This story seems vaguely familiar from a country going under.
http://www.cbn.com/tv/3255110732001
Thank you for posting this. All the more reason for the US to get its debt under control.
I think North America and Europe are going to be fine; I don't think we are going to see an migration of all our wealthy and youthful to China or India so I am not worried.
CBN
Lol.
Oh, if I was making millions of euros a year, and the government decided to tax me 75% for two years (which is when the tax will expire) and will only affect 5% of my company's revenue (which the video I think skipped over that little detail) in order to help people who are far less fortunate than me, build bridges, repair roads, and fund schools, you are DAMNED RIGHT I would be okay with it. Oh no, some athletes complain about it? Not a damn given.
BTW, CBN is worse than FOX as far as unbiased reporting goes. They still think abortion causes breast cancer.
Quote from: Hikari on March 09, 2014, 01:39:48 PM
I think North America and Europe are going to be fine; I don't think we are going to see an migration of all our wealthy and youthful to China or India so I am not worried.
But you may see/are seeing investment capital headed that way.
What was it that Ross Perot said back in 1992? He could hear a "giant sucking sound" from jobs and money leaving the country. When will kill off our entrepreneurial class we will have devolved into a third-world hell hole.
There's a fine line between capital wealth and sacrificing basic human rights.
The French have a mandatory five weeks of paid vacation, a 35-hour work week, FREE college education, free child care, virtually free health care, and the 4th highest minimum-wage in the world.
America? No mandantory vacation time, the highest college costs in the entire world, and the highest healthcare costs in the entire world, plus none of those extra government services for family-planning and whatnot.
Complain about excess government spending all you want, it's certainly not actually being spent on helping the people in this country. It's disproportionately (66%) going to medicare and medicaid, defense, and social security. And these costs aren't skyrocketing because of government excess... they're skyrocketing because our country's biggest employers are all cutting out health insurance, pensions, and a livable wage, for the sake of profits. We didn't have this problem back when decent-paying full-time jobs with benefits weren't such a rarity. People didn't have to depend on food stamps, medicaid, and social security back then.
Again, I know economic prosperity is important, but there comes a time where a quest for profits above all else robs people of a livable wage for the sake of keeping profits going up. And I believe America has crossed that line. Economic inequality between the top 10% and the bottom 90% at this point is now officially at the highest levels it's ever been... even higher than during the Great Depression.
(https://www.wsws.org/asset/ca9fa416-9ec5-4cd3-b800-5e207ce7525L/US+Share+of+Income%2C+1917-2012.png?rendition=image480)
I'm not saying that we should go the France route... clearly they've gone too far in the other direction. But we're getting to the point where we're losing the middle class because decent-paying jobs and benefits are completely being eliminated for the sake of corporate profits. There's got to be a reasonable middle ground somewhere, where there's still incentive to start businesses and build wealth, but this business doesn't come at the expense of workers' basic human right to a livable wage.
Right and I'm sure that the French people they were interviewing were just lying through their teeth! I am surprised at how abysmally closed minded some are to facts being presented by indigenous French citizens. How is it that some people think that have the corner on the truth without considering the testimony of those who are living there and dealing with out of control hyperinflation? Why not move there if it's so much better than what you have here?
^And what about the testimonies of all of the people that OUR system is failing? All of the people who had their skilled labor positions eliminated, their benefits slashed, who had to give up decent-paying jobs to take part-time minimum-wage jobs at places like Walmart just to stay employed, and are now being driven into poverty? All of the college graduates who are $50,000 in debt due to education costs and yet still can't find a job?
It's a different complaint, admittedly. In France, people are having issues with entitlement, excessive government programs, and therefore no incentive to become wealthy. Here, we have the opposite problem.
Again, surely there's a good middle ground somewhere? Where the government makes sure that working people can at least afford the basic human needs of shelter, food, health, and a family, but economic incentive and ambition are still rewarded?
I'm not saying France is better. Their system is also unhealthy. I just believe that we're so far in the other direction that it's not healthy either.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on March 09, 2014, 04:01:07 PM
I'm not saying France is better. I'm just saying that I believe we're so far in the other direction that it's not healthy either.
I couldn't agree with you more and it is a travesty, because once big business started shipping all the middle income level manufacturing jobs overseas, President Clinton and his predominantly Republican congress waived the full speed ahead flag by joining hands across the aisle signing on to the Nafta and Pacific Rim agreements at warp speed which in retrospect was a huge mistake. Between that and the strangle hold the banking cabal known as "The Fed" has on us, we will be soon experiencing hyperinflation and what goes on in European countries is certainly a reflection of what we can expect will happen here.
Amerika is upon us.
QuoteComplain about excess government spending all you want, it's certainly not actually being spent on helping the people in this country.
Excessive government spending in the form of deficit spending is harming everyone, especially future generations who are having this burden placed on them with no say in the matter.
Balanced Budget and Congressional Term Limits amendments NOW!
According to Bloomberg, "20 countries with the highest proportion of millionaires"
1. Singapore
2. Switzerland (1)
3. Qatar
4. Hong Kong
5. Kuwait
6. United Arab Emirates
7. United States (2)
8. Taiwan (3)
9. Israel (4)
10. Belgium (5)
11. Japan (6)
12. Bahrain
13. Ireland (7)
14. Netherlands (8.)
15. United Kingdom (9)
16. Oman
17. Saudi Arabia
18. Denmark (10)
19. Australia (11)
20. Canada (12)
If you remove the two city-states, and the Arab sheikdoms in which the oil wealth is distributed among the extended royal families, you get the listing shown in parentheses.
Quote from: Jamie D on March 09, 2014, 11:08:45 PM
Balanced Budget and Congressional Term Limits amendments NOW!
Absolutely... :)
It is a warning. The French has always snubbed those who innovate in their own country. They were called "elitists" in the French schools if they get high scores regularly. There has always been a brain drain there. "ObamaCare" here in the US is one symptom of the problem here. With ObamaCare, some medical treatments are no longer available because the insurance companies said so. Some are outright banned or that treatment is not covered at all, it is fully out-of-pocket.
Out-sourcing and added responsibilities to current employees due to no new hires if a worker retires or gets fired with no pay raise does cause people to get disillusioned about their job. Getting a degree does not help much anymore. I see too many kids out there doing jobs that is not their degree description and these same kids are in debt in their student loans. Student loan defaults are not forgivable if you file for bankruptcy. It is the modern business model that all aspects of a business should make a profit. When I worked for a large consumer electronics company in their service department in 1981, the service department was not making any money, but we were treated better and got paid more than the salespeople. It was the slogan "We service what we sell" that brought customers in the store to buy something and something more later if the servicing of a defective product was satisfactory, even if it was out-of-warranty. Most electronic items today are made in such a way that they are not serviceable when these fail.
The salespeople in my old company today are encouraged to approach the customer who walks in buy a certain item, that they are instructed to goad the customer to buy other things additional. That company is closing 1100 stores because of poor sales and the customers are not coming in because of the high pressure salesmanship. People cannot afford anything they do not want these days. They go elsewhere.
Joelene
Quote from: Joelene9 on March 09, 2014, 11:48:55 PM
With ObamaCare, some medical treatments are no longer available because the insurance companies said so. Some are outright banned or that treatment is not covered at all, it is fully out-of-pocket.
What treatments are no longer available/banned?
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 10, 2014, 06:03:42 AM
What treatments are no longer available/banned?
We've seen for some time now, some of the best hospitals and doctors have been rejecting Obamacare for a number of reasons. On that basis alone I would conclude at least some services and treatments won't be available for some under Obamacare. I would also conclude the quality of service and treatments will be lower for many under Obamacare.
Everyone should know by now however that Obamacare was designed to fail, but it can't fail before it performs its designed duty... put private health insurance providers out of business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LhEX3rHssJI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LhEX3rHssJI)
Quote from: Nikko on March 10, 2014, 08:02:40 AM
We've seen for some time now, some of the best hospitals and doctors have been rejecting Obamacare for a number of reasons. On that basis alone I would conclude at least some services and treatments won't be available for some under Obamacare. I would also conclude the quality of service and treatments will be lower for many under Obamacare.
Everyone should know by now however that Obamacare was designed to fail, but it can't fail before it performs its designed duty... put private health insurance providers out of business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LhEX3rHssJI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LhEX3rHssJI)
Hmm. How exactly does it hurt to have private health insurance companies get millions of new customers? Why exactly? Is it because they can't up and cancel your coverage if you get sick? I'm so sorry that they have to actually provide healthcare now.
And how are hospitals rejecting the aca? Are bcbs and coventry no longer accepted at major hospitals?
I would take any "news" story from The Christian Broadcasting Network with a large grain of salt. Just sayin'.
Quote from: HelenW on March 10, 2014, 09:51:32 AM
I would take any "news" story from The Christian Broadcasting Network with a large grain of salt. Just sayin'.
Can you identify any of the content as being incorrect?
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 10, 2014, 09:22:45 AM
Hmm. How exactly does it hurt to have private health insurance companies get millions of new customers? Why exactly? Is it because they can't up and cancel your coverage if you get sick? I'm so sorry that they have to actually provide healthcare now.
And how are hospitals rejecting the aca? Are bcbs and coventry no longer accepted at major hospitals?
Insurance companies don't provide healthcare, they provide insurance. Insurance covers exposure which hasn't occurred yet. You use to pay your expected costs (pre Obamacare), which once you've had an sickness and it's ongoing, the cost of the policy essentially becomes the cost of your future medical costs during the term, which is obviously for most people unaffordable. Actually, it's no longer insurance in these cases, the insurance company essentially becomes an administrator of your payments. Any insurance company who's policy is to write these customers will go bankrupt. We can't blame the insurance companies for avoiding bankruptcy.
What's needed is an assigned risk pool. These have been used for home and auto insurance for years. People who can't afford insurance buy from an assigned risk pool at a discounted rate, and either these insureds are assigned randomly to all insurers based on their premium volume or the losses and premiums are assigned proportionally to all insurers. The assigned risk pool is the most effective means to deal with this problem which arises when insurance becomes unaffordable.
What obamacare has done is left these people in the primary markets. Companies will begin to find ways to not underwrite people whose premium does not cover their expected costs, that's why you don't leave them in the primary marketplace.
My main point is, insurance companies shouldn't be demonized for basic rational behavior. There are many solutions to the private sector health insurance problems. It's my contention there are many in government that don't want to implement these simple fixes for political reasons. Namely they want to leave the system broken so as to make single-payer a reality. But that leads to very expensive costs, long waiting lines, and yes rationing (aka, death panels).
Besides the inefficiencies, there's a much greater problem most people don't consider. There's no recourse for patients under single-payer. Under private based insurance, you have remedies via the courts when you have a conflict with your insurance carrier. You can sue them if you have a case or believe a more expensive treatment is needed, etc. It happens obviously, no one should claim they're all angels. But you can't sue the government. There's no recourse if the bureaucrat on the other end of the phone call denies you coverage. End of story, the death panel has the final say.
I have a catastrophic insurance policy, which means I basically pay for all routine doctor visits and drugs. My relationship with my doctor has improved dramatically now that I pay. They explain options to me rather than just sending me to some place for a test because some third party is paying for it. It's a huge difference in quality and understanding of my medical care.
Quote from: HelenW on March 10, 2014, 09:51:32 AM
I would take any "news" story from The Christian Broadcasting Network with a large grain of salt. Just sayin'.
I prefer taking my CBN news with some bread and wine. ;)
I'm sure their 'bias' leans towards religious values, but for the most part, their stories seem pretty accurate.
Quote from: Nikko on March 10, 2014, 02:53:41 PM
Insurance companies don't provide healthcare, they provide insurance. Insurance covers exposure which hasn't occurred yet. You use to pay your expected costs (pre Obamacare), which once you've had an sickness and it's ongoing, the cost of the policy essentially becomes the cost of your future medical costs during the term, which is obviously for most people unaffordable. Actually, it's no longer insurance in these cases, the insurance company essentially becomes an administrator of your payments. Any insurance company who's policy is to write these customers will go bankrupt. We can't blame the insurance companies for avoiding bankruptcy.
What's needed is an assigned risk pool. These have been used for home and auto insurance for years. People who can't afford insurance buy from an assigned risk pool at a discounted rate, and either these insureds are assigned randomly to all insurers based on their premium volume or the losses and premiums are assigned proportionally to all insurers. The assigned risk pool is the most effective means to deal with this problem which arises when insurance becomes unaffordable.
What obamacare has done is left these people in the primary markets. Companies will begin to find ways to not underwrite people whose premium does not cover their expected costs, that's why you don't leave them in the primary marketplace.
My main point is, insurance companies shouldn't be demonized for basic rational behavior. There are many solutions to the private sector health insurance problems. It's my contention there are many in government that don't want to implement these simple fixes for political reasons. Namely they want to leave the system broken so as to make single-payer a reality. But that leads to very expensive costs, long waiting lines, and yes rationing (aka, death panels).
Besides the inefficiencies, there's a much greater problem most people don't consider. There's no recourse for patients under single-payer. Under private based insurance, you have remedies via the courts when you have a conflict with your insurance carrier. You can sue them if you have a case or believe a more expensive treatment is needed, etc. It happens obviously, no one should claim they're all angels. But you can't sue the government. There's no recourse if the bureaucrat on the other end of the phone call denies you coverage. End of story, the death panel has the final say.
I have a catastrophic insurance policy, which means I basically pay for all routine doctor visits and drugs. My relationship with my doctor has improved dramatically now that I pay. They explain options to me rather than just sending me to some place for a test because some third party is paying for it. It's a huge difference in quality and understanding of my medical care.
I think we have a stark difference on our opinion of what healthcare is.
According to what you've written, it looks like you believe healthcare is a commodity to be bought and sold. I, on the other hand, believe healthcare for all citizens is a fundamental human right. A human right that every other civilized country has seemed to figure out. But not here. 'Murica.
Quote from: Nikko on March 10, 2014, 09:00:41 PM
I prefer taking my CBN news with some bread and wine. ;)
I'm sure their 'bias' leans towards religious values, but for the most part, their stories seem pretty accurate.
Pretty accurate? Yeah, denying climate change, denying evolution, and asserting that abortion causes breast cancer are all pretty accurate, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiCXeWA8e5g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkucszhRjnA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmjzYEsqwJw
please tell me you don't actually watch CBN
They are like FOX news, except they don't hide under the guise of 'fair and balanced' and simply throw their religion in your face.
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 11, 2014, 06:38:38 AM
I think we have a stark difference on our opinion of what healthcare is.
According to what you've written, it looks like you believe healthcare is a commodity to be bought and sold. I, on the other hand, believe healthcare for all citizens is a fundamental human right. A human right that every other civilized country has seemed to figure out. But not here. 'Murica.
Pretty accurate? Yeah, denying climate change, denying evolution, and asserting that abortion causes breast cancer are all pretty accurate, right?
please tell me you don't actually watch CBN
They are like FOX news, except they don't hide under the guise of 'fair and balanced' and simply throw their religion in your face.
I believe healthcare is one of the most important and personal services we utilize. For this reason, I support as much choice and freedom as possible. I don't believe anyone should be coerced to buy a particular product or service they don't want and in many cases, simply don't need. Putting people in violation of a law with serious consequences when they can't afford this high priced product is unconscionable. A very strong majority of the American people agree with my stance on Obamacare, I believe even more would if most news outlets would report accurately regarding it. BTW, it's Obama himself who has labeled Obamacare a product. Either way, I don't see it as a basic human right. For one, no one is obligated to choose healthcare as their profession. Doctors and nurses aren't born, these professions are choices like any other profession. I believe it's a basic obligation to help those in immediate need of medical assistance and we do. I certainly don't feel it's a good thing Obamacare is driving many current doctors out of the profession and will certainly affect those who choose becoming doctors in the future.
I don't know if any of those videos are true or false. I'm agnostic regarding religion, I don't know if life is by design or some random process. Climate change isn't settle science so I don't know about that either. I tend to believe there is almost likely at any time natural climate change cycles and there could be some man made climate change. Is it as dire as predicted? I doubt it and the models the past 15 years have certainly been way off. My proposed model of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia is about as accurate as most. Should we spend trillions on crony capitalism to defeat man made global warming? I don't believe so, I'd rather spend that money on more effective health insurance assistance for the most needy.
Regarding the civilized world, thanks to us they are civilized. Only the U.S. has kept the civilized world civilized. I don't see any European nations standing up to Russia, China, N. Korea, and Iran. Unfortunately, the U.S. isn't doing much any longer to keep the threats of these nations at bay, we're seeing the negative consequences of being weak.
I don't shut any news source out. I find listening to all sources most helpful. I recommend you watching Fox along with other sources. You could start a thread documenting all the 'falsehoods' you discover. ;)
Concerning the business of too much debt at the end of the money perhaps our feckless leaders might consider leading from the front rather than pushing from behind and become a shining example of patriotism rather than part of the problem. Imagine if you will how this representative form of government would react to the idea of term limits or a reduction in their own pay and benefits! Here are a few stats to ponder:
Warning this is obscene!
Salary of retired US Presidents... $180,000 for life.
Salary of House/Senate... $174,000 for life.
Salary of Speaker of the House ....$223,500 for life.
Salary of Majority/Minority Leader $193,400 for life.
Average Salary of a teacher... $40,065
Average Salary of Soldier deployed in Afghanistan .. $38,000
Think about this.
Nancy Pelosi will retire as a Congress Person at $174,000 Dollars a year for life.
She has already retired as speaker at $223,500 a year.
Plus she will receive an additional $193,400 a year as Minority Leader.
That's $803,700 Dollars a year for life including free medical which is not available to the taxpayers.
She is just one of the hundreds of Senators and Congress that float in and out every year!
Okay I got around to watching the video, cute and French, and irrelevent to the US. The only welfare state in the US is corporate welfare. The other entitlements are at anti-starvation levels, not luxury.
Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on March 11, 2014, 11:27:35 AM
Okay I got around to watching the video, cute and French, and irrelevent to the US. The only welfare state in the US is corporate welfare. The other entitlements are at anti-starvation levels, not luxury.
I used to think that the filthy raggamuffin foul mouths down on the next block and their reprobate parents weren't my problem and that their crap wouldn't affect me and my family, but reality proved otherwise as their problems overflowed into our lives and affected us. Thats just a microcosm of the entire world, we can clearly see the ravages the entitlement mentality has had on France, and we can concede that the entitlement mentality of the haves and well as the needs of the have nots who for no fault of their own are lacking are long past becoming a problem here as well and it will continue until the excesses of this government is reigned in and their credit card is taken away.
Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on March 11, 2014, 11:27:35 AM
Okay I got around to watching the video, cute and French, and irrelevent to the US. The only welfare state in the US is corporate welfare. The other entitlements are at anti-starvation levels, not luxury.
Yeah man!... ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rgSLYZBNNng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rgSLYZBNNng)
Excuse me. Sorry. Erm. Canada? Gosh, pardon, sorry eh?
Um. We're doing pretty good, we have health care, our universities and colleges are not free, but they are subsidized and fairly accessible... and the economy is holding up rather well, in spite of the fact that our dollar is worth about $0.90, minimum wage is $11/hr. Ok, so taxes are higher than in the US, but we do get stuff back for that.
Rofl!
"Get off my lawn!"
Are there people who take advantage of the system? Yes. Does that mean we need to eliminate the system or cut it so deeply that people who truly need it are missing out? No.
Do I like how that musician gets food stamps and he doesn't work? Yes. Contrary to the lyrics FOX so graciously soundbites, I would rather have him be fed than go out and 'steal and rob' (obvious satire) food from a citizen.
But truly, if I had my way, anyone who gets government assistance like SNAP and isn't employed should have to commit to X hours of community service a week unless they are disabled/a veteran/a senior. X would have to be determined
Quote from: EllieM on March 11, 2014, 02:16:30 PM
Excuse me. Sorry. Erm. Canada? Gosh, pardon, sorry eh?
Um. We're doing pretty good, we have health care, our universities and colleges are not free, but they are subsidized and fairly accessible... and the economy is holding up rather well, in spite of the fact that our dollar is worth about $0.90, minimum wage is $11/hr. Ok, so taxes are higher than in the US, but we do get stuff back for that.
Hi Ellie,
I live just north of Seattle and have noticed the mall parking lots are full of cars with Canadian License plates, people like to shop here because their dollar goes farther, same is true at the hospital and medical clinics, some would rather pay for services that they would be on a waiting list for in Canada. We did enjoy a nice visit to Vancouver recently, but it was more expensive then what we are used to here. I did have a friendly conversation with one Canadian who complained about being heavily taxed, and that is the crux of what the conversation is all about here, we don't want the government doling back to us and others what we have worked hard for here, we don't want them in our back pocket in the first place like they are there.
"The economists tell us that dollar-for-dollar there's more demand injected into the economy by unemployment insurance than almost anything you can name, food stamps being another one of those."
- Former Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, December 2012
Clearly then, by extrapolation, our economy will boom when everybody is unemployed and on welfare.
QuoteContrary to the lyrics FOX so graciously soundbites, I would rather have him be fed than go out and 'steal and rob' (obvious satire) food from a citizen.
Seems like a distinction without a difference to me. Either way, surfer dude belongs in orange on a chain gang somewhere chopping weeds along the highway or similar such thing. Way things are going, he may want to run for public office somewhere, he has the right experience.
And oh yeah, "get off my lawn!"
Quote from: Nikko on March 11, 2014, 03:43:12 PM
Seems like a distinction without a difference to me. Either way, surfer dude belongs in orange on a chain gang somewhere chopping weeds along the highway or similar such thing. Way things are going, he may want to run for public office somewhere, he has the right experience.
And oh yeah, "get off my lawn!"
Why don't you become a leader in the DPRK? That way, the pesky hungry poor people wouldn't take any of your money, and any that don't work you can just send to prison labor camps.
And FWIW, climate change is happening, humans are causing it, evolution is a
fact, and science works.
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 11, 2014, 08:59:39 PM
Why don't you become a leader in the DPRK? That way, the pesky hungry poor people wouldn't take any of your money, and any that don't work you can just send to prison labor camps.
And FWIW, climate change is happening, humans are causing it, evolution is a fact, and science works.
I am an Earth Scientist. Climate change is happening. Climate change has always happened, long before human were an insignificant blip on this planet. There is no such thing as a steady state climate.
The Earth reached 65-million year low in the last few hundred thousand years. The paleontological record shows that in the Paleocene and Eocene, the ambient temperature of the Earth was as much as 20F/12C warmer as it is today. Warm, moist, lush Earth. Wish it were warmer!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.columbia.edu%2F%7Emhs119%2FSensitivity%2BSL%2BCO2%2FFig4.gif&hash=43aa32bc7d7894db7f64bd26ab39f6b2e86eea30)
Take a gander at what real science tells us ...
Kia Ora,
::) Just out of interest...How many "Onerous Warnings" has the US had to date ? ::) :eusa_whistle:
Metta Anatta :)
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 11, 2014, 08:59:39 PM
Why don't you become a leader in the DPRK? That way, the pesky hungry poor people wouldn't take any of your money, and any that don't work you can just send to prison labor camps.
And FWIW, climate change is happening, humans are causing it, evolution is a fact, and science works.
Leader of the DPRK eh? Hmmm... it would be a downward career move, but only if I get to be one of those machismos standing in the sunroofs of one of those fancy cars, it would need to be my car, and four weeks paid vacation.... and free healthcare... then, sure why not. ::) (seriously though, your comment seemed a little harsh no? Surely we could all agree Surfer Dude shouldn't be eating lobster on our dime while flipping us the bird? ;))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mVt_eoSEx4o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mVt_eoSEx4o)
Quote from: Æðelþryð on March 11, 2014, 10:17:08 PM
I am an Earth Scientist. Climate change is happening. Climate change has always happened, long before human were an insignificant blip on this planet. There is no such thing as a steady state climate.
The Earth reached 65-million year low in the last few hundred thousand years. The paleontological record shows that in the Paleocene and Eocene, the ambient temperature of the Earth was as much as 20F/12C warmer as it is today. Warm, moist, lush Earth. Wish it were warmer!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.columbia.edu%2F%7Emhs119%2FSensitivity%2BSL%2BCO2%2FFig4.gif&hash=43aa32bc7d7894db7f64bd26ab39f6b2e86eea30)
Take a gander at what real science tells us ...
I almost wish I didn't mention climate change. I won't digress this thread more by telling you how wrong you are, and how funny it is that conservatives follow the party line as far as denying science. In short, I'm gonna go along with the what... 95% of climate scientists?
Quote from: Nikko on March 12, 2014, 12:55:23 AM
(seriously though, your comment seemed a little harsh no? Surely we could all agree Surfer Dude shouldn't be eating lobster on our dime while flipping us the bird? ;))
If he wants to spend his entire week's allotment on a couple lobster tails (it isn't evident that he bought that lobster himself with SNAP, btw, FOX just made it look like he did), why should it matter to you? Should poor people be restricted to gruel and grits?
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 12, 2014, 06:15:15 AM
I almost wish I didn't mention climate change. I won't digress this thread more by telling you how wrong you are, and how funny it is that conservatives follow the party line as far as denying science. In short, I'm gonna go along with the what... 95% of climate scientists?
Funny. I am a published author in peer-reviewed scientific journals, with a subspeciality in micropaleontology.
I am qualified by the Department of the Interior to offer "expert testimony" in court. It went with my grade-level and C.V.
Do you have a college degree?
Quote
If he wants to spend his entire week's allotment on a couple lobster tails (it isn't evident that he bought that lobster himself with SNAP, btw, FOX just made it look like he did), why should it matter to you? Should poor people be restricted to gruel and grits?
We might even conclude he caught the lobsters, but that would require work on his part, and well... uhm, anyway. ;)
What does it matter to me? He's hurting people by his actions. The national debt caused by wasted spending which goes way beyond fraud in the food stamp program, is threatening the prosperity of future generations, which aint me. So this isn't just some selfish emotion on my part, for one I'm not. Reducing this waste isn't going to lower my taxes, but it could end piling more debt on future Americans.
That's basically it, why it matters to me.
Quote from: Æðelþryð on March 12, 2014, 06:52:27 AM
Funny. I am a published author in peer-reviewed scientific journals, with a subspeciality in micropaleontology.
I am qualified by the Department of the Interior to offer "expert testimony" in court. It went with my grade-level and C.V.
Do you have a college degree?
I don't have a degree in any science.
You have a degree in paleontology? Okay. That's not climatology. There are aspects of climate, yes, but it's not climatology. I can show you a handful of scientists who deny human caused climate change, but the vast majority of them are not climatologists. Just like how i can show you scientists who don't accept biological evolution that aren't biologists. There are outliers of course, but I assume you get the point.
Quote from: Æðelþryð on March 12, 2014, 06:52:27 AM
Funny. I am a published author in peer-reviewed scientific journals, with a subspeciality in micropaleontology.
I am qualified by the Department of the Interior to offer "expert testimony" in court. It went with my grade-level and C.V.
Do you have a college degree?
It doesn't serve anyone to get into a pissing contest of how smart or qualified one is; you could be Steven Hawking and still get things wrong. Also, if you are saying that the actions of humans have no impact on climate change then you are in the minority of the scientific community no matter how right you think you are. I do however, consider it bad form regardless to go around asking people if they have a college degree with the implication that your paperwork makes you superior or somehow deprives others of their legitimacy of their opinions and positions.
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 11, 2014, 02:21:08 PM
Rofl!
"Get off my lawn!"
Are there people who take advantage of the system? Yes. Does that mean we need to eliminate the system or cut it so deeply that people who truly need it are missing out? No.
Do I like how that musician gets food stamps and he doesn't work? Yes. Contrary to the lyrics FOX so graciously soundbites, I would rather have him be fed than go out and 'steal and rob' (obvious satire) food from a citizen.
But truly, if I had my way, anyone who gets government assistance like SNAP and isn't employed should have to commit to X hours of community service a week unless they are disabled/a veteran/a senior. X would have to be determined
Another Entrepreneur Lost! Larmondo "Flair" Allen died Feb 7th of gunshot wounds
on Martin Luther King Blvd.
It seems that every couple of days New Orleans loses one of its treasured
ENTREPRENEURS.
He was 25 and had 3 sons and 6 daughters.
NINE welfare recipients collecting $950 each.......
That equals $8,550 a month!
Now add Food Stamps,
Free medical, Free school lunches, and on and on
Do the math...$102,000+ /year.
A HUNDRED GRAND doing nothing.
Now that, to me, is a real Entrepreneur.
(ALSO, BECAUSE OF THEIR FATHERS DEATH, ALL OF THE KIDS WILL COLLECT
SOCIAL SECURITY UNTIL THEY ARE 18)
EVEN BETTER...IF "FLAIR'S"
THIRTEEN BROTHERS & SISTERS
FOLLOWED HIS ENTREPRENEURIAL
STRATEGY--THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL
$1.3 MILLION PER YEAR
BUT WAIT...THERE'SMORE!
IF ALL THIRTEEN BROTHERS AND SISTERS CAN
DUPLICATE HIS FEAT OF 9 WELFARE STRATEGISTS
THAT BREEDS 117 NEW RECIPIENTS COLLECTING $100,000/YR!...OR AN ADDITIONAL
$11,700,000 PER YEAR...
And, THAT'S ONE FAMILY!
(And demands 100% the Taxes Paid by 1,000avg. Taxpayers)
And THAT is why this once great country of U.S.A. Is
BANKRUPT!
Auntie Shan, that's a problem with education, not with our welfare system. The education that conservatives are always excited to cut.
And again, I would rather have those kids get money each month instead of just letting them loose on the street. Do you not see how disregard for the poor leads to violent crime? Do you think those nine kids have bootstraps to pull up?
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 12, 2014, 01:28:36 PM
Auntie Shan, that's a problem with education, not with our welfare system. The education that conservatives are always excited to cut.
And again, I would rather have those kids get money each month instead of just letting them loose on the street. Do you not see how disregard for the poor leads to violent crime? Do you think those nine kids have bootstraps to pull up?
Yeah honey they do and they can, it's a matter of the will. There are stories all the time about young people with loser parents who have drug and alcohol problems who have bought into victim status as adults, the kids refuse to follow in their train and set their minds to dig their way out and into the sunlight of personal success. Some children of adversity have become a great example of a can-do mentality. Sure there are folks who have awful physical, mental and socialization problems that struggle and don't do well on their own and we do need to help them, but deadbeats like the one in the article don't deserve any help, because it becomes nothing more than an enabling program for types like him to continue doing nothing but sucking off the welfare teet. My gut feeling about that particular fellow was that he acquired his fatal gunshot wounds in the progress of some anti-social act.
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 12, 2014, 01:28:36 PM
Auntie Shan, that's a problem with education, not with our welfare system. The education that conservatives are always excited to cut.
And again, I would rather have those kids get money each month instead of just letting them loose on the street. Do you not see how disregard for the poor leads to violent crime? Do you think those nine kids have bootstraps to pull up?
There's nothing wrong with being poor and it doesn't cause crime. I grew up in a dirt poor family, that didn't turn us into violent thieves. Crime is a problem with lack of character, little empathy for others, and often an over-inflated sense of self which leads to an entitlement mentality.
Most everyone has great potential.
Quote from: Shantel on March 12, 2014, 11:31:15 AM
Another Entrepreneur Lost! Larmondo "Flair" Allen died Feb 7th of gunshot wounds
on Martin Luther King Blvd.
It seems that every couple of days New Orleans loses one of its treasured
ENTREPRENEURS.
He was 25 and had 3 sons and 6 daughters.
NINE welfare recipients collecting $950 each.......
That equals $8,550 a month!
Now add Food Stamps,
Free medical, Free school lunches, and on and on
Do the math...$102,000+ /year.
A HUNDRED GRAND doing nothing.
Now that, to me, is a real Entrepreneur.
(ALSO, BECAUSE OF THEIR FATHERS DEATH, ALL OF THE KIDS WILL COLLECT
SOCIAL SECURITY UNTIL THEY ARE 18)
EVEN BETTER...IF "FLAIR'S"
THIRTEEN BROTHERS & SISTERS
FOLLOWED HIS ENTREPRENEURIAL
STRATEGY--THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL
$1.3 MILLION PER YEAR
BUT WAIT...THERE'SMORE!
IF ALL THIRTEEN BROTHERS AND SISTERS CAN
DUPLICATE HIS FEAT OF 9 WELFARE STRATEGISTS
THAT BREEDS 117 NEW RECIPIENTS COLLECTING $100,000/YR!...OR AN ADDITIONAL
$11,700,000 PER YEAR...
And, THAT'S ONE FAMILY!
(And demands 100% the Taxes Paid by 1,000avg. Taxpayers)
And THAT is why this once great country of U.S.A. Is
BANKRUPT!
:icon_yikes:
Holy cow!
If you want more of something, throw money at it. I'd say this
problem with welfare is designed to do exactly what it's doing. Looks to me it's created nine future voters for a certain political party.
This makes Surfer Dude's lobster dinners look amateurish. I know, we need a government program to help people like Surfer Dude to screw the system more effectively. ::)
I'm afraid to know how much of this is really occurring.
Quote from: Nikko on March 12, 2014, 03:36:11 PM
There's nothing wrong with being poor and it doesn't cause crime. I grew up in a dirt poor family, that didn't turn us into violent thieves. Crime is a problem with lack of character, little empathy for others, and often an over-inflated sense of self which leads to an entitlement mentality.
Most everyone has great potential.
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 12, 2014, 01:28:36 PM
that's a problem with education, not with our welfare system. The education that conservatives are always excited to cut.
Many are excited to cut poor performing education and give parent's choice. For someone that so vehemently espouses spending a lot of other people's money on education, you simply appear to display little interest in knowledge or learning. As Ronald Reagan is famous for saying, 'it's not that the Left doesn't know anything, the problem is they know so much that isn't so." Not trying to be insulting, but I believe this applies in your case. It's obvious we'll continue to talk past one another, not my desire, but I'll excuse myself from this 'discussion' now. Well, it's been a joy. ;)
Quote from: Nikko on March 12, 2014, 07:53:01 PM
'it's not that the Left doesn't know anything, the problem is they know so much that isn't so'
I could change 'left' to 'right' and it would apply just fine. Conservatism reeks of fear and ignorance. Resistant to change due to a nearly unshakable ideology of 'not in my back yard.' No room or desire for progress. It's the ideology of the dark ages.
BTW, saying I have little interest in learning simply because I don't agree with your ideology is insulting, but I don't bruise easily, and I don't hold my sharp tongue. I am contrary to what you think I am. Being learned makes you accept things like climate change and other scientific facts about the world around us, and not reject them because of some black helicopter evil liberal conspiracy.
Edit:
Quote from: Nikko on March 11, 2014, 08:12:03 AM
Regarding the civilized world, thanks to us they are civilized.
btw, I am still shaking my head at this hilariously false statement. Tell me more about how
I have no interest in knowledge
Chill out chillun, we can all chat and make it fun and entertaining! Here's one for you to gnaw on:
The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever to 47 million people, these are the most recent figures available in 2013.
Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves".
I'm not sure I understand how my criticism of a television network founded by and run on the principles of Pat Robertson was understood by some as a kind of personal criticism of Christians or Christianity. That was certainly not my intention.
I have some major issues with some of the things Pat Robertson has said on his TV show, the 700 Club, and find that much of the editorial content and direction of the news service his network provides is geared toward right wing memes, including anti-TLBG messages promoted both by commission and omission in the stories they present. I have found the points of view that emanate from his network to be demeaning and prejudicial to myself, personally, as a lesbian, and globally in a clear anti-LGBT bias.
This is not a criticism of Christianity. I grew up in a Christian household and participated in everything from Sunday School, to Religious Instruction Classes to confirmation and church attendance until I was 16 years old. I did come to know a few, unfortunately too few, people who can be called true followers of Christ. That said, it's not the religion as a whole, or its followers, that I condemn. It's Pat Robertson's version of it I cannot agree with and his TV network reflects his dogma.
QuoteConservatism reeks of fear and ignorance. Resistant to change due to a nearly unshakable ideology of 'not in my back yard.' No room or desire for progress. It's the ideology of the dark ages.
BTW, saying I have little interest in learning simply because I don't agree with your ideology is insulting, but I don't bruise easily, and I don't hold my sharp tongue. I am contrary to what you think I am. Being learned makes you accept things like climate change and other scientific facts about the world around us, and not reject them because of some black helicopter evil liberal conspiracy.
Hideyoshi, would you do me a favor and look at your quote above, do you ever listen to yourself?
Speaking of insults, I gave you a sincere assessment I have of you because I think it could benefit if you allow it. I didn't do so based on our difference in beliefs, but rather the repeated negative tone of your posts. You state opinion as fact and refuse to hear otherwise. You've insulted me numerous times, you're dripping with ad hominem attacks that make any worthwhile discussion very difficult if not impossible.
It's my hope you consider this, no hard feelings.
Quote from: Nikko on March 13, 2014, 12:40:31 AM
you're dripping with ad hominem attacks that make any worthwhile discussion very difficult if not impossible.
ad hominem is when you attack someone instead of their argument as a basis for your argument.
For example, if I form an argument like this, it's ad hominem:
P1: You are an idiot
P2: All idiots are wrong about X
C1: Therefore, you are wrong about X
Note: This argument is
valid, but not
sound because it is
fallacious. There is no justification given as to why all idiots are wrong about X.
Another, more common example would be
P1: You are an idiot
P2: You are a moron
C1: Therefore, you are wrong
This argument is neither valid nor sound, and it is also fallacious. The conclusion does not follow from the premise(s).
Note: you can BE all 3 of those things, an idiot, a moron, and wrong, but forming an argument in such a way is fallacious (ad hominem is a fallacy).
If I just call you an idiot, but don't conclude that you are wrong merely because of that, it's NOT ad hominem.
I can attack your arguments on moral grounds, which isn't the most objective thing, but it's not ad hominem to label your views as ignorant, apathetic, near-sighted, selfish, etc.
Quote from: HelenW on March 12, 2014, 10:55:07 PM
I did come to know a few, unfortunately too few, people who can be called true followers of Christ. That said, it's not the religion as a whole, or its followers, that I condemn. It's Pat Robertson's version of it I cannot agree with and his TV network reflects his dogma.
Hi Helen!
Had you said Pat Robertson and the 700 Club right up front I would have understood where you were coming from right away, we're on the same page there sister!.
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 13, 2014, 06:55:05 AM
ad hominem is when you attack someone instead of their argument as a basis for your argument.
For example, if I form an argument like this, it's ad hominem:
P1: You are an idiot
P2: All idiots are wrong about X
C1: Therefore, you are wrong about X
Note: This argument is valid, but not sound because it is fallacious. There is no justification given as to why all idiots are wrong about X.
Another, more common example would be
P1: You are an idiot
P2: You are a moron
C1: Therefore, you are wrong
This argument is neither valid nor sound, and it is also fallacious. The conclusion does not follow from the premise(s).
Note: you can BE all 3 of those things, an idiot, a moron, and wrong, but forming an argument in such a way is fallacious (ad hominem is a fallacy).
If I just call you an idiot, but don't conclude that you are wrong merely because of that, it's NOT ad hominem.
I can attack your arguments on moral grounds, which isn't the most objective thing, but it's not ad hominem to label your views as ignorant, apathetic, near-sighted, selfish, etc.
I'll take that as you don't plan to consider it.
In the interest of knowledge and learning...
Definition of AD HOMINEM:
1. appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect; to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason
2. marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
Quote from: Nikko on March 13, 2014, 11:07:53 AM
I'll take that as you don't plan to consider it.
In the interest of knowledge and learning...
Definition of AD HOMINEM:
1. appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect; to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason
2. marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
Read what I typed explaining what ad hominem is. I tutored logic over the course of two years and didn't have to look up ad hominem to actually know what it was.
Because you don't agree with my views doesn't mean my reasoning isn't based in intellect (see definition 1)
If i call you an idiot -in place- of an argument (see definition 2) that's ad hominem.
Am i trying to say that I've never used a fallacy or I'm some pinnacle of logical prowess? No. I've probably been borderline on a couple posts because I don't believe it's necessary to adhere to strict argumentative guidelines when arguing informally on the internet. Plus, I definitely call out absurdity and falsehoods as such and do not censor myself.
All i can type right now I'm at work
Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 13, 2014, 12:00:46 PM
Read what I typed explaining what ad hominem is. I tutored logic over the course of two years and didn't have to look up ad hominem to actually know what it was.
Because you don't agree with my views doesn't mean my reasoning isn't based in intellect (see definition 1)
If i call you an idiot -in place- of an argument (see definition 2) that's ad hominem.
Am i trying to say that I've never used a fallacy or I'm some pinnacle of logical prowess? No. I've probably been borderline on a couple posts because I don't believe it's necessary to adhere to strict argumentative guidelines when arguing informally on the internet. Plus, I definitely call out absurdity and falsehoods as such and do not censor myself.
All i can type right now I'm at work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3wdHxyGcLoQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3wdHxyGcLoQ)
Edit: I'm curious why you changed your post, originally you had some very descriptive adjectives for the word 'idiot' above, as though it was a veiled insult towards me. Probably not a good thing to suggest in a post defending against ad hominem insults? I suspected you were doing this when I first read it, but didn't say anything. But the edit really has me curious. Okay, now I've officially beat this horse thread to death. Now I'm done. :D
I'll give you the last word. :)
I think you've taken things as far as they need to go.
Let's move on now.
Quote from: Shantel on March 11, 2014, 02:51:42 PM
Hi Ellie,
I live just north of Seattle and have noticed the mall parking lots are full of cars with Canadian License plates, people like to shop here because their dollar goes farther, same is true at the hospital and medical clinics, some would rather pay for services that they would be on a waiting list for in Canada. We did enjoy a nice visit to Vancouver recently, but it was more expensive then what we are used to here. I did have a friendly conversation with one Canadian who complained about being heavily taxed, and that is the crux of what the conversation is all about here, we don't want the government doling back to us and others what we have worked hard for here, we don't want them in our back pocket in the first place like they are there.
Well, you raise an interesting point, Shantel.
Let's cover the commodities first. For some reason, things are more expensive here, yes. A few years ago, I was in the market for a freezer. I noted that the model here in Southern Ontario (near Detroit) was 20% higher in cost than the same model in Detroit. I thought that was odd, given that the dollar was at par. "Shipping, maybe?" I mused... I check the price for the same item in Anchorage AK, guess what! Zaklee same like MoTown! Ok. Not shipping. After questioning the US office of the chain that sold this item and being told that it was shipping, I asked about Alaska and was dismissed. So. Things are more costly here because they can get away with it. There is a line item in our next federal budget that is supposed to deal with that.
Let's get to clinics. I can tell you that here in Ontario, the wait times are not so bad. There are some procedures which have higher wait times, for sure, but nothing life-threatening is compromised by waits. (times, not Tom). There are some things I would travel for and pay for, (eg FFS, Vocal Folds shortening) but my personal experience has not been negative here. Yes, I do have something to compare it with, we didn't have socialized medicine here when I was younger.
Vancouver expensive? Got that right! It's more expensive than Toronto, for sure! I don't think I could afford to buy a condo there, much less a house! It's the blind men and the elephant, you know? You were examining the trunk and declaring a elephant to be snake-like.
A Canadian complaining about taxes... it's a national sport here, like obsessing over the weather. I used to do that too until our current government got their (our) spending under better control. Too bad they can't fix the weather...
I understand that you don't want your government sucking you dry and digging a deeper hole. I get that. From "up here" what I see is excessive spending by Washington on things that don't need to cost so much and political favours driving that silliness. You know, the real reason for the controversy about the Enbridge pipeline is railroad money, not the ecology. There are some very wealthy people in the US who are orchestrating this, but they mean no specific harm, they just wish to accumulate more wealth and don't give a damn about who falls beneath Juggernaut. You have 10 times Canada's population there. You would think that the difference in economic scale would bring certain cost efficiencies in terms of infrastructure and services, but there is some kind of disconnect there. Believe me, Shantel, I am completely in favour of "pull your own weight", I have always managed to find work. I think there are a lot of different forces there generating the problem, the problem which is not A problem, but rather the symptom of a complex of problems. Part of it is multigenerational welfare families, people institutionalized by their own sloth and self-victimization. Part of it is unchecked greed and feelings of self-entitlement, as exemplified by the mortgage crisis of 2007. Ross Perot's "Giant sucking sound" admonition was like shutting the barn door after the horses had bolted. Where did the American textile industry go? Oh yeah, same place as the clothing industry, the electronics industry, the tool and die industry... it got Shanghai'd, literally.
Yes, other parts of the problem remain to be explored, let me finish with one more, the problem of government corruption. Now, I didn't just fall off the apple cart my dear, and I certainly don't think that it is possible to have government completely free of corruption and non-duplicitous politicians. Politics, by its very nature, is a nasty business. I am not going to point any fingers, and I must emphasize that this is not a partisan issue, it crosses party lines seamlessly, but I urge you if you have not already done so, to have a good look at the associates of your representatives. A good sense of humour will help you survive that adventure ;)
I hope you have not found any of this to be offensive, I'm just trying to point out that the issue is very complex, bigger than a breadbox.
Let me leave you with this: You have a fine country there, the US of A, even with its warts. Hang on to it. And by the way, I have to say, I truly adore your Second Amendment, preserve it carefully.
Prices in Canada are also inflated by the cost of logistics. As someone in that line of work, just imagine not only is your country incredibly less dense than the United States (it is like only having the population of California spread out in all 50 states), but is costs more to pay truckers in Canada, since the job is considered more difficult with Canada's climate. Not only that but the infrastructure simply isn't as developed because there isn't the population base to support it, meaning more trips down roads that will slow trucks down....
My point being the logistical issues are mostly private sector concerns (I am not sure how much the public sector in the form of diesel taxes, etc impact it since I don't have to worry about those costs even if I drive in Canada), and that only scratches the surface of one industry. It is a very complex situation that makes a modern economy.
Quote from: Shantel on March 12, 2014, 08:33:37 PM
Chill out chillun, we can all chat and make it fun and entertaining! Here's one for you to gnaw on:
The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever to 47 million people, these are the most recent figures available in 2013.
Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves".
That's just way too funny. Brings to mind Monty Python's argument sketch.
Quote from: Hikari on March 14, 2014, 12:47:36 PM
Prices in Canada are also inflated by the cost of logistics.
so how come my freezer costs less in Alaska? I'm two hours from Detroit in a Peterbilt...
Quote from: EllieM on March 14, 2014, 12:54:19 PM
so how come my freezer costs less in Alaska? I'm two hours from Detroit in a Peterbilt...
My guess would be because Alaska has shipping traffic via the water as well. The highway that leads up to Alaska isn't great at all, and in the winter isn't something I would wish on my worst enemies. I know a Bridgeport milling machine is much more expensive in Alaska than Virginia, so it isn't like everything there has continental US prices.
As to your proximity to Detroit, that would be meaningless unless the product in question was actually made in Detroit. More than likely, the product would come in from China in a port in California, be taken to a drop off point in Detroit, and drivers who ferry goods across the border would pick it up and either deliver it, or drop it in another lot for a Canadian driver to pick up. Even if it were made in say, MO and under NAFTA that driver takes it directly to it's destination in ON, he has to pick up something to bring back (or the costs would be astronomical) but it has to be a direct trip, he can't for example pick up in ON and drop off in BC to get product to bring back to WA. When you are doing international you can go in and deliver, pickup and return, the lack of point to point trips in that other country greatly reduces the efficiency at which you can operate.
Each layer of additional logistics, all waiting at the border, all time wasted out of route for sparser fuel stops, and all time wasted in looking for a trailer that is returning to the United States, makes it more expensive to do the logistics business in Canada, and since all products not made in the town they are consumed in have some built in logistics costs they has an upward pressure on all prices.
It was manufactured in Greenville, OH
Quote from: EllieM on March 14, 2014, 12:38:08 PM
I hope you have not found any of this to be offensive, I'm just trying to point out that the issue is very complex, bigger than a breadbox.
Let me leave you with this: You have a fine country there, the US of A, even with its warts. Hang on to it. And by the way, I have to say, I truly adore your Second Amendment, preserve it carefully.
Not the least bit offensive, excellent comments like being on the outside of a big aquarium looking in, the whole picture is seen much clearer. I appreciate your perspective!
thank you, Shan :)
http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2013/02/06/canadaus_price_gap_senate_report_due_today.html (http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2013/02/06/canadaus_price_gap_senate_report_due_today.html)
Thanks Nikko. That explains some of it, but still "A Toyota Rav4 made in Woodstock is cheaper in Hawaii than in Ontario, the report noted." That would be Woodstock ON, not Woodstock NB or Woodstock NY. I'll buy (if it's not more expensive here) that some of the differences are due to tariffs, but there are still questions.
They didn't explain this specifically, but I think the tariffs they're discussing is causing this too. This situation has to do with what the market will bear. The Chinese and European (etc.) cars sold to Hawaii and Ontario have much different tariffs, they're much higher in Ontario. It affects the price of the Woodstock Ontario products produced because the market will allow a higher price in Ontario than in Hawaii (the competing products are lower in Hawaii). People have been confused for a long time by this because it's not directly observable, it's the proverbial invisible hand of the private market at work.
Ahhh yes... It's all some kind of magic.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain... These are not the droids you were looking for. :D
The bottom line is pretty well encapsulated in this young lady's rant, it's really not just about the president, it's about how the government is not working and how people are feeling disenfranchised!
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/122228-sassy-gal-blowtorch-shows-everyone-exactly-shes-burning-obama-homeboy-t-shirt/
Burning the presidents image is just distasteful. I was no fan of President Bush, but if someone had an argument to why they should burn an effigy of him or the like, I would just stop listening immediately. That is just plain disrespectful.
"Americans are frustrated, quick let's blame someone!" Is about all I got from that. We are the ones that elect government, it doesn't work because we elected a bunch of ultra-conservatives who care more about ideology than getting things done, and then expected those some people to work with democrats and moderates to actually move this country forward. We are the ones who elect people, and we should be smart enough to know that if we elect people who have unreasonable views on compromise, we won't get anything. If people are looking for someone to blame they need only look in the mirror.
And, What is this about her and Obama's sanctions, exactly what does she want World War 3? Haven't we had enough war? In Any case, I bet if we got a NATO land war against Russia that debt everyone likes to whine about would get very much larger.
Quote from: Hikari on March 19, 2014, 02:27:41 AM
Burning the presidents image is just distasteful. I was no fan of President Bush, but if someone had an argument to why they should burn an effigy of him or the like, I would just stop listening immediately. That is just plain disrespectful.
"Americans are frustrated, quick let's blame someone!" Is about all I got from that. We are the ones that elect government, it doesn't work because we elected a bunch of ultra-conservatives who care more about ideology than getting things done, and then expected those some people to work with democrats and moderates to actually move this country forward. We are the ones who elect people, and we should be smart enough to know that if we elect people who have unreasonable views on compromise, we won't get anything. If people are looking for someone to blame they need only look in the mirror.
And yet we see Mexican illegals burning the US flag in Arizona and it's ok? Truth is we are stuck with a totally self aggrandizing feckless leadership throughout the Executive, judicial, and Legislative branches, there's plenty of blame to go around. Unfortunately once some breath of fresh air gets elected to congress they immediately join hands with the usual suspects and become part of the problem and the will of the people be damned because we are your elite representatives and know what's best for you!
Quote from: Hikari on March 19, 2014, 02:27:41 AM
And, What is this about her and Obama's sanctions, exactly what does she want World War 3? Haven't we had enough war? In Any case, I bet if we got a NATO land war against Russia that debt everyone likes to whine about would get very much larger.
It won't happen because everyone knows it would escalate quickly and the crows would be picking the burnt meat off of our carcasses.
Quote from: Shantel on March 19, 2014, 08:51:13 AM
Truth is we are stuck with a totally self aggrandizing feckless leadership throughout the Executive, judicial, and Legislative branches, there's plenty of blame to go around. Unfortunately once some breath of fresh air gets elected to congress they immediately join hands with the usual suspects and become part of the problem and the will of the people be damned because we are your elite representatives and know what's best for you!
That seems to be the case, regardless of which flag you are standing under. One of my friends refers to that elite mob as the LoA, the League of ->-bleeped-<-s. Kind of catchy, no? I'm betting on the internet to save us. It's rather democratizing, it's a conduit of information and soon, with the imposition of IPv6, it will become easier to evade the LoA's long reach. There will be no further need to take up residence in the Moscow airport.
Quote from: Shantel on March 19, 2014, 08:51:13 AM
And yet we see Mexican illegals burning the US flag in Arizona and it's ok? Truth is we are stuck with a totally self aggrandizing feckless leadership throughout the Executive, judicial, and Legislative branches, there's plenty of blame to go around. Unfortunately once some breath of fresh air gets elected to congress they immediately join hands with the usual suspects and become part of the problem and the will of the people be damned because we are your elite representatives and know what's best for you!
It won't happen because everyone knows it would escalate quickly and the crows would be picking the burnt meat off of our carcasses.
Of course it is disrespectful for people to burn the American flag, at no point did I say it was okay and it in no way justifies the woman in the link being disrespectful herself. Two wrongs do not make a right, some people get away with murder but it doesn't justify me killing anyone.
And that new blood doesn't join the old at all that is the problem, in the old congress lobbyists and pork projects could grease the wheels to make things work, it is precisely the newer politicans that are the problem. Bush and his friends at Haliburton might have been in the pockets of corporations and special interests but they could certainly govern better than those who would say no to everything, that isn't a way to govern anything.
And if war with Russia is so bad, which I believe it is, someone needs to send that memo to Mitt Romney and John McCain who have been beating those war drums something fierce in the media.
Quote from: Hikari on March 19, 2014, 01:21:55 PM
Of course it is disrespectful for people to burn the American flag, at no point did I say it was okay and it in no way justifies the woman in the link being disrespectful herself. Two wrongs do not make a right, some people get away with murder but it doesn't justify me killing anyone.
And that new blood doesn't join the old at all that is the problem, in the old congress lobbyists and pork projects could grease the wheels to make things work, it is precisely the newer politicans that are the problem. Bush and his friends at Haliburton might have been in the pockets of corporations and special interests but they could certainly govern better than those who would say no to everything, that isn't a way to govern anything.
And if war with Russia is so bad, which I believe it is, someone needs to send that memo to Mitt Romney and John McCain who have been beating those war drums something fierce in the media.
Yup, yup and yup! I don't like the Neo-Cons and the religious right that hijacked the country awhile back, also I don't know what Romney is thinking, neither he or his five sons have never served in the military and I think he's a bit delusional banging the drums, McCain ought to know better having had both shoulders dislocated at the Hanoi Hilton, he's probably senile.
The author makes it clear that Obama is not the problem, a cog in the machine but not THE problem.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=626431014085686
Government gone wild is clearly THE problem clarified!
http://www.staged.com/video?v=Klmb