Ok...this whole digit ratio thing, is this 100% undeniable proof of being Transgender?
please cuss or discuss ;)
http://transhealthmodule.com/GenderIdentity.html
The bSCT and DES studies however look promising as far as serious attempts to explore the science aspect of biological and chemical causations. Nothing has been proved in double blind tests and bSCT can only be studied post mortem. Visual and body measurements cannot determine anything. :) MRI scans are really inconclusive at this time. :)
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on January 12, 2014, 12:16:30 PM
Oh no... Here it comes again... This is like the 8th time or I have missed some updates? :)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.stack.imgur.com%2FjiFfM.jpg&hash=837e4bcc125ff566e6eb25f783e301bcebd4220e)
And to answer Your question, no it proves nothing :)
This
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on January 12, 2014, 12:16:30 PM
Oh no... Here it comes again... This is like the 8th time or I have missed some updates? :)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.stack.imgur.com%2FjiFfM.jpg&hash=837e4bcc125ff566e6eb25f783e301bcebd4220e)
And to answer Your question, no it proves nothing :)
Well sorry, I must have missed those other threads. I'm glad to hear this. I've been having some conversations on FB and have had people say 'if your fingers aren't like that, you're not Trans'. I figured it was mostly BS but just wanted other opinions. Naturally when starting transition I guess some of us are always looking for 'proof' or an answer to 'why'. Bottom line, if you know in your mind and heart who you are, it really doesn't matter. And I also have a clinical diagnosis for whatever that's worth. ;)
Mine is greater than 1 by a lot.
these are good indicators you are trans:
1) Do you question, feel or know you are the opposite sex?
2) Did you question, feel or know you are the opposite sex at 5?
3) Do you consider yourself trans*
4) Did HRT change your GID from unlivable to tolerable.
5) With or without HRT do you think about the identified gender physical attributes all the time and how you will look and obtain congruency?
If you answer yes then .....
I think some one also mentioned some thing about the width of the skull.
Well, I think there is a correlation, in that more of us have a certain digit ratio than cis people. But it isn't all of us, so it really does not actually matter and def is not 100% proof of anything. PS I could be wrong, I haven't read about it in a while.
The brain thing, I do believe that is more conclusive, in that results have been reproducible. I also think I heard they have been able to study something brain-wise on living people, but again idk for sure. Just something I skimmed a while back or something.
I am less interested in these things than I used to be, otherwise I would be less unsure of everything :).
I'm sorry - is this about giving someone the finger or vice versa?? ;-))
I think measuring your finger digit ratio is proof enough your trans. No non trans person is going to base how they feel about whether or not they are a man or a woman off finger length ratio. :laugh:
Quote from: Bobbi on January 12, 2014, 03:06:40 PM
I'm sorry - is this about giving someone the finger or vice versa?? ;-))
yes
Quote from: JordanBlue on January 12, 2014, 12:12:13 PM
this whole digit ratio thing, is this 100% undeniable proof of being Transgender?
While digit ratios alone are not proof that you're trans*, studies have shown a correlation between digit ratios and prenatal androgen exposure, which, in turn, is implicated in MtF transsexualism.
The finger-ratio thesis:
I have ten fingers, just like my sister! I must be trans :P
I love this topic.
Interestingly enough, a cis girlfriend of mine had a conversation about how she feels very masculine and has several other of these "trans traits" like playing with toys of the opposite sex as a child, yadda yadda. I measured her digit ratio and she was far into the male range. Even if this topic has been beaten into the bush, it's still interesting and makes for funny conversations :)
Quote from: Gwynne on January 12, 2014, 03:49:57 PM
The finger-ratio thesis:
I have ten fingers, just like my sister! I must be trans :P
wow, most people only have 8.
Thats two thumbs up for Jaine's answer, and my fingers are the same length so I must be---confused :)
Quote from: justpat on January 12, 2014, 06:32:31 PM
Thats two thumbs up for Jaine's answer, and my fingers are the same length so I must be---confused :)
1:1 is by the 2D:4D ratio considered estrogen dominance. Congratulations :)
Quote from: Jennygirl on January 12, 2014, 07:03:38 PM
1:1 is by the 2D:4D ratio considered estrogen dominance. Congratulations :)
so, I'm a girl
What if you're from the Reptilian race from the lower 4th dimension?
Quote from: JS on January 12, 2014, 07:16:33 PM
No, only your fingers.
darn , I had a nice out fit picked out.
Quote from: stephaniec on January 12, 2014, 07:22:54 PM
darn , I had a nice out fit picked out.
Just dress up your hands and you're good to go. :P
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcephotos.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2Fmanicure_blog.jpg&hash=b978f812a42e4c2723f545498d774121f5784982)
Ok so I have girly fingers attached to a guy suit :(,now I am really confused. I hope this don't mean I can only paint four nails--- would different colors be ok?
Quote from: Gwynne on January 12, 2014, 07:25:39 PM
Just dress up your hands and you're good to go. :P
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcephotos.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2Fmanicure_blog.jpg&hash=b978f812a42e4c2723f545498d774121f5784982)
You know what?
I like this look a lot.
Could these nails work if a person wasn't FT yet?
Quote from: JordanBlue on January 12, 2014, 08:44:11 PM
You know what?
I like this look a lot.
Could these nails work if a person wasn't FT yet?
I honestly think so. I've been wearing similar styles for months to a professional workplace and not one word has been said.
Had an interesting conversation with a friend about this today, but it can be in no means total proof.
Strangely, the ration on my left hand is greater than 1, while on the right it is ever so slightly less than one, if not just about equal.
Of course, it has no bearing on what gender I identify with.
I don't see it as "proof of being trans" cuz I don't NEED that, I know exactly who I am, always have.
Buuut, I do see it as good proof that being trans IS inborn and NOT psychological. Example, my index finger is waay longer, so is my moms and little sisters (they're cisfemales).
My littles brother and dads ring fingers are both longer on the other hand and they're both cismales.
My sister is female but has repeatedly said she feels male inside but doesn't want to transition. Gues what? Her ring finger is waay longer.
To me that's pretty good proof of the hormones we got in utero. And it makes since cuz from a very early age I felt this WAS innate..like I was able to distinguish my desire to be female from other desires as more funamental, and I realized when I was reaaally little that I dudnt feel like I WANTEd to be female I felt like I already WAS.
I have ten fingers, just like my sister! I must be trans :P
[/quote] me too... justified!!
While I understand the need for those early in transition to validate their transition and seek out stuff that validates it. But this should in no way indicate whether you are trans or not. (I got hung up on this silliness early on too) And btw my 2 and 4 fingers may be the same size but that's not what tells me I'm a woman I knew I was a woman long before I heard about this finger ratio silliness. :)
Quote from: Gwynne on January 12, 2014, 09:04:08 PM
I honestly think so. I've been wearing similar styles for months to a professional workplace and not one word has been said.
Really?
I was thinking they might work because the white tip isn't quite as wide as most that you see. I really like the look of that. I need to do something but I can't go full blown femme nails yet as I'm not FT now.
Well, I must say that there have a been quite few people here who are both trans women and have a female digital ratio profile. So, you know, while digit ratio is admittedly not proof of being trans and despite the protests thus far, there does seem to be a correlation. Nobody's claiming that it is proof anyway, just that there's a correlation. Just sayin'.
Quote from: JordanBlue on January 12, 2014, 11:13:40 PM
Really?
I was thinking they might work because the white tip isn't quite as wide as most that you see. I really like the look of that. I need to do something but I can't go full blown femme nails yet as I'm not FT now.
I leave off the white tip and just go with a coat of clear or that translucent creamy colour. People may have noticed, but they probably chalk it up to "eccentric character to begin with" or "guitarist habits".
I should wear a colour to work just to see the reaction.
I wore gel nails of bright red before going FT and no one said anything!
Quote from: Cindy on January 12, 2014, 11:46:59 PM
I wore gel nails of bright red before going FT and no one said anything!
Now that's attitude! ;)
Not quite sure I have that much attitude myself, though...
I woke up this morning and noticed that my toes go in descending order from my big toe on down. I'm sure this is significant by I'm confused
I'm going to steal a quote from the last thread:
QuoteFrom a study of 136 males and 137 females:[13]
Males: mean 0.947, standard deviation 0.029.
Females: mean 0.965, standard deviation 0.026.
Assuming a normal distribution, the 10th and 90th percentiles for males are 0.910 and 0.984. For females: 0.932 and 0.998.
My estimated 2D:4D digit ratio: 1.04
Male t-score: t = (1.04 - 0.947)/0.029 ~= 3.21 (df = 135, Two-tail p = 0.0017)
Female t-score: t = (1.04 - 0.965)/0.026 ~= 2.88 (df = 136, Two-tail p = 0.0046)
With a 99% level of confidence, I conclude I am neither a human male a nor human female. Either I have some other gender, or I AM OF ANOTHER SPECIES!
(Conclusion of non-human nature subject to other tests or Bayesian statistics (http://xkcd.com/1132/).)
If humanity and binary gender status is actually assumed, the estimated ratio of women to men with higher digit ratio is remarkably less than 3:1 (helped by females having a lower standard deviation). Even presuming humanity and gender binary, the trans test is insufficiently predictive.