Since I am a Christian I go to church every sunday and alot of the mothers their have babies, And sometimes this feeling of not nessicarily jealousy but more of a feeling of I should have had that. I mean I'm happy they don't have to deal with what I'm dealing with but, No matter how hard I try to not get down depressed it doesn't work. It hurts me to know that I can never be mommies little man, They even have bibs that say it, And I seen some of the male babies with them on, Not even just that but the fact that my mom dressed me as a girl when I was baby and in pink makes me mad. Or even getting told that there gonna be a handsome young fella or he's gonna be a heartbreaker when he gets older, I feel I'm missing something that was taken away from me, Yea.... I somewhat get a teen boyhood because I have three male friends and we boys, And that's all they see me as but being a really young boy, I never got to experience that, Or even growing into a man and my family saying he's grown into a handsome man without having to go through all this. Ill never here that, most guys do when they hit puberty as a bio male. I know ill never here that from my mother or any other family members. I love my mom, I am a mommas boy and knowing that she will never see me as her son is killing me on the inside. Theres know real way I can just quit thinking about any of this when Ive missed out on so much because of who I am and it sucks!!!! Sometimes I really just wanna end it, I don't even know what I'm here for anyways, I would have rather been just not born to be honest.... .
More of young men really. I also know a trans boy who is about 10, and I feel that would be a good state too. But I think that jealousy/envy are normal human feelings. If it were not being cis (I prefer this to biological, since well I am biological-- not being an android). But okay if it weren't that I might be envious of their money, status, looks, relationship, personality, etc etc.
And someone as young as you are, who has their whole life ahead of them, that could be a position that others might be envious of.
Let's just say, I acknowledge my feelings and move on. There isn't very much you can do about what you don't have. But I accept those feelings, because I don't think denying feelings works. Then I dont' spend a lot of time dwelling on it.
--Jay
I tend to think "this kid might be trans." I think about trans girls/women when I see babies and toddlers who are "boys."
I've done that too Nygel, but I have done as Brandon says and looked a boy child and wondered why I couldn't have been born as they are. I just choose not to dwell on it as it leads to a bad place.
QuoteI just choose not to dwell on it as it leads to a bad place.
This. Why dwell on something that can not be changed, no matter how much you think of it, or wonder about it, or cry about it. It is wasted energy.
You live too much in the past. Start embracing the present and future.
Quote from: Mr.X on January 20, 2014, 01:43:40 PM
This. Why dwell on something that can not be changed, no matter how much you think of it, or wonder about it, or cry about it. It is wasted energy.
You live too much in the past. Start embracing the present and future.
Yea it's not that easy. You act like you have never done it. You act I can just be happy knowing I'm stuck with what I have for know. Your always gonna have bad days that was one of them. Especially you don't know what I'm going through as far as support and such.
Quote from: Brandon on January 20, 2014, 02:00:18 PM
Yea it's not that easy. You act like you have never done it. You act I can just be happy knowing I'm stuck with what I have for know. Your always gonna have bad days that was one of them. Especially you don't know what I'm going through as far as support and such.
It's not that easy. But it is like a muscle. You have to work it. In time it becomes a LOT easier to let things go.
--Jay
I think it's a normal feeling to have. I get it with my younger brother sometimes, he's a handsome young man and sometimes it hurts that he can be that without all the things I'll have to go through. I deal with it by accepting I feel this (because feelings aren't wrong and I think it's understandable we feel this way sometimes) and
trying to move on from them. It isn't always easy to move on though and that's okay too I suppose after all I'm not superman I'm human. It does take practice. I try to look at the thing I'm changing or can change in the future but I understand that you might feel you can't change things right now. I also try to be thankfull for the things I do have and that helps sometimes.
Quote from: Brandon on January 19, 2014, 10:30:09 PM
Since I am a Christian I go to church every sunday and alot of the mothers their have babies, And sometimes this feeling of not nessicarily jealousy but more of a feeling of I should have had that. I mean I'm happy they don't have to deal with what I'm dealing with but, No matter how hard I try to not get down depressed it doesn't work. It hurts me to know that I can never be mommies little man, They even have bibs that say it, And I seen some of the male babies with them on, Not even just that but the fact that my mom dressed me as a girl when I was baby and in pink makes me mad. Or even getting told that there gonna be a handsome young fella or he's gonna be a heartbreaker when he gets older, I feel I'm missing something that was taken away from me, Yea.... I somewhat get a teen boyhood because I have three male friends and we boys, And that's all they see me as but being a really young boy, I never got to experience that, Or even growing into a man and my family saying he's grown into a handsome man without having to go through all this. Ill never here that, most guys do when they hit puberty as a bio male. I know ill never here that from my mother or any other family members. I love my mom, I am a mommas boy and knowing that she will never see me as her son is killing me on the inside. Theres know real way I can just quit thinking about any of this when Ive missed out on so much because of who I am and it sucks!!!! Sometimes I really just wanna end it, I don't even know what I'm here for anyways, I would have rather been just not born to be honest.... .
Yup, I feel this way all the time. I get envious because many of those baby boys will get to have the life I've always wanted. They will get to experience the joys and pleasures of having a natal penis while I will not. I would even go as far as to say that I never really had a childhood because of being trans. I was just a child growing up. If I can be honest too, I really wish that I was never born and I am deeply upset with my mother and father bringing me into this world.
Anyways, I can't change the fact that I'll never be able to have the experience of growing up as a little boy so I don't focus on it too much. I have too many other problems to deal with.
Quote from: Brandon on January 20, 2014, 02:00:18 PM
Yea it's not that easy. You act like you have never done it. You act I can just be happy knowing I'm stuck with what I have for know. Your always gonna have bad days that was one of them. Especially you don't know what I'm going through as far as support and such.
I don't think he's acting like that at all. Just stating that it's pointless to dwell on it. I'm sure most of us know how hard it is to learn to let go and not dwell on certain things. Even those who have worked on not dwelling on things that can't be changed have bad days.
Quote from: wheat thins are delicious on January 20, 2014, 04:16:12 PM
I don't think he's acting like that at all. Just stating that it's pointless to dwell on it. I'm sure most of us know how hard it is to learn to let go and not dwell on certain things. Even those who have worked on not dwelling on things that can't be changed have bad days.
Maybe it's how he worded it?
I'm envious of little kids, not babies, they don't know what's going on. To me I might as well be envious of a male dog than a baby. But where does that get me? No where except further down into the pit of dysphoria.
Change the things that can be changed, and learn to live with what can't be. It's not easy, but there's no other way to actually live your life, not just exist, but live. Dwelling on what could, or should, have been does nothing but cause harm.
There's a quote that I'm always reminded of when seeing young boys, "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." Yeah, not all of my childhood and upbringing was perfect, or right for me, but it's not too late to experience those things. With your own children, having a laugh with friends, or by watching other kids growing up. I had more of a childhood watching two kids briefly over less than 9 months than I did in my own life. That sounds creepy, but seeing the interaction between them and their father filled me with hope for when I was in his position, and the gaps I'd missed in my own life.
Guys I just asked a question, I already know its not good to dwell on things
I went through a period of envy, rage and depression related to the childhood that I didn't get to have. I know that my life would have been dramatically different if I had been born male and grown up as a boy.
That being said, I am learning to be ok with who I am becoming. I am not jealous of babies who were born male, or even little kids or teens these days. Years have given me a bit of perspective. Nowadays, I focus on what I can do to make my life better for me. I have a laser focus on beginning my transition and getting top surgery within the next 3 years. That's what keeps me going these days.
Once I am right with myself, I can work getting right with the world. I hope to find someone special to build a life with. I'd love to have a family of my own someday. Those things also give me a spark of hope to keep going.
Sometimes. I wish I could of lived my young childhood as a boy.. who I really was. But there's nothing I can do about it, and nothing good comes out of being envious or angry at someone because they have what you didn't have.
No, because what if they grow up and realize they are in the wrong body like me? I do wish the option to trade bodies or have my soul transported into a male body but I know it cant be done. I never look at it that way because it is not cis-people's faults nor is it anyone elses "fault" it is just something that happened and that I have to deal with.
Again I already know its not good to dwell on things you can' have. I don't thinl you guys are getting it
You guys are telling me stuff that I know already, But you guys act like these feelings don't exist, And I meant as a younger guy who's pre opt not when your already on T but before
Not at all. I've grown to just fine with my body. It's what I have to work with, and I am not getting another chance so I'm gonna enjoy life as much as I can. I work with toddlers every day, including potty training and diaper duty and it's never crossed my mind. They are just kids.
The only 'envy' I have for little kids is their energy. Seriously, if we could find a way to bottle that unbridled energy, joy and wonder kids have, the world would be an awesome place. I would get so much done everyday.
IMO, it's a wasted emotion because you don't know that kid or the life they'll have. They could have body dysphoria of their own in the future. They could even be trans themselves. I better understand a jealousy of adult males (though still find it a waste to dwell) than I do children because those children haven't lived yet and to be jealous of them is extremely premature. The way I see it, what if a transwoman was jealous of me as a baby? That's just a wasted emotion for them because I didn't want what I had and their jealousy was a waste because I effectively squandered the apparent "gift" I had of being born female.
I'm of the belief in life that you gotta change what you want changed and not dwell on what can't. To dwell on what can't be changed is to rob time and energy from what can be.
A different perspective if I may.
I work with people who are often at the end of life.
Very few have regrets, we have them for them.
I'm a little upset so please pardon me. I went to a patients funeral recently, her name was Kiki, she was a photojournalist, she died from a very aggressive breast cancer, she had a husband and two children who adored her. She took pics of herself at every stage of her treatment.
As she lost her hair, a trigger for women; curled up in a fetal position as we poisoned her again to try stopping the cancer and she was in pain. Her picture of me as Quack Cindy, ever hopeful always failing; that's me.
My patients always teach me something.
She taught me never to regret. Never be jealous. And we can never have what we want; no matter how much we deserve it
Sorry
Cindy: I am sorry for the loss of your patient. I lost a patient when I worked in a pharmacy. She had suffered through countless surgeries and in the end there was little modern medicine could do. She was a beautiful person, and the world is a darker place for her loss. Such is the nature of being human, but it does not make it easier. It's never easy to lose someone, and I know that words are paltry things when it comes to loss. I am very sorry for your loss and all I can offer you and her family is hugs from Osaka.
I think that acceptance is an important part of life in general. Even natal folks deal with anguish over their bodies. Two people very close to me suffer from body dysmorphia, one of whom is my partner. He has good days and bad, and at the end of the day he has grown to accept that he is who he is and that is his lot in life. Making peace and accepting is never easy, but it is important.
Nothing can take away that our bodies are not in line with our minds, but at least we have medicine that can help us. It may not be perfect but in the world like it is, it is much better than what our fore-mothers and fathers went through.
Of course, I'm an advocate of self acceptance. YMMV and I am no one to judge. I just encourage everyone to never feel envy, especially with children. I work with them every day, and my life is better for being with them every day.
Quote from: Brandon on January 20, 2014, 09:11:31 PM
Again I already know its not good to dwell on things you can' have. I don't thinl you guys are getting it
I get it Brandon, I'm pretty sure you think I don't. But it would be a very short thread if we just answered your question and not what we might think about it. Or what our experiences have been. So here's how it would go if we just answered your question:
"Yes a couple times. Bill"
"Yes. Stan"
"No. Phil"
"Sometimes, well occasionally maybe. Joseph"
"Only teen boys. Ned"
"Trans teens like you. Jay"
We'd never get the amazing response we got from Cindy.
Envy/jealousy are normal human feelings. It's what you do with it that matters.
--Jay
From what I've read, it's not unusual for trans people to feel robbed of their childhood. I was depressed about this same thing myself until I realized something: some of those kids who actually get to experience boyhood might not even want boyhood to begin with. Heck, maybe they'll discover they're trans when they're older and feel robbed of their girlhood, who knows? The point I'm trying to make is there's no way to tell, and what might have been really awesome for me might end up being hell for somebody else.
Either way, as hard as it is to not beat myself up over things I can't control, there came a point where I had to let it go and start focusing on the positives, otherwise I would have drove myself crazy. I still do have bad days sometimes (like today for instance) but I'd personally rather exist as a trans guy than not exist at all, and I'm glad I've made the progress I have with my transition. It's helped me learn who my real friends are, and it turns out there's a lot more out there than I thought there were.
I don't get envious of children or babies. I know that everyone will have feelings of "Oh, I wish something had been different." When I was a little kid, I remember wishing I had my dad's blue eyes. My cousin wished she was taller. My boyfriend wishes he had smaller shoulders. None of these things can be changed any more easily than gender. If anything, I'm envious of the trans teens who are getting to transition so young when they'll have a jump start on their transition and don't end up like some of us who are transitioning while in the middle of careers or marriages.
Besides, some babies with penises will grow up to wish they had been born with a vagina.
Quote from: Zambie on January 21, 2014, 06:00:13 PM
From what I've read, it's not unusual for trans people to feel robbed of their childhood. I was depressed about this same thing myself until I realized something: some of those kids who actually get to experience boyhood might not even want boyhood to begin with. Heck, maybe they'll discover they're trans when they're older and feel robbed of their girlhood, who knows? The point I'm trying to make is there's no way to tell, and what might have been really awesome for me might end up being hell for somebody else.
Either way, as hard as it is to not beat myself up over things I can't control, there came a point where I had to let it go and start focusing on the positives, otherwise I would have drove myself crazy. I still do have bad days sometimes (like today for instance) but I'd personally rather exist as a trans guy than not exist at all, and I'm glad I've made the progress I have with my transition. It's helped me learn who my real friends are, and it turns out there's a lot more out there than I thought there were.
I'm pretty sure that not all of thoes babies will not end up that way
hmm, yes, but its not something that overwhelms me. I'm also thankful super that I don't have a brother.
Quote from: Brandon on January 24, 2014, 06:19:44 AM
I'm pretty sure that not all of thoes babies will not end up that way
Regardless, it doesn't get
you any further to be focussing on the ifs, buts, maybes and what is impossible.
Ironically, that sentence was a double negative and you ended up saying that more of those babies will have gender dysphoria than not. There's no way of telling what their lives will be like, its merely wanting a male body, which is what dyphoria is all about.
Quote from: lxndr on January 24, 2014, 02:01:09 PM
Regardless, it doesn't get you any further to be focussing on the ifs, buts, maybes and what is impossible.
Ironically, that sentence was a double negative and you ended up saying that more of those babies will have gender dysphoria than not. There's no way of telling what their lives will be like, its merely wanting a male body, which is what dyphoria is all about.
That's what I'm getting at, it's less about the ifs, ands or buts and more of a coping mechanism: reminding myself that others have struggles of their own helps me feel less defeated and alone when it comes to what my life has thrown at me. I'm not the first and only person to have gone through this, I won't be the last, and while I may not have had a chance to live as a young boy I still have a chance to enjoy my life as a young man. It's not always foolproof, but it works for me sometimes.
Quote from: Zambie on January 24, 2014, 04:27:56 PM
That's what I'm getting at, it's less about the ifs, ands or buts and more of a coping mechanism: reminding myself that others have struggles of their own helps me feel less defeated and alone when it comes to what my life has thrown at me. I'm not the first and only person to have gone through this, I won't be the last, and while I may not have had a chance to live as a young boy I still have a chance to enjoy my life as a young man. It's not always foolproof, but it works for me sometimes.
I already know this I'm not stupid......
Quote from: Brandon on January 24, 2014, 04:38:18 PM
I already know this I'm not stupid......
Brandon, I believe that Zambie was talking about himself. Unless someone makes it obvious that they are speaking directly to you, they are just talking about their own experience and how they handle it.
Well Some of it was refering to me I'm just saying I realize that its not good to focus on the negatives and what you don't have. But thoes feelings still exist is all I'm saying.
Quote from: Brandon on January 25, 2014, 02:17:28 PM
Well Some of it was refering to me I'm just saying I realize that its not good to focus on the negatives and what you don't have. But thoes feelings still exist is all I'm saying.
It's understandable Brandon. You are talking about real human feelings. You can't just wish them away. It MIGHT help (but maybe not) to listen to how others deal wtih these things). Or maybe you're just going to have to learn yourself-- or some combination. But I'm guessing every person alive has envy/jealousy to deal with. Hang in there buddy. :)
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on January 25, 2014, 02:35:18 PM
It's understandable Brandon. You are talking about real human feelings. You can't just wish them away. It MIGHT help (but maybe not) to listen to how others deal wtih these things). Or maybe you're just going to have to learn yourself-- or some combination. But I'm guessing every person alive has envy/jealousy to deal with. Hang in there buddy. :)
--Jay
Thank You
I used to(and sometimes I still do) feel envious of cis male kids, mainly because I mourn a bit for the childhood I couldn't have and my current state of existence. It happens. It's hard not to be jealous, because it's a natural feeling. However, I found that it just made me feel worse to dwell on those feelings. No one chooses how to be born, so I don't feel right having negative feelings towards a child because they got to be born (presumably) cis. If acknowledging that feeling helps, I'd say go for it. This place is for us to talk about our experiences and feelings safely, even if you can't do it in real life. So if you feel jealous, it's okay. Just realize that it's normal.
Quote from: aleon515 on January 20, 2014, 12:32:57 PM
More of young men really.
That's me as well. I would trade my cis-genderness(?) for youth. I feel like I would do so much better my 2nd time around. I learned so much the first time.
Quote from: Brandon on January 24, 2014, 04:38:18 PM
I already know this I'm not stupid......
You kind of jump to conclusions about what people are trying to communicate to you, don't you? I don't think anyone here was trying to attack you, and when I read over what was written that you had taken such offense to there was no indication any of it was directed at you or meant to be harmful to you (in fact, the only pronouns used were "I" and "me", indicating they were indeed referring to themselves and not you). They were communicating their feelings and experiences. Maybe you should take a minute to breathe and re-read things before getting in a huff. It'll be okay; I wouldn't lie to you.
That said, jealousy is a normal emotion, but if you let it control you it can be dangerous (I'm not addressing you specifically; I'm using the "you" as in the plural/talking-to-a-crowd-and-not-specifying-anyone "you," just so we're clear). It's healthy to acknowledge those feelings, but it's good to let them go and try to see the good of your situation. For instance, most transgender people know more about themselves than others because they had to question and search the depths of their person to figure out their identity, while cisgender people tend to take their identity for granted. People who are transgender also have powerful insight to the lives of the opposite gender (I don't say sex because as FTMs, we share sex and not gender with ciswomen) which can be quite the advantage to transition. I've lived a lot of my life being perceived as a woman, and still am because I haven't started any physical changes yet. So after transition, I will remember my experiences and be sure not to be a misogynistic jerk who thinks women just complain too much about how they're treated, should never get to choose what happens to their bodies, get paid just fine so shut up, deserve rape because they had the audacity to wear a skirt, or that feminine hygiene products are the most disgusting things ever and I would never get any for female friends or significant others because I'm a man and men don't touch "girl stuff"; an immature attitude all too common amongst most cismen who have never known anything beyond their own male privilege. I can use my male voice and presence to help empower women as a male ally to the women's rights movement. We live in a society where unfortunately people will usually only listen to men, so when men say that women deserve respect and dignity, they'll hear. I would have probably been just as blind to the problems women in our society face as cismen are had I not had this valuable (albeit buggered) life experience.
It's all about perspective, and we choose our perspectives.
I get what your saying brandon, I feel like that too sometimes, even to my little cousins, i think lucky bastards lol but then I play with them like I'm a boy and I become their favorite cousin, growing up I was a tomboy, My mom was pretty good at the fact i didn't like girl things, so i played with cars, army men, video games, so it was like I was growing up a boy until middle school when puberty hits, then it went downhill and its like wait i'm different then my guy friends now, so I tried to fit in, until recently when I realized I'm not happy and I want to be a guy, ->-bleeped-<- it
Quote from: Ryan55 on January 29, 2014, 01:49:35 PM
I get what your saying brandon, I feel like that too sometimes, even to my little cousins, i think lucky bastards lol but then I play with them like I'm a boy and I become their favorite cousin, growing up I was a tomboy, My mom was pretty good at the fact i didn't like girl things, so i played with cars, army men, video games, so it was like I was growing up a boy until middle school when puberty hits, then it went downhill and its like wait i'm different then my guy friends now, so I tried to fit in, until recently when I realized I'm not happy and I want to be a guy, <not allowed> it
Well I'm thankful that I do fit in, With my guy friends and that they see me as one, So I do get alittle bit of a teen boyhood
Babies disgust me, so I never feel any jealousy over them. Toddlers and older children I adore, but again - I've never felt any jealousy over them. I believe that means that I'm mature and able to comprehend that everyone, even young children, have problems in their lives and I just have my own set to deal with.
Quote from: Brandon on January 19, 2014, 10:30:09 PM
Since I am a Christian I go to church every sunday and alot of the mothers their have babies, And sometimes this feeling of not nessicarily jealousy but more of a feeling of I should have had that. I mean I'm happy they don't have to deal with what I'm dealing with but, No matter how hard I try to not get down depressed it doesn't work. It hurts me to know that I can never be mommies little man, They even have bibs that say it, And I seen some of the male babies with them on, Not even just that but the fact that my mom dressed me as a girl when I was baby and in pink makes me mad. Or even getting told that there gonna be a handsome young fella or he's gonna be a heartbreaker when he gets older, I feel I'm missing something that was taken away from me, Yea.... I somewhat get a teen boyhood because I have three male friends and we boys, And that's all they see me as but being a really young boy, I never got to experience that, Or even growing into a man and my family saying he's grown into a handsome man without having to go through all this. Ill never here that, most guys do when they hit puberty as a bio male. I know ill never here that from my mother or any other family members. I love my mom, I am a mommas boy and knowing that she will never see me as her son is killing me on the inside. Theres know real way I can just quit thinking about any of this when Ive missed out on so much because of who I am and it sucks!!!! Sometimes I really just wanna end it, I don't even know what I'm here for anyways, I would have rather been just not born to be honest.... .
I know exactly how you feel. I have a son on the way and I am completely envious of him and he's not even here yet. He gets to experience everything I didnt. Everything from learning to aim to actual puberty and just having the right anatomy. I pray he doesn't have to go through what Im going through. Raising him will be a real challenge for me because I cant just run away when Im feeling dysphoric or envious. I know eventually he will encounter his own problems in life like everyone else but its the simple fact that he'll have what I don't and theres NO way of getting it. Yea theres surgeries BUT FOR ME it doesn't compare to having it be biological.
I often catch myself watching the high school boys playing sports out around my apartment complex and wishing that I could have had that life growing up. I was never feminine at all, but I was never able to play sports with the other boys. I was always envious of that, but I realized that I did start my transition younger than some people, so I still have youth left in me (just not so much as to have been brought up as a male). I am not angry over being raised female though. It taught me a lot of valuable life lessons that I doubt I would have learned had I been raised male. It's made me the person I am today, and I think that's a pretty good thing.