Please don't quote or copy images. Keep it secret, keep it safe. Also read wordy text before interpreting photos. Thank you.
I wanted to share some pics and get opinions on my transgender friends appearance. She's feeling incredibly insecure and scared about going full time soon (early summer or late spring) and how she is going to be taken or judged by society, so she would really like honest opinions on her potential to pass as female. As you all know, the ability to pass or blend is really important to this friend (probably more than it is healthy), so she really does care to know whether or not she is a lost cause in this department. As scared as she may be to hear it, she needs a dose of reality in order to process how she should move forward. And before I get into it, I'd like to apologize for being so wordy and weird with this post, but this was the only way I'd feel comfortable posting this and taking this big step, so bear with me and my craziness. After all, you all know how she is and must know how terrifying this post is for her, lol.
Now before you judge my friends' appearance, please keep in mind a few things. Even though my friend is very sensitive about how she looks as she feels both ugly and unpassable, she is looking to hear honest opinions that are done in a considerate manner. While she doesn't want anyone to tear her down, she needs to know the reality of whether they will ever be able to pass and face her situation for what it really is. So don't let the fact that she is a fragile snowflake prevent honesty because that's what she "needs" even if it upsets or hurts her. It's time for her to face facts. Also, I should note that she is aware that there is much room for improvement and that her current appearance doesn't pass as she is stuck in androgynous stage limbo. She has a ways to go with hormones, laser, losing weight and remains pre- rhinoplasty. Yet at the same time the hormones keep making a big impact (slowly), laser is being done at 6 week intervals, and she's being really careful to exercise and limit her eating (usually to one meal a day) so she can continue to lose that horrible excessive weight she put on during her denial phase. With all that said, it should be clear that there is still much to be done. However, she also realizes there are some flaws she can never change and will have to live with forever; therefore, she needs to know whether or not she's a total lost cause. While 100 percent passing isn't possible for her and she is coming to accept that, she would like the ability to blend in with the majority of people as she doesn't want the entire world knowing she is trans.
Another thing to note is that these pictures are very raw and are more or less average photos of her (not the best nor are they the worst). Generally she takes daily progress photos at night and in the morning with her phone to see how their natural appearance is changing with the influence of hormones. So she isn't wearing any makeup or doing anything special (other than hair straightening in some) and sort of looks like a hot mess in baggy clothes in most. These photos are her natural appearance either before she is going to bed or while she's getting ready to head out for the day. Since my friend hopes to one day come somewhat close to male fail mode (understanding it's not entirely possible for many reasons), it's important that they are judged for how they really look and not a dolled up picture that doesn't represent their true everyday appearance. Obviously makeup and clothing helps improve her appearance in a big way, but I feel that could skew how people judge her natural appearance and whether there is passing potential. So don't judge her "beauty" (or lack thereof lol) but judge her potential to one day pass as female and let her know if she really is a lost cause because sometimes she feels that way and wonders if she is just hopeless.
Okay, now for the photos. Remember keep all of the following in mind. She's either in boymode or a hot mess before going to bed, so they aren't the most flattering shots. And she is wearing loose clothes, so she looks much bigger and fatter than she really is. Still they show how she really looks and that's what needs to be seen in order for accurate assessment, so be honest on whether she has the potential to one day pass or not. I'm so scared. I'm terrified, but she needs to hear the reality despite her insecurities and fears. Okay here is the link to her photostream- http://www.flickr.com/photos/118627967@N03/
Now her facial flaws that need fixing are very obvious. She has a horrible hairline which detracts from a feminine appearance. My friend wants to find the right hairstyle that will diminish the prominence of the forehead and is currently thinking about going with wispy or feathered bangs ( she hates blunt bangs). I think that will do a lot of good for her passing ability, what do you think? Now we come to the worst flaw: her nose. Yes, the beastly beak which she calls a nose. She HATES her nose and it kills her to know she is going to require a nosejob because she doesn't have the means for it and will need to wait some time before getting it fixed. This is one of the biggies that really prevents her from passing in my opinion. Do you think it makes her unpassable or will keep her at that point if she doesn't get a nosejob? Besides those issues, makeup does wonders and she isn't too concerned about anything else for when the time comes.
Okay, I'll leave these photos up for a day or so. Please don't quote the images or copy them. She's shaking and terrified for doing this, but she feels this is something she has to do. After all, she needs to get over her fear and could use some help regarding her appearance. Besides she needs to face facts and realize what she is working with rather than dreaming about her ideal situation and hoping for that to come. So, this is a huge step for her even if it doesn't seem that way. In any event, she would really like honesty about whether or not she can one day pass. Any tips or advice you may wish to share would also be appreciated. Maybe sometime in the future or soon she will show everyone what she looks like in makeup and clothes that suit her, lol. We'll see. Thanks everyone! :D
By the way, in case anyone stumbles upon this and recognizes my friend, please leave them be. I'm sure you probably have thought she was weird or different in some way and now you know why. Since she was little this has been eating away at her soul and causing her tremendous pain and sorrow that has been really hard to cope with. As though her entire life she's been trapped in this emotional and physical prison that she couldn't escape. If she is ever to have a happy life and feel comfortable in her own skin, she needs to embrace this and be true to how she feels on the inside. I understand that it's different and perhaps confusing, but please don't judge, ridicule or hate them for being different. All they want is to live a normal/happy life where they can feel free to be who they are. I think that's something we can all agree with, so please respect her privacy as she would respect yours. Thanks in advance for this consideration.
Did you post the right photos? If so, I don't understand the issue. She already looks very feminine.
;)
Ok so If I was that girl Id definately get straight bangs...or any type of bangs to hide the forehead,,,I do it too...
Also her eyebrows need a little work and a bit of make up should help too...
I didnt really noticed the nose until you said that its hideous,,,but yeah a nose job would be nice,,,but it isnt that mandatory I believe...
I mean she could definately pass with it...
Overall dear I really think that she looks really nice , there are only minor flaws to fix and then she d be able to go full time for sure...
hell if she has an ok voice I would most certaintly gender her female if I see her know , with this appearance...
anyway,,,how many months is she on hrt?
Nothing to worry about,tidy up the eyebrows is all that's needed.
Eyebrows, makeup and female clothing and it would be hard for me to see anything other than female. I say full pass ability right now. You want honest, this is my honest opinion. :)
Your friend looks gorgeous. Just need to find the right style and your friend is on hour way to being full time.
She's cute! Already passes very well to me. Really doesn't look much different to the average cis girl not all done up. I actually think the 'extra weight' helps and the rounder cheeks are what give her a more female appearance. That's probably what puts her over into the female camp to me. Most guys don't have round faces like that unless they're really large.
your friend is way too hard on herself. She also could use a smile .HRT hasn't completed the sculpture. She needs to not worry about her looks . She'll do quite well
Your friend looks quite nice. From what I see she is already passing. Eye brows cleaned up a bit maybe but even without that she looks quite lovely. I'd say she is well on her way to being a beautiful young woman, you be sure to tell her that.
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on February 26, 2014, 03:53:57 PM
A friend of Yours? Yeah, right :D.
Looking good, LtL - indeed, looking good. Having read those previous posts... Indeed, we are worst critics of ourselves!
LOL, my thoughts exactly, especially regarding looking (very) good.
LTL, your 'friend' looks great and will pass with flying colors! :)
Totally not what I was expecting. Nose looks fine, eyebrows look fine. I think bangs are a good idea. Makeup would likely help, but I don't think its really necessary. Some pictures from the side might reveal something different, but I think from this angle your friend has no real issues. I would take her nose in a heartbeat.
If your friend goes through with any surgery I hope they are aware of the risks. Work on fixing a hairline for example can leave a large prominent scar for example.
If I were your friend, I would use this first stage to "find herself" with her style. When she reaches a point of comfort and after the HRT does its thang she'll know whats right for her
She looks quite nice. The shape of her face is feminine, and she's already pretty passable. If I really had to nitpick, I'd say she could use a bit more laser around the mustache, but it sounds like she's already working on that. Give that some time and she should be just fine.
That being said, she has some dark circles around her eyes. Is she getting enough sleep?
Everybody is being really nice and it means a lot! :)
May I ask though, is this really what you feel? Because I really don't see what others are seeing. I do think there is potential, but I feel I'm not at that point yet or even close to it. I mean I look very different with makeup and the right style on (a lot better), but I feel like my core appearance still needs a lot of work (nose job, needs bangs, more laser and time on hrt). That's why I put up photos to see where I am. Maybe I just really do have a poor self image and that's why I can't see anything good. I just feel like more work is needed and I'm still in rough shape. However, I'm glad I'm not a lost cause because that's what I feel like sometimes.
Quote from: FalsePrincess on February 26, 2014, 03:48:07 PM
;)
Ok so If I was that girl Id definately get straight bangs...or any type of bangs to hide the forehead,,,I do it too...
Also her eyebrows need a little work and a bit of make up should help too...
I didnt really noticed the nose until you said that its hideous,,,but yeah a nose job would be nice,,,but it isnt that mandatory I believe...
I mean she could definately pass with it...
Overall dear I really think that she looks really nice , there are only minor flaws to fix and then she d be able to go full time for sure...
hell if she has an ok voice I would most certaintly gender her female if I see her know , with this appearance...
anyway,,,how many months is she on hrt?
Well I've been on hrt since June, but the latest dose increase was in October. Since then, there has been a lot of change which didn't really occur previously to that point. I look very different from then and keep changing, so that's why I feel holding it off may do some good. Yeah, I feel like the nose job and maybe wispy bangs will help big time. Without that, I still see a mannish face and feel like I'm not passing. Hell, this is what I mean by boymode, so I'm still not where I want to be.
As for the brows, believe me, you don't want to know what they used to look like. This is the best she could get them because the sides are asymmetrical and she needs to get them as closely aligned. I've come a long way.
And yes, I know I need a different style other than really baggy boy clothes, lol. I'm just uncomfortable with people seeing my chest when I am in boymode. I get stares and it's not always all that comfortable. That's why I need to wear this baggy stuff. Once I have an income again, it will be time for me to start up my new wardrobe and then I will start wearing the appropriate attire once I feel ready to go full time.
Quote from: JenSquid on February 26, 2014, 05:27:26 PM
She looks quite nice. The shape of her face is feminine, and she's already pretty passable. If I really had to nitpick, I'd say she could use a bit more laser around the mustache, but it sounds like she's already working on that. Give that some time and she should be just fine.
That being said, she has some dark circles around her eyes. Is she getting enough sleep?
I always have dark circles and major sleep issues. I've done everything to get rid of the circles and only concealer does the job.
Wait, these are pictures of you? I thought it was of your friend....;)
We are all not being nice, but truthful as you asked. I for one honestly see female. So up the confidence and self esteem a little, will you? :)
OK, here you go I'm going to be absolutely honest. You'll do fine. The other honest thing is that I don't know what caused your self image to get mangled like it has but there's no way you have the true perception of what you actually look like. I'm not in any way trying to be mean. It's just that what you tell us about how you perceive your self just doesn't jive with our objective view of you. You'll do fine.
I was going to post that this person should have no troubles at all, assuming she has the right attitude and confidence..
Then I discover she doesn't.
Yeah, a change in hairstyle wouldn't hurt, maybe some eyebrow work, but apart from that, can I have your face?
We may have to fight over that face, Kelly.
LtL, so cute!
It's always the hot ones who have the biggest issues with their apperances! The only negative I can see is a tiny five o'clock shadow, everything else looks perfectly fine. I don't think her nose is big at all and I definitely don't see how she thinks she's fat. Tell your friend to go take some pics all dressed up and made up, she'd be a total hottie then, 10/10! Go on, tell her make us all jealous!
Thanks everyone!
You know, maybe I really am not seeing things for what they are. I just always thought I looked ugly and manly. To my own eyes, I'm not close to passing, but maybe I'm being way to hard on myself like usual. Well, the good news is if I keep making progress that I can only get better than this. So maybe full time will go much easier for me then I'm thinking. Still feel like I have some more work to do, but I'm going to work on my self esteem.
I think a little bit of makeup and handling what appears to be a wee bit of mustache shadow, and you'll be a knockout, you're already super cute. Looking at these pictures, I'd take you to be a cis lesbian, honestly.
Your friend is looking good imho and well on her way to womanhood. ;)
ltl, I am going to give you a friendly reminder.
You are aiming at the impossible: 100% passing from day ONE of going full time.
June 3rd Male 100%
June 4th D-DAY (D as "donna", woman in Italian) 100% female.
This is really improbable. No matter how feminine you are. Are you aware of that?
ltl,
It sounds like you may be starting to realize this, but the biggest thing you can do to help yourself right now is to work in your self esteem. No amount of HRT, surgery, makeup hair or anything for that matter can compensate for self esteem.
The thing of it is, the opposite is not true. Self esteem can at times eliminate the need for surgery. :)
I think it's fitting that you started by posting this as being a friend. That's exactly what you need to do. Start being a friend to yourself and then you will be able to see your natural beauty and femininity for yourself.
Quote from: learningtolive on February 26, 2014, 06:21:17 PM
Thanks everyone!
You know, maybe I really am not seeing things for what they are. I just always thought I looked ugly and manly. To my own eyes, I'm not close to passing, but maybe I'm being way to hard on myself like usual. Well, the good news is if I keep making progress that I can only get better than this. So maybe full time will go much easier for me then I'm thinking. Still feel like I have some more work to do, but I'm going to work on my self esteem.
It's such a shame that it's something so many of us struggle with, regardless of our "passability." This is certainly where confidence plays such a major role with sucessfully transitioning, IMO.
Quote from: big kim on February 26, 2014, 04:02:06 PM
Nothing to worry about,tidy up the eyebrows is all that's needed.
This! Your friend is already very feminine looking, and hrt will continue to do her wonders. And those eyes. So pretty!
Now, go work on that self-esteem!
You already look good in androgenous Mode totaly feminine features as was previously stated. girl give us some pics dressed and made up and we will all be scratching your eyes out LOL
I honestly think she can pass as she is. But I think a straight fringe could help with the insecurity about the forehead. She looks just like any average girl out there without make up. Chin up and keep smiling :) All the girls here who have been on hormones for years says it only gets better :D
I agree with what everyone has said. You have a beautiful face, that's only going to get more lovely with HRT. If you go to the before and after page you'll see what I started out with and how my face developed through HRT. Objectively, I think your pre-HRT face is even more feminine than mine. Though your nose is bigger, your jaw is super-feminine and you have no brow ridge!
I used to *obsess* about how prominent my brow ridge is, how masculine my jawline is, and how low my voice is (I'm a natural baritone). But you know what's funny? People compliment me on a regular basis on my "strong" features and guys have praised my low, sultry voice. You're not just body parts, you're a whole person and people aren't going to look at you as a hairline or a nose. They'll look at all of you and the best way for them to see what's beautiful in you is for you to see what's beautiful in yourself.
Looking back, I was really lucky to have transitioned in a super-supportive environment, around people who helped and reassured me. Reach out to friends who can maybe help you through this.
Pathetic as it was, as someone who was mainly attracted to men, going out on pseudo-dates with my attractive male friends helped a lot to boost my self-esteem. I remember going out with my friend James to our favorite Vietnamese restaurant and they would serve us dessert on heart-shaped plates, clearly thinking we're a couple. Even if it weren't actually the case, the fact that other people saw the possibility of James and I being together really boosted my self-esteem.
Also really funny was the fact that my pseudo-dates with my friend Dave ended up turning into real dates and we ended up being together for a little while... he's the only person I've slept with both before and after transition. He's still one of my best friends. So yes, as much as self-esteem comes from within it helps to be able to see yourself as desirable by other people, and having supportive friends can facilitate that.
At first I though: "LtL is being really rude with her friend". The way you described her nose made me think I was going to see the feminine version of Donald Duck on those pics! And when I saw her pics and I even started to feel offended for her, because she is looking cute and very passable! She is looking really fine! I'd be happy if I could have her nose or a long hair as nice as hers! And then I realized that I think I know your friend here from the forums ;D
I don't think your nose (sorry, HER nose ;)) have any problem. Perhaps on other angles, but from those pics it looks a really average nose for me. Not masculine at all.
The hairline might be a bit high, but she is very lucky to have a nice looking hair! I think that if she divided her hair on the middle she would look even more cute! The hairline is not a problem, with your hair you don't need to worry.
And she have a very feminine face shape! That's unquestionable! And pretty big eyes too!
Besides that, regardless of going full time now or later, HRT will keep doing its job. Give time to time and stop being so critic! You pass already girl!
Quote from: learningtolive on February 26, 2014, 03:38:44 PM
she is looking to hear honest opinions that are done in a considerate manner.
I dont really unterstand what the problem is. Hot lips and eyebrows which I would kill to have. And with a little mascara your eyes will be hypnotizing many boys.
Only "problem" I see is the forehead. But I know a cisgirl with the same type of forehead and she wears her hair as pony tail and I would never assume or even suspect she'd be trans.
I'd swap my body with your's at any time.
I can't add to what has already been said by others; a little laser on the top lip and some eyebrow and makeup work might help a little, but I see a girl there in those pictures. Your chin is quite feminine as is your face shape, and you have nice lips.
All I can say that doesnt echo what everyone else says is this: I WISH i looked like that.
**Warning, I will not BS you at all. Do not read this if you don't want to know my actual opinion because, I'm... well... me.**
Bwa ha ha. Nice try on the 'my friend' thing... ::)
Anyway, brutal truth is that you're 'okay'. Not great, not bad. You've got a nice facial shape, a nice chin, and when you actually have your hair in the right way, you look pretty cute. You've got nice eyes (which would, as most girls, benefit from mascara/eyeliner) and your mouth shape is adorable.
The HRT is doing its thing and it'll get much, much better over time. After a couple more years, you won't recognize yourself. Complete your laser treatment and you'll definitely have a better time seeing yourself as yourself.
That said, you have some challenges. You have a fairly low arch around your inner brow which is, at times, an issue. Your nose is also shaped broadly and thus, rhinoplasty might be a good option for you (but really, wait for a couple of years for HRT to do its thing). The five-head is a definite issue. If you had hair before and started losing it early, hair-restorative might be a good option. No, you can't get bangs; they'll look horrible on you (they look good on very, very few chicks). There might be a better hairstyle for you but, really, just longer would be better at this point. Go see a stylist, talk to him/her about what's up with you and trust their opinion (if you can't tell your stylist about your stuff, you need a different stylist.) Five-heads (the joke is that you can put your whole hand between your brow and hairline) tend to wear hair longer or bigger. My fiancé has a five-head and she just manages it with long swoops of hair.
Get your damned brows done. Pronto.
Also, don't lose *too* much weight. Your cheeks are pretty wide and if you get too small, your facial structure won't do you much good..
If all you're worried about is 'passability' though, you'll be fine. You won't be a knockout until you really get some of your issues handled (hairline) but you'll be a very passable, if plain, chick.
P.S. - Don't take down-angle shots. Do straight on or we'll be seeing the lighting rather than the face.
I can go on and on and on but this is the basic stuff. You're doing fine, kiddo. Just hang in there, learn to get the eff over yourself, and start playing around with makeup while you go through the rest of your transition stuff.
*mwa*
Hi learningtolive,
I understand your feelings about seeing way too much guy when you look in the mirror, and feeling completely unable to pass, likely being too hard on yourself; I couldn't relate to this more. With that said, I do think your current photos are pretty darn passable, but I'd like to share some further thoughts.
Each photo is taken at the same angle. In particular, a slightly top-down angle and from the front. This makes it difficult to see the depth of your nose, chin or brow bone, as well as the length and depth of your philtrum, which can play a large role in passableness when someone is viewing your profile.
From reading your other posts, I think you have a pretty good head on your shoulders, if a bit too worried now and then. My guess is that you have a solid idea of what it is you need to do; I agree that your nose may need some work, but generally that also comes with forehead or orbital work because of the way a nose is set and attached to a forehead. Even if you do find you need surgery to be completely passable, I think your facial palette is very promising and you would have stellar results.
Thanks everyone. Don't feel bad about saying what you feel. Believe me, the "worst" response to my pictures are a million times better than what I thought the best were going to be. I'm still early in the game. I have a lot more work to do in many ways and in no way hope for these pictures to represent my possible final outcome. Just want to make sure I do have potential to pass. If I do, then everything else can be worked on along the way.
The nose job is necessary for me. I'm getting that done asap because it makes me feel really uncomfortable. Even if I could pass with it, the nose just really hurts my self image.
Yeah, my brows need more work, but they are a huge improvement from where I started. I'm still learning how to do these things. Honestly, I've messed up so much in the past that I'm a little tentative to be too experimental. One of my friends shaped it for me and I'm keeping it maintained for now. Once I get the courage to get my hair styled, I'll make sure to deal with the brows as well.
I hate my forehead, so that's why I've always assumed wispy bangs would be my best bet. Right now, I do a side part approach rather than a center part because it demphasizes the nose. From what I hear, bangs can create an illusion of a smaller nose. I figure that would kill two birds with one stone when considering the forehead and nose. If anyone has any other suggestions for hair styles I should try, I'm all ears.
And again, thanks to everyone for saying all these nice things. I'm not used to hearing good things about my appearance. It's just a bit shocking and foreign to me, so I'm still not sure how to process it. However, it's really nice to hear and you all made my week. :)
Quote from: Marina mtf on February 26, 2014, 11:49:51 PM
ltl, I am going to give you a friendly reminder.
You are aiming at the impossible: 100% passing from day ONE of going full time.
June 3rd Male 100%
June 4th D-DAY (D as "donna", woman in Italian) 100% female.
This is really improbable. No matter how feminine you are. Are you aware of that?
Yeah, I realize my ideal fantasy isn't going to be reality. Still, I want to do everything I can to pass in the best capacity I can obtain. There is no way for me to avoid the clunky starting period. However, I'm learning as I go and making improvements. Hopefully, I can only get better from here because my flaws are very visible to me. But even if I can pass appearance wise, I can't erase my past. People will know and I can't change the fact that I'm trans. It's hard for me to deal with that, but I'm learning how to handle it. I suppose it's just something I will have to get through in order to get to where I want to be. I'm very very scared, but I'm also trying. I just hope I can keep it hidden for the most part, just in case because of transphobia and all that.
Quote from: mandonlym on February 27, 2014, 05:09:44 AM
I agree with what everyone has said. You have a beautiful face, that's only going to get more lovely with HRT. If you go to the before and after page you'll see what I started out with and how my face developed through HRT. Objectively, I think your pre-HRT face is even more feminine than mine. Though your nose is bigger, your jaw is super-feminine and you have no brow ridge!
I used to *obsess* about how prominent my brow ridge is, how masculine my jawline is, and how low my voice is (I'm a natural baritone). But you know what's funny? People compliment me on a regular basis on my "strong" features and guys have praised my low, sultry voice. You're not just body parts, you're a whole person and people aren't going to look at you as a hairline or a nose. They'll look at all of you and the best way for them to see what's beautiful in you is for you to see what's beautiful in yourself.
Looking back, I was really lucky to have transitioned in a super-supportive environment, around people who helped and reassured me. Reach out to friends who can maybe help you through this.
Pathetic as it was, as someone who was mainly attracted to men, going out on pseudo-dates with my attractive male friends helped a lot to boost my self-esteem. I remember going out with my friend James to our favorite Vietnamese restaurant and they would serve us dessert on heart-shaped plates, clearly thinking we're a couple. Even if it weren't actually the case, the fact that other people saw the possibility of James and I being together really boosted my self-esteem.
Also really funny was the fact that my pseudo-dates with my friend Dave ended up turning into real dates and we ended up being together for a little while... he's the only person I've slept with both before and after transition. He's still one of my best friends. So yes, as much as self-esteem comes from within it helps to be able to see yourself as desirable by other people, and having supportive friends can facilitate that.
Yeah, I have a pretty poor social life as of now. I have some great friends that I love, but I don't really like reaching out all the time. Hell, I only feel comfortable reaching out to a select few, so this is something I will need to improve. I just figured I wouldn't start working more on my social life and meeting new people until I go full time. There is no point making a bunch of new friends only to have to tell them that I'm a transexual. Definitely a conversation I want to avoid having if possible.
As for dating, sadly that's non-existent in my life. I can't really imagine a guy ever falling for someone like me. And because I'm still in gender andro limbo, I really don't know how to go about it. Do I try to date gay guys? Obviously they won't like me. Do I date straight guys? They wouldn't be into me as I am. It's complicated which sucks because I really would like to finally open myself up to it. Then again, I have so much to work on myself that getting involved with another person could be a big mistake.
you can go to lgbt friendly bars and events just to mingle and talk to people and not worry about dating
Yeahhhh. Don't date. Too early, luv. Try establishing a life and at least see if you can feel normal 'most' of the time before trying out all the crazy of the dating world.
Quote from: learningtolive on February 27, 2014, 12:12:29 PM
I'm not used to hearing good things about my appearance.
As you don't look clearly male any more that's no surprise to me. You don't fit into the "male world" nor try to but don't look clearly female nor present as one. That's devastating to "appearance". Humans want a clear shot so as long as you don't fit into neither world, you're always appearing strange. You might wonder about how much that might change when you start presenting female and trying to fit in (and thus giving a clear shot).
Yes, indeed.
the world needs ones and zeroes, M or F.
Staying neutral, it's sound strange, but augment the fear. From my little perspective of
a little Italian town... people, the "normal people" are more kind, secure and understanding
if they see a person who, maybe without too much passing, but it is clearly on a side
and it is clear that, if she does not pass, is not her "fault", but the Testostorene-past.
A person who wants to be bi-gender, fluid, whatever... has more challenges, imho.
Quote from: Marina mtf on February 28, 2014, 04:49:19 AM
Yes, indeed.
the world needs ones and zeroes, M or F.
Staying neutral, it's sound strange, but augment the fear. From my little perspective of
a little Italian town... people, the "normal people" are more kind, secure and understanding
if they see a person who, maybe without too much passing, but it is clearly on a side
and it is clear that, if she does not pass, is not her "fault", but the Testostorene-past.
A person who wants to be bi-gender, fluid, whatever... has more challenges, imho.
Thats kinda true ,,, yet in the right place noone faces challenges because of their looks,,,
Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on February 27, 2014, 02:26:00 PM
Yeahhhh. Don't date. Too early, luv. Try establishing a life and at least see if you can feel normal 'most' of the time before trying out all the crazy of the dating world.
Yeah, I know you are right. First I have to work on me before I could ever really get involved with someone else. It just sucks being so old and never allowing myself a love life.
Quote from: Pia Bianca on February 28, 2014, 04:36:54 AM
As you don't look clearly male any more that's no surprise to me. You don't fit into the "male world" nor try to but don't look clearly female nor present as one. That's devastating to "appearance". Humans want a clear shot so as long as you don't fit into neither world, you're always appearing strange. You might wonder about how much that might change when you start presenting female and trying to fit in (and thus giving a clear shot).
It's funny but I never felt like I fit into the male world, lol. I don't know, we'll see how it goes, but I've been getting more compliments on my hair from other women which is nice. Though most people are just confused or they give me a big smile that says I know what's going on. It sucks.
Quote from: Marina mtf on February 28, 2014, 04:49:19 AM
Yes, indeed.
the world needs ones and zeroes, M or F.
Staying neutral, it's sound strange, but augment the fear. From my little perspective of
a little Italian town... people, the "normal people" are more kind, secure and understanding
if they see a person who, maybe without too much passing, but it is clearly on a side
and it is clear that, if she does not pass, is not her "fault", but the Testostorene-past.
A person who wants to be bi-gender, fluid, whatever... has more challenges, imho.
Yeah, I think people are taken aback by my appearance. I'm still going out as a boy like this, so I confuse the hell out of people quite often. I'm in gender limbo at this point and don't know what to do. Eh, sooner or later I can go full time.
By the way, I've been in Italy and loved it, but I always hear that there is still prevailing sexism? How do you feel about that? Sometimes I just dream about moving there and starting my life over, but that probably isn't realistic, lol.
last one looks the best to me as far as the pics go, but we all know that nobody looks great before they go to bed, or after they get up. Stress does not help any either. Just tell her to keep calm and maybe a tad bit of concealer for some problem areas, but other than that if you did not tell me I would not have known. Also don't forget that voice is more important than most things. Make sure she works on that.
I think she is pretty :)
Quote from: learningtolive on February 28, 2014, 11:52:55 AM
Yeah, I know you are right. First I have to work on me before I could ever really get involved with someone else. It just sucks being so old and never allowing myself a love life.
Just to clarify I was advocating going on date-type like things with people as practice / self-esteem boost. For me, being seen in those contexts really helped me socialize as a woman. The ending up in a relationship thing was more of an accident!
I know I'm late to this thread but you're really quite pretty and have a nice smile.