How to Know if Your Date is Transgendered
Edited by Richard, Rob S, Tom Viren, Brandywine and 34 others
http://www.wikihow.com/Know-if-Your-Date-is-Transgendered (http://www.wikihow.com/Know-if-Your-Date-is-Transgendered)
Although some people are open about being transgender, others consider this to be private information and want to know that they can trust you before sharing intimate details. If you feel this may be the case with your date and would like to find out politely and discretely, follow these steps.
Edit Steps
1
Be courteous and don't make accusations regarding their sex. Trans people who keep their physical transition to themselves when meeting new people usually do so out of self-preservation, not deception. If you go on the offensive act like you're sniffing out an enemy spy, your date is more likely to shut down – whether cisgender or transgender. Instead, make your date feel safe enough to tell you about his or her past if necessary. (And since this is dating 101, it will also improve your dating experience.)
2
Look for a constellation of physical attributes. People's bodies are incredibly diverse and a single physical characteristic won't say much about a person one way or the other. Moreover, genital reconstructive surgery has come such a long way that many who undergo it (not all trans people do) are indistinguishable from those who haven't. However, noticing a strong pattern of physical attributes may suggest that your date was assigned a sex at birth that he or she does not identify with. If you feel that you can pull this off without making your date feel like you're either ogling them or scanning them for data, try the following:
OMG! Words Fail!
Did I really just read that? ???
I want to start an article how do you know you date is cis!
Quote from: kelly_aus on January 14, 2014, 07:09:30 AM
Did I really just read that? ???
Yeah, you did just read that. It's been out for a while now.
... I hate to tell 'em this, but I like to wear scarves (Not so much to hide my adam's apple which really isn't that noticeable compared to many, but to cover scarring on my neck), I have female digit ratio proportioned finger tips, and because I saw this article if I ever wind up dating someone I'm now letting
them go up steps first. Going by this my foot size might give me away, but since I'm rather short (5'6) that may not be as noticeable.
But you know what comes to mind most? I'm willing to bet this article is going to ruin a night out for a lot of cisgender women out there ... Right after they dump some poor guy who saw this wiki how article.
I compleatly agree. A lot of ciswomen out there are having very lousy dates because of this. I know my Adams apple is next to nil, my finger ratio is that of a ciswoman, and I have become a master at walking in a feminine manner. Even up the steps...
However I would not feel right if the other person was looking for clues like they would have to to follow this article.
Given the fact that people m and f, have the right to whom they choose to enter a relationship with....they're in fact entitled to that...and for cis people having a child wish....I think this site is pretty respectful to cis and T people.
QuoteDon't be a prude. If dating a transgender person doesn't interest you, that's fine, but it doesn't entitle you to look down on them or anyone who would want to be with them. Human sexuality is extremely fluid and many people will happily explore a relationship with a transgender person. In fact, some people actively seek them out.
No condemnation, no prejudice, just plain, realistic honesty.
Well to be honest if your date is checking you out as to whether you are cis or trans, why are you going out with him?
The "How to Know if Your Date is" concept is utterly offensive. No one would have battered an eyelid to How to Know if Your Date is a Jew, in Nazi Germany. So why should we be offended by this, heh? Getting a ruler out and sneaking a look at Phrenology for Dummies will get you as far as those stereotypical 'trans' traits listed, which make me giggle. Which for me are more like putting them off the 'scent'.
I hope no one asks my cisfriend if she's trans due to her digit ratio. >.>
This is about as helpful as the wiki article... 'How to Know if Your Date is Extraterrestrial."
OK, opening myself up for flames here, but I LIKED the article, aside from the ridiculousness about digit ratio.
First of all, posting information about how to tell if someone is trans is not transphobic. It's merely informational. Could be misused in some contexts, but I don't think merely posting the information is an act of transphobia.
I also liked:
* It does NOT tell people not to date us. In fact it specifically mentions "making an informed decision" about continuing to see us.
* It points out how difficult a situation this is for US. We have done a terrible job as a community getting people to see this. We could use all the help we can get.
* It also points out that it is our information to tell as we see fit and that others are not entitled to know.
* Ends with "If you aren't sure what to do next, learn how to respect a transgender person. If necessary, learn to deal with your transphobia. " Enough said.
Sorry to go against the current. Not likely to make me a popular person around here. Please bear in mind that I am going through EXACTLY this in my personal life. I've put myself out there in the dating scene had have gotten exactly zero interest.
I have seen this (and several other web sites with similar info) before. This is absurd. For every typically male physical attribute you can name I can show you a genetic woman who has it just as bad, and sometimes even worse.
What amazes me is how many trans women I meet who regard this as gospel and fret about the length of their fingers or the size of their feet.
* sigh *
As if there weren't more important issues to worry about.
QuoteOK, opening myself up for flames here, but I LIKED the article, aside from the ridiculousness about digit ratio.
In a way, it does seem to stress the attitude one shouldn't fly off the handle and harm someone when they learn they've dated a transgender individual, that's a positive. It didn't seem to be a 'snark' piece either.
I just found their clues to be funny, a bit naïve. "Walk behind them when going up stairs"? I do that anyway, not checking if I'm with a transgender woman though...
This is just me, but when I date women, if I can't tell you're anything but a woman, I just don't care. :D
Bad reactions one may have I think are usually based on homophobia rather than transphobia. I think a more serious piece would counsel potential homophobes to not get their chewin' tobacco in a wade. ;)
I wish there would be a similar article....TBH....for MTF who are only into masculine men such as 'How to Know If Your Manly, Masculine Date is a secretive, closeted cd, tv, tg or even pre TS'
Finding out (too late) your manly, masculine date turns out to be a tv, cd etc is a very unpleasant surprise when you're into masculine men only.
Plus the knowledge that's it's not about you, but about what you are.
Same thing goes for ciswomen as well by the way...'How to Know If Your Straight Date is a Future Lesbian Transsexual'
That would save those ciswomen a lot of future trouble, an inflicted ID crisis, a broken heart, disappointment etc etc.
Quote from: Cindy on January 14, 2014, 08:28:57 AM
Well to be honest if your date is checking you out as to whether you are cis or trans, why are you going out with him?
Because he has a specific preference for ciswomen and is completely entitled to have a preference like that.
Quote from: Dahlia on January 14, 2014, 02:08:38 PM
Because he has a specific preference for ciswomen and is completely entitled to have a preference like that.
it would still be rude, you know. besides being in a relationship with a transwoman or a ciswoman, what's the deal? If he loves her it shouldn't matter.
My two cents,
Zoot "Guybrush" Threepwood (TM), who is out of place on this part of the board but insists on giving his opinion.
Quote from: Dahlia on January 14, 2014, 02:03:49 PM
I wish there would be a similar article....TBH....for MTF who are only into masculine men such as 'How to Know If Your Manly, Masculine Date is a secretive, closeted cd, tv, tg or even pre TS'
Finding out (too late) your manly, masculine date turns out to be a tv, cd etc is a very unpleasant surprise when you're into masculine men only.
Plus the knowledge that's it's not about you, but about what you are.
Same thing goes for ciswomen as well by the way...'How to Know If Your Straight Date is a Future Lesbian Transsexual'
That would save those ciswomen a lot of future trouble, an inflicted ID crisis, a broken heart, disappointment etc etc.
I suppose you just need to dig deep into their closets................ literally. ;)
That's about the only way, they're just typical normal guys.
Quote from: Dahlia on January 14, 2014, 02:08:38 PM
Because he has a specific preference for ciswomen and is completely entitled to have a preference like that.
Huh ... what? What does that mean? Is he a geneticist who wants to look at your chromosomes? Is he an anthropologist who's doing research on your female socialization? Or is he just a closet homophobe who can't bear the idea of being with anyone who once had a penis?
Quote from: Michelle-G on January 14, 2014, 02:51:25 PM
Huh ... what? What does that mean? Is he a geneticist who wants to look at your chromosomes? Is he an anthropologist who's doing research on your female socialization? Or is he just a closet homophobe who can't bear the idea of being with anyone who once had a penis?
How about a 100% heterosexual guy who's into ciswomen only? Who's not necessarily 'homophobe' because of his natural sexual preference?
Who might have a childwish with a ciswoman?
Calling someone like that a 'closet homophobe' is.....heterophobe.
I agree with Suzi...I think the article does have some strengths. But the whole "constellation of physical features" crap...doesn't really do much good. I used to see people and wonder if they were trans because they had a certain set of features, and then, it turned out, they weren't. So I've come to realize that you can never know, even if you think you know what features to look for.
But honestly, I'm at the point where if my current interest doesn't work out, I'm not going to date. I'd rather be alone than have people wondering if I'm trans on a date.
I could have gone through this day without reading this thread. That would have been nice if that happened.
I don't think I would want to be near someone who is more interested in figuring out if I am trans or not than in finding out if we share hobbies or movies or other various interests.
Quote from: Dahlia on January 14, 2014, 03:06:31 PM
How about a 100% heterosexual guy who's into ciswomen only? Who's not necessarily 'homophobe' because of his natural sexual preference?
How does sexual preference figure into this? If he prefers women he prefers women. Whether they are cis or trans is irrelevant, unless he's concerned with plumbing. And I can understand that he may have a preference for vaginal sex and prefers to date someone who's not pre-op, but sexual preference has nothing to do with anyone's gender identity.
Oh, and broaching the sexual preference issue pretty much guarantees that terms related to LGBT politics will eventually be used. Sorry.
Quote from: Dahlia on January 14, 2014, 03:06:31 PM
Who might have a childwish with a ciswoman?
Then the issue here is that he wants to have kids of his own with a mate who can bear them. Thus, he'd reject a ciswoman who could not conceive as well. It may sound like I'm splitting hairs, but let's say what we mean, OK?
Again, cis or trans is still not an issue; it's a matter of female fertility.
Quote from: Dahlia on January 14, 2014, 03:06:31 PMCalling someone like that a 'closet homophobe' is.....heterophobe.
Maybe. But from your previous post I get the feeling that the issue here is not the woman's gender identity but her body configuration. Unless it's that childbearing thing or that preference for a certain sexual ACT (as opposed to a sexual orientation) then it's most likely penis-related (and it's most likely his problem with hers), and he either does not recognize her gender or he has unresolved questions about her (or his, or both) sexual orientation. Apply whatever description that makes you comfortable.
Quote from: Michelle-G on January 15, 2014, 08:32:01 AM
Quote from: Dahlia on January 14, 2014, 03:06:31 PMCalling someone like that a 'closet homophobe' is.....heterophobe.
Maybe. But from your previous post I get the feeling that the issue here is not the woman's gender identity but her body configuration. Unless it's that childbearing thing then it's most likely penis-related, and that means he either does not recognize her gender or he has unresolved questions about her (or his, or both) sexual orientation. Apply whatever description that makes you comfortable.
Agreed. I agree that everyone has a right to want or not want whomever for whatever reason. And as painful as it may be for trans people - a lot of times we physically don't approximate the male or female ideal. For instance, I'm short and most women prefer tall men. And I understand about genital preference.
But I think the main reason a straight guy would reject a beautiful, feminine trans woman (that he would otherwise date if she was cis) would be due to hang-ups and fears. That's where the 'trap' meme comes in. Since I've been living as a guy, I've had guys ask me stuff like 'hey what would you do if I introduced you to a really hot chick but she... wasn't really a chick! Would you hold it against me?'
I had mixed feelings about the article. I think it tried to be respectful and could possibly be helpful if someone who really has a problem dating us ran across it, but somehow it still left a bad taste in my mouth. Women's bodies are scrutinized enough. The last thing they (cis or trans) need is for their dates to be scouring their bodies for traces of masculine features. I think the tips offered would make anyone cis or trans very self-conscious if their date was doing that.
Quote from: FA on January 15, 2014, 10:05:39 AM
But I think the main reason a straight guy would reject a beautiful, feminine trans woman (that he would otherwise date if she was cis) would be due to hang-ups and fears. That's where the 'trap' meme comes in. Since I've been living as a guy, I've had guys ask me stuff like 'hey what would you do if I introduced you to a really hot chick but she... wasn't really a chick! Would you hold it against me?'
Geesh. I never had this come up during my try-to-be-a-guy years. Is this something men commonly discuss or even think about?
Quote from: FA on January 15, 2014, 10:05:39 AM
I had mixed feelings about the article. I think it tried to be respectful and could possibly be helpful if someone who really has a problem dating us ran across it, but somehow it still left a bad taste in my mouth. Women's bodies are scrutinized enough. The last thing they (cis or trans) need is for their dates to be scouring their bodies for traces of masculine features. I think the tips offered would make anyone cis or trans very self-conscious if their date was doing that.
I have mixed feelings because it does feed the deceptive/top trap meme. But I've been reading things like this since the 1990s and this is the first one that I've seen that has at least allowed for the possibility of wanting to continue dating the person and tried to do something better than just living the deception meme.
Quote from: Michelle-G on January 15, 2014, 08:32:01 AM
How does sexual preference figure into this? If he prefers women he prefers women.
I think he wouldn't prefer a woman with a prostate and a (elaborate) past as a cisman, if he's 100% heterosexual..
Quote
or he has unresolved questions about her (or his, or both) sexual orientation.
That would be the other way around, wouldn't it?
He has a
fixed sexual ID and sexual orientation. It would be unfair to force him into something else.
I would run for sure if a masculine XY cisman turns out to be a tv/cd/tg or even pre TS....because my sexual orientation is fixed as well and no 'unresolved questions' here...I'm simply not into (part time) women, but into masculine men only.
You still don't get it, do you?
A man is gay if he desires another man, not just because he desires a partner with a penis. Being gay or straight is about who your partner is, not how they are configured.
There's a difference between having a preference for a certain sexual act (in this case, requiring a penis) and having a preference for men. That the two usually come together is merely circumstantial.
Quote from: Dahlia on January 19, 2014, 07:33:35 AM
I think he wouldn't prefer a woman with a prostate and a (elaborate) past as a cisman, if he's 100% heterosexual..
And what the heck do prostates have to do with this? Or her past? Why is her past history of trying to live in a male role any more complicated than a woman with a past life of poverty, or living in a foreign country, or anything else? None of this has to be regarded as elaborate unless people want to make it a bigger deal than it is.
Oh, and a trans woman does NOT have a past as a cis man. That's the whole freakin' point of being a trans woman in the first place!
Questioning the validity (or the percentage) of a man's heterosexuality because he has the capacity to overlook a woman's correctable birth defect is rather narrow-minded and shows a remarkable lack of understanding of sexual orientation issues.
Quote from: Dahlia on January 19, 2014, 07:33:35 AMHe has a fixed sexual ID and sexual orientation. It would be unfair to force him into something else.
Nobody's forcing anyone into anything. If the guy prefers vaginal sex he can either move on to a woman equipped with a vagina or wait until the trans woman in question acquires one. It's that simple.
Quote from: Dahlia on January 19, 2014, 07:33:35 AMI would run for sure if a masculine XY cisman turns out to be a tv/cd/tg or even pre TS....because my sexual orientation is fixed as well and no 'unresolved questions' here...I'm simply not into (part time) women, but into masculine men only.
* sigh * Really? For that I'd call you a troll if your post count weren't so high.
Do you really not know the difference between these terms? You seriously need to educate yourself. TV is an archaic term. TG covers anyone who is gender-variant (although that term itself is being reexamined), and CDs simply do not regard themselves as women.
Trans women are not "part time" women, and there are plenty of straight men who have relationships or are even married to trans women, regardless of their body configurations, just as there are straight men who are married to cis women regardless of their body configurations.
Come on, Dahlia, who are you really?
("How to tell your date is a jerk : he's reading articles like this one.")
Personally, I think I have a sexual orientation towards people who aren't obsessed with karyotyping me and figuring out if my G-spot is "really" a prostate. IMO, if a straight man sees me as a woman, he'd have no problem dating me; if he doesn't, I have a HUGE problem with dating *him.*
(Theoretically. I'm not in the market right now, thanks to being happily married to my wife. But I am bi, and I would otherwise consider as my bare minimum for dating eligibility - a man who includes women in the group of people he's attracted to.)
I understand there are men that wouldn't want to date me because I'm trans. It hurts, but it's their choice and I respect that. However, if a guy was really investigating me and looking all over my body for potential signs that I could be trans, that would annoy the hell out of me. I know plenty of ciswomen that could have some "trans signs" and be clocked. Hell, I think I could pass better than many ciswomen that I know, so what does that say. It's stupid to make assumptions like that.
Quote from: Michelle-G on January 19, 2014, 09:17:40 AM
A man is gay if he desires another man, not just because he desires a partner with a penis. Being gay or straight is about who your partner is, not how they are configured.
That describes me perfectly but it did take me a while to figure that out. There was a long period of time when I had a lot of anxiety about dating a trans man. It took me a while to desensitize to a lot of societal conditioning about gender (like that it's black & white or that it's forever tied to genital configuration).
I think if I had tried to date a trans man in that time, perhaps due to pressure to not be transphobic, it would not have gone well. I just wasn't ready. Now I feel ready. I don't think anyone should have to explain their preferences or defend themselves for them. We can't even explain it to ourselves why we're attracted to what most of the time.
That said, what bugs me about this article is that it's perpetuating stereotypes that are unreliable at best. I can see a lot of guys rejecting a cis woman because they've concluded she might be trans. I can imagine a lot of people arbitrarily nitpicking details about their date and labeling them as masculine or feminine and making up a scorecard in their head--silly details they might not have even noticed before when they were maybe looking at the entire package and thinking "hubba hubba!" It's like a lesson in shallowness. Some of us are plenty shallow enough without lessons. ;)
Human sexuality and attraction is truly diverse. Please be respectful of others in this topic, even if you cannot fathom another person's orientation or choices.
News Admin
In talking to (straight) men on this topic they confess that dating a post-op trans woman is a problem because it threatens their idea of being straight. In other words, they do not see trans women as being women.
I have a Gay friend who is TOTALLY Gay and has no problem at all with trans. When I joked about hooking up with him, he said "No way honey! You're all woman and I am not in to women!" In other words he DOES see trans women as women.
Totally different perceptions.
Quote from: Northern Jane on January 20, 2014, 07:50:17 AM
In talking to (straight) men on this topic they confess that dating a post-op trans woman is a problem because it threatens their idea of being straight. In other words, they do not see trans women as being women.
While that opinion is common it's not as common as some would have us believe, and unfortunately many trans women have come to the conclusion that this is the norm among straight men. It's not.
I know several trans women who are married to straight men, and all of the ones I know were married when they were still pre-op. My own boyfriend is straight and he's been with me since about a year before my GRS.
You're right, acceptance of our gender is a matter of perception, but your gay friend's perception is probably more influenced by his own open mindedness than anything.