I keep have conflicting thoughts because I've never wanted a penis, hated my boobs and wanted facial hair, etc but I don't feel comfortable in a "female" role either (I have more masculine mannerisms and speech and I have this desire to dress more masculine and get a short hair cut)...does this mean I am not a FTM? and if I am, how do you accept this? Having a really hard time accepting the fact that I am not a stereotypical cisgendered straight female (which I've tried to be for the longest time but am really unhappy like that so I know that's not who I am)...does this make any sense to you guys?
Hi Confused, Welcome to Susan's.
It is quite possible that you are not FTM but somewhere else on the gender spectrum. Androgyne perhaps, which incorporates a bit of both sides. If so, you are not alone by any means.
There's physical dysphoria (how you want your body to be) and social dysphoria (how you want to act and be treated in society), many Trans* people have some of both, but some have more of one than another. Just because you don't have a burning desire for a phallus doesn't make you less Trans*.
This article might be worth reading, it's by a non-binary author who discusses the concept of "not Trans enough":
http://neutrois.me/2013/10/30/non-binary-not-trans-enough/ (http://neutrois.me/2013/10/30/non-binary-not-trans-enough/)
hey mate!
seems youre treading stormy water, huh? Theres nothing wrong with not having a burning desire for a penis, and nobody can really tell you how you feel. Personally, it does sound like youre more towards androgene. What sort of feelings do you get when people use male pronouns with you? Do you have no interest in all in having a penis just for no reason, or is it for a specific reason you dont want one? (like the way the surgical ones turn out?)
I'd say, try talking to a therapist...not saying that you're crazy and need a shrink, but more like they really can help you figure things out better than we can. Of course only you can prevent forest fires figure this out for yourself. sometimes you just get trapped in an awkward time, so therapy can help you out of that one.
Good luck confused!!
I agree with the others, while you may just need time to accept who you are which can sometimes take a while (years for many), it sounds like you actually might be more on the non-binary spectrum of things. Gender is a tricky thing its not always black and white, there are many grey areas that people find themselves in. A gender therapist can be very helpful, also I found forums such as this to be priceless. Don't be afraid to post in multiple areas, here, the non-op section, transgender section, androgen section and reading in different areas as sometimes that can help you realize where you truly are by reading and hearing from others in the same situations. Everyone is here to help.
Well there are gender roles, gender presentation, and so on, and they are actually separate from a strong feeling of being in a certain gender. Gender roles are very cultural and bound by generations and so on. A "woman" acting in a female gender in a strict right wing fundamentalist family is going to have a very different experience than a "hippy" gal or an astronaut physicist, but all could be quite comfortable being called "female". I think that in this day and age "role" in the Western world almost has no bearing at all.
Gender presentation is also quite different, a pink dress wearing, high heel wearing woman has quite a different presentation than a biker chick or the hippy above. I also think how you present matters very little in the Western world. (I think more trouble for our trans sisters! But even that is changing-- a boy in my middle school where I taught had long golden hair. The complaint everyone had about his: "he's too smart!" )
So we are left with feeling of gender. SOme of us knew very early, I think the earlier you knew the higher the dysphoria (not some sort of scientific study). OTOH, some of us are slower learners on this. Therapy from a therapist who specializes in gender can be helpful with the right person.
--Jay
I want to second what aleon said. Roles and presentation are separate from gender. Do you feel uncomfortable with female roles or with being female?
Are you content with more masculine clothes and haircut? How far do you want to go? Plenty of women also wear masculine clothes, have short hair, and exhibit more masculine traits. Not saying this is the case for you, but I would recommend thinking it over. It might also be worth checking around the androgyne boards as others have suggested.
I wouldn't worry about the physical stuff. Dysphoria comes in all sorts of degrees and combinations. What would make me pause is the use of the term "roles."
As for accepting it, I don't think there is really any advice that can be given since it would need to be specific to you. Give it time?
For me, I had a few things to accept about myself such as being trans and being queer. I started accepting that I am trans when I realized I really like myself and want to be me. It took a few more months accepting that it was ok for me to have feminine traits and that it didn't make me any less masculine which I did by learning to ignore people's opinions on having to be either/or. Liking who I am really helped with that too. I was able to accept being queer when I learned to ignore the stereotype perpetuated in media. Looking up gay metal musicians helped with that. Anyway, that's a brief summary of what worked for me. What works for you would have to be tailored to what is preventing you from accepting your own stuff.
I'm on the same page as the others, in terms of looking at what exactly it is about being female that makes you uncomfortable. Because some people are uncomfortable being female, but that doesn't necessarily mean they want to be male. I've spoken with women who questioned if they were transgender when they heard about the whole "not feeling right in your body" aspect - and after contemplation, they found they had different issues entirely. I'm not saying this is you, just giving you some stuff to think about based on my experiences. The women I met...they didn't want to be male, they just disliked certain aspects of being female because of society. I knew two for who it was an eating disorder. They saw men as thinner, less curvy, and wanted that same lanky frame without all the other aspects of being male. Others had been abused (sexually, or emotionally) and believed that being male would make them "safer." They didn't want to be male because they felt they were male, they just had serious struggles around certain aspects of their femaleness. And that's worth investigating, because those problems won't go away with transitioning. Even if the outside is male and people treat you as male, your original issues still remain. Plus, the possibility of being unhappy with your new sexual characteristics - body hair, male shape, etc.
I can tell you a little bit about my process, because it was long for me and I overthought a lot of it so I know the little nuances, lol...I first learned about FTMs in late 2006. I knew that many things they spoke of resonated with me, and I felt like "this is what I am going through", but I knew it wasn't going to be easy. It's not often as bad or as tragic as cis people make it out to be, but it can still be very hard and isolating. So I looked into seeing if there was a way that I was a cisgender woman. I started experimenting with wearing men's clothes, and worked on my confidence and personality. I knew that I wasn't expressing myself fully - I come from a family that's quite sexist, so I grew up feeling restricted in a lot of ways. I wanted to overcome those before I looked into transitioning, in case that's where my discomfort was coming from. And yeah. I felt better in men's clothes, and with short hair. I cut bad people out of my life and surrounded myself with people who shared my values, believed in me, and helped me to empower myself and be a confident, functional individual. I found a really great girlfriend who loved me no matter if I was male or female. That transformation happened over about 3 years and I really was like a completely different person. I don't like to gender it, because it wasn't about gender - but objectively, I went from living a stereotypical "female" role to living as I wanted, knowing I had the option to do anything that a man could do. That's key. Knowing that regardless of whether you are male or female, you can do whatever you want to do and be happy and successful. I hear about too many people saying they can't partake in "X" activity until they present as male, and that's a bunch of crap. You can do whatever you want, whenever you want. Sure, I got some dirty looks, I got some people making disparaging comments - but people will do that no matter who you are, or what gender you are. People are just mean. At least I knew I was doing the things I liked and I had people who genuinely loved me for me.
But anyway, over those three years (since you asked how to accept it if you realize you are in fact FTM)...in that time I kept reflecting on it, because although so much had changed - my appearance, my role, my confidence - I still felt discomfort around my female body. I talked to my girlfriend about it extensively, telling her my fears about being trans - the hassle, the discrimination, the possibility of looking "weird", not being able to afford it, being disowned...but the biggest fear I had was that I wouldn't be normal. I told her so many times, I'd rather be a gender non-conforming, out lesbian, cisgender woman than have to deal with my trans feelings. I'd rather deal with ignorance than deal with confronting my body dysphoria and making myself so emotionally vulnerable by telling everyone that I was really a man when I looked so female. By that point we both knew that I was trans and that this was a real thing. She always said to me "maybe you wouldn't be seen as normal to the outside world if you transitioned, but what is normal for YOU? You have to realize that you'd always feel abnormal inside - all the outside acceptance won't even matter if inside you are suffering."
So I accepted it...by, well, realizing that it was a thing and that it wasn't going to go away. I saw that I had done everything to try and live as a woman. I fully accepted my love of women, and held my girlfriend's hand in public with pride, so I knew it wasn't internalized homophobia. I'd fully integrated myself into a number of women's studies classes, and suffered a great deal of anger over how our society treats women - so it wasn't internalized sexism or misogyny. I'd overcome all my fears and done all the things I used to tell myself a woman couldn't do, so I was expressing myself fully and didn't want to transition to fill a male role (as I could do that in a female body, easily). Some people thought I was weird, and I truly didn't care...I just laughed at them for limiting their view of what each gender could do. I didn't see any other way to explain why I had the feeling of wanting to have a male body since childhood. So that was what drove me to accept it - I just saw that it was the way it was. That it wasn't going to go away. So I could either do something about it, or as my gf said, always have these bad feelings inside and suffer.
Now do you have to take 3 years like I did to rule everything out? Probably not. Really, what it came down to in the end was that I was scared. I wanted any other explanation so I didn't have to transition. But I am glad I considered all the things I did, and I am glad I worked on myself as a person, because it has given me more strength and conviction to deal with the challenges that come with being trans. Not going to lie, I still wish I was cisgender. Cisgender man, cisgender woman, I don't care - I just hate sometimes how long this process is, how hard it is to access the things I need (surgeries in particular), people's ignorance towards trans people (some people can tell even farther into transition, either because they were told, or because they see a lot of trans people and know the physical features). It's tough. And if someone could find a way to live without transitioning, power to them, but I have accepted that this is my hand in life.
Quote from: Confused888How are you entirely sure you're a FTM??
I've known that I was a male trapped in the wrong body since my earliest conscious memory - especially when I started kindy and was made to file in with the girls. That segregation was the first time it hit me - that for some reason, people don't understand I'm a boy.
Quote from: Confused888 on February 25, 2014, 08:00:51 AM
I keep have conflicting thoughts because I've never wanted a penis, hated my boobs and wanted facial hair, etc but I don't feel comfortable in a "female" role either (I have more masculine mannerisms and speech and I have this desire to dress more masculine and get a short hair cut)...does this mean I am not a FTM? and if I am, how do you accept this? Having a really hard time accepting the fact that I am not a stereotypical cisgendered straight female (which I've tried to be for the longest time but am really unhappy like that so I know that's not who I am)...does this make any sense to you guys?
Not all FTMs "know" in a clear sense that they are FTM from earliest memory. Some find out later after a great deal of self-exploration.
That's why I think that therapy can be beneficial for those who are confused. Just because you don't want to decide to transition and then later regret it. Either way, a good therapist can help you identify things that you're struggling with and why.
But as the others have said, there are also a great many variations of gender today - genderqueer, androgyne, etc. You may not be an FTM. I would suggest talking to others in different areas of the gender spectrum - we have boards here that are more specific to them. Get different perspectives outside of just FTM.
I am just starting to ask all of these questions for myself, and one of the things that I have considered is that while I have never been comfortable being female, always felt something was wrong, it never occurred to me that there was an alternative. I just always thought "damn, I wish I looked like he did. I hate how I look. No, you just don't like being fat (my mother was always so hung up on it that it rubbed off on me). No, I want to look that way! Oh shut up, self, it isn't possible; you are female".
But once I started to consider this, to think about being male, that it could ACTUALLY BE AN OPTION, well then I started thinking about all of the different aspects and what it would be like. It took a lot to finally let my mind go there. Trying to imagine having male parts is still difficult for me, kind of like trying to imagine owning a winged horse or something you have never had experience with. And then once I started thinking about what it would be like to have one, what it would feel like, part of me doesn't want to think about it anymore because for me, in my life, it will never be a possibility. It's kind of like opening Pandora's box though :-\ Now I think about it with increasing frequency. Sigh.
There's no immediate way to tell if you are trans* or genderqueer or just don't conform to traditional gender roles. I'd suggest that you spend some time thinking about it and what it is that makes you want to be male -- do you feel like you would be happier presenting as a man or are you just uncomfortable with traditional female gender roles? Playing around with gender to see what you are the most comfortable with will probably also be helpful. That really helped me figure it out, personally.
Masculine women often feel uncomfortable in female gender roles.
I've wanted a penis since I was probably 3. I really loved being shirtless and I knew I was a boy since about 4. I would go to bed and wish really hard to wake up a boy.
My gender was really cut and dry. For most people it's not nearly as black and white.
Sometimes it's normal and possible to be okay with combining qualities from both ends of the gender spectrum. I remember dating a fun girl years ago. She had a very sexy body AND she enjoyed working on her car, re-building the engine, etc. An interesting mix.
Part of me has always known, since I was 4, but having never heard about trans people I fell into being a tomboy. When I finally realized I might be trans, but was secretly hoping I wasn't because who wants to be out there and transition and let everyone know your private business? Certainly not me!!
What cemented it was a) I wanted to vomit if I had to picture myself as an old woman; b) I could not live another day pretending to be a woman and c) the day I decided I needed to transition I actually GOT RID OF every last piece of F clothing I owned. And I knew. Because as practical (and cheap!) as I am I never would have gotten rid of clothes that I *might* have a use for in the future. There was no *might* about it. Gone.
Transitioned and never looked back.
For you it is OK to question where you fit. You may be trans, you may be androgynous, you may be female. A good gender therapist can help. One thing I would say is DO NOT TRANSITION unless you are sure you NEED TO. Don't do it because I did it, or some friends did it, or whatever. It's not a trend. Do it only if it is medically necessary in order to LIVE!!
Changing your clothes, binding, changing your hairstyle, all of these things can help you see what makes you most comfortable. Do you cringe if someone calls you sir? Or are you elated? All of that stuff can help you figure out where you fit. Good luck!
Quote from: Confused888 on February 25, 2014, 08:00:51 AM
I keep have conflicting thoughts because I've never wanted a penis, hated my boobs and wanted facial hair, etc but I don't feel comfortable in a "female" role either (I have more masculine mannerisms and speech and I have this desire to dress more masculine and get a short hair cut)...does this mean I am not a FTM? and if I am, how do you accept this? Having a really hard time accepting the fact that I am not a stereotypical cisgendered straight female (which I've tried to be for the longest time but am really unhappy like that so I know that's not who I am)...does this make any sense to you guys?
For me, each thing I change about myself to present more masculine makes me feel good. Each step I took to be more feminine made me feel awful. If you want a short haircut, get a short haircut. If you don't want a penis, don't get a penis.
Transition for me was accelerated when I realized I only had to make the choice to be comfortable as me.
I'm a guy who was born with incorrect anatomy. That's all it's ever been to me. There's nothing that ever bothered me about being female because I never was and never thought I was, to the point where I thought I was dying from internal bleeding when I started menstruating because I thought I'd grow up to be a normal guy and didn't think a "period" was something that was possible for me (in spite of years of being educated about what to expect). I don't know how to explain I'm sure. It's just what I am, just like a cisgender man knows he's a man and has never had to think about how he knows. It has always been a very black-and-white case for me.
Thanks everyone for your responses...haven't been on in while but everyone's input helps a lot!
Just going to let you know right now its not black and white. I didnt wake up one day and go, you know what im transgender.
Its something that evolves with you. I like to think of trying things. Trans label aside, i wanted short hair. So i got short hair and i liked it. It was time to dress formaly, ok ill try a shirt and tie instead of a dress. I like it i keep doing it. Over time i noticed i've added all these things i like, but then i realized my body wouldnt magically change, but at this point its less of a huge step to start testosterone because ive basically been transitioning but i was just doing what made me more comfortable. And even now im still getting more comfortable. And i dont really think of myself as trans or transitioning im just goin with what feels good. Should never feel like a forced thing, its most definitely not a race. Just gotta do what makes you more comfortable.
My story is different that most others I've read but I'll post in case it resonates/helps you.
I took me a long time to figure myself out. I've always had issues with feeling like there was something wrong with me, or that I was different from everyone else. I also always tended towards male style and hobbies and I desperately wanted to be 'one of the boys'. It wasn't until a couple years ago though that I connected these things together and realised that the reason I felt disconnected from the world could be due to gender issues. I spent those couple years doing a lot of internet research and reading about different gender variants and have at different times tried on the identities of feminist, androgyne, genderqueer, agender, bigender and a bunch of others. None of them really felt right for me though and It came to a point where I had to admit to myself that I simply wasn't a girl. I still wasn't sure that I was a guy either though. I came out to my husband and got his support in exploring my gender more. For context I'm 26.
Really though, after all of that it came down to one day. I decided that that was the day I became a man. I put on my (at that time) only male clothes, went to the mall, got my hair chopped short and did some shopping. On my way out of the mall I took a selfie (don't judge me) and when I saw myself on the screen all I could think was "God damn I look hot." For context, I'd never really been happy with my appearance up until this point, I shrugged off compliments and always kind of assumed that people were just being nice. That day though, I just felt sexy. I couldn't stop looking at myself in the mirror and smiling. Although nothing had really changed, other than my hair, it felt like I'd been wearing a mask my whole life and now that I'd finally taken action and let me see myself as male, the mask was off and I could finally really see myself.
Since that day I've never considered that I might be anything other than male.
wat does it make me if I dont want to be neither male or female? I like to address myself asexual but my sister says I can't be bc I like girls. I hate my voice and boobs but want nice skin and don't want facial hair
I just always wanted to be a boy, since I was a little kid, I liked to fight, I wanted to do boy things, so I got into sports, couldn't wait to cut my hair, hate my boobs, just want to look more masculine, far as penis, I would love to have one and I do want one, but with the way the surgeries are right now, I just don't want one, personal preference, if they can make a penis in a better way sure lol, I'm good with just using a prosthetic for now. I think a lot of people at first struggle with, well am I trans? I suggest going to a therapist to help clear your feelings over this, it might help you figure out your thoughts, cause for years I tried playing the straight cis gendered female role, trying to fit in and make others happy, but I never was, even had a bf and had sex with him, but it was always a disconnect, I never grew feelings and was unhappy even though to others it looked like I was. Its a lot of emotions and thoughts to process, so yeah therapist might help