While I was participating in biblical study, I came across Psalms 139:16 which talked about being formed in the womb by God.
Psalms 139:16 (KJV) : "Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."
I have to admit, this scripture actually threw me for a loop for concerning my transgender identity for about an hour as it made me think of those who would use that scripture to say "see, God made you a woman so you need to stay as a woman", or something along the lines of that. It seems like convincing logic looking at that scripture. However, I started to think about when Jesus healed the blind man, so I went back and searched the scriptures about that, and part of it stuck out to me.
John 9: 1-7 (KJV)
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
The bolded part caught my attention. It got me thinking, "well, if God allowed this man to be blind at birth so His works could be manifested in him, then is it possible for a me to be born transgender (because I view it as a birth defect) in order for God to do the same for me?", and not only me, but other transgender individuals, however He decides to manifest His works in them.
The thought was quite shocking to me as I never really considered the possibility of this before.
So here are my questions to all believers here: What do you think? Do you feel that God made you transgender for a purpose? If so, what do you believe that purpose is? If you do not believe that God made you transgender for a reason, how would you reconcile that with Psalms 139:16?
Heavy duty question Malachite! I'm not sure I have all the answers to this one, but what I do know about the narrative in Genesis, whether it is allegorically written or what, makes sense and gives us a definitive answer to all of the things that are wrong in the world. There was a point where mankind abdicated their relationship with the Creator and acquiesced to the will of a malevolent persona thus taking on some of that being's ego-centric personality. This we refer to as The Fall. From that point on personal failure aka sin and death became mankind's inherited lot. This being the case then we may assume that creation has been tampered with and perhaps the very fact that we are different from our assigned bodies speaks to the reality of that event. In which case the creator may have intended you to be a male child and I may have been intended to be a female child, but Satan's intervention may be much like that of the environmental contaminants that disrupt genetic DNA that causes inter-sex and mosaicism in the fetus among other things that may also affect the brain.
Without going back to one of my Bibles just at the minute. The way I remember it continuing, was that the guy got kicked around by his church leaders and run out of town, so the guy went, found Jesus and the others, and joined with them, now able to see and work with them and for them. Pretty good purpose for his life I think.
Whoever and whatever I was created, it was to love and serve God / Jesus in this life, and to be with them in joy and glory in the next part of life. We are examples of Resurrection in having died to what the World had declared us to be and coming to the life born into us now able to see with eyes opened to the Truth of our being alive. Giving up lives bestowed on us by other humans and coming to the life created in us by God. When we see our new life for what it is and does by making us aware of God's presence in our core, we can better describe it than people not given our needs for life. All have life born in them, and even for them, the World mold them and creates an image for them. It may well be harder for them to see the need for death to the World, and personal need for re-birth in their creator than it is for us. We get to give them a hand.
awful lot of children born physically malformed means there is just as many likely to be born with malformed gender identits. that Keith Ablow guy isn't bright enough to understand that.
Quote from: Shantel on January 16, 2014, 12:43:50 PM
Heavy duty question Malachite! I'm not sure I have all the answers to this one, but what I do know about the narrative in Genesis, whether it is allegorically written or what, makes sense and gives us a definitive answer to all of the things that are wrong in the world. There was a point where mankind abdicated their relationship with the Creator and acquiesced to the will of a malevolent persona thus taking on some of that being's ego-centric personality. This we refer to as The Fall. From that point on personal failure aka sin and death became mankind's inherited lot. This being the case then we may assume that creation has been tampered with and perhaps the very fact that we are different from our assigned bodies speaks to the reality of that event. In which case the creator may have intended you to be a male child and I may have been intended to be a female child, but Satan's intervention may be much like that of the environmental contaminants that disrupt genetic DNA that causes inter-sex and mosaicism in the fetus among other things that may also affect the brain.
You make a lot of great points, Shan! I have also thought about the possibility of how I was originally supposed to be a biological male, but because of the sin in the world, I just happen to get a female body with a male mind instead. However, I do believe that what the enemy has intended for evil, God can use for good. :)
Quote from: Vicky on January 16, 2014, 11:49:19 PM
Without going back to one of my Bibles just at the minute. The way I remember it continuing, was that the guy got kicked around by his church leaders and run out of town, so the guy went, found Jesus and the others, and joined with them, now able to see and work with them and for them. Pretty good purpose for his life I think.
Whoever and whatever I was created, it was to love and serve God / Jesus in this life, and to be with them in joy and glory in the next part of life. We are examples of Resurrection in having died to what the World had declared us to be and coming to the life born into us now able to see with eyes opened to the Truth of our being alive. Giving up lives bestowed on us by other humans and coming to the life created in us by God. When we see our new life for what it is and does by making us aware of God's presence in our core, we can better describe it than people not given our needs for life. All have life born in them, and even for them, the World mold them and creates an image for them. It may well be harder for them to see the need for death to the World, and personal need for re-birth in their creator than it is for us. We get to give them a hand.
That's a good way of looking at it and it makes me think of Galatians 3:28 where there's neither male or female since we are all one in Christ Jesus
Quote from: Malachite on January 16, 2014, 12:18:47 PM
Psalms 139:16 (KJV) : "Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."
<snip>
So here are my questions to all believers here: What do you think? Do you feel that God made you transgender for a purpose? If so, what do you believe that purpose is? If you do not believe that God made you transgender for a reason, how would you reconcile that with Psalms 139:16?
Here's that same passage from Psalms in the New Revised Standard Version: "
Your eyes beheld my unformed substance. In your book were written all the days that were formed for me when none of them as yet existed."
So if I take the KJV or the NRSV I come to the same conclusion: I am as GOD made me, and GOD made me trans. What purpose could that be? I don't believe in theodicy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy), so I reject the idea that being trans (and queer) is a test of my faith. It certainly has been a test, but I don't think that GOD is testing me. It's more like I am testing me.
If there is a purpose to me being trans, it would be for me to learn to live the Gifts of Advent (Hope, Peace, Joy, and Love) all year round. I would not have come to that realization if it weren't for all the growth and healing I experienced last year. And all of that growth and healing were direct results of my transition.
Quote from: Constance on January 17, 2014, 11:55:57 AM
Here's that same passage from Psalms in the New Revised Standard Version: "Your eyes beheld my unformed substance. In your book were written all the days that were formed for me when none of them as yet existed."
So if I take the KJV or the NRSV I come to the same conclusion: I am as GOD made me, and GOD made me trans. What purpose could that be? I don't believe in theodicy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy), so I reject the idea that being trans (and queer) is a test of my faith. It certainly has been a test, but I don't think that GOD is testing me. It's more like I am testing me.
If there is a purpose to me being trans, it would be for me to learn to live the Gifts of Advent (Hope, Peace, Joy, and Love) all year round. I would not have come to that realization if it weren't for all the growth and healing I experienced last year. And all of that growth and healing were direct results of my transition.
Theodicy is an attempt to undermine and gut the understanding of the problem of mankind's initial failure and God's response and answer through Jesus's death and resurrection, making any further belief just watered down religion! There is room for anyone who wishes to interpret things differently but the bottom line is a personal relationship with Christ that is based on a full understanding and acceptance of the Creator's intent and an acknowledgment that we have indeed failed perfection though not initially of our own volition.
I really hate the idea that God gives diseases or causes evil to happen. It is so against His nature, as shown in Scripture.
It would be like me beating my kids to teach them patience. Too many Christians have that kind of cruel God in mind. They barely understand His acceptance for themselves...so it's no wonder they can't accept and love others who are different.
I could answer all those questions and more, but I can't type my thoughts well or long. Over a phone call or in person is another matter.
Quote from: katiej on January 18, 2014, 12:04:28 AM
I really hate the idea that God gives diseases or causes evil to happen. It is so against His nature, as shown in Scripture.
It would be like me beating my kids to teach them patience. Too many Christians have that kind of cruel God in mind. They barely understand His acceptance for themselves...so it's no wonder they can't accept and love others who are different.
No I think that you misunderstand the entire picture, God has allowed humankind to have free will which includes allowing us to screw up and reap the harvest of our own bad decisions and those of the original human beings. So we are presented with choices in life none are ever perfect because behind choices lies motive which is always tainted, so we are faced with the choice of living a miserable life in a gender that disagrees with our brain or to make the appropriate changes and live a happier existence. God's not as concerned about externalities but is only really concerned about what kind of person we are in our hearts.
To expand on the motive of the human heart: We often see great endowments made by wealthy people and we are amazed by their generosity, we see all kinds of acts of random kindness and say how wonderful! Yet behind every act there is motive and there also lurks ulterior motives that are never as pure. A wealthy man may give millions upon millions to cure AIDs in Africa, he may feel that it's a hopeless situation and has sorrow for the thousands that die from it each year, his outward motive is wonderful, but then there are the ulterior motives, it is a charitable tax write off and he gets international recognition and applause as a wonderful human being, furthermore it brings more favorable international exposure to his product line. The point is that everything we do is couched in selfish motivation. This man's decision is better than investing his money in a research program to create new and better ways to wipe out indigenous populations of third world nations riddled with AIDS and all being viewed by other nations as useless consumers. There you have good, albeit tainted versus pure evil that men do.
That's a lot to take in concerning theodicy! While I can't say that I fully understand the concept, I do like the idea of being trans in order to spread the Gifts of Advent.
Quote from: katiej on January 18, 2014, 12:04:28 AM
I really hate the idea that God gives diseases or causes evil to happen. It is so against His nature, as shown in Scripture.
It would be like me beating my kids to teach them patience. Too many Christians have that kind of cruel God in mind. They barely understand His acceptance for themselves...so it's no wonder they can't accept and love others who are different.
Nooooo! The devil causes sickness God heals. I had a lazy eye out of this world when I was younger thoes things come from the devil. But know you can't even tell because I never had treatment for it, my mom prayed and it went away. I really don't think you understand.
I think its a test of my faith. All I have to do is stay in God
Malachite,
Stop and think about reproduction and such before and after Adam and Eve's transgression.
Before the fall Adam was formed from the dust of the ground perfect and in communion with God. The Lord God took one of his ribs and made a help meet for him and Adam called her Eve.
This perfect state of communion with God was a type and shadow or allegory of Jesus Christ and his church which he stated and Paul explained in Ephesians 5: 31,32 whereby through Christ we as Christians might be forgiven and made whole in the eyes of God. He would be our betrothed and we the church would be his bride after passing the judgment seat. He is returning for two wives per se, the Jew and Gentile church.
We see that Eve was made from a rib of Adam and through an allegory we see a type and shadow of how Jesus gave his life and created his bride (Eve) when the Roman soldier thrust a spear into his side. Just as Eve was created from the rib bone, in like manner in a spiritual sense we as his bride would be created when blood and water came forth. The blood signifying the life of the flesh and water the word and Spirit.
After the fall per se things changed and Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden and could no longer enter it. Childbirth was no longer as Adam and Eve were created perfect but sinful and and with infirmities because it was no longer "God making " people but the body reproducing as it was designed to do. That is why the "God made me" this or thus is not scripturally sound and we must repent when the Lord reveals his Son unto us. Because we are as David said shapen in iniquity and in sin our mothers conceived us.
Some might ask how we can be born in sin since we know neither right or wrong as babes but just eat, breathe, pee and poop.
To answer this we must remember that Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.
When Adam and Eve were created they were created knowing God. They communed with him.
When we are born we do not know God. As babes we have to learn from our parents. We do not come out of the womb knowing or believing God. We are carnal through reproduction instead of creation and therefor born in a sinful state.
Because we are born in a fallen sinful state we are born naturally subject to infirmity, affliction as well as the temptations and afflictions and infirmities the devil puts on us. Our natural state is subject to vanity and the devil also adds this unto us to keep us from believing the truth through confusion. He twists things to where every church preaches a different gospel and even doctors can not agree on a diagnosis many times.
Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me. He didn't say "ways" or "truths" or "lives" but singular. One Lord , one faith, one baptism, one God and Father who is above all (including Christ), through all and in you all. Since this was written unto the church it applies only to those who are a part of the church Jude described being the faith once handed down unto the saints whom John called the "elect lady" or chosen of God.
The purpose for being transgender. This could be a number of things having been birthed in a fallen state. The main thing is that you seek and love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength and all your mind and love your neighbor as your self. That you seek the Lord above all else whether his doctrine be easy or step on your toes per se. As written, unto the hungry soul every bitter herb is sweet.
I hope this helps clear the issue of he fall up a little for some.
May God bless.
I like Del's comments although the part about a rib is a bit assumed by many theologians but not entirely accurate. The scriptures indicate that God put Adam in a deep sleep and from his side He brought forth Eve. This would make a lot of sense and not be seen as ludicrous as a woman being made out of a rib bone and adds credence as to why born males have both an X & Y chromosome. God literally drew the female forth from Adam and it may just be that Adam in his original form was both male and female as the scriptures say that he was created perfect and in the image of God. We talk about whether God would be male or female, well in that you have a plausible answer.
Shantel,
Now look at this a little farther.
We know all prophecy is about Christ as it is written in Revelation the Spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus.
Using the rib bone fulfills the prophecies such as David saying ye are flash of my flesh and bone of my bone, ye are my brethren. The man leaving father and mother to cleave unto his wife that they being two might be one flesh. Or Christ in our hearts by faith or as Jeremiah prophesied a woman shall compass a man. We the woman or bride have Christ in us.
We also know scripture calls those dead in sins and unbelieving "dead while those who believe and put off the tabernacle as Peter put it are "asleep."
The Lord God caused a deep sleep to come upon Adam. Not dead in sins but putting off the tabernacle. The spiritual death came when he partook of the forbidden fruit.
In like manner the Lord God caused a "deep sleep" to come upon Jesus after he said "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." He passed from life unto life without dying. He slept. God caused it as it was God's word that commanded he die for our sins and Jesus even said "My Father hath given me a commandment." That commandment was that he would lay down his life and take it up again.
While he tasted death for every man he passed from life unto life. The body dead but the spirit remaining alive. Not the spiritual death of those whom do not believe or trample underfoot the blood of Christ and turn back to willful sin and abomination.
I hope this clarifies what I was saying a bit more.
May God bless.
Yes, the purpose is to further piss off my mom.
I appreciate your well thought-out replies, Del, and I do agree that purpose or not, the most important thing is to seek God first in everything. That's first and foremost.
I love psalm 139 and also Jesus's comments on Eunichs.
I believe when God knit me together in the womb He fully intended me to be born transexual. Part of His plan for total dependence on Him. I was also born alcoholic and am 28 years sober, for the same reason, to help others and be dependent on Him.
My mother took DES. Although controversial I believe it transitioned me in the first trimester. Since that could not have happened outside God's will, I am who He intended me to be.
I also do not see anything having to do with our DNA as being deformity. And Adam had to carry both gene sets so Eve could be made out of his rib.
Thank you for pointing that out as it is very rare for many to read and put together the word as a whole.many times we are born a certain way or deal with certain things,so that his work can be done through us.I used to not understand why I was born with a mental defect (disability) and in such a horid way but as I grew older,I said to myself 'i lack understanding when it comes to the world but my emotions and spirital understanding is amazing' and it was for that exact purpose.the same goes for my gender (I believe) my purpose in my birth body,was to gain a wisdom that very few ever gain.it allows me to reach both spectrums with wisdom.I know birth but also loss,love but also a firm hand.God is taking me around the world and the wisdom gained,will make me a great man and for his glory.This is the only purpose I need.also I like to see myself as blessed in regards to heavenly beings.angels are male and female,being both in order to give ANYTHING that's needed.an ebrace or to be stern,to be a rock or a breast and in knowing this,I will be everything and anything a person needs and with the experiences and wisdom,to help them find their way.
Quote from: Shantel on January 25, 2014, 09:43:24 AM
I like Del's comments although the part about a rib is a bit assumed by many theologians but not entirely accurate. The scriptures indicate that God put Adam in a deep sleep and from his side He brought forth Eve. This would make a lot of sense and not be seen as ludicrous as a woman being made out of a rib bone and adds credence as to why born males have both an X & Y chromosome. God literally drew the female forth from Adam and it may just be that Adam in his original form was both male and female as the scriptures say that he was created perfect and in the image of God. We talk about whether God would be male or female, well in that you have a plausible answer.
I wish to correct you on a few points if I may.God his self is neither male or female. But spirit alone.God did however create. Angels to be both genders so that they may protect,love and help ALL of man kind but you are close on a few points.if you think about it like this,God his self showed with eve what he is capable of.He pulled a female from within a male and she manafested to complete him.this can also be seen as being transsexual in a sense.two,much isn't know about his dna but we do know that they were the only two beings created and since adam had no mother,yes where did his female dna come from? Also the rib was picked by God because it is the only bone that rebuilds its self.when broken,it rarely needs binding because of its structure.it will literally regrow.its truelly amazing what God lays out before us so that we may see his purpose.
Quote from: Chaos on February 01, 2014, 07:44:55 AM
I wish to correct you on a few points if I may.God his self is neither male or female. But spirit alone.God did however create. Angels to be both genders so that they may protect,love and help ALL of man kind but you are close on a few points.if you think about it like this,God his self showed with eve what he is capable of.He pulled a female from within a male and she manafested to complete him.this can also be seen as being transsexual in a sense.two,much isn't know about his dna but we do know that they were the only two beings created and since adam had no mother,yes where did his female dna come from? Also the rib was picked by God because it is the only bone that rebuilds its self.when broken,it rarely needs binding because of its structure.it will literally regrow.its truelly amazing what God lays out before us so that we may see his purpose.
Yes, good thinking and I will stand corrected on the rib comment I made, I think you and Del are probably correct. I had not considered that about the properties of a rib and initially thought it was ludicrous, I was probably mistaken.
No worries my dear ^ :) I thought this was an interesting topic lol we all have a purpose.some from God and some not (meaning religiously thinking) but that's important is that we have one.The word of God is a complex place that requires your soul to have ears to hear.I encourage everyone to get lost in the word and allow him to show his purpose and truth for their lives.as a saying goes 'some are born that way and some are created but all know birth'
Quote from: Chaos on February 01, 2014, 03:44:18 PM
No worries my dear ^ :) I thought this was an interesting topic lol we all have a purpose.some from God and some not (meaning religiously thinking) but that's important is that we have one.The word of God is a complex place that requires your soul to have ears to hear.I encourage everyone to get lost in the word and allow him to show his purpose and truth for their lives.as a saying goes 'some are born that way and some are created but all know birth'
Excellent point well made!
Yes, God did make me transgender for a purpose. I have an internet radio program sharing
God's love to the TGLBQI community.
:)
Quote from: gennee on February 05, 2014, 12:15:48 PM
Yes, God did make me transgender for a purpose. I have an internet radio program sharing
God's love to the TGLBQI community.
:)
:eusa_clap:
This is the very reason antagonists of trans refuse to accept any born-that-way evidence... because of this very biblical verse. rather they will always say it is a matter of choice or something learned.
Then they are going to have one heck of a time with us when they figure out the physical side of it. There is a physical side, and God doesn't screw anything up, there is purpose within everything He does.
There is most definitely a physical transition in me, in the womb, and they keep finding out more stuff about that, as well as medically for those that were born TS without the DES factors.
I believe they don't understand the verse and they miss the whole content of the psalm, which is priceless stuff there.
It is obvious that a life of pain and loneliness and self conflict is not good fruit in the will of God. I look at the fruit of testosterone and it increases in me massive temptation, sin, bad fruit. On E, it is completely different and I can live Biblically without temptation driving me nuts. Nothing against it for our transmen and their wonderful insights on these topics, but it does not agree with me personally, I can't handle testosterone. I guess they can, and that is part of Gods design.
:)
Also those that hurt us, even if they think they are trying to help, are going to be extremely embarrassed and uncomfortable when they reach the throne of grace, and realize what they have inadvertantly or deliberately done. And then Jesus will heal both them and us and there will be peace and joy anyway in heaven. This world is the blink of an eye and we have a ticket out of here to paradise. :)
I so dislike legalism and rigidity, the misunderstanding of the heart of Christ, look how He reacted to the pharisees of the time. He wasn't very happy with them at all.
Quote from: Malachite on January 31, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
I appreciate your well thought-out replies, Del, and I do agree that purpose or not, the most important thing is to seek God first in everything. That's first and foremost.
Have you ever really thought about that part of your statement that I emboldened Malachite? Most cisgender people never really question anything about who they are, they are who and what they are and accept it. We on the other hand know something isn't right, that our mind or Spirit or Soul is out of synch with the physical parts of ourselves. This leads to questions, anger, depression and so on. What can we learn from a life of ease and luxury? Maybe life is supposed to be hard and difficult. Maybe being trans is a way of forcing us to question the mind, body and Soul. To feel different inside than what the physical body is outside forces us to see that there is so much more than physical perceptions. I do think there is a purpose for being transgender. For me it forces me to separate the Spiritual and physical aspects of myself and feel that there is more to me than just the physical body. For other's it may be different but there is no denying that there is a separation, conflict or unsychronization between our minds and bodies and that we are possibly way more than what humans seem to be physically. So if we look at our own Spirit first we are actually seeking God because I believe it is our Spirit that was created in the image of God and the body is just a vessel for this planet. I know it sounds crazy but it seems plausible? :-\
I've seen so many die before my eyes and even if one isn't religious it becomes plain to see that the life force that resided in that person's body has left and gone on elsewhere. The body is merely a cabinet and when it's been severely damaged or is falling apart due to age or sickness, then that life force moves out and on to exist in a different place. Perhaps we become the perfection of what we were intended to be in another dimension beyond the confines of time and space.
Quote from: Shantel on March 11, 2014, 09:18:41 AM
I've seen so many die before my eyes and even if one isn't religious it becomes plain to see that the life force that resided in that person's body has left and gone on elsewhere. The body is merely a cabinet and when it's been severely damaged or is falling apart due to age or sickness, then that life force moves out and on to exist in a different place. Perhaps we become the perfection of what we were intended to be in another dimension beyond the confines of time and space.
Me too. For me its a weird feeling. Could just be my mind though and thinking how easy it is to go from being a living breathing human to nothing more than a bag of meat and bones. But I really don't think so though. It's the eyes for me. I have seen people with dialated eyes and have seen people sleep with their eyes halfway open, just like a dead person, but it's not the same there is till something there. What does pure intelligent energy look like? Is it even possible to measure it? Do we even want to know?
Quote from: Malachite on January 17, 2014, 09:31:22 AM
That's a good way of looking at it and it makes me think of Galatians 3:28 where there's neither male or female since we are all one in Christ Jesus
I don't interpret that scripture in that way at all. They were strictly binary back then, I believe, so the writer did not say that a person was neither male or female, but was rather addressing everyone, and each person as part of the body of Christ was either male or female.
This is a great question and one that I would like to respond too. My particular view point on this is that of the soul searcher. This is to say that as long as your soul being is what you believe you are, than you are what you are. So for me being male to female, it would make sense that if my soul is female, then I must certainly be female. Thus allowing the physical body modification process to just be a medical alignment process that I must go through. Just as any individual who has depression would take meds I will take meds to help fix the overwhelming issue that is effecting my soul on an emotional level. God gave birth to life if you will. My belief is that he gave birth to our souls. Our physical body's are not nearly as important as the inner self. And as transgender people we understand this very well. Because we search for ourselves and wish to be authentic with the world about who we really are more than anything. Thus, if you truly feel as tho you are something, you must be it.
Quote from: Jess42 on March 11, 2014, 07:33:20 AM
Have you ever really thought about that part of your statement that I emboldened Malachite? Most cisgender people never really question anything about who they are, they are who and what they are and accept it. We on the other hand know something isn't right, that our mind or Spirit or Soul is out of synch with the physical parts of ourselves. This leads to questions, anger, depression and so on. What can we learn from a life of ease and luxury? Maybe life is supposed to be hard and difficult. Maybe being trans is a way of forcing us to question the mind, body and Soul. To feel different inside than what the physical body is outside forces us to see that there is so much more than physical perceptions. I do think there is a purpose for being transgender. For me it forces me to separate the Spiritual and physical aspects of myself and feel that there is more to me than just the physical body. For other's it may be different but there is no denying that there is a separation, conflict or unsychronization between our minds and bodies and that we are possibly way more than what humans seem to be physically. So if we look at our own Spirit first we are actually seeking God because I believe it is our Spirit that was created in the image of God and the body is just a vessel for this planet. I know it sounds crazy but it seems plausible? :-\
Intresting answer. I have thought about the bolded statement because as far as my identity is concerned, I'm a Christian first and transgender second so naturally I'd try to seek God and the Bible first to see of both of them can be reconciled and luckily for me, I feel that they are. :)
Quote from: thevaliantx on March 16, 2014, 01:58:43 PM
I don't interpret that scripture in that way at all. They were strictly binary back then, I believe, so the writer did not say that a person was neither male or female, but was rather addressing everyone, and each person as part of the body of Christ was either male or female.
I interpret that scripture in a similar way.
Quote from: Rachel@Work on March 16, 2014, 07:19:29 PM
This is a great question and one that I would like to respond too. My particular view point on this is that of the soul searcher. This is to say that as long as your soul being is what you believe you are, than you are what you are. So for me being male to female, it would make sense that if my soul is female, then I must certainly be female. Thus allowing the physical body modification process to just be a medical alignment process that I must go through. Just as any individual who has depression would take meds I will take meds to help fix the overwhelming issue that is effecting my soul on an emotional level. God gave birth to life if you will. My belief is that he gave birth to our souls. Our physical body's are not nearly as important as the inner self. And as transgender people we understand this very well. Because we search for ourselves and wish to be authentic with the world about who we really are more than anything. Thus, if you truly feel as tho you are something, you must be it.
Nice answer and I agree with a lot of it. I view my transgenderness as a birth defect. I believe my soul to be male so I want to line my body up with it as much as I can.
Rather than birth defect I prefer to see it as a birth anomoly. Defect is negative. I don't want to label how I was made as a defect. Even though it requires work, still not a defect, just a planned scenario from above, as the psalmist said, to live out Gods plan including our transition, and motivate us to search the thoughts and heart of God. Others are helped by this. Some are hurt and we have the challenge of bringing that to God too. But had I not been born trans, what kind of person would I have become? Intolerant, not needing God, selfish? Impossible to know. But there is good fruit from this and I wish to bring to the harvest.
I used to say birth defect but now I don't think so, I only use that term for self protection from those who do not understand things with us much.
Good thread.
Birth anomaly. I like it.
Quote from: Malachite on March 17, 2014, 04:27:03 PM
Intresting answer. I have thought about the bolded statement because as far as my identity is concerned, I'm a Christian first and transgender second so naturally I'd try to seek God and the Bible first to see of both of them can be reconciled and luckily for me, I feel that they are. :)
See Malachite? For me it was the other way around. Being trans led me to a lot of questioning and the answers that I would usually get, I wasn't very satisfied with. Then I started to understand that the body is physical and that we do have a Spirit and that Spirit can be different from the body it inhabits. For whatever reason being trans led me to a greater belief in God. Although I ain't Christian in the accepted views of Christianity, mainly because I believe in reincarnation, I do believe that Christ was a great teacher and that the Spirit of Christ is much more advanced than man's. I do believe in the return of Christ but again it's not the return that is usually accepted by Christian churches. But we are all different but I do believe that everything that happens, happens for a reason and that reason is to advance our Spirituality more toward God.
Some people say there is no God and other's say that they believe thus and so, or that I believe this way and go to this church, while you believe that way and attend that congregation. When Christ met the Samaritan woman at the well she said, "You Jews worship at the temple, but we worship over on that mountain!" same old argument isn't it, I believe this way and you believe that way? Christ said in essence, "If you knew who was standing here before you all of that would seem meaningless, because the day is coming when mankind will not worship in specific places or in buildings made by human hands, but will worship in spirit and in truth" (this is a paraphrase of that conversation as I understand it)
Later he said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me!"
This is the reason I am not religious but spiritual instead because of having accepted Christ on His terms not on my own. I believe in spirit and in truth rather than sit, kneel or bow prostrate on the floor in a building or specific place each week or beat myself with chains because that is simply practicing religion trying to reach God on man's terms. When in reality God reached down instead to man coming into the world as Christ who then willingly bled and died on the cross for a purpose and as a sign. At that moment the sky went black and a bolt of lightening cut the temple veil that separated the Holy of Holies from the congregation from top to bottom, it was made of heavily woven materials. This was to signify that God would no longer be meeting mankind on man's terms and in buildings made of human hands, but would come in spirit and indwell him as each man's heart is open to him. Christ said, "Behold I stand at the door and knock, and whoever opens I will come in and sup with him and he with Me." He is clearly alluding to the Passover in Egypt when the blood of a lamb without blemish was sacrificed and the frame of each Hebrew doorway was marked by the blood and that family was passed over by the spirit of death but the first born in each house not so marked died that night. When we meet Christ on His terms and not on our own, He marks the entryway to our own hearts, His spirit then abides within each of us and we are positionally passed over by an unhappy fate in the next life. Not my rules, not my plan, God's plan that we can either accept or reject.
Shantel, that is absolutely beautiful!
Is there anything more beautiful than God's love for us?
Quote from: thevaliantx on March 18, 2014, 11:13:24 AM
Shantel, that is absolutely beautiful!
Is there anything more beautiful than God's love for us?
Yes, God's unconditional love for us whether we go to church or not, whether we a LGBT or cis, that we can mess up and be forgiven and that we have the Freewill to make our own mistakes and choices. Not to mention that we were created in that same Devine image.
I can not answer how God is using this is someone else's life. I can only answer as far as I know today. God never promised that He would tell us the WHY's in this life. Job never got an answer from God as to why. Often times the disciples did not get the answer to the question they asked.
As Malichite was given this passage so have I.
John 9
9 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3 "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
What is NOT stated in that passage is the HOW the works of God might be displayed.
Going on the next part is that this has caused me to grow closer to Him. Without Him I would have been long gone by now. He has given me the strength to handle it. He has shown me through this He has made me far stronger then I ever thought I was or ever could be.
This also is one of His promises and this has been in spades
Romans 8
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God.
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
He has also shown me that there is a matter that I struggle with badly and that's the trust issue. And the question I keep getting through my mind is "Do you trust me with this even though you do not know where this is leading to?" Do I trust Him enough for the BEST answer for me even though I may not think it's the best thing for me.
There is another purpose that is less about me and it's about others. Tough lesson but one that we need to learn and that is being able to love others as Christ has loved us. And that goes into being able to forgive others even when we are being mistreated.
Still along ways to go....
Quote from: Satinjoy on March 17, 2014, 07:56:25 PM
Rather than birth defect I prefer to see it as a birth anomoly. Defect is negative. I don't want to label how I was made as a defect. Even though it requires work, still not a defect, just a planned scenario from above, as the psalmist said, to live out Gods plan including our transition, and motivate us to search the thoughts and heart of God. Others are helped by this. Some are hurt and we have the challenge of bringing that to God too. But had I not been born trans, what kind of person would I have become? Intolerant, not needing God, selfish? Impossible to know. But there is good fruit from this and I wish to bring to the harvest.
I used to say birth defect but now I don't think so, I only use that term for self protection from those who do not understand things with us much.
Good thread.
Thanks. :)
I can see how a person wouldn't call it a birth defect. For myself, I personally don't see trans as a good thing. Like my bad eyesight, it's just one of those things that I have to deal with and try to correct. I will say however, that being transgender has definately helped me increase in my spirituality and become closer to God.
Quote from: Jess42 on March 18, 2014, 07:12:51 AM
See Malachite? For me it was the other way around. Being trans led me to a lot of questioning and the answers that I would usually get, I wasn't very satisfied with. Then I started to understand that the body is physical and that we do have a Spirit and that Spirit can be different from the body it inhabits. For whatever reason being trans led me to a greater belief in God. Although I ain't Christian in the accepted views of Christianity, mainly because I believe in reincarnation, I do believe that Christ was a great teacher and that the Spirit of Christ is much more advanced than man's. I do believe in the return of Christ but again it's not the return that is usually accepted by Christian churches. But we are all different but I do believe that everything that happens, happens for a reason and that reason is to advance our Spirituality more toward God.
I could see a case for that. As I told SatinJoy above, I feel that being trans has brought me closer to got, but I don't think there any reason for me to believe that I couldn't have been just as spiritual had I been born cis in my opinion.
Quote from: Shantel on March 18, 2014, 08:56:40 AM
Some people say there is no God and other's say that they believe thus and so, or that I believe this way and go to this church, while you believe that way and attend that congregation. When Christ met the Samaritan woman at the well she said, "You Jews worship at the temple, but we worship over on that mountain!" same old argument isn't it, I believe this way and you believe that way? Christ said in essence, "If you knew who was standing here before you all of that would seem meaningless, because the day is coming when mankind will not worship in specific places or in buildings made by human hands, but will worship in spirit and in truth" (this is a paraphrase of that conversation as I understand it)
Later he said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me!"
This is the reason I am not religious but spiritual instead because of having accepted Christ on His terms not on my own. I believe in spirit and in truth rather than sit, kneel or bow prostrate on the floor in a building or specific place each week or beat myself with chains because that is simply practicing religion trying to reach God on man's terms. When in reality God reached down instead to man coming into the world as Christ who then willingly bled and died on the cross for a purpose and as a sign. At that moment the sky went black and a bolt of lightening cut the temple veil that separated the Holy of Holies from the congregation from top to bottom, it was made of heavily woven materials. This was to signify that God would no longer be meeting mankind on man's terms and in buildings made of human hands, but would come in spirit and indwell him as each man's heart is open to him. Christ said, "Behold I stand at the door and knock, and whoever opens I will come in and sup with him and he with Me." He is clearly alluding to the Passover in Egypt when the blood of a lamb without blemish was sacrificed and the frame of each Hebrew doorway was marked by the blood and that family was passed over by the spirit of death but the first born in each house not so marked died that night. When we meet Christ on His terms and not on our own, He marks the entryway to our own hearts, His spirit then abides within each of us and we are positionally passed over by an unhappy fate in the next life. Not my rules, not my plan, God's plan that we can either accept or reject.
I agree with thevaliantx. That is beautiful, Shantel, and very on point! It does give me great comfort to know that if there is a purpose for me being transgende, but I never fullfill that purpose, that it will not affect my salvation whatsoever!
Quote from: Jess42 on March 18, 2014, 11:23:10 AM
Yes, God's unconditional love for us whether we go to church or not, whether we a LGBT or cis, that we can mess up and be forgiven and that we have the Freewill to make our own mistakes and choices. Not to mention that we were created in that same Devine image.
Amen!
Quote from: thevaliantx on March 18, 2014, 11:13:24 AM
Shantel, that is absolutely beautiful!
Is there anything more beautiful than God's love for us?
I don't think so. :)
Quote from: SarahM777 on March 18, 2014, 01:02:09 PM
I can not answer how God is using this is someone else's life. I can only answer as far as I know today. God never promised that He would tell us the WHY's in this life. Job never got an answer from God as to why. Often times the disciples did not get the answer to the question they asked.
As Malichite was given this passage so have I.
John 9
9 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3 "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
What is NOT stated in that passage is the HOW the works of God might be displayed.
Going on the next part is that this has caused me to grow closer to Him. Without Him I would have been long gone by now. He has given me the strength to handle it. He has shown me through this He has made me far stronger then I ever thought I was or ever could be.
This also is one of His promises and this has been in spades
Romans 8
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God.
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
He has also shown me that there is a matter that I struggle with badly and that's the trust issue. And the question I keep getting through my mind is "Do you trust me with this even though you do not know where this is leading to?" Do I trust Him enough for the BEST answer for me even though I may not think it's the best thing for me.
There is another purpose that is less about me and it's about others. Tough lesson but one that we need to learn and that is being able to love others as Christ has loved us. And that goes into being able to forgive others even when we are being mistreated.
Still along ways to go....
Hi Sarah, I'm glad to see that you have been grounded in the various purposes that the Lord has given you concerning your female identity, though it may not all be understandable. :) As for myself I do wonder exactly HOW the works of God may be manifested in me, a transgender man. From time to time I wonder is there a particular call for me to reach the trans community, as in reaching the lost (as we are all called to do), or edifying other trans (or even cis/non-conforming) brothers and sisters in Christ, perhaps on Youtube. I highly doubt so, but I do think about possibilities like that. Perhaps I'm trans to show certain cis Christians in the future that we have a place in the Kingdom too. I could go on and on. Who knows? Maybe there is no purpose for me being trans and this is just one more thing that I am. I may never figure it out. but it's interesting to think about from time to time.
Oh and my pastor gave me Romans 8:28 about a month ago as God laid it upon her heart to give me that scripture for some reason.
Quote from: Malachite on April 24, 2014, 10:18:29 PM
Thanks. :)
I could see a case for that. As I told SatinJoy above, I feel that being trans has brought me closer to got, but I don't think there any reason for me to believe that I couldn't have been just as spiritual had I been born cis in my opinion.
Yeah but Hon, that may be the only way that could have brought you closer to God.
For example you could have been cis and still brought you closer to God or more Spiritual? Ask Jimmy Swaggert. Ask any cis Rockstar. Pretty much ask pretty much any cis person and the answer will usually be if you are good you will go to heaven and if you are bad you sill go to hell and if you ask forgivness, forgiveness is given. In other words most cis are male or female and they see themslelves that way in heaven 'cause nobody goes to hell. Right. Well sweety we are living in hell. We see ourselves different from body and Spirit which causes a conflict within ourselves and allows us to see our spirits as different from our physical body which in turn separates us psychologically or spritually from our physical bodies.
In the small picture Malachite, being trans may seem like a curse but looking at the bigger picture it is a blessing in that we can feel, actually feel out of synche with our physical bodies and thus material world and acknowledge that the Spirit is separate from the body and that even though, in my case, I am physically a male but my Spirit feels female or when the time comes, can be comfortably male and female simultaneously. In the actual same image of The Creator.
Trans brought me to all of you. It allows me to be transparent and let you see into my soul. i hope you see Him in there somewhere, peaking out from the fear, generating warmth, love, compassion, and a ticket out of here if we will befriend Him, turn to Him, and trust Him, because He paid our debt, or karma if you wish, but paid it in full. That is the power of the cross and His love.
Purpose? I see thousands of them. Lives helped, loneliness ended, dependance created on relationship, searching scriptures and the mind and heart of God in prayer.... wonderful
Quote from: Jess42 on April 28, 2014, 04:29:05 PM
In the small picture Malachite, being trans may seem like a curse but looking at the bigger picture it is a blessing in that we can feel, actually feel out of synche with our physical bodies and thus material world and acknowledge that the Spirit is separate from the body and that even though, in my case, I am physically a male but my Spirit feels female or when the time comes, can be comfortably male and female simultaneously. In the actual same image of The Creator.
That's a unique way of looking at it. :)
Quote from: Satinjoy on April 28, 2014, 08:28:34 PM
Trans brought me to all of you. It allows me to be transparent and let you see into my soul. i hope you see Him in there somewhere, peaking out from the fear, generating warmth, love, compassion, and a ticket out of here if we will befriend Him, turn to Him, and trust Him, because He paid our debt, or karma if you wish, but paid it in full. That is the power of the cross and His love.
Purpose? I see thousands of them. Lives helped, loneliness ended, dependance created on relationship, searching scriptures and the mind and heart of God in prayer.... wonderful
I love your response, Satinjoy! :)
I am pretty sure that our situation in the womb is what tweaked the hormones and cell signaling to make us transgender. Under that assumption, our bodies and identities could be safely assumed to be as dictated by God as anything else you believe God created. Our existence makes more sense than the existence of sociopaths, movie stars, hallucinogens, music, or asthma. We're doing pretty good as far as our ability to belong in the grand scheme goes. If you swing religious, we are obviously created intentionally and loved, and we belong completely in this world.
Quote from: Malachite on May 12, 2014, 09:36:09 PM
That's a unique way of looking at it. :)
Yeah it truly is, I just haven't figured out if it is true or I am just some crazy chick that missed the hippy movement by 15 years. ;)
Truly though and a lot of people can't understand it or really comprehend that we are all truly brothers and sisters not just in a church way, but out lives or actually consciousnesses are all entertwined with one anothers. We all test one another's virtues without any conscious knowledge of even doing it. Things we say even on this sight may test someone's patience. Driving is a biggie, someone cuts me off I used to really get me POed, until I actually confronted someone over it, absolutely not in a violent way, but he didn't have a clue of what he did or how close he came to possibly killing both of us. Hopefully it caused him to be more careful down the line.
But, and this does sound a little insane, we are all in this crazy seemingly random occurances of misery, happiness, love, hate, seemingly unfair miracle we call life and our actions no matter how small it may seem or large have effects on others that we may not even know or even begin to comprehend.
And Like I said earlier, if I would have been born cis I may have never felt a difference between what is the physical body and the Spirit that is truly who I am and will continue to be long after the body turns back to minerals and other material from which it came.
Quote from: SarahM777 on March 18, 2014, 01:02:09 PM
I can not answer how God is using this is someone else's life. I can only answer as far as I know today. God never promised that He would tell us the WHY's in this life. Job never got an answer from God as to why. Often times the disciples did not get the answer to the question they asked.
We all walk in their shoes at times and we cry out why God? The only answer I have ever had is "My grace is sufficient!" and that alone is comfort enough for me.
Quote from: Shantel on May 13, 2014, 09:31:59 AM
We all walk in their shoes at times and we cry out why God? The only answer I have ever had is "My grace is sufficient!" and that alone is comfort enough for me.
The hardest part for me has been seeing others being able to go on,and knowing at this point of time there is nothing I can do about it. Dealing with frustration,and knowing that it would be so easy to become jealous of others that are able to go on,and knowing we are to rejoice with others. (Not always so easy to do so,when one seems to be stuck in certain places)
See right now I am still in a place that I can keep this at bay somewhat. As long as I still have my mom to take care of,I can keep the focus on her,but I know that time is coming to an end. (Don't know how long but it is coming,but I am being prepared for it) What doesn't help is that the only other family member that even talks to me is also dying. What scares me is that this will once again come in like a massive flood and will I be able to handle it all over again.
I don't follow religion of any sort (too much conflict amongst it all). I don't even consider myself anything spiritual, though sometimes my thoughts do go that way. God will take me as I am. I think all have doubt about God (and I'm not just talking about the Christian God, any God, any religion; I think all good gods are one and the same), even those that claim they don't, otherwise why would they have to constantly keep at trying to convince themselves of it. I don't believe God is going to be all that judgmental. For a time in my life I denied God (I wouldn't even have to if I didn't truly believe), but now I feel everything that happened to me was intended for my better good, planned out with some guidance along the way. And I have had too many close calls and coincidences for them not to be a helping hand from a higher power. So even though there's always been doubts in my mind about the existence of God, at the same time there's always been a part of me that feels, or possibly knows there is and I'm being looked after. Afterall, why do I go through such lengths to be as good a person as I can be, giving my all not to commit any wrongs that I know would be immoral even though I claim many times not to care about people, deep down I do. Anything that has happened in my life, even the worst has been to teach me (this includes being born of opposite mind and body, the conflict was necessary for my growth I think), and I can say, I've learned from it, and still am. I don't know where God is, nor what God is, how God came about, not for me to know, and while I do ponder those questions sometimes I don't dwell on them. But I have to believe in something, doesn't hurt to. And if in the end there is nothing, all I am is a rotting corpse, so be it, I won't know anyway. Yeah, God made me transsexual, otherwise I wouldn't be.
Excellent insights Meagan and I heartily concur as it has been that way in my life as well when I take a retrospective look backwards I can clearly see the steps in my path were arranged by a mystical power other than myself. On another interesting note as I mused about these things it occurred to me that there is a golden thread throughout every major belief system in our world and that is that this is not all there is and that there is a life beyond this one and that perhaps this is just a hyphen in eternity where we are becoming conscious of what we are to be at some point in the future.