt seen it in years. Made this old lady laugh so hard she nearly peed her pants.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Cindy on January 11, 2014, 04:53:14 AM
I am very happy to keep the thread going!

Just within the rules and no silly arguments.

I love MP!
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Amy1988 on January 11, 2014, 07:57:23 AM
Quote from: nonameyet on January 09, 2014, 06:37:32 PM
while language has a tendency to change even over short periods it makes no sense to change some of them. so.

a phobia is defined as an intense irrational fear.

hating any lgbt or similar group does NOT make you homophobic.

we really need to find a word for it if its going to be its own thing cause its been bugging me for years.

A Lot of those people have doubts about their own sexuality which is manifested into hatred and violence against what they fear they are themselves. 
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: Thylacin on January 11, 2014, 09:39:04 AM
Quote from: nonameyet on January 11, 2014, 01:01:03 AM
i actually managed to start a thread in which the subject matter was firgotten entirely by the end of the first page and replaced by non sequitous idiocy and intentional trolling.

hooray. progress

The subject was pretty much resolved before the end of the first page (in just a few posts). So, the discussion moved towards something else.
Title: Re: okay can we clear this up
Post by: nonameyet on January 11, 2014, 10:50:36 AM
Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on January 11, 2014, 02:04:56 AM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.tinypic.com%2F20ihah.jpg&hash=e43cbd15ff29a01cf26d1e86dc33b09bc319cb3f)


is that actually morgan freemans twitter


nevermind. its not, sadly