Mmy biggest regret is not transitioning during my early childhood because i didn't know how my mom would've taken me wanting to be a girl.
But here i am now still afraid to take that first big step to free myself (scheduling the appointment at the Mazzoni Center). I an going to start HRT later this year one way or another but i can't help the thought in the back of my mind that 23 is a little late to transition. I know people a lot older than me transition at a later age but the younger you start the better.
I just utterly hate that I'll never be able to have a female pelvic bone and breasts without implants whereas i could've had those things had i started prepuberty. Ugh.
Chances are you wouldn't have been put on estrogen until late adolescence as that seems to be the practice at the moment. Blockers yes, hormone replacement no. Even more likely to be the case ten years ago. Yes, you are not too old (gosh others start at more than twice your age (like me!))...don't hold off any longer or you'll be wondering if you're too old at 30 (again, no).
23?!
Oh, you will be fine.
I didn't begin my transition until I was 30. Don't worry about it.
Exactly , even If you had the courage to come out lets say on 14 they wouldnt give you hormones,,,
"too young to know" theyd say...
cases in which kids take hormones on 12 are extremely rare...
so the youngest you d be able to start is 16/17 which is rare too...
and by that age you wouldnt have been different than you are now...
my bro is 17 im 19 and he is waaay more masculine than me...
genetics play role...
you shouldnt give up you are still young
Many of us started at a much later age and turned out fine. What you have is wishful thinking which will get you nowhere.
Yeah, and I keep hitting my head for not having started ten years earlier at 20. When you know, you know. And at that time, there was not that much information or a social security service to treat it.
Felt the same way before I started to transition. 23 isn't to old. You will have female breast and a female pelvic bone because you are a young woman. Might not be the "hourglass" look but let's be honest that is rarer then people make it out to be. Everyone is shaped differently. I'm sure a lot of us wish we could've started earlier in life no matter when we start. Don't be afraid of being who you are and who you need to be. Life is too short to be afraid, take the first step and every one after that is easier than the last.
I need to jump in here and i'll probably be the buzz kill everyone hates.
IF YOU CAN GO TROUGH LIFE AND NOT TRANSITION, THEN DONT!!!!
I was in my mid 40's when I started. i was never strong enough to do it when younger but one day i just couldn't do it any more. I knew I might lose everything, become the circus freak and never fit in. It didnt matter.
My point is this, if you can live as you are then do nothing but if you must do it, age does not matter because once you are yourself the concept of "passing" goes away.
One last comment, even the movie stars get pictures photoshopped. Almost impossible to have one of those bodies or faces for real....
Quote from: Boca.Lisa on March 03, 2014, 10:40:09 AM
IF YOU CAN GO TROUGH LIFE AND NOT TRANSITION, THEN DONT!!!!
Why is that?
Quote from: Boca.Lisa on March 03, 2014, 10:40:09 AM
I need to jump in here and i'll probably be the buzz kill everyone hates.
IF YOU CAN GO TROUGH LIFE AND NOT TRANSITION, THEN DONT!!
I don't see it as being a buzzkill at all. I've seen this repeated on this forum many times in the several years that I have been here. Hell, it is certainly a lot cheaper, that's for sure.
But for some people that just isn't the case.
However, I applaud anyone that can get through all of this and not have to do it. It's a pretty gutsy move. So is transitioning, but it's really just two sides of the same coin: Heads you do it, Tails you don't.
I'm fairly certain I can go through life without transitioning. I won't be happy. But being happy doesn't mean life or death.
Quote from: Laura Squirrel on March 03, 2014, 10:46:33 AM
I don't see it as being a buzzkill at all. I've seen this repeated on this forum many times in the several years that I have been here. Hell, it is certainly a lot cheaper, that's for sure.
But for some people that just isn't the case.
However, I applaud anyone that can get through all of this and not have to do it. It's a pretty gutsy move. So is transitioning, but it's really just two sides of the same coin: Heads you do it, Tails you don't.
Yes, I thought I could go through life without transitioning...turns out no I couldn't! :)
Quote from: Caysee Danielle on March 03, 2014, 10:57:55 AM
I'm fairly certain I can go through life without transitioning. I won't be happy. But being happy doesn't mean life or death.
I couldn't do it. Plus, the idea of living my life being miserable would just fuel my desire to end it. Hell, what's the point of living if you are miserable all of the time?
I can't wrap my head around that idea.
Quote from: Ms Grace on March 03, 2014, 11:09:17 AM
Yes, I thought I could go through life without transitioning...turns out no I couldn't! :)
Same here.
I'm glad that I did and I don't regret it.
I always thought I could cope. I did the classic over compensation US Marines, Football, Weight Lifting, Marriage, Kids....always just "chased it away" until one day I couldn't hide any more. Transitioning cost me my relationship with my children, my job and hurt many people I loved. If I could have spared those people the pain I would have....I couldn't.
Its not that we are not going to be happy if dont transition though...
Its that we are going to be extremely sad ...
I couldnt stand being sad forever...
Remeber that if dysphoria is something that makes you sad every moment, it wont go away, never...
so better transition than live a fake sad life...
I guess
I started at 23... It hasn't been perfect by any means (I'm still 5'11", for a start) but I would be highly surprised if your age was a prime determinant for hip and breast growth. (Speaking as a girl blessed with rather nice measurements in both areas 14 months in)
That said... Don't start transition for a desired end result of physical beauty. So many times it just won't happen, and even when it does the stress of maintaining stealth can lead to disappointment and unhappiness.
Transition to be someone; not to be something. Anything less is courting disaster.
23? Count yourself among the lucky.
Quote from: Ms Grace on March 03, 2014, 12:39:23 AM
Chances are you wouldn't have been put on estrogen until late adolescence as that seems to be the practice at the moment. Blockers yes, hormone replacement no. Even more likely to be the case ten years ago. Yes, you are not too old (gosh others start at more than twice your age (like me!))...don't hold off any longer or you'll be wondering if you're too old at 30 (again, no).
What!? You are over 46?
*wipes eyes*
I don't believe you. I hope I look that good in my 40s!
Quote from: Ms Grace on March 03, 2014, 11:09:17 AM
Yes, I thought I could go through life without transitioning...turns out no I couldn't! :)
Yes, it seems you can only be certain you can go without transition once you're 6' under!
Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on March 03, 2014, 12:04:59 AM
Mmy biggest regret is not transitioning during my early childhood because i didn't know how my mom would've taken me wanting to be a girl.
But here i am now still afraid to take that first big step to free myself (scheduling the appointment at the Mazzoni Center). I an going to start HRT later this year one way or another but i can't help the thought in the back of my mind that 23 is a little late to transition. I know people a lot older than me transition at a later age but the younger you start the better.
I just utterly hate that I'll never be able to have a female pelvic bone and breasts without implants whereas i could've had those things had i started prepuberty. Ugh.
Seems like a pretty common regret. :(
Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 03, 2014, 12:17:27 PM
Its not that we are not going to be happy if dont transition though...
Its that we are going to be extremely sad ...
I couldnt stand being sad forever...
This...
Quote from: ZoeM on March 03, 2014, 12:51:08 PM
Transition to be someone; not to be something. Anything less is courting disaster.
...and this! Beautiful! Thanks!
Quote from: FilaFord on March 03, 2014, 01:29:29 PM
What!? You are over 46?
*wipes eyes*
I don't believe you. I hope I look that good in my 40s!
48 this Friday... :)
Just look after yourself and there's a good chance you will...
You don't have to look like a perfect woman to be a great woman. While it's never too late, be glad you're doing it now. Not because of age or phys development but because you want it and you're doing it.
Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on March 03, 2014, 12:04:59 AM
i can't help the thought in the back of my mind that 23 is a little late to transition.
I started HRT at 47 years old. This photo was only a few months into it. :)
I started at 32 and am 42DDD all natural... and wish I'd thought of it at 23. ;) There are tons and tons of women who started post-puberty with natural breasts! The pelvis thing sucks (bothers me, too), but most people don't have X-ray vision. If you end up with a nice female figure, and I bet you will, no one will be thinking about specific distinctions in the pelvic bone.
Good luck!
I understand the feeling. I started hormones at 24 and kept having those very same thoughts. Now that I'm 25 and more into my transition, I'm more comfortable that I'll make it to where I want to be in time. Still, I have major fears and concerns about how well I'll pass as of right now. From what I'm starting to see, we really are our biggest critics and most people don't zoom in on our "flaws" in the same way that we do. Honestly, 23 isn't too late and you probably shouldn't worry too much about it if this is what you want. Good luck! :)
Quote from: Ms Grace on March 03, 2014, 02:19:38 PM48 this Friday... :)
Happy early birthday.
Quote from: sagitilicious on March 03, 2014, 02:26:53 PM
You don't have to look like a perfect woman to be a great woman. While it's never too late, be glad you're doing it now. Not because of age or phys development but because you want it and you're doing it.
Amen! Because quite frankly, I've spent long enough in the prison that is a body of a gender that is not mine.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on March 03, 2014, 05:08:09 PM
I started at 32 and am 42DDD all natural... and wish I'd thought of it at 23. ;) There are tons and tons of women who started post-puberty with natural breasts! The pelvis thing sucks (bothers me, too), but most people don't have X-ray vision. If you end up with a nice female figure, and I bet you will, no one will be thinking about specific distinctions in the pelvic bone.
Good luck!
Bloody hell! You have awesome genetics! You're kidding right? All natural 42ddds and you transitioned at 32? I dream of having 36ddd's... all natural! I guess anything really is possible after all!
I mean sure, the pelvis thing people aren't going to pay much attention too but it's a part of being female and I still want big hips without having to resort to implants. Plus, when genetic women walk, I notice their butts go up and down, I bet because of the female pelvic bone. I want mine to do that when I walk.
Quote from: learningtolive on March 03, 2014, 05:57:45 PM
I understand the feeling. I started hormones at 24 and kept having those very same thoughts. Now that I'm 25 and more into my transition, I'm more comfortable that I'll make it to where I want to be in time. Still, I have major fears and concerns about how well I'll pass as of right now. From what I'm starting to see, we really are our biggest critics and most people don't zoom in on our "flaws" in the same way that we do. Honestly, 23 isn't too late and you probably shouldn't worry too much about it if this is what you want. Good luck! :)
Oh, this is what I want. This is the path that I'm destined to take and I will. As I've said to another member, I've spent long enough in a body that isn't mine. I've wanted to transition years ago, much more right now.
Quote from: ZoeM on March 03, 2014, 12:51:08 PM
I started at 23... It hasn't been perfect by any means (I'm still 5'11", for a start) but I would be highly surprised if your age was a prime determinant for hip and breast growth. (Speaking as a girl blessed with rather nice measurements in both areas 14 months in)
That said... Don't start transition for a desired end result of physical beauty. So many times it just won't happen, and even when it does the stress of maintaining stealth can lead to disappointment and unhappiness.
Transition to be someone; not to be something. Anything less is courting disaster.
Oh, you don't have to worry about that! I'm not transitioning for those reasons. I'm transitioning because I should've been born a girl to begin with. And you're lucky in the height department. I'm 6 feet. Oh, what I wouldn't give to be 5 foot 3. You look 100% passable in your avatar by the way, provided that's you. I would've never guessed. That's why I won't tell people I'm trans... or at least tell as very few people as possible.
Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 03, 2014, 12:17:27 PM
Its not that we are not going to be happy if dont transition though...
Its that we are going to be extremely sad ...
I couldn't stand being sad forever...
Remember that if dysphoria is something that makes you sad every moment, it wont go away, never...
so better transition than live a fake sad life...
I guess
Sometimes I would get "Oh, you still won't be able to have a baby," or "your genetics and bone structure are still gonna say you're male," blah-blah-blah. Well, I still have the "at least I will be interpreted by the world as female, provided I pass as one," riposte.
I'd hands down rather live the rest of my life as a trans girl than not a girl at all and live the rest of my life being male. But that's just me...
Quote from: Ms Grace on March 03, 2014, 12:39:23 AM
Chances are you wouldn't have been put on estrogen until late adolescence as that seems to be the practice at the moment. Blockers yes, hormone replacement no. Even more likely to be the case ten years ago. Yes, you are not too old (gosh others start at more than twice your age (like me!))...don't hold off any longer or you'll be wondering if you're too old at 30 (again, no).
I guess it's not too late. I've heard about someone transitioning as late as their 70's or 80's or something! No, I really have, though I don't remember the exact age. But I wonder how she looks now.
Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 03, 2014, 04:24:59 AM
Exactly , even If you had the courage to come out lets say on 14 they wouldnt give you hormones,,,
"too young to know" theyd say...
cases in which kids take hormones on 12 are extremely rare...
so the youngest you d be able to start is 16/17 which is rare too...
and by that age you wouldn't have been different than you are now...
my bro is 17 im 19 and he is waaay more masculine than me...
genetics play role...
you shouldn't give up you are still young
Funny you should say the first sentence. I didn't come out but my mom
found me out at 14.
Quote from: Hayley on March 03, 2014, 05:31:17 AM
Felt the same way before I started to transition. 23 isn't to old. You will have female breast and a female pelvic bone because you are a young woman. Might not be the "hourglass" look but let's be honest that is rarer then people make it out to be. Everyone is shaped differently. I'm sure a lot of us wish we could've started earlier in life no matter when we start. Don't be afraid of being who you are and who you need to be. Life is too short to be afraid, take the first step and every one after that is easier than the last.
Yeah... if only I had the courage to call the Mazzoni Center in Philadelphia.
I do know 23 is kind of young and I really didn't mean to troll or anything it's just that I keep hearing the younger you start the better and the more prone you will be to passing as female (or male for trans boys). Though I'm not on hormones yet I am working on my voice so then when I actually start my bodily transition I'll have some progress with my voice instead of worrying "Oh s**t! My voice doesn't pass!"
Yes, I got lucky with genetics, but I also know of very, very few trans women who got NO breast development at all. The majority of those who go for breast augmentation do so b/c their breasts are smaller than they wanted or don't fit their frame, much like cis women. Which you might as well; there are no guarantees. But you should get *something* by way of homegrown breasts.
As for the hips... what counts as hips in fashion measurements is actually the very upper thigh (which fat distribution on HRT will take care of), and that bobbing butt and swaying walk are also mostly products of fat. I found that with the new bigger butt and boobs, I pretty naturally stand with a more female pelvic tilt and have that bouncing butt look without trying. Yes, having a female pelvis shape *helps,* and cis women have their hip and knee joints more angled relative to each other than a male pelvis will allow. However, most people won't be able to tell the difference by looking. You should be fine. :)
The voice is the one thing I regret about not transitioning pre-puberty...
Quote from: LordKAT on March 03, 2014, 04:46:36 AM
Many of us started at a much later age and turned out fine. What you have is wishful thinking which will get you nowhere.
^This^ Playing the "what if" game never ends well. You can only move forward. I started at 43 and no longer wish to hasten my expiration date so I can finally enjoy life to the fullest.
AnnaiyahStarr, really, 23 is a wonderfully young age to do this, if you know in your heart that it's the right thing for you! Find an equilibrium that works for you, and, most of all, be happy and positive even while you fix the things you need to fix.
I'm in my mid-40s, and should have transitioned 20 years ago but was too scared. Now is the right time for me, but I do sometimes regret not having had the strength to do it when I was younger. On the other hand, I have had a life rich in experiences as a man, and I don't regret those, but from now on I want to experience my time as a woman.
Hugs
Julia
Quote from: Jenna Marie on March 04, 2014, 05:15:13 PM
The voice is the one thing I regret about not transitioning pre-puberty...
The voice can be worked on. You just need to put in the (a lot of) time and the effort.
Laura : Thanks, by now I know that. :) Actually, that's my complaint - it took probably hundreds of hours of work to get my voice to this point! (I've been gendered correctly even on the phone since about a year into transition, and by now I even cough/laugh/scream female, but WOW was that a lot of work.)
I'm 27, and 5ยด11. And for a while, I thought the same thing. It's too late now, why didn't I start in my early twenties? Haha. But then I realized I started now because this is when it finally worked for me. When I hit the point of knowing fully that I needed to be myself, and hit a point in my life where mentally, I was able to prioritize that over fear of the stigma, or anxiety over what friends and family would say. But in the time I've been reading these boards, I've seen more and more gorgeous and, even more importantly, happy women who started around my age and often much later, and it's effing inspiring.
QuoteThe voice can be worked on. You just need to put in the (a lot of) time and the effort.
Totally agree. For a lot of us, it's less a question of pitch than a question of music. And listening!
What I'm doing is listening to women newsreaders or presenters on the radio (BBC radio 4 is great for this. TV is also good!) and repeating their intonation. It's also really really useful to record yourself and listen to how you would normally deal with intonation, and then try the newsreader's version. Sounds a bit freaky at first...
What I find difficult is that with people I know, I tend to drop into my standard male range - it's not so easy to unlearn that.
xxx
J
I wish I could have begun before 30, I was in my mid forties, and I'm finally having surgery. I must admit, I wonder sometimes if I'm too old for surgery, but I still feel I need to. I wish I could have made it without having to transition, but it got to the point that I could no longer continue as things were.
I'm 26, and while I have only really been transitioning for 4 months now, I often get the regretful feelings or thoughts of wishing I had transitioned earlier.
But I think almost every trans person has felt this at some time, it's only natural and comes with the territory.
See...I look at it like this...(armchair sociology/psychology incoming)
My Hair-brained Analysis of Where we go Wrong
If a woman grows up, and is not a perfect 10 looks wise, she will often feel down about it or have some self confidence issues. But nowadays, society increasingly tells her that "that's just the way you are","that's just the way you were born","Be proud of the natural you!".
So much of female culture nowadays is focused towards accepting the "real you" or the "natural you", cosmetic surgery is frowned upon and done in secret, airbrushing is a dirty word, even changing your name to be more appealing is looked at with condescension. And all along, the woman are told "Don't worry, it's not your fault you look the way you do, it's the world and the media that is broken, you are beautiful just the way you are." Acceptance of ones natural self is allot easier for in this mindset.
On the other hand, our problem is that we often have thoughts like "I would have looked better if I transitioned earlier" or "Oh god I really ->-bleeped-<-ed myself up looks wise by waiting so long". It's the aspect of the unknown, the unrealised potential, that hurts us and messes with our heads so much.
In this situation we feel like we have done something really bad to ourselves, we have ruined our bodies, or at least severely damage our prospects. Instead of being able to rely on the standard media messages of "it's just the way you are","It's not your fault","Be the natural you" we feel very personally responsible for the way we look, we hate the "natural you" and try to hide and or change it as much as possible, because we "know" it is our fault we look that way.
The difference in my opinion is blame.
We normally blame ourselves for the way we look on the outside, rather than most Cis women out there who blame nature or other outside forces for their downfalls.
My Coping Method
With this in mind, I have twisted this logic around in my head in an attempt to turn it into a positive force, rather than a negative one, by applying a degree of challenge to it! :D
The way I see it. If you can transition at a "late age" (whatever your opinion of that is) and look good, not even super model or movie star good, just run of the mill "Hey you look nice" good, that accomplishment is worth SO much more to a trans person than to a Cis woman.
We have so little we can rely on naturally to help look good. You have to literally fight clothing manufacturers, social constraints, lack of experience and a thousand other things, even your very genetics, every single day, just to look good, or at least passable.
In my eyes, if you can do that, hell, you can do anything :)
And in the future, every time you are looking at pictures or walking down a highstreet and see a Cis girl you look better than...well dayum, you have truly achieved something special.
Is it healthy? Probably not. Does is potentially breed an environment of negative reinforcement? Maybe...but In my opinion, our society as a whole is not designed to support trans feelings or struggles on a day to day basis, even standard self confidence building advice aimed towards women falls short of recognising the true problems we face...so we have to build our own logic or view the cultural norms in a unique way to live happily...
But that's just my way weird way of looking at it ;)
23? You are lucky - I'm doing it at 51.
Back when I was your age it would have been the perfect time for me to transition. I was physically small and femme looking but this was the 70's and no one knew what transgender meant. Unfortunately testosterone eventually had its way with me and ruined that opportunity.
At 23 your whole life is still before you; the effects of testosterone can still be mostly reversed. HRT is going to do wonderful things for you my dear.
Quote from: Eva Marie on March 24, 2014, 11:34:22 AM
23? You are lucky - I'm doing it at 51. At 23 your whole life is still before you; the effects of testosterone can still be mostly reversed. HRT is going to do wonderful things for you my dear.
51 And you're just starting? I find that hard to believe. You look great, beautiful and passable.
When I said "too late" in the OP, I meant that I wanted my E to widen my male pelvic bone into a female pelvic bone, give me DD-cup sized breasts without the need for implants, and make me 5'7 or better yet 5'3 instead of being 6'0 but that's all wishful thinking. *sighs
Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on March 24, 2014, 11:44:34 AM
51 And you're just starting? I find that hard to believe. You look great, beautiful and passable.
When I said "too late" in the OP, I meant that I wanted my E to widen my male pelvic bone into a female pelvic bone, give me DD-cup sized breasts without the need for implants, and make me 5'7 or better yet 5'3 instead of being 6'0 but that's all wishful thinking. *sighs
No guarantee any of that would happen any way, regardless of when you started.
Just do it! That's my recommendation. If you feel that being a woman is what you want, leap at the chance. With a modest amount of time and some money, and a lot of personal effort, you can be that person. 20 years ago we didn't have half the surgical techniques that exist now. If all of that had existed back then I would have been 20 years into womanhood.
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on March 24, 2014, 02:53:08 AM
Totally agree. For a lot of us, it's less a question of pitch than a question of music. And listening!
What I'm doing is listening to women newsreaders or presenters on the radio (BBC radio 4 is great for this. TV is also good!) and repeating their intonation. It's also really really useful to record yourself and listen to how you would normally deal with intonation, and then try the newsreader's version. Sounds a bit freaky at first...
What I find difficult is that with people I know, I tend to drop into my standard male range - it's not so easy to unlearn that.
xxx
J
Singing was a great help for me as far as my voice is concerned. Listening to other women helped too. But I just listened to family members, friends, etc. There was a slight bit of time when I would listen to various actresses,but listening to people that I knew was a greater help.
Plus, practice, practice and more practice.
While it is kind of old, it could still be very well worth it to transition at that age.
Quote from: piglet smith on March 24, 2014, 05:10:25 PM
While it is kind of old, it could still be very well worth it to transition at that age.
:D Seriously?
"Kind of old"
Really?
Quote from: Laura Squirrel on March 24, 2014, 05:35:57 PM
:D Seriously?
"Kind of old"
Really?
Hey, I'm just trying to be helpful without being too confrontational and contradictory to their own feelings and thoughts.
And really why doesn't your porcupine have quills?
Annaiyah,
I think you may be worrying for nothing. I'm not even sure how much the pelvic bone would change if you started in your teens. (I tried looking it up, but wasn't able to find a definitive answer) I don't know about breasts either. There's no guarantee your pelvis and breasts would be different or to what extent they'd be different if you started earlier. Even if it happened to someone else, everybody develops differently. Not every woman has what they call the 'gynecoid pelvis'. Here are some female pelvis shapes:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skepticalob.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2Fimage1.jpg&hash=1a003813828737b1e2e678d3df439e1a98f29f0c) Some women require C sections because of their pelvis. So yeah, no guarantee how feminine your pelvis would be even if you were cis.
Not mention that as has been mentioned up top, even if you'd come out to your folks as a kid, it may still have not been in your hands. Your folks may not have allowed it. Even so, blockers are prohibitively expensive to many families. Or there may have been other obstacles. So could be nothing to regret. It may not have helped.
I think you still have a chance for decent breast growth to not need implants. And hopefully decent fat redistribution on your hips and backside (as has been mentioned, that's a lot of the female hip look). 23 is very young to transition!
Give me a break. 18-20 is the age that most of the most beautiful trans women on the planet transitioned. And every single real-life trans girl I've met under the age of 35 has gotten fantastic results and were close to completely passable. (With the exception of their voices sometimes.) You're only a few years older than that. You're at a stage that most trans women WISH they could have transitioned at.
23 is a freaking spring chicken. You still have a young face ripe to have its youthful features feminized, in the prime of life for the rapid muscle and skin renewal that feminizes the body and gives you curves, probably have next to no hairline recession, and probably no serious family commitments or long-term work prospects to worry about transition destroying.
You are NOT too old. If I knew you in real life, being 23 would officially make you the 2nd youngest trans person I'd ever met. Most of my closest friends transitioned in their late 20s or early 30s, with a vast majority of the trans women at my local support group being middle-aged.
No, you are not going to get the wide pelvis that cis-women get at puberty. But what are you trying to get out of transition? If your goal is to live up to some ideal standard of beauty, then sorry, it's probably not going to happen. Like it or not, we never will live up to our cis-standard selves that would have been had we been able to go through the right puberty at the right time. (Granted, it's quite possible that you wouldn't have gotten that anyway, even if you did go through the "right" puberty. You never know. There's a reason why lots of women have body-image issues.) But if your goal is to be female, and to be completely socially accepted as female by everyone, then it's NEVER too late. And the success rate in that department is astronomical for those who transition in their 20s.
Quote from: piglet smith on March 24, 2014, 05:42:46 PM
Hey, I'm just trying to be helpful without being too confrontational and contradictory to their own feelings and thoughts.
And really why doesn't your porcupine have quills?
I just don't get that whole mentality of "unless I absolutely do this when I am super young, I'm screwed".
Sorry, I just don't buy that.
Sometimes, you need to shake things up so people will begin to think with a bit of common sense instead of following some blind type of thinking such as what I just mentioned. All that leads to is regret and wasted time lamenting what you did or didn't do. As others have said here, there have been plenty of people that transitioned much later and turned out fine.
Also, if someone has their "feelings hurt" over someone telling them something that is helpful but may not be exactly what they want to hear, then that person needs to develop a thicker skin.
Also, the one in the avatar is a squirrel and not a porcupine.
QuoteI just don't get that whole mentality of "unless I absolutely do this when I am super young, I'm screwed".
Sorry, I just don't buy that.
I so totally agree with you! Who gets to transition when they're in their early teens? Virtually nobody, even though that might change in some enlightened corners of the world. The need to become your target gender comes from within and the right time to do it is when
you decide that it's the right time. And in my opinion personality and attitude are probably more important than how your body looks or how many years you've been dragging it around.
Example: I am 45. That's suuuuuper old right? OK, I am/was a tiny 5'3" excuse of a boy. I'm not quite yet on HRT, haven't had any FFS except for a nose job. And I went to a party this weekend dressed andro but quite fem, and a woman I got talking with confessed that she initially didn't know what gender I was. I'm not especially pretty, nor do I have long thick hair. But I made up my mind to THINK WOMAN, DO WOMAN, BE WOMAN. That's it!
Quote from: Danniella on March 24, 2014, 05:39:46 AM
I'm 26, and while I have only really been transitioning for 4 months now, I often get the regretful feelings or thoughts of wishing I had transitioned earlier.
But I think almost every trans person has felt this at some time, it's only natural and comes with the territory.
See...I look at it like this...(armchair sociology/psychology incoming)
My Hair-brained Analysis of Where we go Wrong
If a woman grows up, and is not a perfect 10 looks wise, she will often feel down about it or have some self confidence issues. But nowadays, society increasingly tells her that "that's just the way you are","that's just the way you were born","Be proud of the natural you!".
So much of female culture nowadays is focused towards accepting the "real you" or the "natural you", cosmetic surgery is frowned upon and done in secret, airbrushing is a dirty word, even changing your name to be more appealing is looked at with condescension. And all along, the woman are told "Don't worry, it's not your fault you look the way you do, it's the world and the media that is broken, you are beautiful just the way you are." Acceptance of ones natural self is allot easier for in this mindset.
On the other hand, our problem is that we often have thoughts like "I would have looked better if I transitioned earlier" or "Oh god I really ->-bleeped-<-ed myself up looks wise by waiting so long". It's the aspect of the unknown, the unrealised potential, that hurts us and messes with our heads so much.
In this situation we feel like we have done something really bad to ourselves, we have ruined our bodies, or at least severely damage our prospects. Instead of being able to rely on the standard media messages of "it's just the way you are","It's not your fault","Be the natural you" we feel very personally responsible for the way we look, we hate the "natural you" and try to hide and or change it as much as possible, because we "know" it is our fault we look that way.
The difference in my opinion is blame.
We normally blame ourselves for the way we look on the outside, rather than most Cis women out there who blame nature or other outside forces for their downfalls.
My Coping Method
With this in mind, I have twisted this logic around in my head in an attempt to turn it into a positive force, rather than a negative one, by applying a degree of challenge to it! :D
The way I see it. If you can transition at a "late age" (whatever your opinion of that is) and look good, not even super model or movie star good, just run of the mill "Hey you look nice" good, that accomplishment is worth SO much more to a trans person than to a Cis woman.
We have so little we can rely on naturally to help look good. You have to literally fight clothing manufacturers, social constraints, lack of experience and a thousand other things, even your very genetics, every single day, just to look good, or at least passable.
In my eyes, if you can do that, hell, you can do anything :)
And in the future, every time you are looking at pictures or walking down a highstreet and see a Cis girl you look better than...well dayum, you have truly achieved something special.
Is it healthy? Probably not. Does is potentially breed an environment of negative reinforcement? Maybe...but In my opinion, our society as a whole is not designed to support trans feelings or struggles on a day to day basis, even standard self confidence building advice aimed towards women falls short of recognising the true problems we face...so we have to build our own logic or view the cultural norms in a unique way to live happily...
But that's just my way weird way of looking at it ;)
Very interesting take. I think you're right. Cis women still blame themselves, but it's a different kind of blame. And most of the self blame is focused on the area everyone thinks she can easily change - weight.
If she has small breasts or bum, she may feel bad about it, but there's nothing she can point to to say it's her fault. Nature just didn't smile on her. So she may hate herself for her body, but not with that same terrible regret thing of having irrecoverably 'ruined her looks'. Even if she blames herself for not being skinny enough, there's still the hope she can 'fix it'.
Can you imagine if cis women (who already pretty universally hate their bodies) were dealing with something similar - the thought that if they had done X (which usually they didn't even know was possible or necessary at 11), they'd be a supermodel. But they didn't, so now they're stuck. Mental hospitals would be full to capacity.
I feel terrible about little things like not starting anti-aging cream sooner, so I really can't imagine the kind of horror of fearing you messed up your whole body.
I know there's probably no help for it, but the burden of self diagnosis and 'doing something about it at the right time' puts a terrible strain on us. Nearly everyone feels bad they didn't transition out of the womb. We just have to stop blaming ourselves and recognize we did the only thing we could do at the time.
Quote from: FA on March 24, 2014, 06:38:13 PM
I know there's probably no help for it, but the burden of self diagnosis and 'doing something about it at the right time' puts a terrible strain on us. Nearly everyone feels bad they didn't transition out of the womb. We just have to stop blaming ourselves and recognize we did the only thing we could do at the time.
I concur whole heartedly.
In addition, I would like to take this opportunity to speak to the community as a whole, because topics like this always seem to cause arguments and upset, when I think they really don't need to...
It's worth acknowledging that despite what people say or do, I'm certain that every trans person has these doubts and regrets about transitioning, to one degree or another. But it's important that whenever you enter a discussion with other trans people on this subject, you need to try and recognise that different people rationalise and cope with this in different ways.
Common Examples:
- "I transitioned when I was ready, everything I get past this point is a bonus, because it's better than continuing to suffer under the effects of testosterone (or oestrogen if FtM)"
- "I hate that I didn't transition when I was (X) years old, if you don't transition before (X) you will never look like a natural woman, I just have to make the best of what I have"
- "It doesn't matter when you transition, you never know what you would have looked like anyway, and beauty is subjective"
- And countless other variations...
All of these sentiments contain perfectly sound logic, and work as fine coping mechanisms individually, but the problem I often see online etc, that causes so much upset, is that this subject is one of THE most personal aspects of transitioning. And when we meet discuss it, the fireworks always fly.
There is no guidebook to gender dysphoria. Each person must come to their own conclusions and form their own viewpoints on themselves, their transition, and the world around them, often very quickly, and during times of extreme physical and emotional trauma.
As a result, whenever a debate strikes up over transitioning age or a similar topic, the claws will inevitably come out, no matter how nice the community. This is simply because the more personal the coping methods or world view, the more passionate or aggressively somebody will argue it...after all, it's got them this far, and what would they do without it?
I reckon, whenever things start to get heated on this oft discussed topic, we need to take a step back from it, and realise that we are all going through the same struggles, we all have the regret and self doubt inherent with our condition, it's just how we express it to others, or deal with it ourselves that separates us.
...
Wow Danniella...that was tldr...I need to lighten the mood... LOOK A KITTY!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.desibucket.com%2Fdb2%2F01%2F26039%2F26039.jpg&hash=34c2bd7de6ee6098aadeaaa823ff5ab72ad94cf8)
Quote from: Carrie Liz on March 24, 2014, 05:48:10 PM
Give me a break. 18-20 is the age that most of the most beautiful trans women on the planet transitioned. And every single real-life trans girl I've met under the age of 35 has gotten fantastic results and were close to completely passable. (With the exception of their voices sometimes.) You're only a few years older than that. You're at a stage that most trans women WISH they could have transitioned at.
23 is a freaking spring chicken. You still have a young face ripe to have its youthful features feminized, in the prime of life for the rapid muscle and skin renewal that feminizes the body and gives you curves, probably have next to no hairline recession, and probably no serious family commitments or long-term work prospects to worry about transition destroying.
You are NOT too old. If I knew you in real life, being 23 would officially make you the 2nd youngest trans person I'd ever met. Most of my closest friends transitioned in their late 20s or early 30s, with a vast majority of the trans women at my local support group being middle-aged.
No, you are not going to get the wide pelvis that cis-women get at puberty. But what are you trying to get out of transition? If your goal is to live up to some ideal standard of beauty, then sorry, it's probably not going to happen. Like it or not, we never will live up to our cis-standard selves that would have been had we been able to go through the right puberty at the right time. (Granted, it's quite possible that you wouldn't have gotten that anyway, even if you did go through the "right" puberty. You never know. There's a reason why lots of women have body-image issues.) But if your goal is to be female, and to be completely socially accepted as female by everyone, then it's NEVER too late. And the success rate in that department is astronomical for those who transition in their 20s.
It is very comforting to hear you say that.
I don't want people to worry. I'm going to transition one way or another no matter what age I am at. I hope this thread doesn't discourage people in their thirties - sixties from transition if they really want to. I'm just glad that I will be starting now rather than later for the reason that I've spent 23 years in this prison that is my male body and I've let the fear of lack of desired results, religious beliefs (though I am still a little afraid to get my penis removed because of fear I will go to Hell), potential health risks, high costs, etc. deter me long enough!
I guess it's as everyone keeps saying, if transition really is something you feel like you want/have to do then to Hell with how old you are.
Okay, sure, as all of you are trying to get through to me, it probably would not have made much of a difference if I started E pre-puberty or not when it comes to the hip, pelvis, breast department but there is the fact that starting E pre-puberty does prevent the Adam's Apple from dropping and turning into a deep man voice and will instead make a female voice. Therefore, I wouldn't have to go through the trouble as I am now to work on my female voice.
FA:
I'm sure every woman is different when it comes to the hip/pelvis department. I'm not as worried about it now as I used to be but I'm just tired of looking down at my waist and seeing that masculine V-shaped pelvic bone of mine. Ugh. :(
But as long as my E distributes fat in my backside and covers that part up, I will be fine.
Quote from: Danniella on March 25, 2014, 04:47:24 AM
Quote from: FA on March 24, 2014, 06:38:13 PM
I know there's probably no help for it, but the burden of self diagnosis and 'doing something about it at the right time' puts a terrible strain on us. Nearly everyone feels bad they didn't transition out of the womb. We just have to stop blaming ourselves and recognize we did the only thing we could do at the time.
I concur whole heartedly.
In addition, I would like to take this opportunity to speak to the community as a whole, because topics like this always seem to cause arguments and upset, when I think they really don't need to...
It's worth acknowledging that despite what people say or do, I'm certain that every trans person has these doubts and regrets about transitioning, to one degree or another. But it's important that whenever you enter a discussion with other trans people on this subject, you need to try and recognise that different people rationalise and cope with this in different ways.
Common Examples:
- "I transitioned when I was ready, everything I get past this point is a bonus, because it's better than continuing to suffer under the effects of testosterone (or oestrogen if FtM)"
- "I hate that I didn't transition when I was (X) years old, if you don't transition before (X) you will never look like a natural woman, I just have to make the best of what I have"
- "It doesn't matter when you transition, you never know what you would have looked like anyway, and beauty is subjective"
- And countless other variations...
All of these sentiments contain perfectly sound logic, and work as fine coping mechanisms individually, but the problem I often see online etc, that causes so much upset, is that this subject is one of THE most personal aspects of transitioning. And when we meet discuss it, the fireworks always fly.
There is no guidebook to gender dysphoria. Each person must come to their own conclusions and form their own viewpoints on themselves, their transition, and the world around them, often very quickly, and during times of extreme physical and emotional trauma.
As a result, whenever a debate strikes up over transitioning age or a similar topic, the claws will inevitably come out, no matter how nice the community. This is simply because the more personal the coping methods or world view, the more passionate or aggressively somebody will argue it...after all, it's got them this far, and what would they do without it?
I reckon, whenever things start to get heated on this oft discussed topic, we need to take a step back from it, and realise that we are all going through the same struggles, we all have the regret and self doubt inherent with our condition, it's just how we express it to others, or deal with it ourselves that separates us.
...
Wow Danniella...that was tldr...I need to lighten the mood... LOOK A KITTY!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.desibucket.com%2Fdb2%2F01%2F26039%2F26039.jpg&hash=34c2bd7de6ee6098aadeaaa823ff5ab72ad94cf8)
Oh, I wasn't trying to knock your or anyone else's coping method or anything. Or how anyone frames their experience. I was just saying the self diagnostic nature of this (along with implications of the age at transition meaning something as far as how 'trans' someone is) creates a lot of regret and self blame in the community. I'm actually glad I didn't transition earlier (though being ftm, that may be a little easier for me).
Quote from: FA on March 25, 2014, 09:32:29 AM
Oh, I wasn't trying to knock your or anyone else's coping method or anything. Or how anyone frames their experience. I was just saying the self diagnostic nature of this (along with implications of the age at transition meaning something as far as how 'trans' someone is) creates a lot of regret and self blame in the community. I'm actually glad I didn't transition earlier (though being ftm, that may be a little easier for me).
Heya, no worries, I didn't think you were trying to knock me or anything, like I said, I agree with you wholeheartedly RE: "Transitioning Age" :D
The rest of my post was just me separately throwing down my theory as to why I think the subject causes so much division and arguments etc, it wasn't directed at you or anybody in specific <3
Transition is a hard and sometimes exhausting journey.The physical aspects are only one piece of the puzzle we put together to fully live as our most genuine selves. For children and teens, even in the rare cases where there is full family support and full medical support, the hardest parts of transition, and post transition life as well, are not medical or physical.
Social and emotional challenges are the rule. Trans kids suffer, and sometimes die, from the extremes of bullying, ostracism, and negativity they get to deal with when they are most vulnerable. It is one thing to suffer through a miserable puberty and adolescence clinging tightly to the wish for a gender transition. It is another thing to achieve that transition and have no strength or resilience left to deal with the after life, which is not a bed of roses.
I transitioned when I was strong enough, healthy enough, and resilient enough to survive the stresses of transition and the stresses of life in my right gender as a trans person. Any age is the right age when you are ready, and not a day before.