Now that I'm accepting my self as unconditionally transgender , I was just wondering do you think that the chances are good that one day transgenders will just be viewed as any other male and female without any thought given to any kind of difference to those classified by birth or is it just futile to believe it could be.
I believe it will get better by degrees. I think in time we will have more rights legally, and it may become more understood and accepted socially; but I don't think there will ever be a day that we will be viewed as no different from cisgender people
I honestly like to think so that the will come but its hard to say one way or the other now. One thing I can say is that I've noticed a lot more acceptance these days and ppl fighting for transgender rights as famous public trans figures come to light. But to answer the question I like to hold onto hope :)
Yes, there is hope. But I think it will be gradual.
People can change, but it's up to others to help open their minds. Meaning you have to speak, say things that you will feel make an impact, but I know some people are stubborn. A lot of that just has to do with the generations of yesterday's ideologies living on, however I think those will vanish in time, and people will get smarter. But it starts with others hearing your voice. :)
When I think back to my parents and know that when they were kids there was only one phone company and roatary phones and now they (I assume, I don't speak with them) have Cell phones that have more processing power than all the computers in the world when they were children; only one thought comes to mind:
Why not?
This world has changed so much in their lifetime, that perhaps it will change enough in my lifetime to see children be accepted like it is no big deal.
As I whole heartedly agree with you marieee! The voice of impact is a true must! But one thing else I've noticed to here in a not so accepting state is the the younger generations and my own are way way more accepting ( as I'm 32 Lol ) that with that GEN. Growing up brings their out look on life and passes it to the younger generations as they grow up teaching tolerance and acceptance. So yes maybe just maybe that day will come :)
Unfortunately, much of the older generations are constrained by religious and political bigotry. They were taught what to hate. Today, kids, mostly, are more open minded with information at their fingertips. People like us do not matter to them. We are part of a world they choose to learn about. If I asked my parents a question I would be expected to take whatever answer that was given to be absolutely correct. Advice HAD to be taken. These days, if my son asks me a question, he checks my answer out on Google. A vote of no confidence ? I like to think its an indication of an open mind evident in the younger generations.
Tomorrow is going to be better, the next day, even more so.
Yes things are changing. They have come a long way since 1965. Back then you had to have a closet, for your closet, for your closet to come out of! :)
It will get better. It is getting better.
Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 14, 2014, 11:07:32 PM
It will get better. It is getting better.
Agreed Jamie de la Rosa its got too!! :)
I have the impression that things will get better because "economical" things are getting worse... :)
in a certain way, at least in Italy, this is sensible: if you don't have the money, you care less of
what the neighbor is doing and, moreover, it is better to have friends than enemies in a "crisis".
Great question.
I think it will only get better if we make it better.
We need to educate people about why we do what we do and what we go through. Right now, we're defined by the media which has painted an ignorant and sensational portrait of us but that's the only thing that most people know.
Quote from: nikkit72 on February 14, 2014, 10:57:24 PM
Unfortunately, much of the older generations are constrained by religious and political bigotry. They were taught what to hate. Today, kids, mostly, are more open minded with information at their fingertips. People like us do not matter to them. We are part of a world they choose to learn about. If I asked my parents a question I would be expected to take whatever answer that was given to be absolutely correct. Advice HAD to be taken. These days, if my son asks me a question, he checks my answer out on Google. A vote of no confidence ? I like to think its an indication of an open mind evident in the younger generations.
Tomorrow is going to be better, the next day, even more so.
+1 ^^ Right on the money kid! I am from the "old' generation -hate to acknowledge- but interact with youngster at work, at the school (University), and at home (my kids friends); and yeah, it is true that for the most part the younger generation seems more accepting that the older generation. This seems to be a cross-cultural phenomena as I have observed this differences in Chile, Panama, France, and the Netherlands, for example.
and yes, it will get better as the old generation passes away...
I hope I get to live long enough to see racism, transphobia, homophobia, religious intolerance gone the way of the "Dodo" bird at least in our empire (Western and Westernized countries)
Things have already improved a great deal compared to where they started. I for one believe that we are at the start of a big burst of progress in acceptance. So yes, I think things will get better and people will accept that we are not "transgenders." We are people. First, foremost, and above all else, a transgender person is a person.
But acceptance, respect, and embrace all must start with us. It sounds strange to say this, but one big issue is teaching transgender people how to respect transgender people and making the transgender community a more accepting place for transgender people. And there are generational divides there as well.
Our rights, and acceptance will keep improving. However, we are such a small percentage, we will always be viewed as different.
If you look at the way cis gendered gay people have fully integrated (I know, lots of room for argument there.) It is because of their vast numbers.
We are visible, and a tiny minority. We've got our work cut out for us.
Quote from: nikkit72 on February 14, 2014, 10:57:24 PM
Unfortunately, much of the older generations are constrained by religious and political bigotry. They were taught what to hate. Today, kids, mostly, are more open minded with information at their fingertips. People like us do not matter to them. We are part of a world they choose to learn about. If I asked my parents a question I would be expected to take whatever answer that was given to be absolutely correct. Advice HAD to be taken. These days, if my son asks me a question, he checks my answer out on Google. A vote of no confidence ? I like to think its an indication of an open mind evident in the younger generations.
Tomorrow is going to be better, the next day, even more so.
That's where the hope truly lives. The biggest weapon against bigotry is knowledge. With kids growing up with the Internet in their back pocket and the mentality to question what they're told, the future for all minorities is bright.
Quote from: ErinM on February 15, 2014, 11:55:56 AM
That's where the hope truly lives. The biggest weapon against bigotry is knowledge. With kids growing up with the Internet in their back pocket and the mentality to question what they're told, the future for all minorities is bright.
also I would of never had Susan's while transitioning without the internet, Its a great place to learn. before coming to Susan's ( the internet) my perception of this community was so different. My only awareness was Jerry Springer and Christine Jorgensen
I have to say that things will get better. Two cases to make my point:
Going through grade school in the seventies, there were only two or three overweight children in the whole school. They were picked on mercilessly. Taking my nieces and nephews to many school functions, I've seen a drastic change in attitude. Lol, Hoss Cartwrite was like, FAT, seeing an old episode of Bonanza in a retirement home I volunteer at, I thought "He is big but I wouldn't say fat at all."
I grew up in a very redneck family. You will not find a group of more homophobic people in the USA.(Deliverance has always baffled me) All through my childhood, gays were not accepted at all. When I got out of the military and back from Germany in 93 my family had sprouted three gay people, and no one was being burned on the cross or dragged through the streets with a big red G on their chest. Funny enough, the cousin(not gay) that was dating other than a caucasian was ostracized.
In a relationship familiarity may breed contempt, but in society familiarity breeds acceptance. It won't be perfect, it's not now for overweight and gay people, but it will get better.
There are just so few of us now.
Honestly, with how hard it is for so many of us to come to terms with, is it any wonder others would have difficulties also?
I hope, and believe, that things will one day be better. For me though it would not matter, because I am happy for the first time in a very long time. If I had to be Michael again, I would get out one of my guns, dust it off and put and end to it, in hopes that my next life would be better.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Michelle
I live next to a major University in a suburb of Chicago . For the most part the town is pretty quiet. Given that the University is right here it's a pretty liberal place to live. As I transition I have no fear other than the normal mugging fear when you walk around at 3 in the morning. I've been taking small steps in progression. I'm at the level now where I sit in my favorite coffee place with the other students sitting around. I always where some eye liner and my bra on that makes my breasts pronounce. Nobody says any thing . Once in a while if nobody's seen me before I'll get a look. Guys tend just to look at my breasts through the window some times. I plan on this summer to try full time. At that point I'll definitely be recognizably in different clothes by a lot of people who've seen me as a male. It's going to be a challenge but I have no fear of any thing happening. Things have change a lot since growing up , but there sure is quite a ways to go. It's not only for us ,but the world if it chose to could be such an enlightened place for all living things. I just hope and pray the planet could truly attain its possibility.
Oh Stephanie, I am so hopeful and encouraged by what I see today as perceptions change and we become more accepted in mainstream. As examples, I immediately think of Laverne Cox with her show "Orange is the New Black", Janet Mock trans activist writer, and even Jenna Talackova, our Canadian Miss Universe participant (She has her own show now too). In the US, your Vice President, Joe Biden has even addressed Trans* issues as the next main social issue of this decade. Can you imagine any of this 30, 20, or even 10 years ago? The Internet has been a fabulous unifying tool for us all across the world. My heart soared and tears flowed with so much pride at how the LGBTQ community reached out to the Russian people via the Internet to show them solidarity against the repressive policies there.
I wanted to transition at 19 (20 years ago) I had no role model or point of reference to be proud of. Today I am so proud of our community and how we have grown.
The big irony for me is that as the world becomes smaller, it also needs to become more inclusive. :)
Quote from: ana on February 15, 2014, 06:15:58 PM
Oh Stephanie, I am so hopeful and encouraged by what I see today as perceptions change and we become more accepted in mainstream. As examples, I immediately think of Laverne Cox with her show "Orange is the New Black", Janet Mock trans activist writer, and even Jenna Talackova, our Canadian Miss Universe participant (She has her own show now too). In the US, your Vice President, Joe Biden has even addressed Trans* issues as the next main social issue of this decade. Can you imagine any of this 30, 20, or even 10 years ago? The Internet has been a fabulous unifying tool for us all across the world. My heart soared and tears flowed with so much pride at how the LGBTQ community reached out to the Russian people via the Internet to show them solidarity against the repressive policies there.
I wanted to transition at 19 (20 years ago) I had no role model or point of reference to be proud of. Today I am so proud of our community and how we have grown.
The big irony for me is that as the world becomes smaller, it also needs to become more inclusive. :)
yes , the same here growing up no role models , but times are definitely changing
Quote from: stephaniec on February 15, 2014, 05:26:51 PM
I live next to a major University in a suburb of Chicago . For the most part the town is pretty quiet. Given that the University is right here it's a pretty liberal place to live. As I transition I have no fear other than the normal mugging fear when you walk around at 3 in the morning. I've been taking small steps in progression. I'm at the level now where I sit in my favorite coffee place with the other students sitting around. I always where some eye liner and my bra on that makes my breasts pronounce. Nobody says any thing . Once in a while if nobody's seen me before I'll get a look. Guys tend just to look at my breasts through the window some times. I plan on this summer to try full time. At that point I'll definitely be recognizably in different clothes by a lot of people who've seen me as a male. It's going to be a challenge but I have no fear of any thing happening. Things have change a lot since growing up , but there sure is quite a ways to go. It's not only for us ,but the world if it chose to could be such an enlightened place for all living things. I just hope and pray the planet could truly attain its possibility.
Familiarity breeds acceptance. I read that phrase somewhere, though I can not remember where, but it is becoming the case for us. The more of us there are out there behaving and presenting like any other woman on the street and the work place and the gym and the coffee shop, the more people will ignore us. In a positive way. If we live up to the media stereotypes or expectations and not the same ideals as our peers in every day life then we are going to get in trouble.
It is soo much better today than it was yesterday.
Stephanie, go for it ! :)
Quote from: nikkit72 on February 15, 2014, 06:49:58 PM
Familiarity breeds acceptance. I read that phrase somewhere, though I can not remember where, but it is becoming the case for us. The more of us there are out there behaving and presenting like any other woman on the street and the work place and the gym and the coffee shop, the more people will ignore us. In a positive way. If we live up to the media stereotypes or expectations and not the same ideals as our peers in every day life then we are going to get in trouble.
It is soo much better today than it was yesterday.
Stephanie, go for it ! :)
there is a mtf that either works for the University or goes to school there or both . she's been walking around for about 5 years and nobody gives her a second look
Quote from: Michelle69 on February 15, 2014, 04:15:28 PM
I hope, and believe, that things will one day be better. For me though it would not matter, because I am happy for the first time in a very long time. If I had to be Michael again, I would get out one of my guns, dust it off and put and end to it, in hopes that my next life would be better.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Michelle
And here I agree 100%. Actually there are many good posts here and answers to this question. I too went to high school in the late 70's. The differences in acceptance between then and now is unimaginable. So yes, I very much think things will get better and that they are every day. We have come so far already.
For me Michelle though I am an adoptee, it was Italians on my adopted fathers side instead of rednecks. Same difference though, lol! :D Me, I'm Native American born on a Reservation, and was adopted off after losing my Mom in a car accident when I was 6. I have much hope for our future in society. ;)
Quote from: Marieee on February 14, 2014, 09:52:10 PM
Yes, there is hope. But I think it will be gradual.
People can change, but it's up to others to help open their minds. Meaning you have to speak, say things that you will feel make an impact, but I know some people are stubborn. A lot of that just has to do with the generations of yesterday's ideologies living on, however I think those will vanish in time, and people will get smarter. But it starts with others hearing your voice. :)
yes there is so much hope for this planet given the distanced traveled such as Roman slavery, but it seems to be the unending day to day fight that will eventually break through hopefully. It wasn't very long ago I had really long hair and was buying some hard ware at a store and some one my age or younger told me to get a hair cut, very strange experience. There will probably be those lingering around in the dark trying to cause trouble ,but hopefully the good will prevail eventually.
I have found the more passable i have become the more accepting people are, not so long ago someone said to me * i thought most ->-bleeped-<-s were ugly freaks but you actually look like a woman* and that was of a gay man. Make of that what you will but i believe sadly looks are the main aspect to being accepted.
Quote from: jebee on February 16, 2014, 03:44:35 PM
I have found the more passable i have become the more accepting people are, not so long ago someone said to me * i thought most ->-bleeped-<-s were ugly freaks but you actually look like a woman* and that was of a gay man. Make of that what you will but i believe sadly looks are the main aspect to being accepted.
the only problem with that is that because your unacceptable to some one else's eye sight you shouldn't try to heal your self. Yes, it's terrible we're being judged by standards of whether we" pass" or not . Hopefully the standards in the future will be quite different to allow people to experience life with out fear.
Quote from: jebee on February 16, 2014, 03:44:35 PM
I have found the more passable i have become the more accepting people are, not so long ago someone said to me * i thought most ->-bleeped-<-s were ugly freaks but you actually look like a woman* and that was of a gay man. Make of that what you will but i believe sadly looks are the main aspect to being accepted.
I've refrained from posting similar words for fear of being predudicial, however there's no denying that my lifelong feminine features have been an asset rather than a hinderance. Since I started living full time 5 years ago even before hrt I've passed almost everywhere I go. It was before then when I tried to pass for male that I had problems with other people. Therefore though it's sad to admit our society is like this, but I have to agree with you looks do make a difference. And those of us that have a natural femininity have had things much easier than some of our sisters have. ;)
20 years ago a lesbian friend of mine asked if I thought gay people would ever be well accepted by society. I had young children at the time and I was already seeing a change in their attitude and told her "when this generation grows up, it'll be better." She didn't believe me, but now look what is happening.
I think it will, and is, getting better. So many people have accepted me for who I am. Yes, there is still resistance, but it is dying. The important thing is that we move forward. Like the gay rights movement of the 80s and 90s, it is important to come out, be proud, and show everyone that transgendered people are normal people. We're not deviants, or miscreants, just regular gals (and guys) trying to get by and make the most out of the life we have. We just have to be ever-vigilant for a backlash. That's what concerns me. The wrong group gets in power and it's back to the Victorian era we go.
Jane