Just wondering if it's possible. I know hormones do a little, but won't help all that much with achieving anything close to "curvy" just curious because you see fashion models (Carmen Carrera is probably the first off the top of my head) who have great curves. I suspect it's plastic surgery, but hey, prove me wrong.
If you are talking about real, significant curves its not possible without surgery. My body is as about as close as you can get. So 36 inch chest, 26 inch waist but only 30 inch hips. What you are looking at is 12 inch (or more) differences so more like 36-24-36 or 36-22-36. Hard for someone born female bodied, impossible for a male body. To get close, you need to have fortunate genetics, really good HRT and starve yourself well below anything like a normal weight.
It just depends on how young you start hrt. If you manage to get on hrt before your bones set, they'll change like wide hips, smaller frame etc..
Perhaps. But bones are set with puberty and test. So if you never went through that, then perhaps. But if you start HRT in later teens, I would say impossible. Bones are set and the damage is done. For sure, the younger you begin the better it is. For future generations perhaps.
Its possible, maybe, maybe not, just depends, who knows, etc.
Its not an easy answer other than it depends on a number of factors and just what you mean by curves. Because the exaggerated kind that is often pushed by media and such is often unattainable even by cis women.
I'm a little confused at the other answer cuz I have a pretty feminine shape. My chest is 32, waist is 26 (if I suckin I can get it to about 24 inches) and hips are just under 34. I first started HRT early 2013 at around 17 (or just after turning 18 cuz I'm still 18 atm). When I started hormones I was severely anorexic with a BMI of only 16.0 or so (my waist was off the charts tiny like very loww side of 20's), but gained a lot of weight leaving me with a BMI of 19.5 at the moment (normal range).
People have actually commented on my figure, loots of people do. Even my mom said I'm pretty hourglass looking. I'm not sure if its just the hormones or good genes or both, but I don't really care either xD
You do have good measurements hun. My BMI in the picture you see is about 17. But I have been thinner. Know all about anorexia. Also you started HRT very very young.
BUt the poster was asking about very curvy, more like Marilyn Monroe type figure. Other words, spectacular even for a cis female. She referenced Carmen Carrera - that you are not with that body. Your hips are way too small. Without surgery - not possible for us.
I think it's genetics... I started HRT at 32 and am now (just went and measured) 42DDD-34-44. Yeah, not skinny, and I wish I *looked* more hourglass, but that's still not too bad?
Of course, my sister has a 28" waist and 40" hips (and 38D), so I still feel like I could be a lot more curvy.
No idea what Carrera's measurements are, though!
Carmen woul probably be something like 36-38 D chest, waist about 24-25 and hips 38-40. My guess. Its the difference and the hips. Our bones and extra ribs limit what you can get without surgery. Its also precisely where body fat goes, especially Latina females, they got the booty naturally.
But its all just numbers, like weight. What matters is liking what you see in the mirror. That matters a lot and not everyone is born to be tiny, or extra curvy, or have big breasts or whatever. Not worth stressing over, just creates anxiety and personally I think its a bad idea.
I'm 37" around my bust, 28" waist and 39" hips. I could be worse. :laugh: I've had a bit of liposculpture, but didn't make much difference in the measurements. I've also had a BA. I do do cardio and barbell squats or leg press. That made more difference than any surgery. I'm up to about 220lbs on the leg press.
Extra Ribs?
Quote from: amber1964 on January 15, 2014, 06:15:29 PM
Our bones and extra ribs limit what you can get without surgery.
It is all on your gens and bones....
After several years on HRT I am to 38-32-40....and I am not petite thing either...I am 5 11 185 lb
I concur I'm not sure it's possible to achieve even measurements top and bottom in a healthy weight range for MtFs. Personally I'm 41-35-40 at 18 months robust HT, high weight range (5'8" 177lb) A small amount is building down there, I am a regular on the elliptical at the gym.
I have talked about fat sculpting and BA at the plastic surgery center that currently does my laser. They are quick to point out that while they can do fat transfer, it's going to be a 75% loss on fat transferred, so immediate results are not representative and to overdo it a bit. I have not gotten serious enough to get cost estimates here in Missouri at that center.
Quote from: amber1964 on January 15, 2014, 05:18:54 PM
But if you start HRT in later teens, I would say impossible.
Not impossible, I started at 21 and pre hrt my hip measurement was 34" Just shy of two years I'm at 40" with a 29" waist. My waist could be smaller if I just worked out but meh I like my pudge :laugh: However my pelvis definitely changed, not just added fat. Shortly after hrt began, I noticed my sitting posture with my lower body changed like my knees started to naturally bend inward, just like a cis female. Also I'm about 5'10 140 lbs
Quote from: amber1964 on January 15, 2014, 06:18:14 PM
But its all just numbers, like weight. What matters is liking what you see in the mirror. That matters a lot and not everyone is born to be tiny, or extra curvy, or have big breasts or whatever. Not worth stressing over, just creates anxiety and personally I think its a bad idea.
SO MUCH THIS!! very much agreed.
Anatomy 101
Yes, males have more ribs than females. You can research for yourself. The reasons should be obvious. You can get a surgery and have them removed if you are really severely dysphoric and persistent. But its deep and nasty and dangerous. I only know one person IRL who has done this.
Amber : Well, actual anatomy 101 sources disagree with you. Men and women have the same number of ribs - 12 pairs each. http://education.yahoo.com/reference/gray/subjects/subject/28 (Gray's Anatomy discusses ribs with no qualifiers as to sex/chromosomes/etc.)
http://answers.webmd.com/answers/1198400/how-many-ribs-do-we-have
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rib_cage
This site even has X-rays : http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio105/ribs.htm
Quote from: amber1964 on January 15, 2014, 07:20:00 PM
Anatomy 101
Yes, males have more ribs than females. You can research for yourself. The reasons should be obvious. You can get a surgery and have them removed if you are really severely dysphoric and persistent. But its deep and nasty and dangerous. I only know one person IRL who has done this.
Ummm, yeah. No. Nothing I can find anywhere says that men have more ribs than women. In fact, most anatomical links I found say that it's rather hard to tell sex by skeleton alone.
EDIT: Jenna beat me to it. But yeah. That's complete and utter malarkey.
If you want to show that you're right on that point, find me specific sources that state it, instead of just telling me to look it up myself. I did look it up, and everything I found says that what you're claiming is false.
On the point, no, I don't mean like Marilyn Monroe, but perhaps I was a bit off with my allusion to Carmen Carrera. I just mean curves. In general, that would be good for most ciswomen, but not necessarily mindblowing.
Anyway, my measurements are 34-29-36 but unfortunately my shoulders happen to be rather atrocious.
This thread was kind of my last bet. I'm kind of giving up. I've been worrying about my body and honestly it's killing me. I got really carried away when I started transition with letting myself think that I could end up drawing more pride from my body, but all that's happened is made me severely depressed. I think I'm going back to before I transitioned. Well, I'm not de-transitioning, but I'm going back to the days when my body was just a vessel for my brain XD
Just be happy. Yes, same number of ribs. You can have the bottom two - so total of 4 ribs - removed. A famous surgeon in Mexico does this surgery. They then have to do a tummy tuck and lipo to give a really wasp waisted look.
If you are truly persistent you can find this person for yourself.
If you like what you see the measurements are just numbers. If you dont like what you see they can become all life is about. Thats dangerous and often fatal.
Or you can fall off the deep end and become anorexic like me. Not a good idea.
Quote from: amber1964 on January 15, 2014, 07:52:46 PM
Just be happy. Yes, same number of ribs. You can have the bottom two - so total of 4 ribs - removed. A famous surgeon in Mexico does this surgery. They then have to do a tummy tuck and lipo to give a really wasp waisted look.
If you are truly persistent you can find this person for yourself.
If you like what you see the measurements are just numbers. If you dont like what you see they can become all life is about. Thats dangerous and often fatal.
Or you can fall off the deep end and become anorexic like me. Not a good idea.
Okay. So same number of ribs. Then why were you arguing that men had extra ribs? Why are you saying that you can have 4 ribs removed? Literally what purpose does that serve?
Also, if you read my above post you'd seen that I'd basically said what you're saying here. Focusing on my body is killing me. It's a vessel for my brain, nothing more.
Read my above post more closely before replying please.
Quote from: Stella Lunaris on January 15, 2014, 12:52:14 PM
Just wondering if it's possible. I know hormones do a little, but won't help all that much with achieving anything close to "curvy" just curious because you see fashion models (Carmen Carrera is probably the first off the top of my head) who have great curves. I suspect it's plastic surgery, but hey, prove me wrong.
Yes, it's possible. I have started to develop noticeable hips. They are still small, but larger than my mother's. I am quite thin, and athletic so it isn't totally because of the amount of body fat I have.
Interesting.
Wearing a 36B bra (I think I'm going to change to 34C once I get some more money, as my underbust is a 33, and this one feels a bit too wide) I turn out to be a BWH of 39-30-40. I think I can take that midsection down 2-4 inches with HRT and exercise, having it switch to actual boobs.
Guess I've always had a nice booty, no wonder friends slap it sometimes :P
Hi friends :police:
Most of the comments are okay but there have been a few kinda snippy remarks and an outburst
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, let's make sure to not take another person's comments personally and keep the conversation civil
Name calling and/or comments that could reasonably be construed as a personal attack will not be tolerated
Thank you
V M
I plan on getting mine via surgery. It'd be nice if hormones did it for me but that's just not reality.
I plan on getting a brazilian butt lift, lipo sculpture, and breast implants. It's amazing what can be done if you're fleshy enough and have extra weight. I've been researching females who've had these procedures who had sad looking bodies who now look like their own versions of Jessica Rabbit lol.
If you can't grow it buy it!!
Quote from: Nicolette on January 15, 2014, 06:33:55 PM
I'm 37" around my bust, 28" waist and 39" hips. I could be worse. :laugh: I've had a bit of liposculpture, but didn't make much difference in the measurements. I've also had a BA. I do do cardio and barbell squats or leg press. That made more difference than any surgery. I'm up to about 220lbs on the leg press.
I agree with Nicolette, exercise can do a lot. I've been conditioning, which is focused on enlarging hips and butt, and slimming waist. Clothes can also make a difference. If you like wearing pleated skirts, they can help emphasize the difference between waist and hips. Tapered tops and jackets can also help.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.tinypic.com%2F35a2bs4.jpg&hash=8cca30134ef197b0497aac0096cb4b4a13326e6a)
Quote from: Jenna Marie on January 15, 2014, 07:39:38 PM
Amber : Well, actual anatomy 101 sources disagree with you. Men and women have the same number of ribs - 12 pairs each. http://education.yahoo.com/reference/gray/subjects/subject/28 (Gray's Anatomy discusses ribs with no qualifiers as to sex/chromosomes/etc.)
http://answers.webmd.com/answers/1198400/how-many-ribs-do-we-have
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rib_cage
This site even has X-rays : http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio105/ribs.htm
LOL... minus the one where Eve come from I suppose...LOL
Quote from: amber1964 on January 15, 2014, 06:15:29 PM
Carmen woul probably be something like 36-38 D chest, waist about 24-25 and hips 38-40. My guess. Its the difference and the hips. Our bones and extra ribs limit what you can get without surgery. Its also precisely where body fat goes, especially Latina females, they got the booty naturally.
Ugh, I don't even know where to begin with you.
1) Men and women have the same number of ribs. Anyone who has taken a gross anatomy course can attest to that. Even if you took Adam and Eve literally, then men would have fewer than women naturally.
2) This untrue generalization of Latinas borders on racism.
weird , the things you learn on Susan's. I always thought man had I less then woman , wow, I guess Adam started out with an extra one. sorry for the side track.
Quote from: IMsteph on January 16, 2014, 09:50:53 AM
I agree with Nicolette, exercise can do a lot. I've been conditioning, which is focused on enlarging hips and butt, and slimming waist. Clothes can also make a difference. If you like wearing pleated skirts, they can help emphasize the difference between waist and hips. Tapered tops and jackets can also help.
Cardio and lower-body resistance training will lower your centre of gravity. A wide stance with weight on the heels with leg press or squats will work your butt muscles more. I actually purchased all the equipment I need because I was pretty serious about it, so basically have my own gym and can do it when I want.
I'm not promoting SRS, but I've found that it has helped with the curves because it allows me to wear skin tight clothes and my jeans even sit further up, shortening my upper body and lengthening my legs. My butt is more pronounced because it's not being compressed and distorted by two or three pairs of tight knickers.
It can be done. But with a little helping hand from some lipo and nothing radical.
Edit: BTW, my BMI is a healthy 22.4.
What Nicolette has already said a couple times. Hip abductor exercises, squats, leg presses. Also other exercises to tone your midsection can help (sit-ups, waist rotators, etc).
I'm on my phone so i can't really post links, but there's a YouTube video of feminizing exercises I've seen around here several times.
Quote from: stephaniec on January 16, 2014, 12:35:54 PM
weird , the things you learn on Susan's. I always thought man had I less then woman , wow, I guess Adam started out with an extra one. sorry for the side track.
Well, even if there had been an Adam, surgery doesn't change genetics, so his offspring would have had his pre-surgery rib count.
Did anyone try Jamaican Peritols?
I honestly believe long term corseting is the way to go for reduced waist line, provided a person is still in early stages of life where the floating ribs can be moved somewhat. But some people will not benefit from this option. So lower rib removal could be the only real option for how they wish to appear. Either way, I wont deny either option.
found an old susan post from 2007 that relates to this somewhat.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=24034.0 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=24034.0)
Quote from: Yasmine on January 16, 2014, 07:08:38 PM
Did anyone try Jamaican Peritols?
Google "chicken pills", sounds like a terrible idea.
Quote from: Thylacin on January 16, 2014, 08:44:34 PM
Google "chicken pills", sounds like a terrible idea.
Yeah Arsenic may not be such a good idea..
Perhaps Maca powder is a healthier and safer option for bigger butt and hips and breasts. Good for libido too. I think I will try it for a while.
Quote from: Dee on January 16, 2014, 12:52:40 PM
What Nicolette has already said a couple times. Hip abductor exercises, squats, leg presses. Also other exercises to tone your midsection can help (sit-ups, waist rotators, etc).
I'm on my phone so i can't really post links, but there's a YouTube video of feminizing exercises I've seen around here several times.
Do you mean this video?
http://youtu.be/8udQ-h4Y4BY
Yes! That's the one!
I'm 34-25-34 at my fittest, both before and after transition, and I tend to collect fat on my boobs and belly. Right now I'm probably something like a 34B-27-34, which I'm fine with. The plastic surgery industry has a lot of incentive for making us feel insecure about our bodies.
I really encourage everyone to think carefully before considering plastic surgery. Who are you doing it for and why?
Quote from: mandonlym on February 26, 2014, 04:58:25 PM
I really encourage everyone to think carefully before considering plastic surgery. Who are you doing it for and why?
So much this. Women are constantly bombarded with pictures showing what we should look like and what is to be desireable. The effects are often detrimental to our self esteem. Add in a trans history and you have the perfect formula for body dysphoria.
I know I have regretted certain procedures (certainly not srs) but often times we bring ourselves to do things based on the opinion of others. This is not only limited to surgery but includes the money we spend on vanities, the damage done by crash diets, and the insatiable appetite for empty luxuries.
It depends on the individuals body type and genetics. My body hasn't changed in the 4 months I've been on hormones aside from my "pre hrt "man boobs" getting bigger and rounding out.
I'm 34-26-34, not sure what it was before hormones but I was a lot bulkier. I think it takes years on hormones for the body to have a feminine shape and curves.
Quote from: Jodi.LP on March 16, 2014, 06:36:30 PM
It depends on the individuals body type and genetics. My body hasn't changed in the 4 months I've been on hormones aside from my "pre hrt "man boobs" getting bigger and rounding out.
4 months is not nearly enough time on hrt for the body to fully change. For most of us it takes at least 2 years sometimes more. Oh and one more thing: man boobs that have gotten bigger and have rounded out are no longer man boobs -you have breasts girl, and they're not done yet. ;)
Quote from: amber1964 on January 15, 2014, 01:00:43 PM
If you are talking about real, significant curves its not possible without surgery. My body is as about as close as you can get. So 36 inch chest, 26 inch waist but only 30 inch hips. What you are looking at is 12 inch (or more) differences so more like 36-24-36 or 36-22-36. Hard for someone born female bodied, impossible for a male body. To get close, you need to have fortunate genetics, really good HRT and starve yourself well below anything like a normal weight.
I don't want to offend you, but you are talking like every genetically male has the same Body type ??? I have a very curvy shape. Bust= 34 (32C), Waist= 24, Hips= 36. I started with hrt in my early Teens. But my good friend is a (T)Woman (who i met recently in a transgender Support Group) and she started hrt in her late Teens. And Girl i can tell you, she got some ass crazy hips ;) And she's not fat or anything. Her BONES literally widened!!! I asked a few doctors about that and they assured me that your hip bones can widen till your mid twenties. The only difference between a early teen transitioner(like me) and a late teen transitioner is for example the face(not always!), the wider ribcage/shoulders(genetics play a role too) and Hands/Feet. Those things will not change but your hips can widen ;)
And btw the hip measurement is not crucial, but your proportions are! YOU can have a hip circumference of 40 Inch but they will still look narrow when you have wide manly shoulders!
We should remember that even beautiful Hollywood types wear "spanks" that sucks everyting in and helps redistribute it. Also, specialty garments can add to hips, tush, and cleavage.
Quote from: beren_ts on March 17, 2014, 08:45:06 AM
I don't want to offend you, but you are talking like every genetically male has the same Body type ??? I have a very curvy shape. Bust= 34 (32C), Waist= 24, Hips= 36. I started with hrt in my early Teens. But my good friend is a (T)Woman (who i met recently in a transgender Support Group) and she started hrt in her late Teens. And Girl i can tell you, she got some ass crazy hips ;) And she's not fat or anything. Her BONES literally widened!!! I asked a few doctors about that and they assured me that your hip bones can widen till your mid twenties. The only difference between a early teen transitioner(like me) and a late teen transitioner is for example the face(not always!), the wider ribcage/shoulders(genetics play a role too) and Hands/Feet. Those things will not change but your hips can widen ;)
And btw the hip measurement is not crucial, but your proportions are! YOU can have a hip circumference of 40 Inch but they will still look narrow when you have wide manly shoulders!
Beren let's also not forget that some cis women are built just as you describe (the opposite of "curvy" with no hips and wide shoulder proportion) ;)
Quote from: beren_ts on March 17, 2014, 08:45:06 AM
I don't want to offend you, but you are talking like every genetically male has the same Body type ??? I have a very curvy shape. Bust= 34 (32C), Waist= 24, Hips= 36. I started with hrt in my early Teens. But my good friend is a (T)Woman (who i met recently in a transgender Support Group) and she started hrt in her late Teens. And Girl i can tell you, she got some ass crazy hips ;) And she's not fat or anything. Her BONES literally widened!!! I asked a few doctors about that and they assured me that your hip bones can widen till your mid twenties. The only difference between a early teen transitioner(like me) and a late teen transitioner is for example the face(not always!), the wider ribcage/shoulders(genetics play a role too) and Hands/Feet. Those things will not change but your hips can widen ;)
And btw the hip measurement is not crucial, but your proportions are! YOU can have a hip circumference of 40 Inch but they will still look narrow when you have wide manly shoulders!
I know what you mean. :laugh: Personally, I think losing weight sounds counterproductive eg. 30" hips, especially if shoulders don't shrink proportionally. I started before 25, so I may have got a little hip widening. Recently, my male business partner thought I had the hottest body in a room of cis-women, which made me smile. I can show off more because of srs. Meow..
I think the genetics play important role, but on the other hand, everything, that is not a bone, can be altered in some degree by the hormones... For an example, now I have the slimmest waist since I grew up and even and year ago it looked close to impossible for me to have the measurments I have now, and I am transitioning only for 13 months and I am 33 years old... So mine from year ago and now are as following:
Bust: 94 cm (37") / 103 cm (41")
Underbust: 85 cm (33") / 80 cm (31")
Waist: 83 cm (32") / 70 cm (28")
Hips: 93 cm (36") / 99 cm (39")
Thigh: 55 cm (22") / 58 cm (23")
Height: 181 cm (5'11,5") / 180 cm (5'11")
Weight: 67 kg (148 lbs) / 76 kg (168 lbs)
As you can see, I am much heavier now, but have slimmer waist and more feminine proportions. I am pretty sure, that if I succeed to drop at least the weight I gained due to HRT, my waist will be at 2 or more inches slimmer, so I think it is a good idea if one just be patient and wait the hormones to do their work and then, if not satisfied, to think about a surgery... Just my five cents :)
I like to think that it is possible to achieves cis-female style curves with the right genetics and luck. I haven't started HRT yet, but I am lucky that my body shape is already leaning towards female if a bit tall (5'9")
I haven't really started exercising yet so I don't know if that will help or make it worse.
Currently I am 38/25.5/35.5 measured using a string and straight edge so not the most accurate measurements ever.
I have never been able to retain much fat as a male but I hear that may be easier on HRT...As I am still 23 there may be a chance that I actually get at least some curves, and if I do then I guess the answer to your original question will be yes.
Good luck in the genetic lottery!
Quote from: beren_ts on March 17, 2014, 08:45:06 AM
I don't want to offend you, but you are talking like every genetically male has the same Body type ??? I have a very curvy shape. Bust= 34 (32C), Waist= 24, Hips= 36. I started with hrt in my early Teens. But my good friend is a (T)Woman (who i met recently in a transgender Support Group) and she started hrt in her late Teens. And Girl i can tell you, she got some ass crazy hips ;) And she's not fat or anything. Her BONES literally widened!!! I asked a few doctors about that and they assured me that your hip bones can widen till your mid twenties. The only difference between a early teen transitioner(like me) and a late teen transitioner is for example the face(not always!), the wider ribcage/shoulders(genetics play a role too) and Hands/Feet. Those things will not change but your hips can widen ;)
And btw the hip measurement is not crucial, but your proportions are! YOU can have a hip circumference of 40 Inch but they will still look narrow when you have wide manly shoulders!
YEP! In the end its about proportions!! I feel like I caught myself just at the right time to start hrt, which was when I was 21...My body was still very fem like prehrt