I'm totally reeling. A friend who has helped me through my transition suddenly told me me, with no explanation, that has decided to let my friendship go.
I haven't ever met her in person, though we've talked on the phone many times. I connected with her on a transgender board (she is a female-born androgyne) and we've gotten to know each other well over long distance during the past two years.
It followed an email exchange that seemed in all ways benign and friendly. It's brief, so I'm including it here.
If you see ANYTHING in these emails that might have caused her to let our friendship go, please tell me.
Me, 1:31PM my time, 10:31AM her time:
QuoteOh, I forgot to give you another exciting piece of news: I have a date Saturday night!!! I've talked to her on the phone. She seems really nice and really smart (might be smarter than I am). I'll tell you how it goes.
I'm so happy for you on the car and the apartment. I bet having reliable transport and being in a better neighborhood will really prop your mood.
I hope you get a great price for your condo. I hate selling real estate - actually I hate just about everything about real estate - but if you have a good agent, that makes things a lot better.
I'll let you know how the date goes...
Her, 1:33PM my time, 10:33AM her time:
QuoteExciting about the date!! Do you know if she is open to dating all women? Has the topic come up?
Me, 1:38PM my time, 10:38AM her time:
QuoteNo. I haven't told her I'm trans. The way I've decided to deal with that is at least to let her meet me first. If she's had some experience with transgender women in her life (positive or negative) I don't want her forming an image of me based on preconceived notions.
The plan is to drop it into conversation casually and not make a big thing about it. Don't know if I'll do it on Saturday. Depends on how things go. I may let it go another date or two if it looks like things are going well.
It's one of the hardest issues faced by single trans people.
Her, 8:25PM my time, 5:25PM her time:
QuoteIn the past, you have asked me about lesbian dating and it is different than "straight" dating in some ways. Most lesbians discuss issues like "butch" or femme" that address gender expression before dating. Many post that they prefer one or the other and some will absolutely not date outside of their preference. (Butch women rarely date other butch women, for example.) If your prospective date has not expressed this kind of preference, it is likely that she is open to getting to know different kinds of women. So, I hope that is the case but i have to let you know that lesbians can be very particular about the type of women that they date: sporty, soft butch, stone butch, lipstick, femme, ultra-femme etc.
Her again, 8:31PM my time, 5:31PM her time:
QuoteYou know Suzi ... I miss when we could talk about these issues in a friendly way. I guess you know what you are doing ... good luck out there girl.
Her, one more time, 3:43AM my time, 12:43AM her time:
QuoteHey Suzi,
I wish you well but I have decided to let this friendship go.
Bye,
<Her name here>
I hadn't seen the last three messages until I read my email this morning.
Ideas??? Please help.
Sound to me like she may have a thing for you herself? But that is just based on my own past experiences. I didn't read anything insulting other than you going on about the prospective date.
The whole "I miss when we could talk about these things in a friendly way" must be some sort of clue, but for the life of me I can't figure out what you wrote that wouldn't seem friendly....
I can only think of two things, check your sent messages to be sure someone didn't hack your account and send out something hurtful the only other thing I could think is that maybe since you didn't get immediately back to a response that the comment meant something to the effect that you were ignoring her or something?
I find it very strange, and I don't think you really have all the information, like something is going on in her life maybe (or perhaps her email got hacked) or just something weird is going on that isn't apparent.
I don't know. I'm sorry this happened to you.
From the looks of it, it seems to be there are missing sections of conversation. It goes from friendly to saying she misses when you both could talk about things friendly. As if there was a defensive reply.
I fully believe you that these three were seen all at once, and thus you didn't reply to them at all. Which is the strange part. But for all appearances it looks like she's replying to things said.
That's the odd part. Does anyone have access to your email other than you? Maybe check the sent folder just in case? Otherwise, it is just weird and in-explainable.
Quote from: Jess42 on March 07, 2014, 09:32:30 AM
Sound to me like she may have a thing for you herself?
Don't think so. She just got married last year when CA gay marriage was okayed. I haven't gotten any of that sort of vibe.
Quote from: Hikari on March 07, 2014, 09:36:34 AM
I can only think of two things, check your sent messages to be sure someone didn't hack your account and send out something hurtful
Quote from: Colleen♡Callie on March 07, 2014, 09:38:10 AM
Does anyone have access to your email other than you? Maybe check the sent folder just in case?
Didn't think of that. But it doesn't look like the case. Gmail includes a "thread record" at the end of all email replies unless you delete it. I just went through the thread record after the final message and the only messages that were there were the ones I included above.
Thanks for the idea, though.
Ask for clarification as to the reason, and how you were being unfriendly. Might not get an answer but you have little to lose by trying.
I think she disagrees on some level with how your approaching the date. I guess she feels that by not telling the women in advance it really isn't all that fair to her. She also seems to be trying to prepare you for the fact that she may not be open to the idea of dating a trans woman.
Even though you clearly didn't mean for it to come across this way, but the line "It's one of the hardest issues faced by single trans people' can be perceived as being quite a strong and defensive statement. I mean was there even a need to write that? Re-reading the message, by placing it after how you plan to tell the woman, it feels like your attempting to shut that section of the conversation down, as if it's not open to discussion.
Wow. Well, my first guess is what Jess said - that she had a crush on you. But since she just got married that does seem unlikely.
My other guess is that she's not happy that you don't plan to disclose to your date immediately. I think with this she may be trying to hint around to that, though she doesn't specifically mention trans.
QuoteHer, 8:25PM my time, 5:25PM her time:
Quote
In the past, you have asked me about lesbian dating and it is different than "straight" dating in some ways. Most lesbians discuss issues like "butch" or femme" that address gender expression before dating. Many post that they prefer one or the other and some will absolutely not date outside of their preference. (Butch women rarely date other butch women, for example.) If your prospective date has not expressed this kind of preference, it is likely that she is open to getting to know different kinds of women. So, I hope that is the case but i have to let you know that lesbians can be very particular about the type of women that they date: sporty, soft butch, stone butch, lipstick, femme, ultra-femme etc.
Anyway, it's none of her business. You're doing nothing wrong. If I'm right and she's ready to end a friendship over it, her loss. And quite cowardly to not even talk about it.
I hope I'm wrong and this is just a misunderstanding somehow.
Edit: castle of glass just posted this idea ahead of me.
Quote from: castle of glass on March 07, 2014, 10:32:33 AM
Even though you clearly didn't mean for it to come across this way, but the line "It's one of the hardest issues faced by single trans people' can be perceived as being quite a strong and defensive statement. I mean was there even a need to write that? Re-reading the message, by placing it after how you plan to tell the woman, it feels like your attempting to shut that section of the conversation down, as if it's not open to discussion.
I didn't read it that way. But maybe she did.
At the same time though, not everything needs to be disclosed before or even on the first date. Yes it is something that needs to be disclosed, but first dates are more about just meeting and assessing the person to see if you want to continue. I don't see the reason to disclose before they have had a date first. If it just doesn't work, no harm, they go their separate ways and no need to worry about it. If they hit it off and wish to continue dating, then it'll be necessary to disclose, now that they know you and can decide if they want to continue or not.
I honestly can't see why it would be seen as wrong. Even in the scenario of butch and femme the friend gave. So you went on a date and the person was too butch or too femme for your tastes. So you had a date, and decided they weren't right for you, and left it there. Neither party has been wronged or harmed in this.
But Suzi is right that preconceptions are rampant and can stop us from even getting to show a person who we are so they can make a fair decision.
We can read and speculate all we want. I would just ask her what is up. If she is a true friend as you say she should offer up a explination.
I know some transgenders at some point just wish not to talk about things anymore.
Wish you luck on this and your date.
Isabell
The only thing that I saw that might make her break the friendship is either she has feelings for you & has ended the friendship to protect her feelings or that she disagrees with your intention of not revealing you're trans until you feel comfortable with the situation which is your right.
Hardly anyone reveals their innermost secrets on a first date & there's no reason you should have to just because you're trans, some topics can only be approached when you feel comfortable with a person & revealing you're trans on a first date could be dangerous with the wrong person, for the sake of safety it's best to find out how they feel about trans people first.
I agree with the poeple who've said you should ask for a reason, you've got nothing to lose
Given that you (Suzi) have corresponded for a couple of years, the last few messages may have a greater context.
Just ask her if you have done anything to offend her. If she does not reply, then let it go.
Some people can be unbelievably fickle, they turn on a dime. I lost an incredibly close friend a couple if years ago over something so utterly trivial it beggars belief.
It's possible this person has misinterpreted something you've said. It's possible, now that she is married she wants, or needs, to move away from certain connections. To paraphrase, "it's not you, it's (her)". Anyway, I'm sorry to hear this, maybe just ask her "sorry, did I say something wrong", if she responds that's great, if not you'll just have to let her go. :(
Quote...stone butch...
Never heard that before, had to check it out via Wikipedia!
why don't you ask her :|
but you were talking about being trans when it happened. do you talk about other things with her though? if I were her I'd get tired of that topic and always having to give like, cis girl advice or something. Cuz if she's androgyne she is probably sort of over gender?
I think that you don't really have enough clues from the context of those messages to tell whats going on Suzi. Perhaps send her a heartfelt note with a blanket apology for whatever you might have done, and ask her what the reason is for her being so abrupt. If she doesn't respond then so be it, but if she does you'll have your answer. It could be as simple as a misunderstanding about what was said and some unfortunate timing of messages from you (ie: a perception that you took too long to reply).
I go with what castle of glass said. It feels as if you made a pre-emptive strike with the "hardest" bit. This feels both offensive and defensive, and as if predicting her reply and giving an answer to the reply before she's even made it. But we can only guess. There's a big time gap between the penultimate and last message. In hindsight, you may have needed to get a reply in before she made that last message, to stop her playing out in her imagination whatever scenarios made her make her conclusions.
Quote from: Eva Marie on March 09, 2014, 03:09:29 AM
and some unfortunate timing of messages from you (ie: a perception that you took too long to reply).
That could be too. People can get a little self conscious when they don't get a reply right away through text. They may think you're still on and start worrying they offended you or something.
Thank you for all your suggestions. It really helps me understand the possibilities.
I decided not to ask her. Instead I sent her an apologetic message, telling her that I didn't have any idea why she did this but apologizing for doing whatever I did to make her feel she needed to do this and for being so insensitive that I didn't see it coming. I figure if she wants me to know she'll tell me.
I also told her I wouldn't be contacting her again, but I'd welcome it if she ever wanted to reconnect.
She hasn't responded, so I'm figuring it is OVER. Now I need to nurture myself and move on.
Feeling support from my friends here is really helping in that direction. Thank you all.