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Community Conversation => Transgender talk => Non-Transitioning and Detransitioning => Topic started by: confusedbilliam on January 20, 2014, 04:10:56 PM

Title: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: confusedbilliam on January 20, 2014, 04:10:56 PM
Perhaps this is partly due to the fact that I'm so completely pre-everything (I'm only out to approximately 5 people), but I find there are days where I will almost try and talk myself out of the idea that I'm trans. Sometimes I think that maybe I'm just hung up on girly clothes, or that I'm just weird. It's like, because I've taken so long to figure myself out, I must not really be trans. I'm sorta subjecting myself to the No True Scotsman fallacy - a person who's truly trans wouldn't take 25 years to sort it out.

I know it's all just silliness, but it still happens far more than I'd like. Does this happen to anyone else??
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: BunnyBee on January 20, 2014, 04:24:34 PM
Incongruence between your self and the person you present to the world takes a toll.  A cumulative toll.  The most dangerous thing you can do is talk yourself out of finding yourself and bringing your whole being in line with it.  It is such an easy trap though, because it's easier to not turn your life upside down, until it isn't anymore.

When you get to the state where wrecking everything in your life is easier than not doing that, you are in serious trouble.   Many of us did wait that long, and we will tell you we were lucky to survive it.  It is a path that leads only to regret.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: Sephirah on January 20, 2014, 04:26:35 PM
It happens to very, very many people, hon. You're not alone feeling like that.

The conscious mind is masterful at trying to explain away concepts and feelings it either hasn't fully come to terms with, doesn't understand, or perceives as a possible threat to an otherwise secure way of life. Whether those explanations have any accuracy to them is for the individual to ascertain, but that doesn't stop the mind from trying to do it. It likes things rationalised, compartmentalised, analysed. Denial takes on many forms, and some days can exert itself stronger than others.

*hugs*

As for taking a long time to figure yourself out. I wouldn't worry about that, hon. Many times life gets in the way of introspection. Distraction, deflection, ambition... you name it. Aside from who we are, we can also be what we want, too. It takes as long as it takes. And heck, I still don't think I've figured myself out in 34 years, lol. Not fully, at least. I reckon by the time that happens, there'll be nothing left for me to do. ;D
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: Sarah Rose on January 20, 2014, 04:28:17 PM
I've been in your position... I'm pre HRT and have only recently come out to my friends/family....

The only thing making me try and push this away is the crap my Mother keeps telling me, she's trying to convince me that I'm destroying my life and pointing out anything and everything she can to make me stop what I'm planning to do (HRT).

I know one thing for sure, every time I tried to push this away it came back harder, and stronger... The last time it came back (about two weeks ago) I was suicidal over it. I quickly lost that depression after coming out. It's hard that's for certain but only you'll know.

I'm going to keep pushing forward, even with the occasional doubt because I know that my only doubts are coming from my Mothers denial.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: BunnyBee on January 20, 2014, 04:55:02 PM
Quote from: Sephirah on January 20, 2014, 04:26:35 PM
It happens to very, very many people, hon. You're not alone feeling like that.

The conscious mind is masterful at trying to explain away concepts and feelings it either hasn't fully come to terms with, doesn't understand, or perceives as a possible threat to an otherwise secure way of life. Whether those explanations have any accuracy to them is for the individual to ascertain, but that doesn't stop the mind from trying to do it. It likes things rationalised, compartmentalised, analysed. Denial takes on many forms, and some days can exert itself stronger than others.

*hugs*

As for taking a long time to figure yourself out. I wouldn't worry about that, hon. Many times life gets in the way of introspection. Distraction, deflection, ambition... you name it. Aside from who we are, we can also be what we want, too. It takes as long as it takes. And heck, I still don't think I've figured myself out in 34 years, lol. Not fully, at least. I reckon by the time that happens, there'll be nothing left for me to do. ;D

So true.

The rational compartmentalization we do is done in by our biases.  When denial is the easiest thing and confronting reality the hardest, there is a strong bias toward denial, so that is where our conscious mind wants to take us.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: JoanneB on January 20, 2014, 06:31:16 PM
Quote from: confusedbilliam on January 20, 2014, 04:10:56 PM
Perhaps this is partly due to the fact that I'm so completely pre-everything (I'm only out to approximately 5 people), but I find there are days where I will almost try and talk myself out of the idea that I'm trans. Sometimes I think that maybe I'm just hung up on girly clothes, or that I'm just weird. It's like, because I've taken so long to figure myself out, I must not really be trans. I'm sorta subjecting myself to the No True Scotsman fallacy - a person who's truly trans wouldn't take 25 years to sort it out.

I know it's all just silliness, but it still happens far more than I'd like. Does this happen to anyone else??
ONLY 25 years!!!!  I spent a good 50 years at it. Mostly denial but still I knew I was a trans-something or other. After a lot of selk work, going to a support group, plus some therapy for the ton of shame, guilt and other TG baggage I have no doubt I am not just a tad more than a CD but really a TS. Any sort of transitioning to full-time is where I do most of my talking out of. Still haven't seen a Need to go there.

Which begs the question... Just what do you mean by trans? Just TG or TV, or TS or GQ or....? It's a big umbrella made all the more confusing with an abbreviation like "trans"
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: Jamie D on January 21, 2014, 02:25:52 AM
Quote from: confusedbilliam on January 20, 2014, 04:10:56 PM
Perhaps this is partly due to the fact that I'm so completely pre-everything (I'm only out to approximately 5 people), but I find there are days where I will almost try and talk myself out of the idea that I'm trans. Sometimes I think that maybe I'm just hung up on girly clothes, or that I'm just weird. It's like, because I've taken so long to figure myself out, I must not really be trans. I'm sorta subjecting myself to the No True Scotsman fallacy - a person who's truly trans wouldn't take 25 years to sort it out.

I know it's all just silliness, but it still happens far more than I'd like. Does this happen to anyone else??

We have people in their 40's, 50's, 60's, and even 70's who are coming to realize what those disconcerting feelings have meant all these years.

You have to remember, prior to the "Information Age," with the internet and all, the information around today was barely accessible.   I saw a psychiatrist in college for, in retrospect, what I now recognize as gender dysphoria.  The diagnosis I got then (late 1970s) was that I was bisexual but otherwise perfectly normal!  (And we all know that is a crock!!)

And there were plenty of other signs as I found ways to try and cope with it - like body shaving, female role-playing, etc.  And as Jen stated above, I was a master "compartmentalizer."  I had mental and emotional compartments for various part of my life.

So don't feel bad that your reckoning is just now coming.  It's okay.
Title: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: RobinGee on January 21, 2014, 07:10:35 AM
I chose my new nickname over this issue.  I had talked myself out of it19 years ago.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: Jessica Merriman on January 21, 2014, 07:57:50 AM
47 years here baby! All of that time in a mental hell, constantly at war with myself instead of just accepting it and moving forward. I went Full Time last week and now have a peace I have never known. No more guilt, repression, depression or constant nagging in my head. My body is now relaxed and feeling normal for the first time in my life. A word of warning, if you have these feelings this strong now they only get overpowering the longer you try to ignore them. Dysphoria never goes away, it just gets stronger and saps more life out of you every day. Do yourself a big favor and face this. Find a good therapist an see what they say about it. You do have to be completely honest with them or therapy doesn't work. It is hard to tell people your darkest secrets, but we have all done it, survived and thrived. :)
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: nether on January 23, 2014, 02:16:54 AM
I understand what you are saying and it sucks. Try to picture yourself in an ideal life. Are you happy without transitioning? I'm pre-everything as well and lemme tell you, time is just flying by. There are days where I don't think about being a woman at all. Other days it consumes me entirely. One thing that I've noticed (and it may be different for you) is that this feeling, yearning, has not gone away or faded one bit. It has only gotten stronger. I think as time goes on, less things in life are there to distract you. This eventually leaves you with nothing but yourself if you ever hit a rock bottom. I think that at this point, you either sink or swim and a lot of people just can't take it. It becomes a lot easier to just go out with a bang than to turn your whole life upside down in order to make you happy. So, before you hit that point, you should ask yourself if you will be happy living with what you have now. You owe it to yourself to be happy. Not to the other people around you.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: FilaFord on January 25, 2014, 11:38:50 AM
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Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: Ashley Allison on January 26, 2014, 01:57:41 AM
Quote from: nether on January 23, 2014, 02:16:54 AM
I understand what you are saying and it sucks. Try to picture yourself in an ideal life. Are you happy without transitioning? I'm pre-everything as well and lemme tell you, time is just flying by. There are days where I don't think about being a woman at all. Other days it consumes me entirely. One thing that I've noticed (and it may be different for you) is that this feeling, yearning, has not gone away or faded one bit. It has only gotten stronger. I think as time goes on, less things in life are there to distract you. This eventually leaves you with nothing but yourself if you ever hit a rock bottom. I think that at this point, you either sink or swim and a lot of people just can't take it. It becomes a lot easier to just go out with a bang than to turn your whole life upside down in order to make you happy. So, before you hit that point, you should ask yourself if you will be happy living with what you have now. You owe it to yourself to be happy. Not to the other people around you.

Really love your post Nether :) Every year the dysphoria persists, at least in my experience...  There are days I barely feel it, and others where for the life of me I am revolted with another second of maleness and trembling ready to tell my parents.  The excuses that we have to wrestle with and whether they are true excuses or not.  That is a problem.  Five years ago, it was that I needed to prepare and settle what went wrong with my now ex-girlfriend, so I knew this dysphoria wasn't stemming from another problem.  3 years ago, it was how another relative came out as trans, and I didn't want to be another burden to my family; and, I got a dose of thinking I wasn't as "trans" as they were.  2 years ago, the excuse for not jumping the male ship was that I was applying to graduate school, and I would never got in if I appeared as I am inside.  Today, that excuse is how my overly conservative academic colleagues, family, friends would greatly look down on me, not to mention it would implode a great relationship I have with my girlfriend.

And ConfusedBilliam, I can empathize, as I am around your age and it looks like we have similar experiences.  The questioning... There is a fair percentage of time that I wish I didn't question as much and just transitioned.  But thinking of this only arises more questions that halt any form of progress I have, in either direction; it is great circular logic.   
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: Ms Grace on January 26, 2014, 02:08:50 AM
Hey, I really understand what you're saying billiam :)
Heck, I almost grasped the prize and nearly fully transitioned at age 24... and then talked myself out of it, spending the next 22 years talking myself out of it until I literally broke under the stress of denial. It takes time to sort through your gender identity and presentation, don't feel the need to rush or force yourself to take any particular step until you feel comfortable it is what you want for yourself. That doesn't equate with giving up, it's just playing it safe. At the same time, if you are feeling pain because you aren't able to exist as the gender you feel yourself to be then it's important to investigate the possibilities.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: JordanBlue on January 26, 2014, 10:13:29 AM
Everything really depends on the severity of your dysphoria.  If your dysphoria still allows you to live your life in any kind of 'normal' manner, then none of this will matter to you.  If your dysphoria is bad enough that you can't bear to function another minute as you are, then whether or not to transition won't be a question for you.  You will transition. It's really as simple as that.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: big kim on January 26, 2014, 10:39:04 AM
I convinced my self I would be this monster,an ugly hairy beast with breasts condemned to live as an outcast.I was going to transition in 1979,I spent the next 10 years trying to blot it out with booze,speed and weed.It didn't work,I would probably be dead if I hadn't transitioned,not from suicide but from accident.Many times I set the stove on fire cooking when wasted or fell asleep in the bath.I once knocked a portable CD player in the bath as well
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: helen2010 on February 06, 2014, 09:22:38 PM
Quote from: JordanBlue on January 26, 2014, 12:05:07 PM
Let me ask a question here.   WHY would anyone want to 'de'-transition?
I'm looking at this from the perspective of why would anyone transition in the first place if it wasn't absolutely necessary?  I don't get it.
I think that there would be a number of folk who have partially or fully detransitioned who initially saw their initial transition option as singular i.e. presenting entirely and fully as the opposite gender to their birth state.   Following their full transition, with further life experience and insight they may have sensed or better  understood that their identity was better expressed somewhere between the gender binaries..  In these cases as awareness of themselves and of different options arose some detransitioning may have become compelling and attractive to them.   Alternatively some may have found that they moved rashly or prematurely before they had completely understood themselves, their options and the associated risks/benefits.   Again there may be others for whom the reality did not match the expectation perhaps because they were too optimistic, too rushed or they misjudged the collateral damage or impact on their life and well being, arising from a full transition.
What I am trying to say is that people have their own story, their own journey; circumstances and understanding do change.  Just because a full transition appeared to be the only option available to someone at a certain stage of their life does not mean that they should not review or revisit this irrespective of the massive energy, time, cost and emotion that they have already incurred in their full transition.  These are non trivial decisions and rarely made lightly.  I believe that they should be respected and supported as we can never know or fully appreciate the motivation and decisioning of another person without becoming that person.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: insideontheoutside on February 08, 2014, 02:11:20 PM
I find it fascinating that the majority of responders in this thread are female (correct me if I'm wrong about that) and many are making statements like, "Eventually, gender dysphoria will make you reach your breaking point." That's a scary thought. And yes, some statements are being tempered a bit with the "If I waited so long and did it, you can too" type of encouragement but I'm wondering if the scare tactics are painting the most accurate picture? Or perhaps I've got a different perspective because I'm coming it at through my own personal experiences of course, but also from the perspective of a male who's been awkwardly living in society as female for 40 years. I know there's plenty of people who identify as FTM who will say that they couldn't live another day as female (and having been under the influence of estrogen at times in my life myself I can tell you how crazy emotional that hormone will make you and I honestly can't fathom why anyone would want that!) but there's still a spectrum of gender and of gender dysphoria. Some people have severe dysphoria, some people do not. Some people will be way more concerned with how society sees them than their own bodies. Perhaps it seems like a large percentage of trans people fall into the "transition or die" category because they're often more vocal about it (like the, "Don't make the same mistake I did!")? Whereas there's people like me who survived their own personal crisis and wrestling internally with it and have come out the other side more okay with themselves.

And there there's the age differences. When I look at the FTM forum, there's a lot less older people over there. It seems to be a average age of 20-something and they're either in transition, working towards getting a letter for HRT, or contemplating it. Whereas if I drift over to the MTF forum there seem to be many more people 40+ who are just now contemplating or actually starting to transition. Perhaps it's because it's "easier" (I'm using that word very loosely here) to go from female to male than the other way around? At least from a physical standpoint, fat redistribution and facial/body hair from taking testosterone can make one appear to be male under society's lens (with some exceptions) quicker than it takes to transform a body who has been under the influence of testosterone for years with estrogen. I know that's a broad statement and individual genetics really do come into play (hence the exceptions) but why the seemingly vast age differences? Is it more of a society thing? We're to the point in western society where females can pretty much do anything they want ... have a family or not ... have a career or not ... participate in more traditional "male" roles or not. But males are still expected to, "be men" and even the slightest feminine trait is cause for uproar. Of course this is all just my perspective so I'm an outside observer of it all but I'm curious nonetheless of the personal experience of folks on the other side of the fence, so to speak – having to grow up male, when in reality you're female and how that differs from the other way around.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: thevaliantx on February 15, 2014, 07:11:39 PM
The thread title hits home for me because for about a year now I have been making comments to my wife, jokingly, (though I am not sure they were a joke now) that I could just hang myself, step in front of a semi truck or a train and everything would be better.  Whenever I make the comment it's because of something causing me agony that we can both see, yet the pain I am feeling at that moment runs much deeper than she realizes.   About two months ago I was in a really dark place, how I snapped out of I don't know.  How this relates to detransitioning I am not sure either.   I do know that while I am motivated to not transition (don't want to lose my son) I am becoming more and more angry at the thought that my wife is enjoying "having her husband back" while I am basically trapped you the fear of losing my son and not being able to support myself (she makes a lot more money than I do).  There have been many an occasion where I secretly wished something were to happen to my wife (I am not the kind of person who would harm her) so that I could live my life as I wish.  I can't even order a sex toy because of my ultra conservative, non-sexual, cherry picking Christian of a wife.  I, too, am a Christian but I also know what the Bible says (or does not address) about issues related to TG/TS or sex toys and the use of them.  I feel like the scarecrow pointing the way for Dorothy, except Dorothy's the one wearing the coveralls.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: thevaliantx on February 18, 2014, 03:41:16 PM
I gathered that the OP wasLooking for others to share their experiences with denial as it pertains to allowing one to talk his or her self out of tansitioning.  For about four years I found various coping methods.  Big beard.  Acting manly.  Doing what I felt were manly activities.  While I took enjoyment in some of those things, and still do, I lost far greater enjoyment from denying myself the right to be me.  Perhaps more profoundly was my discovery that there is nothing wrong with being yourself, though, as we all know, you should never assume that someone else is on the same page when they suggest that you do.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: FilaFord on February 22, 2014, 09:45:40 PM
Quote from: JordanBlue on February 18, 2014, 12:07:18 PM
There's not much point in debating this issue because everyone does indeed have their own thoughts on it.  Transition is a radical choice and for most people who make it, the only other choice is death.  It's pretty simple, really.  Don't transition unless it's absolutely necessary.

I don't think that I agree with that, mainly because it doesn't fit me!  lol

Transition was not absolutely necessary for me (well maybe not at that specific time in my life), but it was something that I chose to do.  My life as a man was getting overwhelming and I felt out of place a lot of times but it was certainly easier and I was a happy person.  I just was missing something, and I couldn't place my finger on it for the longest time.  Then I had an epiphany in December and it's been off to the races ever since.  I should/would have done this much earlier in life if I wasn't forced to repress it due to my upbringing (societal influences in my area did not take kindly to anything outside of the norm) and fear of my family rejecting me.

It's not a life or death thing for me.  I'd be alright continuing to live my lie as a man, and then getting dolled up once every now and then.  It's just not what I want.  It's never been what I want, but since I repressed it for so long I have learned to enjoy being a man as there are some obvious benefits.  It's just not for me!  I can fake the manly man with relative ease, but I know deep down I am feminine and now I am finally getting a chance to express that side of me and be who I want instead of who society told me I should be.

Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: FilaFord on February 23, 2014, 01:46:09 PM
Quote from: JordanBlue on February 23, 2014, 01:14:55 PM
You're not describing the feelings of a transsexual here.  If you can live as a man and crossdress, do it, and don't transition.  Real simple.

Oh yeah. Real simple.  ::)

So I should just put off transitioning for another 20 years until I can't take it anymore and would rather die than continue faking it? No thanks.

Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: FilaFord on February 24, 2014, 10:42:10 AM
Yeah I'm sure the people who transitioned in their 50s or 60s thought they'd be alright living as a male in the 20s too?

Why are you so entitled to know how mtf transsexuals think?  Glad to know their thoughts can be lumped together so easily for you to make blanket statements.  Guess we are all depressed and suicidal and hate our genitalia too?
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: FilaFord on February 24, 2014, 11:02:57 AM
No worries babe. Guess my mindset is just not right. Gotta go back to the therapist to tell her I'm not trans now and stop these hormones lol
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: Cindy Stephens on February 24, 2014, 12:09:16 PM
God, I hate these fights over who is and who is not a transsexual.  I live socially and for work as a (fake) man, and privately as Cindy.  That is how I maintain a loving and accepting wife, good income, and a future.  I have seen too many in my group meetings jump in and find that their expectations for maintaining a job, family, etc. didn't come to pass.  Many had nightmare outcomes that were far worse than just muddling through.  I have found enough ways to express myself and placate the dysphoria to enable me to survive.  Compromise works, for ME!  If it doesn't for you, then transition. Just base it on possible outcomes that you are willing to accept. The world is a different place today where life choices and pathways exist for younger people to build an authentic life, though it is still hard.  Destroying everything you have built over a lifetime in some misguided attempt (for ME) at martyrdom just seems foolish and self defeating to any sort of life, let alone an authentic one.  It does not, however, make me any less transsexual.     
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: ThePhoenix on February 24, 2014, 12:44:30 PM
You know, the trans* spectrum encompasses a lot more than just transsexual identified persons.  I don't identify as transsexual, for example, but I am still some sort of trans* individual.  So even if someone may not be transsexual, they still may fall elsewhere along the spectrum.  People do have differing ideas of who is and is not trans*.  I deal with that by adopting a rule that says if a person considers themselves to be trans*, then that fully resolves the issue and I will not second guess them.

The idea that everyone who transitions is in a do-or-die situation was very common at one time, but it seems to no longer be a widely held or very factually accurate reflection of reality.  No one transitions frivolously.  But people aren't typically transitioning because they must do it or die.  Some are.  But until now, I had not heard that idea articulated in at least 10-15 years. 

Perhaps the fact that people are not so frequently waiting until stresses are so great leads to more of the second thoughts, doubts, and efforts to talk oneself out of it.  Personally, I think that this actually reflects a greater degree of rationality than is possible with a person who has their backs to the wall as much as the do-or-die situation.  It also reflects that people are accepting themselves and obtaining treatment sooner rather than waiting until they reach a point where stress is so great that they are in a do-or-die situation. 

Think about it:  we are talking about a process that disrupts social relationships, risks exposing oneself to severe discrimination and devastating economic and social consequences, profoundly alters the biology of one's body, alters anatomic features, and costs lots and lots of money.  What sane person would NOT have second thoughts about doing that?

This question of whether other people have second thoughts or not is one of the ones I get asked most often.  My answer is:  of course people have second thoughts.  I think most do.  Most have doubts.  Tons and tons of people try to talk themselves out of it.  I know one person who has changed names, changed pronouns, and started, then stopped transition so many times that I refer to them as "the many named one" because I have no idea what name they are using from one moment to the next.

The people who worry, second guess, and doubt are not the people I worry about.  The people I worry about are the ones who have no second thoughts at all.  Because I fear that, either out of desperation or out of obliviousness, they are not fully thinking it through. 
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: JordanBlue on February 24, 2014, 12:56:28 PM
You folks have fun.  I'm out.  ;)
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: FilaFord on February 24, 2014, 01:08:31 PM
Quote from: JordanBlue on February 24, 2014, 12:56:28 PM
You folks have fun.  I'm out.  ;)

Are we allowed to have fun?  Pretty sure I should be too depressed and suicidal to have fun :(

Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: helen2010 on February 24, 2014, 01:53:04 PM
I'm with Jordan Blue and The Phoenix on this one.   If your dysphoria is severe enough it will probably overwhelm you and an early transition will present as the only viable option available to you.  Whereas if your dysphoria is not overwhelming then you are more likely and able to think it through.   You may then fully transition, partly transition or find another way to deal with dysphoria which works for you.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: FilaFord on February 24, 2014, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: Aisla on February 24, 2014, 01:53:04 PM
I'm with Jordan Blue and The Phoenix on this one.   If your dysphoria is severe enough it will probably overwhelm you and an early transition will present as the only viable option available to you.  Whereas if your dysphoria is not overwhelming then you are more likely and able to think it through.   You may then fully transition, partly transition or find another way to deal with dysphoria which works for you.

I just felt personally attacked by Jordan Blue because of her remarks.  My dysphoria isn't as bad as it could be, but it certainly is prevalent.  My wife has noticed how much happier I am now that I am open with her about everything and she says she has never seen me smile as much as when I am in girl-mode.  I could keep faking it as a man for a while longer, but I don't want to do that anymore.  I've been faking the male role for long enough and everything about transitioning feels right to me. 

My therapist doesn't think that depression and do-or-die is a must for transition and she was very impressed with how much I opened up to her about it all on our first session.  Maybe I jumped the gun on getting on HRT but I am 100% sure that I am making the right decision.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: ThePhoenix on February 24, 2014, 03:52:17 PM
Quote from: FilaFord on February 24, 2014, 02:20:30 PM
I just felt personally attacked by Jordan Blue because of her remarks.  My dysphoria isn't as bad as it could be, but it certainly is prevalent.  My wife has noticed how much happier I am now that I am open with her about everything and she says she has never seen me smile as much as when I am in girl-mode.  I could keep faking it as a man for a while longer, but I don't want to do that anymore.  I've been faking the male role for long enough and everything about transitioning feels right to me. 

My therapist doesn't think that depression and do-or-die is a must for transition and she was very impressed with how much I opened up to her about it all on our first session.  Maybe I jumped the gun on getting on HRT but I am 100% sure that I am making the right decision.

JordanBlue is an older person who was espousing a view that was very common around 20 years ago when I first connected with the trans* community.  It isn't that common now because some things have changed.  But it wasn't a personal attack on you or anyone else.  It was just an older perspective that is not heard as much today.  Likewise, I am guessing that my post is what prompted JordanBlue to delete their posts and leave.  I'm sorry that they did so.  They would have had much to add because older folks do often have some wisdom to share.  But by the same token, they might have benefited from hearing some new perspectives that would have helped with updating that old information just as I had to do when I started reconnecting with trans* people a few years ago. 

We are a group of people who often have some serious wounds.  Those wounds do prompt people to both be more sensitive to perceived attacks and lash out when they perceive themselves being attacked.  Believe me, I know a lot about trans* related wounds.  So I try to be careful about taking things said here too personally and I try to be over cautious about warning people if I'm about to say something that might be controversial.  I don't always succeed, but I try. 

I embarked on my particular transitional journey for many reasons, but a big part of it was because I was tired of being lonely.  To briefly summarize what I have written elsewhere, when I was pretending to be a guy, it left me with no space in which to belong.  And the lack of that space made me an incredibly lonely person all the time.  I couldn't even say the word "lonely" without crying, even if it was referring to someone else's loneliness.  But I was not suicidal.  It was not do-or-die.

I've had the stuffing kicked out of me very well since then.  And sometimes I think maybe I should go back.  Maybe I could have things like my career back.  I'm pretty obsessive about not throwing away medications (because they end up in the Ppotomac River, which already has enough problems).  That means I probably have some Androgel around the house somewhere still.  Knowing how quickly hormones seem to affect me, and how androgynous my underlying body structure is, that means I probably could go back pretty quickly.  But if I did that, I think I'd be dead within a year.  Another trip through the transition journey would probably kill me.

So where does that leave me between the do-or-die people and the folks who do it for other reasons?  I guess right in the middle.  Which seems to be my customary place on lots of things.  I was very amused when I realized that even my height happens to be the exact midpoint between my parents' heights. :)

I do not mean to sound like a moderator, but I do hope we can return to the topic at hand now.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: helen2010 on February 24, 2014, 06:17:33 PM
I also tried to moderate as I certainly have experienced Jordan Blue's perspective.  Indeed I shared their view for many years and it was this do or die, black or white binarism which prevented me from moving forward or addressing my GD.  The advent of more enlightened therapy and therapists plus an improved understanding of myself and of my options has led me to a middle of the road perspective.  This is why I see myself as Gender Queer and TG rather than TS/ MTF and F.

Both perspectives are valid and each has its role like different clothes in your closet.  Take them out, try them on, walk around and keep the presentation you are most comfortable with.  You may later change/transition and that is also fine. 

I appreciate the diversity in thinking and the support and diversity in this community.  Without this I would certainly have had a much poorer and angst ridden life.

Aisla
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: gennee on February 24, 2014, 07:33:31 PM
Self-acceptance is the first step toward self-discovery. Those urges and feelings that you have won't go away. Prior to coming out I was in denial for several weeks.It like being on a torture rack. Couldn't sleep or concentrate. When I came out to myself, all the stress and tension dissipated. If you're happy cross dressing or being androgynous, that's great. If you decide to transition and that's what you really want to do, do it. I'm not going to transition myself because I'm happy  :) as a transgender woman.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: ev420an on March 23, 2014, 08:51:31 PM
Quote from: Sarah Rose on January 20, 2014, 04:28:17 PM
I've been in your position... I'm pre HRT and have only recently come out to my friends/family....

The only thing making me try and push this away is the crap my Mother keeps telling me, she's trying to convince me that I'm destroying my life and pointing out anything and everything she can to make me stop what I'm planning to do (HRT).

I know one thing for sure, every time I tried to push this away it came back harder, and stronger... The last time it came back (about two weeks ago) I was suicidal over it. I quickly lost that depression after coming out. It's hard that's for certain but only you'll know.

I'm going to keep pushing forward, even with the occasional doubt because I know that my only doubts are coming from my Mothers denial.

I know how you feel, I too am out recently to my family (12/3/13) and before I came out I really didn't doubt my feelings about transition.  It was only after I came out, and my parents reacted horribly (disowned) that I began to have doubts.  My mother refuses to believe I am trans.  She went as far as telling me I am a liar and that she is the true witness to my life as a female.  My father asked why I can't just decide being trans isn't "worth it".  So because this has been so painful and I have lost my parents, I began to have doubts.  I know I want to transition in an ideal world, but I am afraid of losing my entire support network.
Title: Re: Talking yourself out of it??
Post by: Paige on March 23, 2014, 10:23:04 PM
The elephant in the room is always the same.  Society treats transgender people like crap.  It might have improved over the years but we're  still very disliked by many.  Transitioning is always going to be tough when family, friends and society have a warped view of gender.  I guess what I'm trying to say is I can understand everyone's points of view on this thread, in such a crazy situation, there are going to be many different opinions and solutions.  Take care.